Rich Indians to the Rescue as Chinese Tourists Shun Thailand

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

4k is a pittance. Most westeners I know are in five figures. But they don't holiday in Thailand anymore, it's now seen as a low quality cheapo destination. Most stay in Europe or opt for new and upcoming places.

When was it not a low quality cheapo destination.  

[FarFlungFalang]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

The peeps I know with the 80,000,000bht teak house live in Lampang.

There is a 50,000,000 Baht teak house out in the middle of some rice paddies here in Ampaa Patiew.Quite surreal it is.

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Everything. Particularly casting aspersions on dear old @DrTuner one of the most erudite and well loved members of this forum. You'd do well to gather up and treasure his pearls of wisdom, rather than flush them down the toilet and dismiss them as c**p! 

If we are we taking a vote?

[petemoss]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

If we are we taking a vote?

Go for it. Do you think that you could run him close? Or are you suggesting that those sentiments apply to me? ????

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

When was it not a low quality cheapo destination.  

There was some exotic quality to it over a decade ago. All gone now. For Westeners it was not truly cheap when you count in the flights. Canary islands & co got the cheap package tours.

 

The cheapos in here are now the Chinese and Indians, both of which act as a heavy duty deterrent for the Westies. They just don't mix.

[petemoss]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The peeps I know with the 80,000,000bht teak house live in Lampang.

Thai guy directly behind me has a large teak house. Also has a modern Western house on the same plot.

 

Rides a Harley, plays in a rock band and does a discerning line in ganja. Jealous moi? Hell yes!

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

If you want to split hairs, those of white European origin. Much the same as the use of the term farang, which for Thais most definitely doesn't include India. In being pedantic, you're missing the whole point. 

Apologies in advance for my next post as it contains pedantisism(new word)and racism.If an India(caucasian) has offspring with a Thai(mongol),the offspring would be considered a mixed race person(new race?),now if I were to make some disparaging remarks about a person of mixed race would I be considered a mixed racist?As the word racist now seems to include religion with people being accused of racism for expressing disparaging remarks about Islam which is praticed by all three "races".Has the meaning of the word "race"lost it's way in the multitude of humanity?

[lamyai3]

16 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Apologies in advance for my next post as it contains pedantisism(new word)and racism.If an India(caucasian) has offspring with a Thai(mongol),the offspring would be considered a mixed race person(new race?)

The word you're after here is pedantry ????

Thai-Indian luk kreung are very common here, with Indian migration dating back to the 19th century. Not sure if there's anything shorter than the hyphenated form above, but I'd recommend not using mongolasian... 

[FarFlungFalang]

24 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The word you're after here is pedantry ????

Thai-Indian luk kreung are very common here, with Indian migration dating back to the 19th century. Not sure if there's anything shorter than the hyphenated form above, but I'd recommend not using mongolasian... 

Thanks for pedantry.If an individual has all three races would he be referred to as caumongasian?Or even asimongcau?

[SoulKid]

7 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I won't quote your whole post out of forum etiquette, but your one sided and highly politicised view of history is way off balance. You'd be better off at least having a chip on both shoulders. 

 

Of course Western colonialists plundered much of the globe in their own interest, this is a matter of historic record. But in India most of the worst excesses happened earlier on, and there was massive investment in the later years of the Raj in terms of medicine, infrastructure, mechanisation and education - these legacies remain part of the fabric of the country today. But did you ever question why places like Singapore and Malaysia are so much more successful than India since independence? It's because they're not hampered with regressive strictures such as the caste system and the archaic religious beliefs which hold the country down. The poverty and injustice seen in modern India is entirely of their own making.

 

Your claims that India was once one of the most advanced cultures in the world is certainly true, but all this proves is that glories of past empires don't travel in a straight line. If this were so, the ancient cultures of Rome, Egypt, Greece etc ought to have led the world in every field, and the culture that invented the wheel would have gone on to invent the motor car. I include the British empire as a culture that has been in decline for a long time - I don't have the same delusions of grandeur you hold about India. To claim the Indians would have invented modern medicine because of ancient Ayurveda, or to boast that India has an excellent education system and is far ahead of the pack in English proficiency without crediting the British for creating and implementing this system is beyond ridiculous. My point is that almost everyone I met while living in India recognised this. 

