Problems at Savannakhet and Border July 2019 Report

[JackThompson]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:53 AM, lkv said:

Yes, I know.

 

I have always said it's an idotic thing, this Elite. Pay them off so that they let you stay. It's like a legal bribe. You are buying the opportunity to breathe Thai air.

... and spend Your Own Money here.

 

On 7/13/2019 at 12:53 AM, lkv said:

 

Which confirms my previous post, they just want money.

 

You think this latest stunt they are trying to pull with local insurance is because they are concerned about the well being of old people?

 

No, they want to milk them for more money. 

But not money "for the country" or for their fellow citizens.  Money For THEM.  And I will bet the "agents" can "fix" the insurance requirement for a laundered-bribe, so the money will go Directly to immigration - not to some insurance-company forcing people to buy "out patient" coverage they don't need.

[KhaoYai]

18 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The system you see you now is the system you will get.

Are you speaking in some form of offical capacity?  Your tone implies some form of 'speaking with authority'? Can you clarify?

[Lovethailandelite]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Really? So what is the purpose of a 12 month Multi Entry Non Immigrant O Visa (based upon marriage to a Thai citizen)?

Short term visits and not for living here. If you want to live here, they expect you to apply for an extension.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

Are you speaking in some form of offical capacity?  Your tone implies some form of 'speaking with authority'? Can you clarify?

I have explained to you how it works. If you doubt what I am telling you, I suggest contacting either the British, French or Chinese Embassy or the MFA in Bangkok for clarification.
It simply is what it is.

[JackThompson]

Re: Elite Visa

 

On 7/13/2019 at 4:32 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Yes they did, that happened in 2011 or later, as that was the year the Democats (lol) tried to stop the whole program and temporary cancled new memberships.

Translation:  "Until they worked out a new scheme for splitting the loot."

[JackThompson]

Too many posts to reply to - so here's the summary w/o all the quoting:

 

Telling people they are being prevented entry because they spent over 180 days in the country (not published anywhere), then putting "Don't have means of financial support" in their passport is dishonest.

 

Claiming those with a track-record of supporting themselves for extended periods in the region and making trips w/o overstay, "Don't have a means of financial support," is even more dishonest.

 

"Tourist" entries require you have your own money to spend, don't work, and don't overstay.  There is no requirement to be "visiting temples," etc.

 

Using a reason for denial-of-entry that could be applied to anyone attempting entry with visa or extension - absent any evidence it is true, nor allowing the entrant to prove otherwise, and in spite of meeting the financial-qualifications many visas require - means None Of Us Are Safe entering the country w/o Citizenship or Permanent Residency.  It's just a matter of when they "get around" to extortion from your group/class of visa/extension (if they haven't already).

 

There is no definition of "Living in the Country" as defined by time in/out of the country.  Many people have reported being denied-entry with long periods out of the country - or w/o reaching 180 days - or traveling in/out on work-rotation  - or coming here 5 mo/yr as snowbirds.  Therefore, they are NOT only targeting people "Living Here" full-time.

 

They don't pass a new law/order, because their bosses up the chain don't want to do so.  They've done it recently (2x land-border entries / calendar-year), but they don't for "here too long before."  This activity is being driven by people on lower-levels - why it varies "by entry point."

 

They are not "making it hard on people" because some "other people" are following the laws / rules as Published which allow them to legally "stay here too much" (undefined).  They are hurting people who are not lining their pockets, but fit a profile of those who could be coerced into doing so, evidenced by spending more time in Thailand, if pushed into another means of stay.  ED, Retirement, Marriage, Work, Volunteer - all involve a high probability of bribes to immigration to avoid "problems."

 

Immigration hate "above the table" extensions of stay and visas, which don't involve payoffs - so if you are "doing it the right way," YOU are the one making them angry and lashing out at random visitors.  The more people NOT paying bribes, the more angry they get.

 

I spoke to someone recently who flew in on a Non-B Visa (Single Entry) from a SE Asian country (citizen there), and was told to pay 2000 Baht or be denied entry.  They negotiated the payoff down to 1000 Baht.  Entry points, offices - same, same - corrupt, corrupt.

