Taking aim at Johnson, British PM hopefuls make Brexit case

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why? Do you think the morality or otherwise of our leaders is irrelevant? 

 

When I start listening to tweets coming from James O'Brien is the day I join the Labour Party. I can't remember you questioning the integrety of Alex Salmond, funny that.

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Nonsense.  The UK is a parliamentary democracy. The referendum was advisory, despite what the likes of Cameron said at the time. 3 years on, everything has changed in terms of understanding what Brexit means and demographically.  The only way out of this mess is for a General Election with parties making their Brexit policy clear.

"They (Brexiters) didn't know what they were voting for?" 

 

If true why does it not equally apply in t'other direction?

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Johnson who tells the nation he can sort out the EU by being tough in negotiations runs and hides from a TV debate.

 

Your contention that channel 4 is biased is an opinion without, in my opinion any basis.

That the EU negotiating team are biased is a fact.

 

Johnson hiding from alleged bias is not an argument you should make if you favour his candidacy.

I believe he will be attending the debate on the BBC tomorrow, book your seat early, fasten yourself in, you may be in for a rough ride.

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris didn't need to be there, the others are fighting for any scraps they can get.

I think he will better twitter from his living room. Or send a message in a bottle.

No unpleasant questions.

No danger that his lack of detailed knowledge becomes visible.

Great PM candidate.

The UK sinks like a stone in the water.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

When I start listening to tweets coming from James O'Brien is the day I join the Labour Party. I can't remember you questioning the integrety of Alex Salmond, funny that.

Alex Salmond's integrity was not in question when he was a paid politician. 

 

But your response does not answer my question. Do you think morals and integrity are not important features in our leaders? How low would a politician need to stoop before he became unpalatable in your eyes?

[malagateddy]

I think the only thing you'll hear from Brexiteers on here is the desire for parliament to do the democratic thing and carry out the wishes of the people ie the ones who won the referendum. You see, that's why democracy was installed in most countries in the world in the first place. You'll never get all the people to agree all the time, therefore a system called democracy was instituted, where everyone had a vote and whoever got the most votes was the winner. Of course, for this system to work, the losers must accept that they lost, which has been the case until recent times. Now, here and in the US, the remainers and the left no longer seem to want to accept this. This is a very dangerous situation because democracy only works providing the losing sides are willing to concede defeat. When they don't, like at present, it could lead to a complete breakdown of democracy. One thing I think is certain, if Brexit doesn't happen, I for one and I'm sure many others will lose complete faith in the British system of voting. A system, which until recently, has been a template for the rest of the world.

Imho..the UK remainers who still seem quite determined to stop Brexit one way or another are but fascists.They are doing their utmost to overturn a DEMOCRATIC decision taken by UK citizens..or rather the ones who could be bothered to vote.


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[evadgib]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

May didn't have any (????)

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I am not aware why BJ wasn't available and nor am I overly impressed that he's the front runner but I cannot blame him for not wanting to turn up for a pointless debate in a biased arena.

He is avoiding questioning and debate.

 

That is cowardice as far as I am concerned and makes him even more unfit for purpose. 

[vogie]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

I think he will better twitter from his living room. Or send a message in a bottle.

No unpleasant questions.

No danger that his lack of detailed knowledge becomes visible.

Great PM candidate.

The UK sinks like a stone in the water.

Whether he is or not a "great PM candidate" that is for history to judge, all we know is, he doesn't seem to have 'remainer appeal' and he is the only candicate to keep the Tories from sinking and keeping a Corbyn Government out.

But whilst all remainers are finding every little bit of mud to throw at him, he has got them worried.

[malagateddy]

Nobody is predicting anything, that is a reserve for remainers, all I am stating is probabilities, it is remainers saying that Brexit is not going to happen.
 