 

Aside from your absurd nationalism (it's evident you're Indian in spite of your evasiveness on the subject), you come over as pretty articulate when not off on an anti-colonialist and Caucasian hating rant. Get over yourself. 

Reality is often bitter and hard to digest.

India's economy plunged from being the biggest to nothing after colonialism ended. If you really think that India could not have developed to what it is today without the help of British then you are absolutely wrong. It is in fact the other way around. India helped fuel the British trade, helped in fighting their wars, helped give them food and resources and helped in the industrial revolution that brought prosperity to the english empire. It's a well known fact.

Everything the British did in India was only for their sole benefit and not for Indians. Whatever Indians are today is because of their own hard work. The British and Mughals left India after wiping out the Indian education system, medicine, infrastructure, etc. and there was nothing but leftovers from the British rule and that's why Indians had to make use of what was available to move forward.

 

It is foolish to say that ancient Indian economy couldn't have lasted long just like the Romans and the rest plunged into darkness. It's one of the oldest civilization that still continues to live while the rest are in ruins. If the Mughals and the British did not occupy India than it would've been the richest region in the world right now.

The British implemented the English education system and not the entire education system. They did that for the sole purpose of better communication with Indians and not to educate Indians. It is a language and not science. Education can be given in any language. They did the same in a lot of their colonies in around the world and yet only India was the one which was able to sustain the high proficiency level in english till now without their help. The rest are still struggling. Says a lot about the level of intelligence among Indians.

You talk of Singapore and Malaysia, just look at the size of the countries in comparison. You have to be a fool to compare India with those tiny nations which are even smaller than India's capital city Delhi.
I am pretty sure if Malaysia and Singapore had to deal with such huge population then the condition would've been quite similar as the religious and ethnic groups are almost the same.

 

The differences among the ethnic and religious groups were created by the colonialists and not the religion.
It is a fact that India was a very peaceful, forward and progressive country far more than any country in the west before Mughals and British arrived, after which they forced their regressive and orthodoxical religious beliefs into the Indian society that still continues to this day. If you know nothing about the caste system and other religious beliefs that were originally implemented then it's better you should go and learn them first and not hear about them from current generations who know nothing about it but have only seen and suffered from the bad side of it which was created by the colonialists to divide the people and rule over them.

You were very quick to judge my statements and label me as nationalist by thinking that I am Indian so I hate everything related to colonialism and caucasians. By that logic you must be British then trying to justify why the British colonies should thank the empire for everything they are today and also for everything they are not. Wiping out a region's history, culture, people is not something to be proud of. Shows your level of nationalism towards the British empire and pro-colonialism thoughts in this day and age.

 

Just to clear your confusion, I am not Indian but I have spent a lot of time in India almost 20+ years. Being a historian I have met people in India from all walks of life and from all ages and read the history of the country from the beginning. If you really want to know about some place's history then go there, spend some time, read about it and talk to people in that area instead or learning it from half baked facts from other countries education system and talking to millennials. 

Whatever I am talking about is coming from experience and I do not think that nationality matters when it comes to rational arguments. They are based on truths and what the opposite sides make of it.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SoulKid

[DrTuner]

If India was so great and advanced before, how come the Brits were able to take over with ease. Seems to me the former glory belongs in history books somewhere next to Egypt and Rome - ancient history with very little relevance to today.

[FarFlungFalang]

The Brits were able to "take over" India with ease because the Indians allowed it.When the Indians desired an end to British rule they sent them packing with their tails between their legs.One case of British rule was to entice 1700 Indians into a stadium and massacred every one of them to show who was boss!That is how the Brits displayed their progressiveness. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Correction

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Kim J said:

On the flip side some years ago there were two Indian guys staying in a small hotel in Soi Honey, and I found myself in the same bar as them a few times. Given they only drank Johnnie Walker Black label and lots of it, their bar bill was much more than most customers. They were made most welcome by the bar owner and staff alike. They were perfectly civil and friendly and they didn't smell of curry.

I'll see your 2 rich Indians, and raise you 100,000 poor Indians.

[SoulKid]

24 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

If India was so great and advanced before, how come the Brits were able to take over with ease. Seems to me the former glory belongs in history books somewhere next to Egypt and Rome - ancient history with very little relevance to today.

British took over India from the Mughals when it was already weak and struggling from Mughal oppression. Even before the British many from the Europe like Portuguese and Dutch arrived in India and established trade with the country and lived in peace but not the British.

