Rescue ship's captain accuses European states of abandoning migrants

[usviphotography]

5 hours ago, wisperone said:

It is not just 42 people.  In actuality, it is millions of people. There is no end in sight. That ship is flying under Dutch flag. Why don't they bring them to Holland.

Immigration will ruin Europe. It is about time someone takes a stand to stop it. I think that Sea Watch 3 would make a good artificial reef.

It is not millions of people. It is billions of people. Europe either rises up to put an end to this nonsense or Europe it is the end of Europe, pure and simple. Captain should be arrested for human trafficking and the ship taken back to Africa to let the passengers off and then sunk.  

 

[Cryingdick]

It's like a parallel universe on this site. The American threads for migrants are much different. This is a humanitarian crisis. They should take them in, open their borders to one and all, feed them, house them, give them unlimited free medical care, pay for transsexual abortions and tax the citizens to do so.

[brokenbone]

7 hours ago, JemJem said:

 

I think that the ideal solution lies somewhere in between.

i think the ideal solution is to only accept those that feed them self, not one single tax euro should ever go to feed insignificant others, that has never contributed to society, nor their ancestors, there is simply no base for which to spend on them

[thaibeachlovers]

34 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

It's like a parallel universe on this site. The American threads for migrants are much different. This is a humanitarian crisis. They should take them in, open their borders to one and all, feed them, house them, give them unlimited free medical care, pay for transsexual abortions and tax the citizens to do so.

People with similar views as we who say hold back the tide, in the US, are probably too busy working to take part in on line discussions, while TVF is populated with loads of retired people  many of which are living far from home country, but we did it the legal way and paid large to do so.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, JemJem said:

There are those like Trump, Orban and Salvini who are anti-migrant to the degree of bigotry. And, their countries can actually easily take in a lot more migrants without major problems.

at the expense of the taxpayer, and did anyone ask them if they wanted to pay? I think they made their views known when they elected a president that wanted to limit immigration. 

BTW, it's Trump's job to look after citizens first, not those with no ties to the US.

[simple1]

6 hours ago, Bullie said:

They are not RETURNED. ..

Semantics

[thaibeachlovers]

On Al Jazeera news. Italy has capitulated and the ship has docked in Italy.

[Cryingdick]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

On Al Jazeera news. Italy has capitulated and the ship has docked in Italy.

 

That's not as fun as making them walk the plank. This thread has served as a reminder how liberal leftist Americans are in comparison to what our European cousins feel.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On Al Jazeera news. Italy has capitulated and the ship has docked in Italy.

Update.

They are now saying she avoided blocking ships to force her way into port. wrong about Italy capitulating, apologies.

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Update.

They are now saying she avoided blocking ships to force her way into port. wrong about Italy capitulating, apologies.

Arrest her and send them back OR others will follow, in thousands.

[meinphuket]

Resolve the problems in your countries, like we did. Repatriate them to their port of departure. Enough is enough.

[evadgib]

This related clip caught my eye several months ago:

 

[Pilotman]

21 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

With hindsight it wasn't  a good idea to bomb Libya and force regime change after all, or a few other places for that matter.  

It is rarely a bad idea to bomb bad guys.  It's the politicians that screw up the fall out that is the problem. 

[jany123]

18 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

It may seem heartless but these ships should stop picking people up.   The only way to stop the illegal people trafficking is basically to ignore it until the Libyan's and other groups stop deliberately dumping people out in the Ocean in small boats to be 'rescued' or die.  All European country's should flatly refuse to take in more migrants despite what the bleeding heart Liberals want.

 

It is now illegal for Commercial Vessel's to pick these people up and the sooner these 'Rescue Ships' stop offering their services to people traffickers the better...because that is what they are effectively doing !

What do you mean by “it may seem heartless”? It is 100% heartless, no ifs, buts or maybe about it.

 

but that aside ( as your morales are your own) can you provide a link to the claim that it’s illegal for commercial shipping to rescue people in distress at sea.... because I can find no such law, and would counter that it’s illegal not to rescue lives at risk at sea, and to then deliver them to a safe place (for those suggesting they be taken back to Libya etc... a safe place typically means not returning them to their point of origin)

 

things are not perfect, but there are laws in place, which should be adhered too.... and yes, perhaps these laws need to be changed. 

