Divorce and Custody

[Nevalern]

Hi all,  Looking for a miracle but from my research so far I think I'm pissing in the wind. There is a lot of history to this but don't want to bore anyone unless they want or need to know in relation to helping me. I am an Australian who has a Wife( habitual liar) of 3 years 9 months. She left me and my daughter on the 7th May. I wouldn't let her take my daughter under  Thai Fathers rights. She agreed that my daughter stay with me with her getting her 3 days a week. My daughter and I moved into a condo and things were starting to improve. 4 weeks ago her attitude and demeanor changed into nastiness. She is demanding my daughter.  The people she works for have been helping her and seem to be behind her motivation. We had no property just 2 bikes and household furniture. I gave her 90% of furniture and 1 bike that was debt free and i took the bike with money still owing. Bikes were in her name as it was easier. She stole my bike last week and there is nothing I can do about it. She is threatening me with immigration and deportation as I have since found out I have a visa problem. In the 4 years we were together she hasn't contributed anything financially. She got a job 7months ago but never brought home any salary because she was getting her boss to hold it for a trip to Japan in September with them. She also has 2 children down south who she is not allowed to see, for some reason that Ive never been able to clarify. I wasn't told about these until after we married.  They weren't married. When I gave her money to send for them she spent it on herself. I am so concerned about my daughter as I know the novelty will wear off on her soon. Can the Aus. embassy help me? I don't have a lot of money and worked 7 days a week to support us while she sat on her ass. I dont want to leave my daughter but fear its a sure thing. Her parents agree that my daughter should come with me back to Australia as it would be better for her in the future. I know this is same same but different and don't need to be told Im a fool as I already knpw. Hoping as I said someone might know a miracle......

[BritManToo]

Run and hide, while you're married she has no right to the daughter.

But if she grabs the kid and runs, equally, you will have no right to the daughter.

 

In Thailand possession is what counts.

Nobody will help you, this is between you and her.

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[Matzzon]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Run and hide, while you're married she has no right to the daughter.

But if she grabs the kid and runs, equally, you will have no right to the daughter.

 

In Thailand possession is what counts.

Nobody will help you, this is between you and her.

Please clarify your statement? How can she as a Thai mother not have any rights to her child, unless a court order is made that gives the father sole coustody?

Your statement is same like saying. I robbed the bank, and in possession of the money. Now they are rightfully yours. That´s what counts so nobody can take it away from you. Really?

Go read the facts instead.

[Matzzon]

36 minutes ago, Nevalern said:

She also has 2 children down south who she is not allowed to see, for some reason that Ive never been able to clarify.

I think your big chance for getting out on top of this, is to find out the reason for not beeing allowed. If that is not another smoke screen and lie and the real reason is that she abandoned them instead. 

However, you should get more into that and see what you can find.

Regarding the bike she also took because that one stands in her name, is not at all any right she have. If the bikes are bought during the time you have been married they are supposed to be seen as maritial possessions, which in a separation or divorce will give you the right to one of them. Especially when she have gotten 90% of everything else also.

What you will need to fight this will also be a fairly good lawyer, and all history if it is so bad as oyu say will be of help to get full custody, but it will not be easy and there are no guarantees.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Please clarify your statement? How can she as a Thai mother not have any rights to her child, unless a court order is made that gives the father sole coustody?

Thai law recognises the equal right of either married parent to possess their child.

Without a divorce and a subsequent custody order, either parent can legally take and possess the child.

Essentially, whoever grabs the kid first can keep her. Thailand doesn't do custody orders when the parents are still married. Usually the male foreigner tries to be fair, which results in mom grabbing the kid and hiding her with family in deepest Issan.

Which is a losing strategy, for dad, because in three years time, the kid won't even remember dad.

 

It's absolutely clear, and what you or I think of that law bears no relevance.

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

If the bikes are bought during the time you have been married they are supposed to be seen as maritial possessions,

There has been no divorce, that's probably three years away

They are still married, there is no division of assets until the divorce.

Whoever has it can keep it, until a divorce court says different.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[Nevalern]

This why I don't want to divorce and let it drag out so I can come back and fight for my daughter legally. Can I grant temporary guardianship to a Thai family I know until I can sort out visa issues. For this I must leave the countr. Mattzon in regards to bikes before divorce she can sell them both. Yes

 

[Matzzon]

53 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thai law recognises the equal right of either married parent to possess their child.

Without a divorce and a subsequent custody order, either parent can legally take and possess the child.

Essentially, whoever grabs the kid first can keep her. Thailand doesn't do custody orders when the parents are still married. Usually the male foreigner tries to be fair, which results in mom grabbing the kid and hiding her with family in deepest Issan.