 

If these entry-point bosses are concerned about "controlling numbers" - rather than acting for corruption - that is even worse.  Reducing the "numbers" of self-funded foreigners in Thailand directly harms the better-paying work-opportunities of Thais which are provided by Westerners spending money here.  The fact is, the only numbers they are interested in "controlling" - are those not paying them off, who they think "should" be doing so.

Edited July 18, 2019 by JackThompson

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Really? So what is the purpose of a 12 month Multi Entry Non Immigrant O Visa (based upon marriage to a Thai citizen)?

To make multiple visits to your wife during the course of 12 months.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It simply is what it is.

And what will it be tomorrow, and the day after that????

[Lovethailandelite]

19 minutes ago, Leaver said:

And what will it be tomorrow, and the day after that????

I don't know. You would need to contact those that are running the country and ask them.

[Leaver]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

I don't know. You would need to contact those that are running the country and ask them.

Sure, and as they are only looking after themselves, I guess that leaves farang a sh*t out of luck. 

[elliss]

On 7/13/2019 at 5:41 AM, elviajero said:

 

We are visitors visiting for various reasons, tourism is just one ‘specific’ reason.

 

       Visitors really, i bought  a house  , for my darling, and myself to live in.

          Happy ever after for ever , and ever .

               Thailand is now my homeland , visa permitting .

                Please dont call me another stupid farlang , the truth hurts ...

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by elliss

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Short term visits and not for living here. If you want to live here, they expect you to apply for an extension.

I have every intention of doing so. However, there are some, such as offshore workers and, as I raised in another thread, a friend of mine who works in Iraq, for whom this is going to create major hardship.

 

When he can no longer get a multi o from places like Savannakhet he will have to return to the UK 4 times per year to get a single entry visa unless changes are made. He is not a resident in Iraq, he only works there so he cannot even go to Jordan for a single entry. So he will be faced with Iraq-UK, UK - Thailand, Thailand - Iraq every rotation. He cannot go for an extension due to having to apply within the last 15 days of a current O visa and then wait 30 days whilst his application is under consideration. His rotation is 60 days on, 28 days off - it won't work for him. Plus he'd have to do that every year.

 

I used to be in a similar position but both me and my mate were both warned to stop entering on 30 day exemptioms and get Multi Entry O's because a). visiting your wife is not classed as tourism and b). of the amount of entries we were making.

 

Having checked on how other countries apply their visa application eligibility it seems that some will allow applications from any country that you have entered legally. That seems a much better policy and would allow people like my friend and genuine tourists to obtain their correct visas.

 

I fully understand why Thailand wishes to only have people staying on the correct visa but remain hopeful that the Thai authorities will realise that their efforts to stop 'visa running' etc. have also caught up some genuine people and iron out these 'bugs in the system. As I said before, its pretty easy to see who is and who is not, abusing the system.

[elliss]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Are you speaking in some form of offical capacity?  Your tone implies some form of 'speaking with authority'? Can you clarify?

 

     Immi O ... 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by elliss

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

To make multiple visits to your wife during the course of 12 months.

Precisely, so maybe now Lovethailandelite can see that its not only the bad guys are going to be caused hardship.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, elliss said:

 

     Immi O ...?

 

 

No. I am simply explaining how E visa works.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, KhaoYai said:

Precisely, so maybe now Lovethailandelite can see that its not only the bad guys are going to be caused hardship.

Of course it effects the good guys. Much like the price of car insurance. The good guys pay for the uninsured and bad drivers. E visa isn't an invention of mine and doesn't discriminate. Complaining and worrying about who it may or may not effect isn't going to change it. It is up and operating and the plan is to roll it out worldwide. When that occurs, only immigration and the MFA know. Next week, next month, next year? Only they know.

[Leaver]

29 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

       Visitors really, i bought  a house  , for my darling, and myself to live in.

          Happy ever after for ever , and ever .

               Thailand is now my homeland , visa permitting .

