Thailand Ranks Next To Worst Corruption-Plagued Asian Economies

[wolfmanjack]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

[slimdog]

As for the part of the constitution limiting a PM to two terms or 8 years as reducing corruption I fail to see how.

Thaksin was the only PM to see out a full term and be re-elected and there was plenty of corruption before him.

Look at Chavalit and earlier "Generals". Just how much did they make out of the Baht devaluation and drugs?

The only biggie ever convicted was Sanan if I remember correctly.

The biggest problem with having a limit of 2 terms or 8 years would be for example:

Banharn Silapa-archa: If he was in a future general election made the Prime Minister of a coalition government, then he would be well aware that this would be his final term,( as he has already served one term already) and if probems did arise he might do just about anything to keep the coalition intact, regardless of the social, economic or political consequences..

[ThaiGoon]

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

True that!

[blaze]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

You are confusing a constitution with the legal codes- there are already laws on the books prohibiting various forms of corruption. Though the constitutional court could be awarded more authority in penalizing some aspects of government corruption I guess.

Edited March 14, 2007 by blaze

[ThaiGoon]

The biggest problem with having a limit of 2 terms or 8 years would be for example:

Banharn Silapa-archa: If he was in a future general election made the Prime Minister of a coalition government, then he would be well aware that this would be his final term,( as he has already served one term already) and if probems did arise he might do just about anything to keep the coalition intact, regardless of the social, economic or political consequences..

That's why there will be other measures and regulations to be incorporated into that limit.

[wolfmanjack]

I've never had to pay a bribe in Thailand.

If there came a time when I did have to pay one, i'm sure it would be in circumstances that would mean it was more convenient to pay up than face the rulebook.

When I lived in Indonesia I forgot an important document at immigration, I paid US$5 and was waved through. Try that in the developed world, they'd put you on the next plane out.

Corruption tends to make things go a lot smoother. Particularly in a dysfunctional environment. People tend to get sanctimonious about corruption, but you have to think laterally about it, rather than see it as just a malicious force

I used to think that i would not pay the police bribes either. The first time I was pulled over for something I did not do I did not pay a bribe. Instead I had to go to the police station and sit for 2 hours for the guy to take my 400 baht. I then had to listen to a lecture about how bad of a person I was to come to thailand and break the traffic laws. They also told me it was only 400 baht this time. Next time it would be 800 baht and the next more than that. After that it was 200 baht every time I have gotten pulled over even for as stupid of a thing as having a box in the back of my pickup truck. I started out by saying "isn't that what a pickup truck is for?" and then said oh i forgot it is only an excuse to get 200 baht. Here ya go.

[longway]

Corruption is a way of life here. Same as in most "Industrialising" (read: Third World) countries. Basically, if you've never had the discipline (usually dictated by hardship) to invent anything by yourselves, then you'll never appreciate anything thats given to you, or learn how to use it properly.

So may I ask what you yourself have invented? Nothing I suppose?

The Baited Forum Hook. [pat. pending]

Yourself?

Also if someone is not a moron who never invented anything in his life, he would know better. He would know that acting like a self righteous snob while he's never invented anything himself is pretty ironic and extremely stupid.

I appreciate the fact that you want to defend your homeland, but the name calling and belligerance is out of line. If you think you have to rise to the bait everytime people make what are usually valid comments that may not always portray Thailand in the best light then you will burn out fast trying to keep up.

If you want to have reasoned discussions with people then you'd be an interesting addition to the mix. If on the other hand you wish to respond to every criticism of Thailand by calling people stupid, or moron, then you don't do yourself or your country any favours.

well im not sure his outburst was unjustified, the bold is a pretty obnoxious remark, and ignorant as well. i think self righteous snob is a fair decription of the poster.

nothing has been ever given to anybody, if there was any transfer of technology it was paid for at premium prices, not to mnention the lives lost. to imply that developing countries know nothing of hardship is just so stupid i cant quite believe he said it, let alone have someone defend such brainless statement.

thailand is not at the forefront of developing new technology, but to say that they have not invented anything is just ignorance. btw what does corruption and having invented anything have to do with each other. his post was just badly veiled thai bashing. he has nothing to add to this thread either.

Edited March 14, 2007 by longway

[longway]

A lack integrity or morals is the problem.

Everybody is willing to lie and cheat, from the Prime Minister, down to the street vendor, selling bottled water.

If they can screw somebody, they will.

a lack of intehrity is of course the problem

however the second statement is not an logical extension of the first. ur wrong on this one. personally i think u should apologise for calling all thais liars and cheats.