Which is a losing strategy, for dad, because in three years time, the kid won't even remember dad.

 

It's absolutely clear, and what you or I think of that law bears no relevance.

In your mind it´s perfectly clear. If they were married before or immediately after the child was born, the father have legal parental rights. Regarding custody, the mother still has the strongest card unless a court order says different. And yes, Thailand do custody order when parents are still married.

[Nevalern]

2 hours ago, Matzzon said:

I think your big chance for getting out on top of this, is to find out the reason for not beeing allowed. If that is not another smoke screen and lie and the real reason is that she abandoned them instead. 

However, you should get more into that and see what you can find.

Regarding the bike she also took because that one stands in her name, is not at all any right she have. If the bikes are bought during the time you have been married they are supposed to be seen as maritial possessions, which in a separation or divorce will give you the right to one of them. Especially when she have gotten 90% of everything else also.

What you will need to fight this will also be a fairly good lawyer, and all history if it is so bad as oyu say will be of help to get full custody, but it will not be easy and there are no guarantees.

If I was to move to another province without telling wife am I breaking the law? 

[Nevalern]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

There has been no divorce, that's probably three years away

They are still married, there is no division of assets until the divorce.

Whoever has it can keep it, until a divorce court says different.

 

I have paid for everything as she didn't work, until recently when she got a job but hasn't brought anything home or paid any bills. 

[Matzzon]

6 hours ago, Nevalern said:

If I was to move to another province without telling wife am I breaking the law? 

Both yes and know. Without a specific court order stating you a higher level of perental rights, she will still be seen as natural higher level in the Thai justice system. As for marriage and both parents having custodian rights, that would in the eyes of the law be seen as shared custody. In that case both should work out an agreed system for the childs best. If you go to another province without informing, that is something the mother can use as an advantage in a court case against you.

However, If the police and the justice system will do anything about it, is not at all sure. At the same time she left/abandoned children before, so what says she will not just give up this time too?

[sotonowl]

Sounds like an attempt for a cash settlement, ask her how much she wants and negotiate her down.

[sunnyboy2018]

An unfortunate story I have heard too often. A cautionary tale. You need good legal advice.  I am sorry but I have only heard of the foreigner getting custody in exchange for millions of baht  villas and cars and only when the Thai wife was getting remarried and did not want the kids impeding the new relationship.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Both yes and know. Without a specific court order stating you a higher level of perental rights, she will still be seen as natural higher level in the Thai justice system. As for marriage and both parents having custodian rights, that would in the eyes of the law be seen as shared custody. In that case both should work out an agreed system for the childs best. If you go to another province without informing, that is something the mother can use as an advantage in a court case against you.

Pure BS.

Thais have no concerns about snatching and running, because there's no penalty for doing it.

Story where a Thai Lakorn actress did it last week and ran to Phuket, then her Russian husband hired thugs to snatch back.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[amykat]

2 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

An unfortunate story I have heard too often. A cautionary tale. You need good legal advice.  I am sorry but I have only heard of the foreigner getting custody in exchange for millions of baht  villas and cars and only when the Thai wife was getting remarried and did not want the kids impeding the new relationship.

That's not true.  A woman like her might try to get as much as she can, sure, but she already got most of what he has.  She probably sold the paid off bike, is driving the other one.  Living with furniture or sold it if she doesn’t need it.  Stock piled her wages she made for several months while she had affair with another guy and plotted to leave.  

 

Now the kid, she doesn’t want it, that is sure!!  But she has to pretend that she does and try to get some money in exchange.  The OP doesn’t have much living in Thailand does he? So now what?  Well keep him around and keep sucking small amounts for years, use him for emergencies, etc?  

 

I would find a way to get help from back home, don’t let her know, and buy her off, but pretend you aren’t interested ....and get the hell out of here.  No emotion, lowball her every time, talk shit, say you can just make another kid cheaper, take lessons from BritManToo, it will be a psychological game you have to win.  Don’t let her get possession in the meantime.

[Matzzon]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Pure BS.

Thais have no concerns about snatching and running, because there's no penalty for doing it.

Story where a Thai Lakorn actress did it last week and ran to Phuket, then her Russian husband hired thugs to snatch back.

 

 

So, you believe that you can compare the rights for HiSo persons with regular ones? Do you also believe that you can compare the unlawful actions of a foreigner and the results that can occur out of that, with the same thing if a Thai father would snatch his kid and run?

Get a grip, and come back to the reality about how the different laws and values in Thai life are implemented.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Matzzon said:

So, you believe that you can compare the rights for HiSo persons with regular ones? Do you also believe that you can compare the unlawful actions of a foreigner and the results that can occur out of that, with the same thing if a Thai father would snatch his kid and run?

Nothing unlawful about taking your own child.

