International day trip -- is a new TM30 required if returning to existing visa and lease/address?

[retiree]

Does a brief international trip (using a reentry permit, and returning to the same apartment / lease and existing visa) invalidate an existing TM30 filing?

I know that overnight in a Thai hotel does, because they file a new TM30. 

But what about border crossing?   Does my new date of entry invalidate the existing TM30?

--Retiree

[DrJack54]

What's your imm office.

[retiree]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

What's your imm office. 

Chaeng Wattana, which is perusing TM30s closely.  But in theory this could end up affecting even online 90-day reporting, I'd think.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, retiree said:

Chaeng Wattana, which is perusing TM30s closely.  But in theory this could end up affecting even online 90-day reporting, I'd think.

90 day report has nothing to do with tm30.

As for your o/s trip best play it safe and do your tm30 within 24 hours of your return home. You can do it via mail or attend CW. Can be done online but many people having trouble setting up account. 

[Martyp]

Interesting. From what I’ve heard is that CW is more interested in returning from international travel than travel within Thailand. I am currently ignoring travel within Thailand but I plan to file when I return from the US after a September visit. I already have an initial TM30 filed by my landlord a couple of months ago.

[retiree]

2 minutes ago, Martyp said:

From what I’ve heard is that CW is more interested in returning from international travel than travel within Thailand.

I was refused for retirement extension because my original TM30 (filed by my apartment) had been overwritten by an overnight in a Thai hotel, which came up on the computer at CW.

I'm asking the general question on behalf of my building staff -- they have no way of even knowing if a resident has left for a few days, so wouldn't ordinarily re-file.

And yes, we know it's always safest to re-file, but I'm trying to nail down exactly when it's necessary.

-- Retiree

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Interesting. From what I’ve heard is that CW is more interested in returning from international travel than travel within Thailand. I am currently ignoring travel within Thailand but I plan to file when I return from the US after a September visit. I already have an initial TM30 filed by my landlord a couple of months ago.

For what its worth.. I intend to file ONE tm30 after reenter from last trip outside Thailand prior to attending CW for next extension. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by DrJack54

[Martyp]

5 minutes ago, retiree said:

I was refused for retirement extension because my original TM30 (filed by my apartment) had been overwritten by an overnight in a Thai hotel, which came up on the computer at CW.

I'm asking the general question on behalf of my building staff -- they have no way of even knowing if a resident has left for a few days, so wouldn't ordinarily re-file.

And yes, we know it's always safest to re-file, but I'm trying to nail down exactly when it's necessary.

-- Retiree

Thanks. I will keep that in mind. My extension is due for renewal in November. It is unlikely I will be traveling again between my return and filing my application in early October.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Martyp

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, retiree said:

I was refused for retirement extension because my original TM30 (filed by my apartment) had been overwritten by an overnight in a Thai hotel, which came up on the computer at CW.

I'm asking the general question on behalf of my building staff -- they have no way of even knowing if a resident has left for a few days, so wouldn't ordinarily re-file.

And yes, we know it's always safest to re-file, but I'm trying to nail down exactly when it's necessary.

-- Retiree

Short answer is need update your tm30 before attending imm for extensions. imo

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, retiree said:

I was refused for retirement extension because my original TM30 (filed by my apartment) had been overwritten by an overnight in a Thai hotel, which came up on the computer at CW.

I'm asking the general question on behalf of my building staff -- they have no way of even knowing if a resident has left for a few days, so wouldn't ordinarily re-file.

And yes, we know it's always safest to re-file, but I'm trying to nail down exactly when it's necessary.

-- Retiree

So what happened?  Filled out and then got your extension?  How long did the extra work take?

[retiree]

Yes, as reported in this thread from yesterday:

CW retirement extension -- refused because of no TM 30 -- question.

 

[ezzra]

It has to a point with these immigrants lunacy that it is best to do what they want even if we, logicly, don't think it's necessary or make sense, fill one up and lodge it need it or not, just to be on the safe side, and we will wait and see how long it will TAKE THEM to give up on this colossal waste of time and resources... 

[mtls2005]

It may be safe to plan to file a TM30 upon your most recent return from an international trip, prior to having business with Immigration.

 

The duration of the trip is immaterial.

 

For those who wish to adhere to the letter of the law then maybe safest to report after every int'l trip, and any domestic trips where a hotel may have reported you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matzzon]

You should file a new TM30 within 24 hours of return to be on the safe side. Your 90 day report, will go back to day 1 and start counting up to day 90 once you enter.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, retiree said:

Does my new date of entry invalidate the existing TM30?

The short answer is yes.