Tories failing to deliver an increasingly unpopular Brexit or Tories delivering and increasingly unpopular Brexit and destroying the economy while doing so. 
A remainer Prime Minister failed to deliver Brexit, remember her and her mighty words that "no deal is better than a bad deal" well Mrs May has announced that she will try to scupper any 'no deal,' you really couldn't make this stuff up, all proving she never wanted to leave in the first place and she has just led the country down the garden path for the last three years.
 
If the Tories don't go for Brexit by the end of Oct they are toast, so Boris is the Tories only chance, should he be successfull I think a statue of him placed next to Nelson in Travalgar Square would be most fitting. And of course if he is not successfull there will be quite a few defections to the new Brexit Party.
 
 

T May is a quisling..a sociopath imo.
" quite a few " etc...imo there will be a lot more than that..also the Brexit Party's coffers will swell as former tory financial backers will throw their money instead at the Brexit Party.
Very interesting times ahead.

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[malagateddy]

What because Tory voters are all closet Farage fans.
 
Let’s hear Brexit Party policies on health, welfare, education, housing, public transport, policing, defense, pensions, the environment, infrastructure and the future of the NHS all the stuff that matters.
 
 
 
 

No doubt you..me..and everyone else will know the Brexit Party's policies come near the next GE

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[vogie]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Alex Salmond's integrity was not in question when he was a paid politician. 

 

But your response does not answer my question. Do you think morals and integrity are not important features in our leaders? How low would a politician need to stoop before he became unpalatable in your eyes?

When you are relying on James O'Brien tweet RR, that is low. You normally have a better argument than that. But what Boris does in his private life is up to him, the clues in the word 'private'

[malagateddy]

Why? Do you think the morality or otherwise of our leaders is irrelevant? 
 

It certainly was irrelevant to the labour party committing the UK to a senseless war .. iraq..WMD.

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[malagateddy]

When I start listening to tweets coming from James O'Brien is the day I join the Labour Party. I can't remember you questioning the integrety of Alex Salmond, funny that.

The same mr salmond who has been charged with 7 attempted rapes etc etc.
The same mr salmond who told an utter pack of lies to the scottish people just before the indy ref.
I.e. ..his oh so famous " gers " figures..future economic predictions etc etc.

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[AGareth2]

Johnson is Churchillian

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I think he will better twitter from his living room. Or send a message in a bottle.

No unpleasant questions.

No danger that his lack of detailed knowledge becomes visible.

Great PM candidate.

The UK sinks like a stone in the water.

Whether you like him or not he has the ability to make audiences laugh & burst into rapturous applause in the most unlikely of circumstances even when he is being serious; It's called eccentricity and is wonderfully BRITISH...

The only other people with this unique gift are/were the likes of Tommy Cooper, The Big Yin & Prince Harry.

[Dumbastheycome]

19 minutes ago, evadgib said:

"They (Brexiters) didn't know what they were voting for?" 

 

If true why does it not equally apply in t'other direction?

It does apply in reality. A vote on a flawed question.

[candide]

25 minutes ago, evadgib said:

"They (Brexiters) didn't know what they were voting for?" 

 

If true why does it not equally apply in t'other direction?

Because the EU already exists and can be observed. The anticipated Brexit was (and still is) a set of a certain number of hypothetical variants.

Edited June 17, 2019 by candide

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

He is avoiding questioning and debate.

 

That is cowardice as far as I am concerned and makes him even more unfit for purpose. 

I doubt if the significance of his 'not wanting to debate with people jostling for silver medal position' evaded him.

Edited June 17, 2019 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

When you are relying on James O'Brien tweet RR, that is low. You normally have a better argument than that. But what Boris does in his private life is up to him, the clues in the word 'private'

The source is irrelevant - it is the point that is being made that is the salient issue. He wants to become the highest politician in the land. That was never an option offered to the voting public. 

 

Personally, I believe that we should entrust the position of PM to someone who is a good, decent, honest AND INTELLIGENT person. I believe that none of those qualities can be attributed to Johnson. 

