EU must change its negotiating terms for Brexit, says Britain's Barclay

[Joinaman]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is not true. The future path of the EC was laid out and documented by members at a meeting in Dec 1969. The UK government, parliament and probably a large number of civil servants would have been fully aware of what had been decided and the path that was to be taken.

It is a brexiteer myth to say that nobody knew where the EC was heading before the UK joined far less by 1975. Having had to endure a state of emergency several times in the space of a few years the population was more than happy for some sort of change, and they confirmed that support in 1975.

But they where not told the truth about the future , were they ?

Ted Heath later admitted we would, the public, would never have allowed entry into the E C if we were told the truth 

Just like now, lied, cheated, kept in the dark about the future of the EU, until its too late for us to stop it 

[cleopatra2]

13 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

so you think they should return to murdering innocent people, just because they might have to stop at a border of another country

Why ??

they can move freely between the two countries , it would mean some simple checks that would not cause any problems and certainly no reason to start murdering people again

And like before, anything illegal will still be smuggled across the border anyway

So why the scaremongering ?

The issue is before the GFA it was contested land.

Part of the GFA negotations required that each gave up their claim .

 

 

[Joinaman]

5 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yeah you can't build anywhere there because it's damn near impossible to get a planning permission from your lovely government, that's the reason.

Most land is not buildable on in the UK, the councils have to decide on releasing more - State/Queen own most land in the UK, a bit like Thailand...

There's also a lack of talent in construction, since the last financial crisis wiped out most small home builders in the UK. Throwing immigrants out will for sure solve this crisis.

 

 

Is contradicting, as EU immigrants are a net plus for the UK NHS - but how would Brits know, right?

NHS budget is coupled to the GDP of the UK, so well, we'll see how that works out in future.

 

... the rest of your text is equally easy to debunk.

 

Prolly from financial licenses all the UK banks will have to get in Europe now as they else lose access to the market.

This is called passporting rights, the bank of england explains it to you: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/prudential-regulation/authorisations/passporting

 

Also no one claims the EU will be better off without the Brits, it's a lose-lose situation, the biggest loser will be the UK tho. It must be really hard for some people to understand.

 

What on earth are you on about?  The green party is rising, it's an eco and leftwing party, it overtook the conservative CDU/CSU by now: https://www.thelocal.de/20190527/surfing-the-zeitgeist-how-the-greens-won-over-germany

You also just avoided a recession, like many countries world wide atm due to ongoing trade wars and brexit bs: https://www.ft.com/content/a6718c64-ac78-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2 

 

 

.... tell us some more fantasies, keep us entertained.

Still waiting for people like you to stop spouting crap opinions and give us the Actual facts 

Do explain, how we will be the losers, how much this will cost, how many job losses, how much in financial terms,  

but also please give us the facts on remaining in the EU, the loss of sovereignty, the actual cost to remain in , how the Lisbon Treaty will benefit us all , what the cost will be in say 5 years time ?

Keep asking remainers these questions, still waiting for answers, apart from bullshit opinions

 

[Joinaman]

EU immagrants are a net worth to the NHS

can you supply the figure for this statement ?

What is the increase in immigrants using the NHS in the last 10 years, what is the cost to the NHS for this

What amount is contributed by immigrants towards the NHS

Please do not include workers in the NHS, just the patients

 

[Joinaman]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The title of this thread says it all about the majority of Brexiteers: "EU must change its negotiating terms for Brexit, says Britain's ."

 

That has been the Brexiteer mantra since the referendum; "The EU must do this, the EU must do that, the EU must do what we tell them to!"

 

Cummings' leave campaign propaganda via his politician puppets told us that we could leave the EU and ditch the responsibilities of membership but still retain all the benefits. Unfortunately enough people were gullible enough to fall for that lie to tip the result narrowly in his favour.

 

The EU doesn't have to do anything, doesn't have to give us anything. The UK has decided to leave, all the EU legally must do is let us. Anything else is negotiable. 

 

The reality is that whilst a no deal Brexit will be bad for both us and the EU, it will be far worse for us. The EU know this, Boris knows this, even Rees-Mogg knows this.

 

The EU have no reason to substantially change the deal they have already agreed to. 

