Trump's criticism of U.S.-Japan security pact could be headache for Abe

[snoop1130]

Trump's criticism of U.S.-Japan security pact could be headache for Abe

by Linda Sieg

 

Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe shakes hands with U.S. President Donald Trump during the G20 summit in Osaka, Japan June 28, 2019. Sputnik/Mikhail Klimentyev/Kremlin via REUTERS

 

TOKYO (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s call for changes to the decades-old U.S.-Japan security treaty could complicate Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s drive to revise Japan’s pacifist constitution.

 

Trump told a news conference on Saturday after a Group of 20 (G20) summit in Japan that the 1960 treaty - the linchpin of Japan’s defense policies - was “unfair” and should be changed. He added he was not thinking of withdrawing from the pact.

 

The remarks, which echo the U.S. leader’s long-held view that Japan is a free rider on defense, came as Washington pushes for faster progress in trade talks.

 

“It’s probably more a matter of putting Abe on the defensive in terms of trade negotiations,” said Daniel Sneider, a lecturer in international policy at Stanford University. He added it was questionable whether such a strategy would work.

 

Abe has long sought to revise the U.S.-drafted, war-renouncing constitution to further legitimize Japan’s military, known as the Self-Defense Forces (SDF).

 

He has said he wants debate on the topic to be a focal point in a July 21 upper-house election, but constitutional revision is controversial. A Kyodo news agency survey in April showed 47% of Japanese saw no need to weaken the constitution’s pacifist Article 9, while 45% said changes were necessary.

 

Talk of altering the separate security treaty, revised in 1960 by Abe’s grandfather, premier Nobusuke Kishi, could fan voter opposition to changing Article 9, diplomatic experts said.

 

Kishi was forced to step down in the face of a huge public outcry. The treaty was changed to commit the U.S. to defending Japan, but many Japanese worried the pact would suck their country into a wider conflict.

 

“The whole opposition to the revision of the security treaty in 1960 centered on the fact that Japanese didn’t want to be dragged into a war that was not in Japan’s interests,” Sneider said. Trump’s remarks “make what the prime minister is trying to do more difficult, because it makes clear what the implications are.”

 

Abe spent considerable political capital in 2015 to enact laws that stretched the limits of the constitution to allow Japanese troops fight overseas for the first time since 1945.

 

The controversial legislation allowed Japan to defend the United States or another friendly country when attacked, if Japan faced an “existential threat.”

 

EMBOLDENING HAWKS

 

“I have explained since I first met him (Trump) what Japan’s Self-Defense Forces can do under the constitution,” Abe said in a debate on Sunday with other party leaders.

 

Under the decades-old U.S.-Japan security treaty, the United States pledges to defend Japan, which renounced the right to wage war after World War Two. Japan in return provides military bases that Washington uses to project power deep into Asia.

 

Experts say Trump’s remarks could embolden Japanese hardliners eager to bolster Japan’s military in the face of a rising China.

 

“In a way, this was and is what some in Japan have been seeking for so long - a more ‘symmetrical’ alliance,” said Toshihiro Nakayama, Japan fellow at the Wilson Center in Washington. “So for some who are seeking a more robust security role for Japan, this must be good news.”

 

But U.S. military officials may be less willing to change the bedrock of the alliance now.

 

“The professionals at the Pentagon may have a totally different view from Trump,” said a former Japanese diplomat. “They may not want to see Japan increase its military capacity because that would cause concern and anxiety in the region.”

 

Still, Tokyo could take some steps aimed at addressing Trump’s complaints, he added. Those could include boosting Japan’s spending for U.S. military forces stationed in the country as well as buying more American military equipment.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-07-01

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[Tug]

Sure would leave s Korea and Japan exposed to n Korea aggression wonder if Donald is trying to strong arm japan over some deal

[Cryingdick]

There is no need for Japan to lean as much on the USA. World war 2 is over they do not have any need to have constitutional constraints on what type of army they can have. Their probationary period is long over and they can and should take a more active role and defend themselves.

 

Either way NK is the same threat no more no less. They do anything they are obliterated. We don't need the troop presence in Japan or SK that was necessary in past years. Aircraft carriers and submarines hold the ultimate deterrent. 

[Basil B]

34 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

There is no need for Japan to lean as much on the USA. World war 2 is over they do not have any need to have constitutional constraints on what type of army they can have. Their probationary period is long over and they can and should take a more active role and defend themselves.

 

Either way NK is the same threat no more no less. They do anything they are obliterated. We don't need the troop presence in Japan or SK that was necessary in past years. Aircraft carriers and submarines hold the ultimate deterrent. 

