Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[Peterw42]

23 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No they don't, they should but they don't - that is probably one of the things that sparked this issue.  I booked a room through Agoda up in Si Thep in June and I wasn't even asked for my passport. Simply went to reception and was given the keys.

 

Last year I stayed at several hotels including the Miracle Grand Convention Hotel at Don Muang and used my Thai driving licence to check in so no way did they register me - granted that might be changing now.

 

Think about the number of hotels/guest houses in Thailand. If they all comply I guarantee there will be problems. The online system will crash, more staff will be needed because of course, we are talking about Thailand which means hard copies + copies of those copies. Someone will have to file those copies - its a massive task and when they realise what they've let out of the cage there's a good chance this will be scrapped. 

 

There will of course be a MK2 version because they need to know where all us foreign criminals are - not that anyone who is actually up to criminal activity is likely to report their whereabouts.

Hotels not reporting isnt really the issue. Hotels have been reporting for years. Its people staying in houses and condos are causing the problems and fines

 

The online system appears to cope with the demand, so far 50,000,000 reports have been made, 26,000 today

 

[BestB]

19 minutes ago, lkv said:

Is that your proposed line of dialogue?

 

Hotels are breaking the law now, if they were to all comply with the law your servers would crash. Therefore we suggest you abolish TM30.

 

Does that make sense to you?

You seem to be stuck on one aspect of it the tm 30 reporting .

 

this is NOT solely about tm30 reporting but a request for dialogue to general treatment of foreigners by immigration. 

 

Foreigners have never spoken out before regarding all crap we made to go through , this is the first time. If it opens some door for at least some considerations things may change but if it does not, I still believe it may prevent further draconian ideas from being implemented. 

[CGW]

40 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

used my Thai driving licence to check in so no way did they register me -

Your Thai driving licence has PP # on it, they could use to register, I know they have when I used mine.

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

this is NOT solely about tm30 reporting but a request for dialogue to general treatment of foreigners by immigration. 

Sorry. I apologise. I thought it was a petition about TM30 being abolished, not about the emotional hardships of long term foreign visitors.

[DrTuner]

8 minutes ago, BestB said:

Foreigners have never spoken out before regarding all crap we made to go through , this is the first time. 

A few years ago TVF tried to organize an event where we could give questions and they would present them to immigration chief. IIRC the meeting was cancelled shortly before it was to take place and nothing came from it. 

 

EDIT: That was back when I still cared and was researching ways to stay long term. Gave up and heading out now.

 

EDIT2: apparently there was some meeting after all.

 

 

EDIT3: andd....

 

Quote

Immigration never replied as promised to the questions. Apparently because of changes in staff at immigration,

No need for further discussion.

 

[NCC1701A]

from Richard Barrow:

 

"The Bangkok Post ran a story today on the topic “Foreigners want TM30 scrapped”. The Foreign Corespondents Club of Thailand are also putting together a panel to discuss this. Ripples will only become waves if we all work together. Sign the petition here: reform-thai-immigration.com"

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1156132763952541696

[RBOP]

57 minutes ago, schlemmi said:

You can do it by registered mail, and the will return the receipt slip by postal mail. You have to provide a reply envelope with sufficient postage stamp on it.

Yeah right, like that gonna work withing 24 hours. 

[ThaiLawOnline]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Dude look at the response you got,I mean the numbers.I think you are looking at I in a negative way,try looking at it in a positive way you got 38 pages of responses you've raised an issue into the limelight I would say that's a job well done sure people put shit on it that's what we do best around here we take the piss don't get hung up about it just keep flinging the shit back that's what lawyers do,best my advice would be go to the fridge and take a drink of what Chopper Reid would call harden the <deleted> up!Again you've done a bloody terrific job keep going and hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming at you!Keep cool and keep your cool.

 

You are right. We got head of immigration recognising the problem in less than 1 week. We will meet him when we have more signatures. We also know some people in power. We will see. I am just very tired....

[BestB]

12 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

A few years ago TVF tried to organize an event where we could give questions and they would present them to immigration chief. IIRC the meeting was cancelled shortly before it was to take place and nothing came from it. 

 

EDIT: That was back when I still cared and was researching ways to stay long term. Gave up and heading out now.

 

EDIT2: apparently there was some meeting after all.

 

 

EDIT3: andd....