                Please dont call me another stupid farlang , the truth hurts ...

 

 

 

Sorry to tell you, that little sticker you have in your passport, doesn't give you any more rights than someone flying into Thailand for their first time, on a 30 day visa exempt stamp. 

 

You can have 10 houses here, so can someone on a 30 day visa exempt stamp. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Leaver

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Many people have reported being denied-entry with long periods out of the country - or w/o reaching 180 days - or traveling in/out on work-rotation 

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen to me but I worry every time I enter.  I work 8 weeks and visit for 2 weeks. Currently on almost back to back METV's.  I have a house, motorbike and other connections in Thailand. I may not spend billions but the local builders, restaurants, bars, shops and clubs certainly benefit from my visits - over a million last year and there are thousands like me.

 

I've asked the question at Thai immigration - will I be OK next time? - on at least 3 occasions and been told I'll be OK because I leave for 8 weeks. 

 

I still worry though - especially in the current climate. I've even changed my flight times, I now arrive on Monday mornings in order that I can call my lawyer if I do have problems.

Edited July 18, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen to me but I worry every time I enter.  I work 8 weeks and visit for 2 weeks. Currently on almost back to back METV's.  I have a house, motorbike and other connections in Thailand. I may not spend billions but the local builders, restaurants, bars, shops and clubs certainly benefit from my visits - over a million last year and there are thousands like me.

 

I've asked the question at Thai immigration - will I be OK next time? - on at least 3 occasions and been told I'll be OK because I leave for 8 weeks. 

 

I still worry though - especially in the current climate. I've even changed my flight times, I now arrive on Monday mornings in order that I can call my lawyer if I do have problems.

What is your Plan B?

 

You should have one, because regardless of what Immigration, and your lawyer, says to you, the time is coming when you will need to call on your Plan B. 

 

Just telling you it's not if, just when. 

[KhaoYai]

11 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Of course it effects the good guys. Much like the price of car insurance. The good guys pay for the uninsured and bad drivers.

Oh I see, that's a bit of a U-Turn, you previously said 'The only people it causes hardship too are those using visas for a purpose they were never designed for.'

 

13 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Complaining and worrying about who it may or may not effect isn't going to change it.

Sorry, I don't agree - doing nothing certainly won't change it. Pointing out to the Thai authorities that some 'good guys' are getting caught up in this might possibly produce a result.

 

Please don't hit me with the 'we are farangs, we have no rights' crap in reply. I've heard that so many times but my experience is different. I wonder just how many of the people that complain on here ever actually do anything about it.

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What is your Plan B?

 

You should have one, because regardless of what Immigration, and your lawyer, says to you, the time is coming when you will need to call on your Plan B. 

 

Just telling you it's not if, just when. 

Don't agree but no point arguing about it - who is right and who is wrong will become clear if and when it happens.

 

For now, I make sure I have 20K with me and evidence of my UK employment. I ain't signing any paper that says I don't have the funds to support myself.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, KhaoYai said:

Oh I see, that's a bit of a U-Turn, you previously said 'The only people it causes hardship too are those using visas for a purpose they were never designed for.'

 

Sorry, I don't agree - doing nothing certainly won't change it. Pointing out to the Thai authorities that some 'good guys' are getting caught up in this might possibly produce a result.

 

Please don't hit me with the 'we are farangs, we have no rights' crap in reply. I've heard that so many times but my experience is different. I wonder just how many of the people that complain on here ever actually do anything about it.

No U turn at all. I am not saying they are bad people and they can still get visas. They will simply need get extensions or get another single entry. Once again, nothing you say or do will effect whether and when E visa will come in to the region. But as I said before, feel free to take it up with those in command. 
Oh, and you may want to have a scout through some of the Facebook groups regarding Savannaket today if your in any doubt. It's a bit of an eye opener.

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Don't agree but no point arguing about it - who is right and who is wrong will become clear if and when it happens.

I didn't ask if you agree, or not, and I am not arguing.  There are no rights, and wrongs, because it depends on each IO and each boarder crossing, as ridiculous as that is.