 

look at Israel as a near perfect example of mishandling a refugee crisis. refugees have always been an issue, and it’s common sense that it always will be an issue.... and this issue certainly needs a shed load of thought before the US create another refugee crisis in Iran.

[roobaa01]

1. italian hero dr.salvini lega nord has received a public mandate to keep illegal social burden out of the country, eurpean election 34 %

 

2. sea captain and crew are criminal human traffickers , who hopefully will be trialed in italy. they violated italian law which prohibits any vessel with illegals to enter italian waters without italian permission. international maritime law requests illegals to be returned to nearest ports marocco or tunisia.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[thaibeachlovers]

49 minutes ago, jany123 said:

What do you mean by “it may seem heartless”? It is 100% heartless, no ifs, buts or maybe about it.

 

but that aside ( as your morales are your own) can you provide a link to the claim that it’s illegal for commercial shipping to rescue people in distress at sea.... because I can find no such law, and would counter that it’s illegal not to rescue lives at risk at sea, and to then deliver them to a safe place (for those suggesting they be taken back to Libya etc... a safe place typically means not returning them to their point of origin)

 

things are not perfect, but there are laws in place, which should be adhered too.... and yes, perhaps these laws need to be changed. 

 

look at Israel as a near perfect example of mishandling a refugee crisis. refugees have always been an issue, and it’s common sense that it always will be an issue.... and this issue certainly needs a shed load of thought before the US create another refugee crisis in Iran.

Heartless maybe, but there are 17 million or so refugees in the world, so how many brought to YOUR country

will it take to assuage feelings of heartlessness?

 

It may be international law for a vessel to rescue those in peril on the sea, but it doesn't mean that any particular country should take them. Nothing to say that they shouldn't be taken back to the country of departure ie Libya. If Libya doesn't want them back, then they should not have allowed them into the country in the first place, IMO

If Italy won't take them, then take them to the country the ship is registered in.

 

Every boatload that successfully reaches Europe is used by the evil traffickers to encourage others to try.

[Ozman52]

1 hour ago, jany123 said:

for those suggesting they be taken back to Libya etc... a safe place typically means not returning them to their point of origin)

"Governments have to coordinate and cooperate to ensure that Masters of ships providing assistance by embarking persons in distress at sea are released from their obligations with minimum further deviation from the ship’s intended voyage, and have to arrange disembarkation as soon as reasonably practicable." https://www.refworld.org/docid/54b365554.html

 

Where does that state not returning them to their point of origin? If nationals of other countries are willing to travel to Libya to attempt a crossing, why should it be excluded as a drop-off point? It was safe enough to sail from, but not to? Those facilitating illegal immigration under the excuse of rescue are not covered by Maritime law, and that is why preferred destination countries have the right to refuse them entry. 

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Heartless maybe, but there are 17 million or so refugees in the world, so how many brought to YOUR country

will it take to assuage feelings of heartlessness?

 

It may be international law for a vessel to rescue those in peril on the sea, but it doesn't mean that any particular country should take them. Nothing to say that they shouldn't be taken back to the country of departure ie Libya. If Libya doesn't want them back, then they should not have allowed them into the country in the first place, IMO

If Italy won't take them, then take them to the country the ship is registered in.

 

Every boatload that successfully reaches Europe is used by the evil traffickers to encourage others to try.

"It may be international law for a vessel to rescue those in peril on the sea, but it doesn't mean that any particular country should take them.  Nothing to say that they shouldn't be taken back to the country of departure"

 

In this case it appears to be a ship looking for 'refugees'......

 

"Every boatload that successfully reaches Europe is used by the evil traffickers to encourage others to try."

 

Agree entirely, but would add that it also results in many dying in the attempt ☹️.

 

And yet some think that those posting that trying to stop this this TRADE are heartless..... 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

And yet some think that those posting that trying to stop this this TRADE are heartless..... 