Without the treaty America will have no reason to have ships in the area and China will just take over, possibly even invading Japan, there is no love lost between the two nations.

[Cryingdick]

15 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Without the treaty America will have no reason to have ships in the area and China will just take over, possibly even invading Japan, there is no love lost between the two nations.

 

China is the reason we have ships in the area. China won't touch Japan, that's world war 3. All of these treaties are off set by mutually assured destruction. 

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

China is the reason we have ships in the area. China won't touch Japan, that's world war 3. All of these treaties are off set by mutually assured destruction. 

If China seizes an unoccupied Japanese island that it claims it has a "historical" claim to will that start World War 3?  If China seizes some Japanese ships in the vast area China claims as territorial waters will that start World War 3?  If China interferes in Japans elections will that start World War 3?

 

China is much more likely to do these kinds of things, subduing Japan a little at a time, if there is no defense treaty between Japan and the US.

[Cryingdick]

Just now, heybruce said:

If China seizes an unoccupied Japanese island that it claims it has a "historical" claim to will that start World War 3?  If China seizes some Japanese ships in the vast area China claims as territorial waters will that start World War 3?  If China interferes in Japans elections will that start World War 3?

 

China is much more likely to do these kinds of things, subduing Japan a little at a time, if there is no defense treaty between Japan and the US.

 

I was replying to the suggestion that the Chinese would invade Japan. Who gives a crap if they snag some chunk of rock?

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

I was replying to the suggestion that the Chinese would invade Japan. Who gives a crap if they snag some chunk of rock?

You posted "China won't touch Japan".  Seizing territory and ships, and interfering in elections and other internal affairs, is definitely 'touching'.  Subduing Japan is as effective, and much cheaper, than invading.

[usviphotography]

Sounds to me like Trump is giving political cover to Abe to pursue his own favored polices. Abe will be able to push through otherwise controversial changes to the Constitution by characterizing them as reforms necessary to preserve the US-Japanese alliance. Trump is not giving Abe a "headache", he is giving him a political assist. The only ones with the headaches are the Neocons/Globalists who don't want to see Japan build up its own military and are frustrated that Trump is out maneuvering them. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by usviphotography

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, usviphotography said:

Sounds to me like Trump is giving political cover to Abe to pursue his own favored polices. Abe will be able to push through otherwise controversial changes to the Constitution by characterizing them as reforms necessary to preserve the US-Japanese alliance. Trump is not giving Abe a "headache", he is giving him a political assist. The only ones with the headaches are the Neocons/Globalists who don't want to see Japan build up its own military and are frustrated that Trump is out maneuvering them. 

The idea that Trump informs himself, thinks things through, then develops plans to "out maneuver" others is hilarious.

 

When Trump was asked to comment on Putin's statement at the G20 that liberal values are obsolete, he agreed.  Trump clearly didn't know that Putin was referring to the Western liberal values that underpin democracy, he thought Putin was commenting on Trump's vague idea of what a liberal is.  https://www.newsweek.com/trump-criticized-not-knowing-what-western-style-liberalism-when-asked-about-putins-comments-1446654

 

Or perhaps Trump agrees that democracy is obsolete.  That's a disturbing thought.

Edited July 1, 2019 by heybruce

[Cryingdick]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You posted "China won't touch Japan".  Seizing territory and ships, and interfering in elections and other internal affairs, is definitely 'touching'.  Subduing Japan is as effective, and much cheaper, than invading.

 

I meant an invasion. Sorry if you took it out of context. China will never invade the four main islands of Japan. The chunks of useless rocks around Japan have been in dispute with Korea, Russia, and China forever. Let's make what I said clear one more time China will never invade the islands of Honshu, Shikoku, Kyuushu, Hokkaido, Okinawa, Amami-oshima or another ryuukyuu island.

 

Never ever ever. 

[usviphotography]

22 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The idea that Trump informs himself, thinks things through, then develops plans to "out maneuver" others is hilarious.

 

When Trump was asked to comment on Putin's statement at the G20 that liberal values are obsolete, he agreed.  Trump clearly didn't know that Putin was referring to the Western liberal values that underpin democracy, he thought Putin was commenting on Trump's vague idea of what a liberal is.  https://www.newsweek.com/trump-criticized-not-knowing-what-western-style-liberalism-when-asked-about-putins-comments-1446654

 

Or perhaps Trump agrees that democracy is obsolete.  That's a disturbing thought.