 

When it happens, and it will happen, what is your plan?  You should have one.

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

No U turn at all. I am not saying they are bad people and they can still get visas. They will simply need get extensions or get another single entry.

Just a moment, you said 'The only people it causes hardship too are those using visas for a purpose they were never designed for.'

 

I have already explained the position of my friend but I'm sure he is not alone. He cannot get an extension due to the time constraints and having to travel to the UK 4 times per year to get a single entry visa is certainly a 'hardship' in terms of both cash and time.

 

You were either wrong originally or you have made a U-turn.

 

The Thai authorities don't have to make massive changes to sort this out, in cases like my mate's, all they have to do is allow those married to a Thai and working in a country but not necessarily resident, to be able to apply for visas there. Of course, allowing such people to obtain a 12 month multi would be even better.

[lkv]

29 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I work 8 weeks and visit for 2 weeks. Currently on almost back to back METV's. 

8 weeks out and 2 weeks in????

 

You should be using Visa Exempt.

 

Seriously.

 

 

[KhaoYai]

21 minutes ago, Leaver said:

When it happens, and it will happen, what is your plan?  You should have one.

Already explained that. If it happens and I've never said it won't, I'll fight it at the time. I may or may not be successful. Being out of the country for 8 weeks should make it pretty clear that I am not working in Thailand.

 

I am not denying that refusal are happening, I'm simply saying that genuine people are getting caught up in the attempts to stop visa runners etc.

 

I remain in agreement that people should have the correct visa to visit Thailand and that those effectively 'living in Thailand' on tourist visas etc. are wrong to do so - possibly causing the problems for the 'good guys'.

 

However, there have been some pretty strong arguments from several members here recently that make the case of the 'visa runners'. I doubt the vast majority of them do any harm to Thailand and there is no doubting that they make a contribution to the country's economy.  Then again, there is evidence that a significant 'black economy' exists in some of the more popular ex pat locations and a number of foreigners are involved in that.

[KhaoYai]

30 minutes ago, lkv said:

8 weeks out and 2 weeks in????

 

You should be using Visa Exempt.

 

Seriously

No, I've already been warned on that. I was warned when I was married and told to get a Non O or I wouldn't be allowed in again. I'm no longer married and considering the amount of denials I've seen in the last couple of years, I got a METV.

 

There's no way I want to arrive at Suvarnabhumi and be refused simply because I have made too many visa exempts.

Edited July 18, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

52 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Oh, and you may want to have a scout through some of the Facebook groups regarding Savannaket today if your in any doubt. It's a bit of an eye opener.

You must be better at searching on Facebook than I am - I did find one and I agree, it is worrying.

 

Again, I have never said that problems are not happening, all I've said is that the new E-visa system is catching out some genuine applicants and its wrong.

 

Mind you, problems at Savannakhet were a ticking bomb - I'm sure that foreigners are not the only ones who read posts stating that it was an easy point of entry.  Statements on TV and in other places that advertised it as being one place that a Non O based on marriage could be obtained without any financial proof can't have helped.

Edited July 18, 2019 by KhaoYai

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No, I've already been warned on that. I was warned when I was married and told to get a Non O or I wouldn't be allowed in again. I'm no longer married and considering the amount of denials I've seen in the last couple of years, I got a METV.

 

And still, there are plenty of people that do repeated visa exempt entries past the limit of 6. They can override the system.

 

I don't disagree that METV is a more solid option, and yes, it gives less scrutiny and hassle.

 

I think you are way too worried with an METV and your travel patterns. People being grilled are maxing them out 60+30.

Edited July 18, 2019 by lkv

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

To make multiple visits to your wife during the course of 12 months.

Precisely, so maybe now Lovethailandelite can see that its not only the bad guys are going to be caused hardship.

I should have added that they assume the husband lives in his own country between visits to Thailand. 

 

I appreciate the problem O&G workers have if under 50; unfortunately, whenever rules and visas change some lose out. I know I lost and gained over the years when playing the visa game.