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The source is irrelevant - it is the point that is being made that is the salient issue. He wants to become the highest politician in the land. That was never an option offered to the voting public. 

 

Personally, I believe that we should entrust the position of PM to someone who is a good, decent, honest AND INTELLIGENT person. I believe that none of those qualities can be attributed to Johnson. 

He's on par with Stephen Fry re intelligence & putting the ol' lingo to good use IMO.

Edited June 17, 2019 by evadgib

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

The source is irrelevant - it is the point that is being made that is the salient issue. He wants to become the highest politician in the land. That was never an option offered to the voting public. 

 

Personally, I believe that we should entrust the position of PM to someone who is a good, decent, honest AND INTELLIGENT person. I believe that none of those qualities can be attributed to Johnson. 

And in the same breath, probably the qualities you are seeking in a politician may not apply to any of them. 

IMO you are just finding fault with the man because he is the biggest threat a remainer could wish for.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Since Chomper is challenging us all to "predict", let me take him up on that last challenge:  I believe (and of course anything we, all of us, say here is just a matter of  "belief", like guessing the Derby winner) that the policy of the Brexit Party would differ very little indeed from the policies of most of the centrist parties of the UK and the EU and Canada (and even of the Demo/GOP parties of the US).  No body dares to step too far from the Centre. 

I’m not challenging you or anyone else, I’m observing that the Brexit party have no policies beyond Brexit, though we do know Farage’s highly politically toxic views on the NHS.

[RuamRudy]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

And in the same breath, probably the qualities you are seeking in a politician may not apply to any of them. 

IMO you are just finding fault with the man because he is the biggest threat a remainer could wish for.

 

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

And in the same breath, probably the qualities you are seeking in a politician may not apply to any of them. 

 IMO you are just finding fault with the man because he is the biggest threat a remainer could wish for.

Absolutely not - while I still believe that Brexit will more than likely leave us all economically and culturally poorer, I also realise that it will hasten the demise of the UK so, if it has to happen I want the hardest, most damaging of all.

 

But that said, I also believe in the importance of honour and integrity in the people leading us, regardless of whether that be in a UK government or an independent Scotland. 

[tebee]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I can understand remainers not liking Boris, afteral he is one of the PM contenders most likely to honour the democratic referendum and get us out of the EU. The entire Tory party is reliant on Boris to save them from extinction, maybe he is the only one to do it, who knows.

Putting another remainer in charge, like Hunt or Stewart will surely finish the Tories off completely.

Sajid Javed made a very valid point  "You don't beat the Brexit Party by becoming the Brexit Party.

[malagateddy]

The source is irrelevant - it is the point that is being made that is the salient issue. He wants to become the highest politician in the land. That was never an option offered to the voting public. 
 
Personally, I believe that we should entrust the position of PM to someone who is a good, decent, honest AND INTELLIGENT person. I believe that none of those qualities can be attributed to Johnson. 

Good..decent..etc..lets face facts here..the vast majority of politicians from lowly town councillors to the top of the tree in the UK are not exactly " angels ".
Professional liars most of them imo..including scottish ones!!

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[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Sajid Javed made a very valid point  "You don't beat the Brexit Party by becoming the Brexit Party.

But the Brexit Party are beating the Tories in every poll, so the point may not be that valid.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

51 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I doubt if the significance of his 'not wanting to debate with people jostling for silver medal position' evaded him.

Cowards always have excuses...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

So, in your opinion, one constituency defines the level of support for Brexit? 

 

The Brexit party received the highest share of the vote in 9 of the 12 regions so what does that say about support for Brexit rather than hand-picking one constituency?

 

The fact that 72% of voters turned out for the Brexit vote and just under 37% bothered to vote in the European elections just might say something about how the voters feel.

Fresh data from two weeks ago v data from three years ago.

 

That Brexit Party failed to mobilise even 20% of Leave voters in the recent by-election is not evidence of popular support for Brexit.

 

Quite the contrary.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Chomper Higgot