[wolfmanjack]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

You are confusing a constitution with the legal codes- there are already laws on the books prohibiting various forms of corruption. Though the constitutional court could be awarded more authority in penalizing some aspects of government corruption I guess.

Am I ???? The US Consitution spells out what constitutes treason so why couldn't the thai constitution declare corruption by a government official treason????.

U.S. Constitution - Article 3 Section 3

Article 3 - The Judicial Branch

Section 3 - Treason

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

[blaze]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

You are confusing a constitution with the legal codes- there are already laws on the books prohibiting various forms of corruption. Though the constitutional court could be awarded more authority in penalizing some aspects of government corruption I guess.

Am I ???? The US Consitution spells out what constitutes treason so why couldn't the thai constitution declare corruption by a government official treason????.

U.S. Constitution - Article 3 Section 3

Article 3 - The Judicial Branch

Section 3 - Treason

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Come to think of it, yeah, you're right- maybe a good idea. Though some might argue, a slippery slope.

[madjbs]

Thai Goon is indeed very brave to venture onto this board where there seems to be so many anti Thai trolls, or even not trolls but snobs.

The original statement is complete rubbish and just yet another attempt to belittle and bash Thailand. In my experience just because something was invented in the west it really has no impact on how much people appreciate that thing. Most people are in no way connected to any kind of inventing so to most people its just a case of, see it in the shop, buy it. This in fact leeds to the opposite situation as to what andook describes, people here seem to be far more grateful for simple things that people take completely for granted in the west.

Jake

Edited March 14, 2007 by madjbs

[egeefay]

I would be interested to know how they researched and measured corruption in these countries.

And Are they talking about corruption of people high up in government...or the policeman who tires to extort 100 baht from a taxi driver?

Does anyone have any idea how they came up with the figures and rankings.

Not that I question thailand being labelled as one of the worst offenders....I've seen and heard enough corruption stories in the Land Of Smiles to convince me that there is some truth to the survey.

But how would you go about ranking countries based on corruption.

Corruption isn't something you can easily measure...like temperature , disease or poverty.

Did they send 100 people out to bribe traffic cops in each country?

[Jai Dee]

Survey: Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia most corrupt in Asia

A poll conducted by Political and Economic Risk Consultancy Ltd. has found that the three most corrupt nations in Asia are Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia.

Indonesia has finally managed to improve a bit as they have managed to drop down from the top spot after five long years.

The survey further claimed that Singapore continues to remain the least corrupt nation in the Asian continent.

PERC said in the statement: “The Philippines has the distinction of being perceived in the worst light this year. It is bad and has been bad all along. People are just growing tired of the inaction and insincerity of leading officials when they promise to fight corruption.”

China was placed at seventh spot while our own India stood at fifth. Not a poll where any nation would like to top the charts.

Source: Business World - 14 March 2007

[madjbs]

Even if the way they went about getting this data was in any way fair, why have they missed out: Burma, Bangledesh, Cambodia, Laos, Bhutan, Nepal etc..

Edited March 14, 2007 by madjbs

[gummy]

The problem here is never "new ideas" or "regulations". There is always plenty of those here. What is lacking is implementation. The Constitution is worth nothing without the actions to back the words. No need to get defensive about your English. Seems fine to me.

So why shoot it down right now when it has not even taken off the ground yet? Why don't we just wait and see what happens in the next year or two before we start moaning as usual? Why don't we give it, the new constitution, and these people a chance? There will still be plenty of time and opportuinites for anyone to moan.

What would have to be written into a constitution- not a legal code but a constitution, that would prevent corruption? There is already a legal code that forbids corruption (by definition, corruption is illegal isn't it?). What can a constitution do to ensure that people don't break the law?

Here is one for ya. The consitution could declare that corruption by a gov official is treason and is punishable by death. I am sure that would reduce it and if carried out then there would not be repeat offenders.

Good idea and to expand it to other nations. If only that had been in force 20+ years ago the UK could have got rid of Thatcher and her son ! Mind you the Saudi's would have protected them !

[gummy]

I would be interested to know how they researched and measured corruption in these countries.

And Are they talking about corruption of people high up in government...or the policeman who tires to extort 100 baht from a taxi driver?

Does anyone have any idea how they came up with the figures and rankings.

Not that I question thailand being labelled as one of the worst offenders....I've seen and heard enough corruption stories in the Land Of Smiles to convince me that there is some truth to the survey.

But how would you go about ranking countries based on corruption.

Corruption isn't something you can easily measure...like temperature , disease or poverty.

Did they send 100 people out to bribe traffic cops in each country?

[gummy]

I would be interested to know how they researched and measured corruption in these countries.