 

Whenever you leave the country — even with a re-entry permit — your stay ends. When you re-enter you’re given a new stay permit and the address reporting rules kick in as if it were the first time you ever set foot in the country.

[retiree]

Elviajero, just to confirm -- you are talking about the database entry for the TM30, and not the 90-day clock?

And (no disrespect, but got to ask on TV) do you know this for a fact?  

 

I'm trying to avoid creating needless work for my (large) apartment building's staff, and also any arguments in this thread.

It appears that the building gets some legitimate slack on how the reporting rule is enforced if the tenant isn't actually checking in and out, _except_ when the tenant has business with Immigration. 

-- Retiree

 

 

 

 

[WorriedNoodle]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

5 hours ago, retiree said:

Chaeng Wattana, which is perusing TM30s closely.  But in theory this could end up affecting even online 90-day reporting, I'd think.

90 day report has nothing to do with tm30.

The o/p is implying going out the country could ASLO affect the 90 reporting, and of course it does. The 90 day resets to day one on return into country and the TM30 must be resubmitted.

[retiree]

Sigh ... as the o/p I'm sorry I ever mentioned the 90-day report!  

The only thing that is not clear is whether or not leaving the country _even for a few daytime hours_ will invalidate an existing TM30 database entry.

 

If I check into the hotel next door, even for 10 minutes, they file a new TM30 immediately. 

My existing TM30 is invalidated, and has to be re-filed when I get home five minutes later, even though my visa, residence, and date of entry have not changed.

 

But if I wake up Monday morning, fly to Vientiane and back (using a re-entry permit), and go to sleep in my bed on Monday night, is it necessary -- not "safer", but necessary -- to file a new TM30?

Or, is the original TM30 still in the TM30 database (very likely), and still valid -- same visa and address -- even though my date of entry and TM6 are different (a little unclear)? 

--Retiree

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, retiree said:

Elviajero, just to confirm -- you are talking about the database entry for the TM30, and not the 90-day clock?

Yes.

1 hour ago, retiree said:

And (no disrespect, but got to ask on TV) do you know this for a fact?  

Yes. It's written in the immigration act (law).

 

1 hour ago, retiree said:

I'm trying to avoid creating needless work for my (large) apartment building's staff, and also any arguments in this thread.

It appears that the building gets some legitimate slack on how the reporting rule is enforced if the tenant isn't actually checking in and out, _except_ when the tenant has business with Immigration. 

-- Retiree

Until relatively recently CW were not enforcing the TM.30 reports. Now they are, but there is still inconsistency.

 

The law is clear and straightforward. Every time you enter the country a new permit to stay is issued and a TM.30 report should be made at the first place you stay. And during your stay a TM.30 report should be made at every place you stay (they mean overnight) at to track your movements. The rules are the same for tourists or expats.

 

The problem is that the different offices enforce the law differently. I would say that it is best to get your landlord to submit a new TM.30 whenever you return to the country regardless of how long you were out. If they don't you might have problems when you apply for your next extension. Alternatively you could submit a report yourself as the Possessor if you have a formal tenancy. Personally I would get the landlord to do it and make sure you get/keep the receipt.

[Martyp]

32 minutes ago, retiree said:

Sigh ... as the o/p I'm sorry I ever mentioned the 90-day report!  

The only thing that is not clear is whether or not leaving the country _even for a few daytime hours_ will invalidate an existing TM30 database entry.

 

If I check into the hotel next door, even for 10 minutes, they file a new TM30 immediately. 

My existing TM30 is invalidated, and has to be re-filed when I get home five minutes later, even though my visa, residence, and date of entry have not changed.

 

But if I wake up Monday morning, fly to Vientiane and back (using a re-entry permit), and go to sleep in my bed on Monday night, is it necessary -- not "safer", but necessary -- to file a new TM30?

Or, is the original TM30 still in the TM30 database (very likely), and still valid -- same visa and address -- even though my date of entry and TM6 are different (a little unclear)? 

--Retiree

I think you are asking if the TM6 database is connected to the TM30 database. Even if they are not directly connected would the IO check them both when applying for an extension of stay.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Martyp

[sunnyboy2018]

I was out of the country for a couple of months. 24 hours after arrival I went to Jomtien IO and was told not to bother but just return in 90 days. I travel all over Thailand and twice a year leave Thailand but this issue of TM30 or reporting within 24 hours has never been an issue. I have a retirement visa and always return to same address.

[kilt]

39 minutes ago, retiree said:

Sigh ... as the o/p I'm sorry I ever mentioned the 90-day report!  

The only thing that is not clear is whether or not leaving the country _even for a few daytime hours_ will invalidate an existing TM30 database entry.