 

Trump is confusing nothing. "Western Liberal Values" mean exactly what Trump and Putin imply they mean. The keepers of "Western Liberal Values" have said so much themselves. Anything that goes against the Homosexual Agenda, or Replacement Theory, or whatever else the Globalists support is deemed "anti-liberal". We've seen that in their response to the democratically elected governments of Italy, Poland, Hungary, Austria and various other lesser Eastern European nations. We saw it in their reaction to Brexit and Trump. 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, usviphotography said:

Replacement Theory

"Replacement Theory" is the preserve of White Supremacist extremism. Why are you supporting such a vile ideology?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory

Edited July 1, 2019 by simple1

[user68677878]

10 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

There is no need for Japan to lean as much on the USA. World war 2 is over they do not have any need to have constitutional constraints on what type of army they can have. Their probationary period is long over and they can and should take a more active role and defend themselves.

 

Either way NK is the same threat no more no less. They do anything they are obliterated. We don't need the troop presence in Japan or SK that was necessary in past years. Aircraft carriers and submarines hold the ultimate deterrent. 

The unthought out argument you put forward  would risk ceding security of the Western Pacific to China and potentially spurring a fresh nuclear arms race. Shelter from the so-called U.S. nuclear umbrella has allowed Japan to avoid developing its own arsenal -- a move that would raise tensions in China and the Korean Peninsula, where memories of past Japanese aggression run deep. To get around the constitutional ban, Japan has gradually built up a military it refers to as the Self-Defense Forces and has introduced modern weaponry, much of it purchased from the U.S., with an annual of 5 trillion yen. The loss of U.S. protection, combined with the proximity of nuclear-armed Russia/North Korea and a rapidly growing Chinese military, might be enough to push Japan down the nuclear route. It would also call into question the U.S.’s military commitments to Australia, South Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan and a host of other allies around the world.

And its cheaper for the U.S. to keep its troops in Japan than to bring them home.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, porphyry said:

The unthought out argument you put forward  would risk ceding security of the Western Pacific to China and potentially spurring a fresh nuclear arms race. Shelter from the so-called U.S. nuclear umbrella has allowed Japan to avoid developing its own arsenal -- a move that would raise tensions in China and the Korean Peninsula, where memories of past Japanese aggression run deep. To get around the constitutional ban, Japan has gradually built up a military it refers to as the Self-Defense Forces and has introduced modern weaponry, much of it purchased from the U.S., with an annual of 5 trillion yen. The loss of U.S. protection, combined with the proximity of nuclear-armed Russia/North Korea and a rapidly growing Chinese military, might be enough to push Japan down the nuclear route. It would also call into question the U.S.’s military commitments to Australia, South Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan and a host of other allies around the world.

And its cheaper for the U.S. to keep its troops in Japan than to bring them home.

Thank you.  I was going to reply to Cryingdick's post, but you have done so perfectly.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, usviphotography said:

 

Trump is confusing nothing. "Western Liberal Values" mean exactly what Trump and Putin imply they mean. The keepers of "Western Liberal Values" have said so much themselves. Anything that goes against the Homosexual Agenda, or Replacement Theory, or whatever else the Globalists support is deemed "anti-liberal". We've seen that in their response to the democratically elected governments of Italy, Poland, Hungary, Austria and various other lesser Eastern European nations. We saw it in their reaction to Brexit and Trump. 

Two points:

 

1.  Trump clearly does not understand Western Liberal values, the thinking that underpins democracy and free market capitalism.  I suspect you don't as well.

 

2.  There is no Homosexual Agenda, Replacement Theory is a conspiracy theory promoted by paranoid racists, and globalism underpins the world economy much as Western Liberalism underpins democracy.

 

You are clearly a Putin fan.  Don't transpose Putin's autocratic, repressive, anti-liberal values onto Trump.  Trump isn't a deep enough thinker to handle them.

[blazes]

11 hours ago, Basil B said:

Without the treaty America will have no reason to have ships in the area and China will just take over, possibly even invading Japan, there is no love lost between the two nations.

No reason?????

Have you never heard of South Korea or Taiwan or the Philippines? Guam?

Apparently the US has a few bases in the area....fear not, kind sir, the US has all the excuses it needs to keep operating in the area.

[jany123]

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Under the decades-old U.S.-Japan security treaty, the United States pledges to defend Japan, which renounced the right to wage war after World War Two. Japan in return provides military bases that Washington uses to project power deep into Asia.

Wow... wow wow wow... so one country in the world has renounced the right to wage war.... and now the trump, who some still talk about being deserved of a peace prize, is going to attempt to undermine that treaty.... another treaty... designed for global good, and push japan back into the game of wars... a peace prize my ass!

 

japan is too Asia, what Israel is too the Middle East.... except they simply don’t buy enough bombs.