 

Remember, it is not the EU who prevented us from leaving on 29th March; it was Rees-Mogg and his ERG. Now that they have achieved their aim of getting their chosen candidate into number 10 they will support any deal he brings to Parliament. Even though that deal will inevitably be indistinguishable from May's deal in all essentials.

Care to back up this statement about how it will be worse for us

Any figures, facts, costings, losses, profits

Please include figures if we remain in the EU, 

[Joinaman]

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

finally a brexiter with the courage to call it as it is.....thanks and the update as of today is the EU will not open negotiations with BJ because of his approach to the Irish back stop and as they said, nothing new to negotiate, get ready for the bumpy road

But can you explain why the so called "Backstop" is such an issue ?

we , and the EU, even with a hard border, would not be stopping the irish from crossing the border

they would have simple checks, just like when they go on holiday to other countries, so why the problem with having a simple border ?

it , the Good Friday Agreement,states nothing about borders, other than freedom to cross, which they would have, subject to simple checks

and we all know anything not allowed will still be smuggled across, just like the guns and drugs during and after the troubles

[Joinaman]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

If we don't want the EU running our country, we certainly won't let terrorists run it either. Are you saying we should cancel Brexit because of the terrorists, Brits don't think like that.

so you think the Irish will, should, could start murdering again ??

Why ?

They will have simple border checks, just like when they go on holiday, so what is wrong with that 

i don't hear them talking about murdering the Spanish, or the French just cos they have their passport checked and their luggage scanned 

[Loiner]

please, please do and when the NI start the bombings don't come back crying the blues

If there’s any bombing to be done, it will be in Dublin and Brussels. That’s where the border would come from - not London.

[Joinaman]

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

would you be so kind to provide supporting data for such a non sense comment, you really think the EU would allow a no hard border with the UK, if that is/was the case why all the fuss

Would you provide supporting data that shows the Irish will resort to murdering innocent people again, just because they will have simple border/passport checks

They will have freedom to travel between the two countries, subject to simple security checks,  which i believe it states in the Good Friday Agreement

This would be just like they get when the go on holiday, or are they gunna start murdering innocent Spanish.French etc, people for having the audacity to ask for a passport and check for smuggling illegal items

We all know the borders will be on the roads, not on the fields, so smuggling of drugs and guns will still continue, just be a bit harder for them than just driving through the border

[kingdong]

On 8/5/2019 at 8:03 AM, natway09 said:

Untied we stand, divided we fall.

Who does he think he is ? Why should the EU even consider changing terms of reference ?

because they want our money?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

so you think the Irish will, should, could start murdering again ??

Why ?

They will have simple border checks, just like when they go on holiday, so what is wrong with that 

i don't hear them talking about murdering the Spanish, or the French just cos they have their passport checked and their luggage scanned 

I havn't a clue whether the Irish will start murdering again, I hope not, are terrorists trustworthy or predictable, I would have thought not, why are you asking me this?

I was replying to a post that was trying to be controvertial. This is the post I was replying to.

 

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

please, please do and when the NI start the bombings don't come back crying the blues

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Well, supposedly, they just chose to leave. No conditions specified, requested or imposed.

Yep!

 

The only singles market I want to remain in is 'Tinder'.

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you confirm you still want to leave (do or die) because 52% voted for that, correct?

Did maybe 3% or more of the voters change their mind in the last 3 years after realizing what a huge difference it would make to leave the EU?

May presented "her" withdrawal agreement three times and three times it was voted down (for various reasons).

Why not let the people confirm if they still want to leave and under which conditions they want to leave?

 

As far as I see most people made their decision in 2016 based on few and often wrong information. Now people had 3 years to learn in detail about the downsides of leaving the EU. If they still want to leave let them confirm that. It won't take long to organize another referendum.

and project fear wasn,t"wrong information"haven,t seen the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse galloping past my front door yet.

[Joinaman]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Did you watch the full video, Jean Claude Juncker says no.

i think the question to Juncker was

Can we tust you, to which he replied, 

He did not answer the question about the border, only the question, can we trust you?

They, the EU,  HAVE to impose some sort of border to prevent mass smuggling and loss of revenue , even if simple passport checks and random lorry and vehicle checks

 

[candide]

35 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

EU immagrants are a net worth to the NHS

can you supply the figure for this statement ?

