Directed To Those Of Us Who Cannot Speak Perfect Thai

[jayjayjayjay]

I may be wrong, but my guess is that as you learn to speak reasonable Thai, you have to start to think the way Thais do and express yourself the way Thais do, and in some respects you have to learn and immerse yourself in the culture. If you don't do this, you will never be able to converse properly. In a great many instances there is no exact translation from English to Thai, (as there would be from one European language to another), and as you start to understand this and translate/speak properly, you will find your desire to 'have a go at people' or speak rudely to them in Thai will dissipate, as it is just not part of normal Thai behaviour, as it may be in the west.

And if you do this, then you will find that you won't want to say the things in Thai that you used to want to say in English, and that you will more laid back and careful in your choice of language - as it is part of the culture to do that. Sure you will still get angry, and sometimes still say angry things, but for the most part, my guess is that if you can really speak Thai to any degree of fluency, you will start to do it the Thai way.

Any thoughts on this from the experts?

As your fluency in the language increases so the frustration levels decrease proportionately also.

in my travels to speak reasonable Thai, I could not agree with this more.... the more you learn, the more you understand the headlight-in-the-eyes syndrome and the better you are armed to deal with it. The simple "yes" becomes meaningless, especially when you can have them explain back to you(in Thai) what you have said.

Speaking the language doesn't always make it any easier, just makes it more fun trying to understand the way Thai's think!!

[ColPyat]

and that you will more laid back and careful in your choice of language - as it is part of the culture to do that.

That then doesn't count for my Thai neighbors in the compound on the right, who beat the shit out of each other at least once a week, while using rather rude language during their arguments. I can remember once how one of them was even stabbed by his cousin.

Sounds like a "peachy" neighborhood.

The neighborhood is not too bad, very mixed, lower to medium middle class, with a few slums around. Very typical Bangkok neighborhood. It's only that my right side neighbors are a pain in the arse, but in some ways entertaining as well. As long as they keep their weekly fights to themselves and don't bother us, i don't mind.

[Neeranam]

But whatever -LEARN EDUCATED THAI... IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN SETTING THE ATMOSPHERE OF RESPECT.

I'd say it's very useful learn slang and taboo as well. Not much use knowing the Queen's English if you're going to live/work in Glasgow, for example. You won't get much respect if you use Royal language to farmers in Sakhon Nakhon, you'll sound like a <deleted>.

[Flysiam]

But whatever -LEARN EDUCATED THAI... IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN SETTING THE ATMOSPHERE OF RESPECT.

I'd say it's very useful learn slang and taboo as well. Not much use knowing the Queen's English if you're going to live/work in Glasgow, for example. You won't get much respect if you use Royal language to farmers in Sakhon Nakhon, you'll sound like a <deleted>.

Learn the slang - sure...but use it? I think it better not to. Respond if you must - but in PROPER Thai. Why wrestle with a pig in the mud....you just get dirty and besides - the pig likes it. Think about it.

[ColPyat]

But whatever -LEARN EDUCATED THAI... IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN SETTING THE ATMOSPHERE OF RESPECT.

I'd say it's very useful learn slang and taboo as well. Not much use knowing the Queen's English if you're going to live/work in Glasgow, for example. You won't get much respect if you use Royal language to farmers in Sakhon Nakhon, you'll sound like a <deleted>.

Learn the slang - sure...but use it? I think it better not to. Respond if you must - but in PROPER Thai. Why wrestle with a pig in the mud....you just get dirty and besides - the pig likes it. Think about it.

If you purposely want to create a distance then proper Thai in a setting that does not warrant it might be useful, such as somebody trying to take the piss in an infringing sort of way.

But if you want to have a amiable and friendly informal relationship, than you should better know which slang how and when to use. Otherwise you will sound like a complete <deleted>, and create through language an automatic distance.

There are nuances, "proper" Thai is very formal, and good for formal situations. But that's a about it. In close friendships nobody uses formal Thai.

[jdinasia]

Your FRIENDS will teach you slang ... over time ... and you had BEST only use it with them

being vulgar in Thai is just stupid ..... all Thais can do it ... but they never do unless teasing with friends or spoiling for a fight!

and remember ... life outside BKK is different than life INSIDE BKK

[Neeranam]

and remember ... life outside BKK is different than life INSIDE BKK

It's not that different - I lived in Bkk for many years, and lived outside for a few years. When I go down to Bangkok now, I end up speaking Isarn more than formal Thai - taxi drivers etc.