And Are they talking about corruption of people high up in government...or the policeman who tires to extort 100 baht from a taxi driver?

Does anyone have any idea how they came up with the figures and rankings.

Not that I question thailand being labelled as one of the worst offenders....I've seen and heard enough corruption stories in the Land Of Smiles to convince me that there is some truth to the survey.

But how would you go about ranking countries based on corruption.

Corruption isn't something you can easily measure...like temperature , disease or poverty.

Did they send 100 people out to bribe traffic cops in each country?

The World Bank and Transparency International most probably sub-contract the investigation and analysis to that famous organisation, International Masturbators Inc. so that they can come up with whatever result their masters and main donators deem appropriate - opps, is that not the US again ?

[Sing_Sling]

At last Thailand can call itself the HUB of Corruption Applause!

The arch nemesis Singapore slides in again as the least corrupt despite many board members here know the opposite to be true!!!

Honestly, it is a sad sight for Thailand to sink to such depths. we see it all around us, we see it everyday. It is not even hidden, it is in plain sight and so obvious as to have reached the level of being normal.

Police stop you for no reason other than to get some tea money.

Public servants will do their job if you give them some baksheesh.

etc . . . .

It is sad and pathetic and the ones at the bottom of the ladder suffer the most . . . as usual, the poor.

[lazeeboy]

At last Thailand can call itself the HUB of Corruption Applause!

The arch nemesis Singapore slides in again as the least corrupt despite many board members here know the opposite to be true!!!

Honestly, it is a sad sight for Thailand to sink to such depths. we see it all around us, we see it everyday. It is not even hidden, it is in plain sight and so obvious as to have reached the level of being normal.

Police stop you for no reason other than to get some tea money.

every time im in bkk i use a lot of taxis (the ones who will put the meter on ) are always complaining about the police wanting there 100-200b maybe its the police bosses wanting from them i think everyones at it all over thailand and the world somthing we have to live with and hope it doesnt cost us to much money it seems no one knows whats going on in high places only joe public........

Public servants will do their job if you give them some baksheesh.

etc . . . .

It is sad and pathetic and the ones at the bottom of the ladder suffer the most . . . as usual, the poor.

[Gravelrash]

At least Hub of Corruption is achievable based on current skills base. I agree that Thai Goon is fearless venturing forth to defend the indefensable, but who would blame him. I also agree some posters just moan about the Thais for the sake of it, and yet there are those that moan though the frustration of seeing this place not be all it should be. But keeping it like it is maintains the equilibrium.

Corruption here is rampant, and moreso than those that rarely have contact with officialdom outside the ranks of Thailand's Finest might imagine. It isn't amusing and it hinders business and raises the costs of doing business. The parasites that demand "more paper" contribute absolutely nothing and purely make those that do generate money and jobs squirm for the privalege of doing so.

My ex-wife wanted her kids to join either the government or the police. For betterment of society? Actually no, she said that was where the real money was.

Under the current regime nothing has improved, just read the papers to see who is getting away with what. I really doubt that it will ever change, which is sadly why Thailand will be a 3rd world backwater if they don't wake up, competition around here is building.

[Plus]

Polls like that are conducted among foreign businessmen - it' the perception of corruption. That would explain why Laos or Bangladesh were not covered.

Transparency International/Wold Bank results could be more objective, but they might count only legal loopholes where corruption MAY occur.

If one counted petty cases like small bribes in the government offices, Thailand could have improved last year, but I bet they didn't cover the government passing the laws to benefit PMs TV station by a cool billion baht. That was all strictly legal at the time, now the law has caught up with it.

[blaze]

Polls like that are conducted among foreign businessmen - it' the perception of corruption. That would explain why Laos or Bangladesh were not covered.

Transparency International/Wold Bank results could be more objective, but they might count only legal loopholes where corruption MAY occur.

If one counted petty cases like small bribes in the government offices, Thailand could have improved last year, but I bet they didn't cover the government passing the laws to benefit PMs TV station by a cool billion baht. That was all strictly legal at the time, now the law has caught up with it.

I'll bet they also didn't include as corruption, the army seizing the parliament, setting up a puppet govenment and then via that government, helping themselves to tens of millions of taxpayers baht - to cover the costs of seizing the parliament.

Edited March 15, 2007 by blaze

[Amethyst]

I was once in Jakarta Airport flying off to Bangkok. The Q at the immigration checkpoint was really long. And my flight is about to take off in another 15 mins. i then walk up straight by pass the other people put in $usd20 in my passport hand it up to the immigration and said . I need help. He took it open up my passport and stamp the passport . off i go .