It is fairly easy to take and rule over a peaceful community which does not prefer war and neither participates in it. But does it mean we should glorify the ones who took over and oppressed them. I don't think so.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SoulKid

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, SoulKid said:

British took over India from the Mughals when it was already weak and struggling from Mughal oppression. Even before the British many from the Europe arrived in India and established trade with the country and live in peace but not the British.

If India is such a great place, why do they all want to move to Bradford?

And why are you posting on a Thai expat forum?

Edited July 11, 2019 by BritManToo

[SoulKid]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If India is such a great place, why do they all want to move to Bradford?

And why are you posting on a Thai expat forum?

The same reason why anybody from any country would want to move out and live in another country. The same reason why the British and Europeans went out in search of greener pasture on the other side. The same reason Homo Sapiens ventured out of Africa and settled over the world while wiping out other Human species. What kind of question is this?

I don't think Bradford can handle "all" Indians that you mentioned because there are 1.2 billion of them.

I wonder why all the western people leave all the comforts and lifestyles they built over the years and come to settle in 3rd world countries they all despise so often as full of diseases, poor people and no infrastructure.

 

There are all kinds of people who like a different lifestyle from what they are born into and they go out to live it. But majority doesn't. Only a small percentage move out to other countries.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SoulKid

[zydeco]

7 minutes ago, SoulKid said:

I wonder why all the western people leave all the comforts and lifestyles they built over the years and come to settle in 3rd world countries they all despise so often as full of diseases, poor people and no infrastructure.

Not me. I came to Thailand, not India.

[SoulKid]

3 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Not me. I came to Thailand, not India.

There are more foreigners living in India than all of SEA combined.

Nearly 700K from US alone.

Edited July 11, 2019 by SoulKid

[zydeco]

16 minutes ago, SoulKid said:

There are more foreigners living in India than all of SEA combined.

Nearly 700K from US alone.

Their bad luck.

[Thongkorn]

On 7/8/2019 at 12:32 AM, piewarmer said:

The Thai exchange rate gives poor value to tourists, once the rich Indians have had their one visit they will move on to greener pastures, just like the Chinese. I don't know any Thai who has nice things to say about Indian people, they will feel unwelcome, so I don't expect any long term boom.

Do SOME Thai people have any Nice things to say to anyone these days.

[Thongkorn]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The Brits were able to "take over" India with ease because the Indians allowed it.When the Indians desired an end to British rule they sent them packing with their tails between their legs.One case of British rule was to entice 1700 Indians into a stadium and massacred every one of them to show who was boss!That is how the Brits displayed their progressiveness. 

And when the Brits left they massacred themselves and are still doing it today, They are putting Rockets in space while children cannot find clean drinking water, No proper sanitation , The Law system they have  is what the Brits left them along with a language that Indians can communicate with each other being over 40 odd dialects, Yes India where even today in the 21 Century They worship the Cow and Treat women as Animals,

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, SoulKid said:

You were very quick to judge my statements and label me as nationalist by thinking that I am Indian so I hate everything related to colonialism and caucasians. By that logic you must be British then trying to justify why the British colonies should thank the empire for everything they are today and also for everything they are not. Wiping out a region's history, culture, people is not something to be proud of. Shows your level of nationalism towards the British empire and pro-colonialism thoughts in this day and age.

 

Just to clear your confusion, I am not Indian but I have spent a lot of time in India almost 20+ years. Being a historian I have met people in India from all walks of life and from all ages and read the history of the country from the beginning. If you really want to know about some place's history then go there, spend some time, read about it and talk to people in that area instead or learning it from half baked facts from other countries education system and talking to millennials. 

Whatever I am talking about is coming from experience and I do not think that nationality matters when it comes to rational arguments. They are based on truths and what the opposite sides make of it.

I judge your statements based on what you've said in them, and what I'm reading sounds muddled, biased and resentful. So far you've derided Westerners as oppressors, criminals, pedophiles, thieves, killers, and beggars - if that's not a massive chip on the shoulder I don't know what is. Great detective work btw in deducing I'm British, given I've said so several times in describing my personal experiences with local Indians, including plenty who were still around from the colonial era. I had a landlord there who described the British he knew as a boy as civilised people and very kind to him and his family, but everyone accepted at that time that British rule was on the way out, and the British knew this was inevitable too. In your time in India did you never meet people like that, or did you live in some sort of pseudo-intellectual bubble of Hindu nationalists?