If you can speak Thai well, like the average guy on the street I think you'll get what you want more than if you speak formal Thai - depends what you want though. In certain business/social situations, maybe formal Thai helps, but mostly these days English is spoken. Just my experience.

[0Mix1up]

Nice to see some TV members following the 'Thai way' and "cringing ,running away, etc" from someone who has supposedly learned 'Lower class' Thai from a bar girl.

Truely fitting in, wow I'm impressed!

[Neeranam]

I learned Thai in bars - intellectuals, educated and well-spoken Thai people got to bars too.

Nice to see some TV members following the 'Thai way' and "cringing ,running away, etc" from someone who has supposedly learned 'Lower class' Thai from a bar girl.

Truely fitting in, wow I'm impressed!

Right on man!

[garro]

The only useful thing I ever learnt in a bar was not to sit on wet barstools.

I cringe when I hear a farang speak bargirl Thai.

It is intresting to note that BGs do not speak like this when they return home or give up working in the bars.

[jayjayjayjay]

I learned Thai in bars - intellectuals, educated and well-spoken Thai people got to bars too.

Nice to see some TV members following the 'Thai way' and "cringing ,running away, etc" from someone who has supposedly learned 'Lower class' Thai from a bar girl.

Truely fitting in, wow I'm impressed!

Right on man!

So what is Bar girl Thai? I think it's got more to do with the individuals common sense or/and general politeness. When you speak Thai well enough to know the difference, then it's up you to use in appropriate situations. If you want to use a harsh slang with an immigration officer, do so, it does not worry me.. but I know I'll get better service, a smile and leave quicker and happier if I use polite phrasing. It does not matter if there is a bit of southern/isarn/northern dialect at all.

[Mobi]

and remember ... life outside BKK is different than life INSIDE BKK

It's not that different - I lived in Bkk for many years, and lived outside for a few years. When I go down to Bangkok now, I end up speaking Isarn more than formal Thai - taxi drivers etc.

If you can speak Thai well, like the average guy on the street I think you'll get what you want more than if you speak formal Thai - depends what you want though. In certain business/social situations, maybe formal Thai helps, but mostly these days English is spoken. Just my experience.

That's a strange one.

I live 12 kms East of Pattaya - not exactly out in the sticks - and I have yet to find anyone: neighbours, villagers, shopkeepers, staff, tradesmen, whoever; who even speak a smattering of English.

IMHO, and I know others disagree, there were more Thais speaking English 30 years ago than there are today. Even in Bangkok, I find that once you get out of the tourist sector, or away from multi-national or farang run companies, then spoken English by Thais is poor to non- existent.

Even when I come across soemone who speaks passable or good English, I always try my best to converse in Thai, and it is obvious that the Thai is more comfortable, and respects me more if we converse in his/her langauage rather than mine.

And it's all good practice

Edited March 17, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[Neeranam]

In certain business/social situations, maybe formal Thai helps, but mostly these days English is spoken. Just my experience.

That's a strange one.

I live 12 kms East of Pattaya - not exactly out in the sticks - and I have yet to find anyone: neighbours, villagers, shopkeepers, staff, tradesmen, whoever; who even speak a smattering of English.

IMHO, and I know others disagree, there were more Thais speaking English 30 years ago than there are today.

I meant English is usually spoken in business situations, especially in Bkk.

There are much much more kids/youths speaking English these days, IMHO.

When people say they cringe when they hear bar-girl Thai, it could be that when they talk to a bar girl she simplifies her language as they wouldn't understand her i she spoke her natural way.

[Acquiesce]

.

I cringe when I hear a farang speak bargirl Thai.

It is intresting to note that BGs do not speak like this when they return home or give up working in the bars.

I cringe when i see them date or marry them.

[qwertz]

Quote Flysiam: If someone crowds me out or cuts me off - in a word... "No Manners!" (เสียมารยาท) and they backoff real quick. Learn the right thing to say - how to say it - and you will get your point across quite well.......................

My knowledge of Thai is minimal but functional and since I can't read or write it I translate "No Manners!" (เสียมารยาท) as "mai suphap" and it works for me, as not all Thais are the last word in good manners. I rarely have problems communicating, even up country, and I think just about everyone on this board has the intelligence to know that basic good manners are universal and unlikely to offend. If you can back up your rudimentary language skills with polite behaviour, most people will go the extra mile for you, whilst barking at people will guarantee enemies for you anywhere you go.