 

If I check into the hotel next door, even for 10 minutes, they file a new TM30 immediately. 

My existing TM30 is invalidated, and has to be re-filed when I get home five minutes later, even though my visa, residence, and date of entry have not changed.

 

But if I wake up Monday morning, fly to Vientiane and back (using a re-entry permit), and go to sleep in my bed on Monday night, is it necessary -- not "safer", but necessary -- to file a new TM30?

Or, is the original TM30 still in the TM30 database (very likely), and still valid -- same visa and address -- even though my date of entry and TM6 are different (a little unclear)? 

--Retiree

Because you were traveling international you will have a new TM6 Arrival Card in your passport. I know, for me, this is what they look at and compare to latest TM30. You should definitely file a new TM30.

[retiree]

Many thanks for the follow-up, elviajero.   As I mentioned, the building obeys the TM 30 regulation, and will provide a copy of the on-line confirmation.

However, they don't want to hassle guests, or have their staff hassled by guests, for TM 30 updates that the local Thai inspectors are not concerned about, and which won't affect the guest.

The rule going forward will be:  tell tenants to let staff know if they have visa business, and have stayed in a hotel, or reentered the country, since first checking in.

 

Martyp -- I highly doubt these databases are connected. 

But, I think (not sure) that the date of entry is part of the online TM 30 record. 

If that doesn't match the TM 6 date at the time of visa extension, _and_ if this is something that's checked, it would probably cause problems.

And yes! in late-breaking news, kilt just confirmed that it is indeed checked.

 

So, asked and answered; many thanks to all,

--Retiree

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Martyp said:

Interesting. From what I’ve heard is that CW is more interested in returning from international travel than travel within Thailand. I am currently ignoring travel within Thailand but I plan to file when I return from the US after a September visit. I already have an initial TM30 filed by my landlord a couple of months ago.

 

The time you'd probably need/have to file for a domestic Thai trip, with BKK CW as your Immigration office, is if you've stayed at some official legit hotel or similar... Because they've probably done a report on your stay with them. So, you'd need something to get your reported address back to your home one, before your next Immigration office visit.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I was out of the country for a couple of months. 24 hours after arrival I went to Jomtien IO and was told not to bother but just return in 90 days. I travel all over Thailand and twice a year leave Thailand but this issue of TM30 or reporting within 24 hours has never been an issue. I have a retirement visa and always return to same address.

 

It's too bad no one apparently asked the Immigration chief about such things when he gave his public speech the other day...

 

Because if they asked him, he probably would have had to have given about 70+ different answers, i.e., different answers for each of the different Immigration offices that all seem to be interpreting/enforcing (or not) the TM30 requirement in different ways.

 

[Jackie66]

So would it fix the problem of not having a TM.30 if you did a short trip within Thailand lets say a week before extension. Stay in a hotel one or two nights and then do a TM.30 when you return to your condo/house? Or would you still have to pay a fine or have any problems because you did not report before that?

[petedk]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

90 day report has nothing to do with tm30.

As for your o/s trip best play it safe and do your tm30 within 24 hours of your return home. You can do it via mail or attend CW. Can be done online but many people having trouble setting up account. 

I was told by immigration at Chaeng Wattana that they do NOT accept mail reports.

 

I wish they would sort this out and standard the whole process. We (my wife and I) have been waiting 4 weeks for registration approval. 

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, petedk said:

I was told by immigration at Chaeng Wattana that they do NOT accept mail reports.

 

I wish they would sort this out and standard the whole process. We (my wife and I) have been waiting 4 weeks for registration approval. 

There are numerous reports of successful tm30 reports to CW via mail. Note those reports indicate ~3 week wait for receipt.

Sorry...just re read your post. Your referring to 90 day report? Can do that online.

Edited July 26, 2019 by DrJack54

[sunnyboy2018]

7 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

It may be safe to plan to file a TM30 upon your most recent return from an international trip, prior to having business with Immigration.

 

The duration of the trip is immaterial.

 

For those who wish to adhere to the letter of the law then maybe safest to report after every int'l trip, and any domestic trips where a hotel may have reported you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I mentioned before. When I tried to report within 24 hours at Jomtien IO I was told not to bother and come back in 90 days. I returned to the same accommodation on the same extension based on retirement visa. The contradictions arise possibly from, Types of Visa and different immigration offices.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, Jackie66 said:

So would it fix the problem of not having a TM.30 if you did a short trip within Thailand lets say a week before extension. Stay in a hotel one or two nights and then do a TM.30 when you return to your condo/house? Or would you still have to pay a fine or have any problems because you did not report before that?

I thought it was the landlord who paid the fine.