What is the increase in immigrants using the NHS in the last 10 years, what is the cost to the NHS for this

What amount is contributed by immigrants towards the NHS

Please do not include workers in the NHS, just the patients

 

This is a complex issue but they likely contribute more as they pay taxes like the others and are usually younger on average than UK citizen.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/

[OneMoreFarang]

55 minutes ago, superal said:

Negotiations with the EU ? bit of a joke I believe , more like my way or no way bully boy ogrish tactics of 27/1 , do not even do that in Thailand . Rab & Davies resignations were brought by the intransigence of the EU and T.M. has proved to be totally useless and a liar with possible conflicts of interest . 

There has been no compromise from the EU , its either take it or leave it .  The whole process appears to have been a shambles , how can there possibly be fair talks when the UK was so outnumbered . To see real unbiased justice would take  independent arbitration as is normal protocol in major disputes . 

Let's pretend for a moment you are right. And let's look at the bright future of the UK outside of the EU.

What do you think will happen when the big US negotiates with the little UK? Or when the huge China negotiates with the tiny UK?

Do you think they will be "fair" and treat the UK like an equal partner? 555

Get real! And then maybe reconsider why it is a good idea to be part of a big strong union and not alone outside of it.

[Joinaman]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think the amazing part is that Boris and that stupid No Deal Brexit still has so many supporters.

Do his supporters watch the news from time to time? 

It's impossible to miss all that information about the BIG crisis coming up if they leave without a deal.

Amazing UK

could you give me the facts in this :crisis " ?

I have kept hearing from remainers about how the world will collapse around us, but never seen and actual facts, just opinions and false statements

Please explain to us simple people exactly what will happen to us, Please include the costs, from each section, each industry . but please also include the facts about staying in the EU , giving the figures, job losses, cost in Monetary terms, payments to the EU, etc to balance the books, so to speak

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, kingdong said:

and project fear wasn,t"wrong information"haven,t seen the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse galloping past my front door yet.

Maybe they are hiding in the dark forest together with all those unicorns.

[Joinaman]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you confirm you still want to leave (do or die) because 52% voted for that, correct?

Did maybe 3% or more of the voters change their mind in the last 3 years after realizing what a huge difference it would make to leave the EU?

May presented "her" withdrawal agreement three times and three times it was voted down (for various reasons).

Why not let the people confirm if they still want to leave and under which conditions they want to leave?

 

As far as I see most people made their decision in 2016 based on few and often wrong information. Now people had 3 years to learn in detail about the downsides of leaving the EU. If they still want to leave let them confirm that. It won't take long to organize another referendum.

ok

lets have another referendum, AFTER we have left the EU

Lets see how it goes for say 3 to 5 years, then if not happy, lets have another referendum on rejoining the EU

BUT, only if we are given the true facts on what remaining entails, what the cost will be in the future, what the losses to our country will be

Maybe leaving will be a big mistake, but so has joining the Common Market and being lied to ever since

[evadgib]

This'll have the Guffaw brigade Chomping at the bit:

International Development Secretary Alok Sharma visit Nigeria in first overseas trip

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

could you give me the facts in this :crisis " ?

I have kept hearing from remainers about how the world will collapse around us, but never seen and actual facts, just opinions and false statements

Please explain to us simple people exactly what will happen to us, Please include the costs, from each section, each industry . but please also include the facts about staying in the EU , giving the figures, job losses, cost in Monetary terms, payments to the EU, etc to balance the books, so to speak

I saw all that information in the news. And a lot of that was from UK government and civil service what they expect will happen. Did you miss all of this? Or did you just somehow think that if you just ignore it and think positive all will be fine?

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

In 2016 the electorate were promised it would be easy and quick to negotiate trade deals once we left. This is now seen to be nonsense.

Would this be because of all the backstabbing, lies, cheating, by the remainers and our pisspot politicians 

If they had just done what they promised, we would have been out by now

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

i think the question to Juncker was

Can we tust you, to which he replied, 

He did not answer the question about the border, only the question, can we trust you?

They, the EU,  HAVE to impose some sort of border to prevent mass smuggling and loss of revenue , even if simple passport checks and random lorry and vehicle checks

 

The gentleman asking the question said "will you give us a clear commitment that the EU will not impose a border, can we trust you" to which Jean C Juncker said Yes.