[Flysiam]

Quote Flysiam: If someone crowds me out or cuts me off - in a word... "No Manners!" (เสียมารยาท) and they backoff real quick. Learn the right thing to say - how to say it - and you will get your point across quite well.......................

My knowledge of Thai is minimal but functional and since I can't read or write it I translate "No Manners!" (เสียมารยาท) as "mai suphap" and it works for me, as not all Thais are the last word in good manners. I rarely have problems communicating, even up country, and I think just about everyone on this board has the intelligence to know that basic good manners are universal and unlikely to offend. If you can back up your rudimentary language skills with polite behaviour, most people will go the extra mile for you, whilst barking at people will guarantee enemies for you anywhere you go.

Sorry - a tad stronger than "mai suphap" and sorry also that I hate to 'romanize' Thai ... prefer to read it. - but for this case I will try. เสียมารยาท is 'sia marayaat' and I have found that it will put someone in their place

[Yamantaka]

I think the best reason to learn Thai is to be able to understand what is being said when people around you believe they can speak in front of you without you understanding them.

Overreacting in Thailand can be as dangerous or more so than in any major city in the world. Violence in Thailand is increasing faster than in the G8 countries., There are many more instances of Thai on farang stabbings and severe beatings than there were five years ago.

I always think it is better to smile and walk away. Remember: "There is a time and a place...." and a useful quote from John Dryden, "Beware the fury of a patient man."

[ColPyat]

Sorry - a tad stronger than "mai suphap" and sorry also that I hate to 'romanize' Thai ... prefer to read it. - but for this case I will try. เสียมารยาท is 'sia marayaat' and I have found that it will put someone in their place

A politely thrown snotty "sia marayaad" is no magic work to defuse every situation. You still need to to proper risk assessment. There are people who only get more aggravated when faced by a farang who tries to teach them manners, but who will have a laugh when faced with the right dose of some unexpected gutter Thai.

People are not the same, what might work for some, will not work for everyone. And what might work in some situations will not work in all.

[lazeeboy]

There have been what I call "moments" when I would have given

A lot to be totally fluent in the Thai language, just to be able to

Tell the person in front of me, who has given bad service, or told an out right lie Etc,

just what I think of them...

I think you get my meaning, this is not meant as a criticism, just an observation

And a personal comment, I am trying to learn Thai, but and here's the point of my post, which is directed to those of us who cannot speak perfect Thai, if you could

Do you think it would get you into big trouble, being able to vent your thoughts

To the person who has in some way made you wish you could speak Thai, My Thai wife is constantly telling me, if I could speak perfect Thai I would get my self into

Big trouble …? Do you think you would too…?

Mumbo

i can understand most thai spoken well 60% my english accent is difficult to under stand when speaking thai by most only people i work with or know me well understand but when in a situation eg 7/11 no have mai me when asking for say bensons and they either laugh or say to the other cashier fallang idiot we replies always got me into trouble so best to just listen and give your abuse in quick cockney english and watch them smile bless them all

[Flysiam]

Sorry - a tad stronger than "mai suphap" and sorry also that I hate to 'romanize' Thai ... prefer to read it. - but for this case I will try. เสียมารยาท is 'sia marayaat' and I have found that it will put someone in their place

A politely thrown snotty "sia marayaad" is no magic work to defuse every situation. You still need to to proper risk assessment. There are people who only get more aggravated when faced by a farang who tries to teach them manners, but who will have a laugh when faced with the right dose of some unexpected gutter Thai.

People are not the same, what might work for some, will not work for everyone. And what might work in some situations will not work in all.

Can you name something that works in EVERY situation.. I think not. You can have your gutter Thai if you like... whatever works for you. People are not the same and you are certainly different than I.

[ColPyat]

Can you name something that works in EVERY situation.. I think not. You can have your gutter Thai if you like... whatever works for you. People are not the same and you are certainly different than I.

Well, i would then not go around here and give advice on potentially dangerous situations that if followed by readers, could get in the wrong situation a person into even more trouble. Snotty "proper" Thai is good for many situations, but during a conflict with the wrong people it can even further aggravate them.

That shouldn't be rocket science.