 

 

I recall that event but the difference is back then it was questions and answers not a petition with 10000 people behind it 

[BestB]

14 minutes ago, lkv said:

Sorry. I apologise. I thought it was a petition about TM30 being abolished, not about the emotional hardships of long term foreign visitors.

No need to apologise.  Can just spend a few mins to read the petition before  making pointless debate fixated on 1 tm30

[DrTuner]

10 minutes ago, BestB said:

I recall that event but the difference is back then it was questions and answers not a petition with 10000 people behind it 

First thing I would do as immigration chief would be to get the names who signed the petition so they can check if they are real and living in Thailand.

[Isaanbiker]

I signed the petition, who else did? 

[Isaanbiker]

33 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

from Richard Barrow:

 

"The Bangkok Post ran a story today on the topic “Foreigners want TM30 scrapped”. The Foreign Corespondents Club of Thailand are also putting together a panel to discuss this. Ripples will only become waves if we all work together. Sign the petition here: reform-thai-immigration.com"

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1156132763952541696

Not only Bangkok Post had the news, also German magazines came up with the headline.

 

 

[Fred white]

21 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

First thing I would do as immigration chief would be to get the names who signed the petition so they can check if they are real and living in Thailand.

Most places they do check to make sure the signatures are real

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

Is that your proposed line of dialogue?

 

Hotels are breaking the law now, if they were to all comply with the law your servers would crash. Therefore we suggest you abolish TM30.

 

Does that make sense to you?

Did I say that? You are just being deliberately argumentative. I think I have made it clear in several posts that there is a 'way' of handling things.

[Rimmer]

Troll post and reply removed

[lamyai3]

13 minutes ago, Isaanlawyers said:

You are right. We got head of immigration recognising the problem in less than 1 week. We will meet him when we have more signatures. We also know some people in power. We will see. I am just very tired....

Well done, this is a significant accomplishment. There've been a lot of letters in the Bangkok Post recently complaining about the TM30 law, but this is the first time it's been reported on as a news item (on page 2 iirc). To get the head of immigration officially acknowledging it as a problem rather than blaming foreigners for not following the law is a great sign. I'm sure his comments are not just referring to the problem caused for foreigners, but for his own staff who are buried under insurmountable piles of paperwork and are tasked with something that many of them don't agree with - they've probably been cursing him in recent months for insisting on this enforcement. No one wants to be considered the most reviled boss in the department's history, so he might be hoping for a face saving way out of the problem.

 

I also think the high level of publicity raised by this drive is a cue for some kind of embassy representation and involvement. Once an issue like this has become a public enough problem, it can't really be ignored by them. 

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Hotels not reporting isnt really the issue. Hotels have been reporting for years. Its people staying in houses and condos are causing the problems and fines 

I am aware of that - please understand the context of that comment.

[KhaoYai]

55 minutes ago, CGW said:

Your Thai driving licence has PP # on it, they could use to register, I know they have when I used mine.

Incorrect. They cannot use my driving licence to register TM30. The TM6 arrival number must be quoted to complete the process.

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Did I say that? You are just being deliberately argumentative. I think I have made it clear in several posts that there is a 'way' of handling things.

The petition calls for the abolition of the TM30.

 

Reasons given: massive dowturn in tourism, drop in foreign investment, hardship on married families.

[KhaoYai]

57 minutes ago, lkv said:

Sorry. I apologise. I thought it was a petition about TM30 being abolished, not about the emotional hardships of long term foreign visitors.

Another ridiculous comment.  Some of the more recent rulings and enforcements are making life very difficult for some genuine people who really are no problem to Thailand and some of those have families. So yes, it is entirely possible that some matters may cause emotional hardship - even separation. People have their lives in Thailand, home, family, job and some are very worried about their future.

 

I don't subscribe to the view that 'they don't want us here' - I think they just want us to comply with their laws, as all countries do. What they don't want is arrogant foreigners shouting at them at immigration and in banks as I've heard several times.

 

Yes, things are different in Thailand but its their country, not ours. Only by opening dialogue will the concerns of both sides be heard. Sitting behind your keyboard, complaining about how bad things are on TV will only reach the TV audience - which will achieve nothing. Stop being so bloody negative - at least this group are prepared to try. Other than dis and complain about Thailand, what have you done?

[lkv]

22 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Another ridiculous comment.  Some of the more recent rulings and enforcements are making life very difficult for some genuine people who really are no problem to Thailand and some of those have families. So yes, it is entirely possible that some matters may cause emotional hardship - even separation. People have their lives in Thailand, home, family, job and some are very worried about their future.