Exactly, when the opposite is true. By stopping the boats, Australia saved many economic migrant's lives. Same in the Mediterranean. Stop the boats and economic migrants will no longer be dying at sea.

[Kiwiken]

These ships are supporting the problem. they pick up refugees off the coast of libya and then bring them to Europe. italy should fly the refugees back where they started. And take this rescue ship out to see and scuttle it in international waters. Destroy the ships they cannot bring them to the European Coasts.

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

These ships are supporting the problem. they pick up refugees off the coast of libya and then bring them to Europe. italy should fly the refugees back where they started. And take this rescue ship out to see and scuttle it in international waters. Destroy the ships they cannot bring them to the European Coasts.

Why on earth should they fly them back'?

 

Surely better to start confiscating the 'rescue boats' and use those confiscated 'rescue boats' to transport them back to their point of origin?

[jany123]

1 hour ago, Ozman52 said:

"Governments have to coordinate and cooperate to ensure that Masters of ships providing assistance by embarking persons in distress at sea are released from their obligations with minimum further deviation from the ship’s intended voyage, and have to arrange disembarkation as soon as reasonably practicable." https://www.refworld.org/docid/54b365554.html

 

Your quote does not satisfy the post I was responding too (included below)... but rather, further refutes it... thanks for the assist, although the author of that post might yet disagree with us both

 

22 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

It is now illegal for Commercial Vessel's to pick these people up and the sooner these 'Rescue Ships' stop offering their services to people traffickers the better...because that is what they are effectively doing !

As to the rest of your post... with reference to the link provided...

 

1 hour ago, Ozman52 said:

Where does that state not returning them to their point of origin? If nationals of other countries are willing to travel to Libya to attempt a crossing, why should it be excluded as a drop-off point? It was safe enough to sail from, but not to? Those facilitating illegal immigration under the excuse of rescue are not covered by Maritime law, and that is why preferred destination countries have the right to refuse them entry. 

Ok... I didn’t bother reading that link, but if you want to do the whole link jumping thing, as that site requires, then I’m sure you’ll find your answers, in need... but why on earth suggest I only use one source to better my understanding of an issue... that’s silly

 

never the less.... I said refugees needed to be disembarked at a safe place, and that safe places usually excluded the point of origin for refugees. If the rescued where Libyan fisherman, returning them to Libya would be correct... but if the refugees were Libyans fleeing persecution, Libya would not be deemed safe ( at least not until refugee claims are investigated... apply non-refoulement principle)

 

And then... are you claiming that these refugees are transiting Libya to escape North Africa... I didn’t see that... where are they from?

 

and... how do you know who’s facilitating illegal migration verses recusing lives at sea... that would be up to the ships master to decide, and act upon if he/she deemed human life was in danger, and then it would be on the courts to prove that there was illegal migration being facilitated by any person, if that’s what’s happening, but an investigation needs to be squeezed in somewhere, right?

 

as to preferred countries refusing entry... let me refer you back to your quote at the top of this response (to make it easy on ya)... to wit;

governments co ordinate... minimum deviation... a quickly as is reasonably practicable. (To a safe destination as above)

 

[jany123]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Heartless maybe, but there are 17 million or so refugees in the world, so how many brought to YOUR country

will it take to assuage feelings of heartlessness?

 

It may be international law for a vessel to rescue those in peril on the sea, but it doesn't mean that any particular country should take them. Nothing to say that they shouldn't be taken back to the country of departure ie Libya. If Libya doesn't want them back, then they should not have allowed them into the country in the first place, IMO

If Italy won't take them, then take them to the country the ship is registered in.

 

Every boatload that successfully reaches Europe is used by the evil traffickers to encourage others to try.

My country is currently complying with international laws regards refugees... so heartless with regards this issue is assuaged by complying with the law. Beyond that, offsetting further guilt at my own lack of ability to influence the refugee issue, by donating to charities, helps.

 

then more of the same... you cannot take legitimate refugees and return them from whence they fled.... it’s just not done. So... the refugees must be processed to determine the legitimacy of their claim. Sure...Return those that are not legitimate refugees... nil issue with that.