 

It's a matter of historic record that the colonialism under Britain was a kinder affair than it was under the French and other European countries, but I'm certainly no apologist for it - I've already mentioned that I consider the British empire to have been in a state of decline for a long time, but all empires wax and wane in this way. As a self-professed historian (have you published anything so we might judge for ourselves?) you should be well aware that many opinions of history exist - all studying the subject does is give you more facts to do your cherry picking from. You might be a poodle of Shashi Tharoor but there's plenty of other historians who aren't out there demanding reparations. 

 

Nationality doesn't matter sure, but it's reasonable to ask where you're coming from when you've got a hard on for people who died before you were born, and spew vitriol about white tourists in Thailand. Many of your characterisations are way off base, I can't imagine a westerner having that level of self-loathing. In evading the question it's as though you're somehow embarrassed about who you are, so if you don't like being challenged about it, better to lay your cards on the table like everyone else here. 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, SoulKid said:

The same reason why anybody from any country would want to move out and live in another country.

I live here because I don't like the UK.

[CharlieH]

OTT remark and response removed.

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

And when the Brits left they massacred themselves and are still doing it today, They are putting Rockets in space while children cannot find clean drinking water, No proper sanitation , The Law system they have  is what the Brits left them along with a language that Indians can communicate with each other being over 40 odd dialects, Yes India where even today in the 21 Century They worship the Cow and Treat women as Animals,

Does leaving them with a language and a law system justify the massacre the Brits did?Since when has massacre been a part of the English law system?Women are treated like animals all over the world including in western "civilised" countries.

Edited July 11, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Add text

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, DrTuner said:

If India was so great and advanced before, how come the Brits were able to take over with ease. Seems to me the former glory belongs in history books somewhere next to Egypt and Rome - ancient history with very little relevance to today.

The Brits or the Indians?  The Egyptians, Romans and Brits all have a lot in common as colonial masters.  

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Does leaving them with a language and a law system justify the massacre the Brits did?Since when has massacre a part of the English law system?Women are treated like animals all over the world including in western "civilised" countries.

I'm constantly amazed at an education system that would foster such outrageous values as attempting to justify colonialism.  

[FarFlungFalang]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'm constantly amazed at an education system that would foster such outrageous values as attempting to justify colonialism.  

Being Australian I've suffered such an education system,and being an Australian citizen I have to recognise my contribution to colonialism which although it began over 200 years ago we are still practising colonialism today as Australia has no legally binding claim to the land they currently occupy apart from Terra Nullius which says there was nobody there when we arrived.What a sad joke it is.A fair go for all is supposed to be one of the core values of Australians.We wouldn't know a fair go if it hit us in the bloody face.

Edited July 11, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Additional text

[JMSIII]

On 7/7/2019 at 5:19 PM, alfalfa19 said:

I have seen extraordinary racism in thailand towards Indians.  I don't know if it's justified or not, I have little experience with Indians in Thailand.  The ones I meet here in the US seem alright. 

I have to disagree.  Over the last two years I have noticed a change by some hotels staff, to bending over backwards for the Indians with all the big smiles, sawadee ka's with wais, while the westerners get treated very rudely, myself included.

 

I have witnessed numerous different Indian men going off and yelling at Thias, and then getting their way because the Thai gives in.  This includes swearing and name calling...

 

And every Thai girl I had a beer with, or had fun with complained about the Indians always ripping them off.  They say they will pay 1000 baht, but then only give 200-300 for everything.  Or as they are known for, having their buddies waiting in the room, and she has to do them as well without being paid extra.

 

I ask, so why do some many Thai women go with Indian or middle eastern men?  The answer is always the same, no have customers, so have to go with them....

 

I think it would be good for Thailand to lose most European, American tourists for a year or so.  Let them really feel the financial pain from us not coming here.  Then what do you think would happen to bring us back.....    I'm sure a lot of the Thai rudeness would disappear, and our money would go a long ways again....    My two cents.

[BritManToo]

50 minutes ago, SoulKid said:

All is see over the comments here is the self-loathing of westerners and like you said all are spewing vitriol about Indian tourists in Thailand

I certainly loath the UK, but I don't think I'd like India any better.

Not that I've ever been, India VISA costs 10x more for Brits than any other nationality.

Edited July 11, 2019 by BritManToo