 

I don't subscribe to the view that 'they don't want us here' - I think they just want us to comply with their laws, as all countries do. What they don't want is arrogant foreigners shouting at them at immigration and in banks as I've heard several times.

 

Yes, things are different in Thailand but its their country, not ours. Only by opening dialogue will the concerns of both sides be heard. Sitting behind your keyboard, complaining about how bad things are on TV will only reach the TV audience - which will achieve nothing. Stop being so bloody negative - at least this group are prepared to try. Other than dis and complain about Thailand, what have you done?

Keeping it real.

 

After "winning" the elections, the ties with China have become even closer than they were.

 

This is a copy of what China is doing.

 

It has been made very clear that anybody that does not comply with TM30 will be arrested.

 

You are petitioning a military regime.

 

TM30 will not be scraped. Best you can hope for is more convenience in reporting.

 

They will not negotiate anything, and crush any form of dissent.

 

You can hope for a change in laws maybe with the next government, when or if it happens, and if it's more foreigner friendly.

[NCC1701A]

my cat wanted to sign if it mean more canned tuna but i explained to her that she is Thai and it would not help. 

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

You are right. We got head of immigration recognising the problem in less than 1 week. We will meet him when we have more signatures. We also know some people in power. We will see. I am just very tired....

Not only that but you are learning some very valuable lessons along the way,each and every person who post took the time to write and express their thoughts even the seemingly negative post may contain helpful insights.Like my brother taught me listen to what people say not how they say it.I think most of posts were trying to help though it may not sound like it,and you might be surprised by who is willing to stand by your side if it's a train heading towards you and Prayuth and his mates are on that train.I also suggest reading Mahatma Ghandi's My Experiments With Truth.Facinating read.

  "You've done a man's job sir" Blade Runner.

[IvorBiggun2]

As I see it this TM 30 is not a farang thing, It only became a farang thing when Thai property owners started getting fined for failure to report. And now they've had a taste of Thai immigration they've decided they don't like it. Welcome to the world farangs live in. The world called, immigration. If us farang can help Somchai with the TM30 problem do you think Somchahi will help farang get rid of TM47 reporting? Nah I didn't think so. It doesn't effect them. 

 

PS. I did sign the petition as one cannot give up hope but I think nothing will come of it. And I'm sure the majority feel the same.

[FarFlungFalang]

5 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

As I see it this TM 30 is not a farang thing, It only became a farang thing when Thai property owners started getting fined for failure to report. And now they've had a taste of Thai immigration they've decided they don't like it. Welcome to the world farangs live in. The world called, immigration. If us farang can help Somchai with the TM30 problem do you think Somchahi will help farang get rid of TM47 reporting? Nah I didn't think so. It doesn't effect them.

It is my understanding that some foreigners are experiencing difficulties renewing extensions to stay because of incomplete reporting of whereabouts and has it somehow become the foreigners responsibility to make sure it is done. 

[IvorBiggun2]

20 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

It is my understanding that some foreigners are experiencing difficulties renewing extensions to stay because of incomplete reporting of whereabouts and has it somehow become the foreigners responsibility to make sure it is done. 

Yep always Johnny Foreigner at fault. Thais do no wrong.  

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, schlemmi said:

Those two files are the related Ministerial law.

MG-2523-6-gemaess-GG-2522.pdf 159.48 kB · 10 downloads MG-2540-22-gemaess-GG-2522.pdf 61.25 kB · 7 downloads

Good job digging these up. Please check the PM which i sent you, i would really like to know how you found these.

We can now at least say under which section exactly retirees are allowed to enter, this is section 34 (15) (4).

These two documents add the following activities to section 34 (15) for which a foreigner can temporarily enter Thailand (my translation might not be 100% accurate, they use quite difficult terms to describe it and i just use easy english terms):

First document:

1. Family of servants of diplomats
2. Married to Thai / having Thai children
3. Working for government organizations

Second document:
4. Retirees
5. Ex Thai citizens
6. Medical
7. Sports trainer / coach
8. Legal matters, witness

[BestB]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

First thing I would do as immigration chief would be to get the names who signed the petition so they can check if they are real and living in Thailand.

highly unlikely he would go through 10 000 names and would be impossible to check without passport number, relying only on the name ????

[BestB]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

my cat wanted to sign if it mean more canned tuna but i explained to her that she is Thai and it would not help. 

i wonder what she had to say in response? cat i mean. ????