 

suggesting that refugees be taken to the registered country is totally inappropriate because a great deal of shipping is registered under “flags of convenience”, and these countries may not qualify as safe, or fall under the auspices of the quote conveniently researched by Ozman... thanks again for the assist Ozman.

 

2 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

Governments have to coordinate and cooperate to ensure that Masters of ships providing assistance by embarking persons in distress at sea are released from their obligations with minimum further deviation from the ship’s intended voyage, and have to arrange disembarkation as soon as reasonably practicable." https://www.refworld.org/docid/54b365554.html

Look... I honestly don’t know what the solution is, but I do know that the rubbish I’m responding to is not it

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, jany123 said:

My country is currently complying with international laws regards refugees... so heartless with regards this issue is assuaged by complying with the law. Beyond that, offsetting further guilt at my own lack of ability to influence the refugee issue, by donating to charities, helps.

 

then more of the same... you cannot take legitimate refugees and return them from whence they fled.... it’s just not done. So... the refugees must be processed to determine the legitimacy of their claim. Sure...Return those that are not legitimate refugees... nil issue with that.

 

suggesting that refugees be taken to the registered country is totally inappropriate because a great deal of shipping is registered under “flags of convenience”, and these countries may not qualify as safe, or fall under the auspices of the quote conveniently researched by Ozman... thanks again for the assist Ozman.

 

Look... I honestly don’t know what the solution is, but I do know that the rubbish I’m responding to is not it

In short, a load of waffle in defense of this ship that went out looking for 'refugees' that had paid to be 'abandoned' - having been told that they would be rescued by these ships.....

[jany123]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In short, a load of waffle in defense of this ship that went out looking for 'refugees' that had paid to be 'abandoned' - having been told that they would be rescued by these ships.....

No... I never once mentioned the ship.... this ship that ship, who cares, unless it’s a verifiable smuggling ship... solas is the issue, regardless of how the life’s were imperiled.

 

my comments are about the refugees and international obligations, the laws of the sea and individual countries.

 

follow the law... or change the law... and on that issue, the international court ruled that mr salvino (the Italian minister currently seizing the sea watch... not sure if correct title) acted illegally the last time he seized the vessel, and ordered its release, and now he’s gone and done it again.... it’s not unrealistic to believe the outcome will be the same.

[Letseng]

22 hours ago, simple1 said:

Numbers are significantly reducing.

 

https://migration.iom.int/europe?type=arrivals

Reducing on paper but not in physical arrival. Germany e.g. no longer publishes genuine figures.

I am in Europe at present. Ppl are tired of migrant stories. There are enough elderly folks who get less support than migrants get.

Seawatch is a Dutch reg. vessel. She can offload the ppl in Rotterdam instead of hanging around Italy.

[Baerboxer]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:23 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Purported to show. 

 

And  from that each draw their own conclusions. 

 

If its something "leaked" from sources unknown or undisclosed that supports your political view then it must be correct. If it doesn't then it must be wrong.

 

Got it - we understand now.

[Baerboxer]

56 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In short, a load of waffle in defense of this ship that went out looking for 'refugees' that had paid to be 'abandoned' - having been told that they would be rescued by these ships.....

 

Well in that big sea, it's just always so lucky that the abandoned illegal economic migrants get rescued by a NGO rescue ship that just happens to be nearby. Yes siree, very lucky indeed!

 

Time to deport all illegal economic migrants, illegal immigrants back to where they embarked from. They can find their own way home. Once that happens as the norm these waves of mostly young men expecting free handouts as a right will stop. Will the NGO's pander to them, they will keep coming.

[simple1]

36 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Germany e.g. no longer publishes genuine figures. elderly folks who get less support than migrants get.

Source to counter following and claim re elderly?

 

https://www.asylumineurope.org/reports/country/germany/statistics

[Brigand]

Answer to this is simple ... How about everyone following the bloody law and stop thinking you are more important and that the rules don't apply to you because somehow you are special? What a load of BS. Italians should toss the captain and crew in jail, impound indefinitely/scuttle the ship and deport all those (probably fit and able young men who paid criminals thousands of US$ for the trip) back to whence they came. The entitlement of many now is just dreamland.