Thailand Ranks Next To Worst Corruption-Plagued Asian Economies

[Jai Dee]

Thailand ranks next to worst corruption-plagued Asian economies

SINGAPORE - Here is a table of the corruption scores of 13 Asian economies, as seen in a survey of businessmen by the Political and Economic Risk Consultancy (PERC) and released Tuesday.

On a scale of zero to ten, zero is the best possible score.

In brackets are the scores last year.

1: Singapore, 1.20 (1.30)

2: Hong Kong, 1.87 (3.13)

3: Japan, 2.10 (3.01)

4: Macau, 5.11 (4.78)

5: Taiwan, 6.23 (5.91)

6: Malaysia, 6.25 (6.13)

7: China, 6.29 (7.58)

8: South Korea, 6.3 (5.44)

9: India, 6.67 (6.76)

10: Vietnam 7.54 (7.91)

11: Indonesia, 8.03 (8.16), Thailand, 8.03 (7.64)

13: Philippines, 9.40 (7.80)

Source: The Nation - 13 March 2007

[Mid]

could have a guess that a list of economic progress for the same period would rank in the same order .................

[cclub75]

could have a guess that a list of economic progress for the same period would rank in the same order .................

Absolutly.

You can add : education.

And... colonization, except for Japan. It seems that there is a correlation...

[ThaiGoon]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

[cdnvic]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

Yeah because there was little corruption before Thaksin, and the last 5 or so constitutions have always eliminated corruption.

Face it. It's endemic here and won't be disappearing anytime soon.

[wintermute]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

Yeah because there was little corruption before Thaksin, and the last 5 or so constitutions have always eliminated corruption.

Face it. It's endemic here and won't be disappearing anytime soon.

The CNS is pushing on having a de facto unelected prime minister too. I bet things will really improve with an authoritarian figurehead accountable to noone.

[ThaiGoon]

Yeah because there was little corruption before Thaksin, and the last 5 or so constitutions have always eliminated corruption.

Face it. It's endemic here and won't be disappearing anytime soon.

I didn't say that there was little corruption before Thaksin nor did I say that the new contitution would "eliminate" corruption. Is my English really that bad that you always seem to have a hard time grasping what I say (type)?

[thedude]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

That's interesting. The entire Thai history? Tell me more.

[wintermute]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

That's interesting. The entire Thai history? Tell me more.

I guess he's conveniently forgetting about all those not so bloodless coups in the past or the '97 financial crisis kicked off by bad loans and corruption.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

Most corrupt country in Asia is Bangladesh. ......thats commonly accepted by analysts and NGOs

Bangladesh is so corrupt it usually isn't even counted in surveys, its taken as understood that they win (Perhaps they bribed the poll takers).

[ThaiGoon]

The year before, China wasn't ranked much higher than Thailand. They also have a history of chronic corruption throughout their gov't. What they achieved in the lastest survey shows that it can be done if top gov't officials are serious about solving the corruption problems.

From what I've read about the drafting of the new Thailand consitition, there are a lot of promising new ideas and regulations to help curb the amount of corruption in Thailand. It looks like they are serious in helping the country. So yeah, I believe that it will be better.

Note: For any ever-so-intelligent and oh-so-smart farangs who might not understand my Thaiglish, I didn't say that corruption in Thailand will disappear overnight. I just said that I believe the new constitution will help reduce it. Please understand what I say this time. Please.

Edited March 13, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[andook]

The year before, China wasn't ranked much higher than Thailand. They also have a history of chronic corruption throughout their gov't. What they achieved in the lastest survey shows that it can be done if top gov't officials are serious about solving the corruption problems.

From what I've read about the drafting of the new Thailand consitition, there are a lot of promising new ideas and regulations to help curb the amount of corruption in Thailand. It looks like they are serious in helping the country. So yeah, I believe that it will be better.

Note: For any ever-so-intelligent and oh-so-smart farangs who might not understand my Thaiglish, I didn't say that corruption in Thailand will disappear overnight. I just said that I believe the new constitution will help reduce it. Please understand what I say this time. Please.

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

[ThaiGoon]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

That's interesting. The entire Thai history? Tell me more.

Anand Panyarachun, whom I admire and respect a lot, said so once. Also, I know one "roon pee" whose father was initially on the board that helped oversee Suvanarbhumi project. Let me just say that he told me a lot of things, and his father had to resign from the post later because he couldn't stand what they were doing.

[ThaiGoon]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

[blaze]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

[chatette]

I'd agree that tagging Thaksin's government as `generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history' is fair comment. The financial stakes were much higher during Thaksin's period in office than they have ever been before. Poor corporate governance and weak financial system regulation had much more to do with the financial collapse post June 7, 1997. Corruption was a minor component, although it's hard to separate the two completely. Bangkok Bank of Corruption, oops, I mean Commerce, contributed to events a year later with its 1996 collapse with $3 bln in debt, much of it allegedly embezzled even tho Bank of Thailand officials appointed Krirkkiat Jalichandra from their ranks to help sort out liquidity problems in 1986. Krirkkiat, of coursse, has been convicted to serve 50 years in jail, not that he's ever likely to see the inside of one....Now that's another chapter in the story that will keep Thailand ranking high in the corruption stakes, regardless of who's in power, and continue to hinder it's economic development for years to come, regardless of what the next constitution says or even the ones after that....

Edited March 13, 2007 by chatette

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I've never had to pay a bribe in Thailand.

If there came a time when I did have to pay one, i'm sure it would be in circumstances that would mean it was more convenient to pay up than face the rulebook.