 

However should you wish to interpret another way especially by picking out a few words of what was said, there is very little I can do about that and nor do I care.

[ThomasThBKK]

EU immagrants are a net worth to the NHS
can you supply the figure for this statement ?
What is the increase in immigrants using the NHS in the last 10 years, what is the cost to the NHS for this
What amount is contributed by immigrants towards the NHS
Please do not include workers in the NHS, just the patients
 

http://www.cream-migration.org/files/FiscalEJ.pdf


"Please do not include workers in the NHS, just the patients"

Why? Because 5 percent of thr NHS are immigrants and that fits your narrative even less? [emoji848]

Go back to your barstool discussions.



Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[ThomasThBKK]

Still waiting for people like you to stop spouting crap opinions and give us the Actual facts 
Do explain, how we will be the losers, how much this will cost, how many job losses, how much in financial terms,  
but also please give us the facts on remaining in the EU, the loss of sovereignty, the actual cost to remain in , how the Lisbon Treaty will benefit us all , what the cost will be in say 5 years time ?
Keep asking remainers these questions, still waiting for answers, apart from bullshit opinions
 

How about you educate yourself, maybe go back to school?

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So what do you think about peace at that Irish "border"?

Do you think that is important? Or do you just don't care?

Or do you think there can be a border and nothing will change. Everybody will live peacefully?

 

Personally I don't care if the UK leaves and if they want to leave without a deal they should do it.

But it's like seeing a neighbor pointing a gun at his own foot. It's fair to warn him that if he pulls the trigger he won't like it.

Are you Irish ? IRA ?

if not why should the border be any problem

Free movement will still be allowed, subject to normal security arrangements, as i believe it states in the Good Friday Agreement

Could you explain why you or any Irish person could justify murdering innocent people, just because you have to show a passport to enter another country, and with the possible check for smuggled goods ?

Are you advocating murdering people in other countries because you have to show your passport and sometimes have your bags inspected ?

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

ok

lets have another referendum, AFTER we have left the EU

Lets see how it goes for say 3 to 5 years, then if not happy, lets have another referendum on rejoining the EU

BUT, only if we are given the true facts on what remaining entails, what the cost will be in the future, what the losses to our country will be

Maybe leaving will be a big mistake, but so has joining the Common Market and being lied to ever since

Sure you could do that. And maybe this is what will happen.

But do you really think things will be better in the UK outside of the EU and possibly without a deal?

Leaving the EU and maybe joining it later again will be a huge amount of work and huge cost.

And it is unlikely the EU will accept the UK again in a few years with all the special conditions which they have now.

 

Recently we have lots of posts here on TV about people who moved to Thailand only to find out a year or two later that was a bad decision for them. So they moved back again. I am sure that was a lot of work for many of those people. And I am sure most of them thought that in the hindsight they should have thought more in detail if they should move to Thailand.

The principle is the same with the UK and the EU. Yes, you can make a decision and in a few years another decision. But why not think about the initial decision a little harder and in detail and think again if it is a good decision. That is in the long run a lot smarter than leaving and maybe joining again.

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

The issue is before the GFA it was contested land.

Part of the GFA negotations required that each gave up their claim .

 

 

Who gives up their claim ?

The EU? 

Only an idiot can think you can have open borders between two countries, with no checks , and i dont think the Irish are that stupid

And certainly no reason to start murdering again

But Ireland, and the EU have stated, no borders, so no problem is there ?

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I don't think that any government could keep up with the rate of immigration in recent years in terms of reasonable housing supply and standards. Building millions more houses will damage the environment and create even greater problems with infrastructure and social services. It is time to critically revue possible land use for the future and to step back and repair what there is already. 

Thank you for replying. I couldn't be bothered.

[Joinaman]

27 minutes ago, candide said:

This is a complex issue but they likely contribute more as they pay taxes like the others and are usually younger on average than UK citizen.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/

But could you also include all the other benefits they receive, like benefits housing allowances, child allowance, etc, 

I know many people from places like Poland who work hard, have good jobs and pay their way, but many of these complain of the "leeches " from their own country who take and not give back

I don't think it will ever happen, but would be good if we could reduce the amount of immigrants living in the UK. which in turn would reduce the stress on our health service and housing stock. maybe go to using a points system like the Australians,