[canuckamuck]

Our personalities and attitudes can not be hidden with vocabulary. If you act out of impatience, arrogance, or anger, you will get the appropriate response. Part of the price of living here is a daily dose of frustration. Suck it up, and learn from your mistakes. Eventually, those moments become further apart or more avoidable. If you have the patience to continue learning Thai, you should also discover how you can sometimes use foreignness to great advantages. Of course some people are just jerks and there isn’t much help that another language can supply.

It is best to be thought a fool and say nothing than to prove it by speaking. (poorly paraphrased)

[Flysiam]

Can you name something that works in EVERY situation.. I think not. You can have your gutter Thai if you like... whatever works for you. People are not the same and you are certainly different than I.

Well, i would then not go around here and give advice on potentially dangerous situations that if followed by readers, could get in the wrong situation a person into even more trouble. Snotty "proper" Thai is good for many situations, but during a conflict with the wrong people it can even further aggravate them.

That shouldn't be rocket science.

Let me see... though not rocket science... in my 40 years in Thailand I have never been accosted or gotten into a fight or any other altercation when telling someone their manners were not good. In fact, more times than not I am met with a sheepish embarrassed smile and if a group is involved the other members of the group rib the mannerless goof and tease them to the point of where I am embarassed for them. Most just walk away.

I will give advice on things I know and have experience with. It is up to the individual to take or leave any advice given and up to their intelligence to be able to utilize it in the proper situation. You can say anything you want in a 'snotty' way - I never made that insinuation - you did. Decent, proper Thai will win out over cursing or slinging insults in gutter Thai slang IMHO. But if you find you like it ... go for it. That shouldn't be rocket science.

[ColPyat]

Let me see... though not rocket science... in my 40 years in Thailand I have never been accosted or gotten into a fight or any other altercation when telling someone their manners were not good.

Well, i do hope for you that you can continue with that record. Thailand has changed a bit, and still does change tremendously, and in many cases to the worse, unfortunately. Violence a against strangers is increasing, and often is caused by trifles.

If you care to read the thread about road rage here in this forum - i believe that a "sia marayaad" is of very little help if faced by this. Neither would that phrase help with the gun wielding cop in another current thread here.

Every situation needs a different approach. I had situations where slinging insults did work indeed. And i had other situations where being polite was the right approach. And i had situations where i screwed up with either of both approaches.

[Heng]

Gotta agree with both parties on this one. And gutter Thai will get you killed or at least injured more often than proper Thai.... but the latter will get you killed or injured in many situations as well. Being a foreigner will allow you a pass out of many situations but will also make many situations worse as well. It all depends.

[Flysiam]

Let me see... though not rocket science... in my 40 years in Thailand I have never been accosted or gotten into a fight or any other altercation when telling someone their manners were not good.

Well, i do hope for you that you can continue with that record. Thailand has changed a bit, and still does change tremendously, and in many cases to the worse, unfortunately. Violence a against strangers is increasing, and often is caused by trifles.

If you care to read the thread about road rage here in this forum - i believe that a "sia marayaad" is of very little help if faced by this. Neither would that phrase help with the gun wielding cop in another current thread here.

Every situation needs a different approach. I had situations where slinging insults did work indeed. And i had other situations where being polite was the right approach. And i had situations where i screwed up with either of both approaches.

Right

[ColPyat]

Gotta agree with both parties on this one. And gutter Thai will get you killed or at least injured more often than proper Thai.... but the latter will get you killed or injured in many situations as well. Being a foreigner will allow you a pass out of many situations but will also make many situations worse as well. It all depends.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here much is that age plays a role here as well. In my early 20s here i had to face far more trouble than i do now, in my waning years of youth. That may be partially due to becoming calmer, but also because kids tend to listen now more than straight away fronting up.

[qwertz]

Gotta agree with both parties on this one. And gutter Thai will get you killed or at least injured more often than proper Thai.... but the latter will get you killed or injured in many situations as well. Being a foreigner will allow you a pass out of many situations but will also make many situations worse as well. It all depends.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned here much is that age plays a role here as well. In my early 20s here i had to face far more trouble than i do now, in my waning years of youth. That may be partially due to becoming calmer, but also because kids tend to listen now more than straight away fronting up.

I find too that the "Papa" status tends to command a little more respect but it's still a question of personal conduct as I've seen many seniors behaving badly there too.

[Baakwaan]

sia maan yaat

Edited March 18, 2007 by Baakwaan

[qwertz]

sia maan yaat

????????????? Sorry BW, this is too deep for me.

Edited March 18, 2007 by qwertz