When I lived in Indonesia I forgot an important document at immigration, I paid US$5 and was waved through. Try that in the developed world, they'd put you on the next plane out.

Corruption tends to make things go a lot smoother. Particularly in a dysfunctional environment. People tend to get sanctimonious about corruption, but you have to think laterally about it, rather than see it as just a malicious force

[cdnvic]

Corruption tends to make things go a lot smoother. Particularly in a dysfunctional environment.

Maybe we should switch the term to "Situational lubrication"

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

Are Moderators open to a bit of 'tai-to' money?

With the appropriate lubrication, if one wanted Scampy reinstatiing could someone slip him in the backdoor ?

[PeaceBlondie]

The most iron-clad, anti-corruption Constitution in history, backed by death penalties for corrupt Thai officials, wouldn't be worth toilet tissue unless it was enforced. And in Thailand, which always had anti-corruption laws, enforcement is seldom if ever. Even an incompetent, poor, banana republic like Nicaragua put its corrupt president in jail for corruption!

[Naam]

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

well... we all have wet dreams (once in a while)

[Prakanong]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

Yeah because there was little corruption before Thaksin, and the last 5 or so constitutions have always eliminated corruption.

Face it. It's endemic here and won't be disappearing anytime soon.

Exactly - it did not start with Thaksin and I doubt he raised the score by anything if you look back at the index produced over the years.

[gummy]

But let us not forget it is in most countries. The Uk lubricated the wheels with the Saudi's under Thatcher for a defence deal and just recently the extension to this i.e. the BAE "slushfund" that was undergoing months of investigation by MI5 and Senior Police officials was closed down, directly by the current governement, on the grounds it was "Not in the public" interest. Of course any state official or officials who are benefiting directly or indirectly from irregular payments would claim that wouldn't they? I am not sure if Thailand has swept a corrupted deal under the carpet as "not in the public" interest though as blatantly as the UK just have.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I'm hearing that the reason why Khun Thaksin has not had charges levelled against him, is because the new regime is not finding it as easy to find the 'smoking gun' of evidence that they anticipated

They are concerned that if they get a not guilty verdict, that might clear the paths for who knows what.

[slimdog]

The survey must have been conducted over the course of last year when Thailand still had Thaksin as the prime minister. So I'm not surprised by the result. His administration was generally considered the most corrupt ever in the entire Thai history.

Anyway, I believe there will be less corruption in the country once the new constitution goes into effect.

Thai corruption 'worse since coup'

Corruption in Thailand has grown worse in the past year in the opinion of foreign businessmen, who say only the Philippines now has more graft in the Southeast Asian region.

The survey ranked 13 nations, as perceived by foreign businessmen - i.e. people living or based outside the country being voted on. Thai businessmen were polled, but not on Thailand.

also:

The junta that ousted Thaksin Shinawatra as Thailand's prime minister last September promised to fight corruption "but there is no reason to be confident that its behaviour will be any cleaner," PERC said.

Full details: http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=117400

[andook]

I've never had to pay a bribe in Thailand.

If there came a time when I did have to pay one, i'm sure it would be in circumstances that would mean it was more convenient to pay up than face the rulebook.

When I lived in Indonesia I forgot an important document at immigration, I paid US$5 and was waved through. Try that in the developed world, they'd put you on the next plane out.

Corruption tends to make things go a lot smoother. Particularly in a dysfunctional environment. People tend to get sanctimonious about corruption, but you have to think laterally about it, rather than see it as just a malicious force

For trifling matters a small bribe lubricates what could be a sticky situation. On a larger scale it costs the country billions in wasted time; money; human and natural resources; reputation; etc. It also ensures that dysfunctional nepotism and cronyism continues to rob its citizens of a decent income; education; future; etc.

Where do you draw the line?

[Plus]

Corruption is a big word, you can't easily pin it down - is it less or more. Under Thaksin government agencies were forced to work for once in their lives and drug peddlers were taken off the street - that surely had a positive effect on corruption. In other areas it was exactly the opposite.

Same goes for the new government. If there's a perception that they are not in charge, little Somchais will surely start milking the system again. The things at the top are the opposite (hopefully). The government is going after the big guys, every pre-junta project is going through "clearing" process, everyting is stalled (no lubrication).

On the other hand it appears as the government cannot do anything at all, at least in the short term.

Like withdrawal from tobacco - there's going to be a lot of undesired side effects first but in the end it will be worth it.

[peter991]

The problem with corruption in Thailand is that it is so blatant. To see senior police openly taking payments from bar owners in Pattaya with no shame that anybody can see the transaction. I saw it regularly.

Who am I going to report corruption to? The police???

Peter

[Plus]

Thais are not good enough for their laws. Maybe it's the face thing - they want the best constitution in the world but they can't keep it or live by it.

[lannarebirth]

Corruption is a big word, you can't easily pin it down - is it less or more. Under Thaksin government agencies were forced to work for once in their lives and drug peddlers were taken off the street - that surely had a positive effect on corruption. In other areas it was exactly the opposite.

Same goes for the new government. If there's a perception that they are not in charge, little Somchais will surely start milking the system again. The things at the top are the opposite (hopefully). The government is going after the big guys, every pre-junta project is going through "clearing" process, everyting is stalled (no lubrication).

On the other hand it appears as the government cannot do anything at all, at least in the short term.

Like withdrawal from tobacco - there's going to be a lot of undesired side effects first but in the end it will be worth it.

I think the "policy corruption" that was introduced in the Thaksin administration increased the level of corruption (in monetary terms) by several orders of magnitude.