Tired of you now, on ignore.

[Nevalern]

50 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nothing unlawful about taking your own child.

Tired of you now, on ignore.

So since my wife left us in early may, and was infrequent with visits and phone calls the first month. I can take my daughter out of bkk to a place she may have difficulty in locating us. I'm not breaking the law? No divorce and no custody judgement has been ordered yet.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Nevalern said:

So since my wife left us in early may, and was infrequent with visits and phone calls the first month. I can take my daughter out of bkk to a place she may have difficulty in locating us. I'm not breaking the law? No divorce and no custody judgement has been ordered yet.

Entirely legal in Thailand.

Edited August 6, 2019 by BritManToo

[elcaro]

I'm surprised nobody talked about his visa problem. Since he has no valid visa does that mean he has no rights whatsoever. If he moves to another province he will be a fugitive. As soon as his wife's report goes through to immigration he is done anyway. 

[Will27]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Nothing unlawful about taking your own child.

Tired of you now, on ignore.

Deleted, to save myself a ban.

Not about you BritMan.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Will27

[rhodie]

Get the kid an Aussie passport and hop on a plane back to Australia. Hide away until you are ready to go. She is only after a pay off. Good luck mate.

[Kenny202]

I have a child here and have looked into the legalities and from what I read above for now take Britman's advice. The only card you have is that you are the legal father and at this point you have as much right to the child as she does unless she obtains a court order. I assume you are legally married (not a buddhist marriage)? If not you are not the legitimate father. Forget the other rubbish about fighting for a motorbike etc. If she has it it's gone and she only needs to say she has already sold it or moved it on as with anything else she has. It also doesn't sound like you are in any position to be offering large settlements although many will take a bird in the hand example 50k if she thinks thats the best she will do.

 

I had my ex running me around and manipulating me using the child for 3 months until I realised she didn't want the child. She had already abandoned 3 others (I didn't know she even had). We weren't married at the time, I have since gone through the legitimacy court process. In the end I told mine yes she could demand I bring my son to her any time, but she can not demand I take him back. I told her if it continued I would simply up and go back to Australia and she can take care. That straightened her up pretty quickly. She is a dreadful person, has a provable bad history in nearly every aspect of her life and I would have little difficulty winning a case against her. In your case unless you can prove your ex has physically harmed the child in the past or has a drug problem you will have very little chance of gaining custody, moreso because the child is a girl. Just saying she is a bad person or a liar or presenting text messages wont cut it. You would need rock solid evidence. For now keep the child with you and see if she will go to the trouble of getting the law involved. If she does not much you can do but I would be strongly reminding her if she does take the child no reason for you to stay in Thailand and you are gone for ever. Raising the child will be "up to her". May or may not bring her into line. Logic and long term consequences don't always come into play as much as childish antics and tantrums.

 

In any case take what you read here, including my post with a grain of salt. You need to at least go and talk to a lawyer and be made aware of your rights and likely outcomes. Be wary there too they are not leading you down the garden path to a lucrative (for the lawyer) custody case that you maybe not win. There may be details in your case you haven't shared here that would give you an advantage. Best of luck to you.  

 

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Nothing unlawful about taking your own child.

Tired of you now, on ignore.

Ok,  Are you saying that it´s nothing unlawful with one parent hiding the child in an unknown place when both parents have parental rights and custody?

Regarding tired, which is a little bit of topic, it´s same here. dead tired of reading your made up post with no foundation in the real world. Unfortunately, I can´t ignore them because they can have an undesired effect on peoples situation if they would chose to believe them.

[kwonitoy]

7 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

An unfortunate story I have heard too often. A cautionary tale. You need good legal advice.  I am sorry but I have only heard of the foreigner getting custody in exchange for millions of baht  villas and cars and only when the Thai wife was getting remarried and did not want the kids impeding the new relationship.

Absolute nonsense,

I'm divorced, have sole parental power over my son and I paid nothing to my wife.

Even when we divorced the judge asked me if I wanted to give her half of the condo I said no.

Give her anything he asks, no.

She has to fight in court for anything from me, as does anyone.

Total costs to me, 10K baht for the custody lawyer and 30K baht for the divorce lawyer.

[Kenny202]

Absolute nonsense,
I'm divorced, have sole parental power over my son and I paid nothing to my wife.
Even when we divorced the judge asked me if I wanted to give her half of the condo I said no.
Give her anything he asks, no.
She has to fight in court for anything from me, as does anyone.
Total costs to me, 10K baht for the custody lawyer and 30K baht for the divorce lawyer.

May I ask was there any reason the court gave u custody? I mean any issues with your ex or is your son old enough to make a choice? I believe generally in the case of a thai family and a son, I have heard the judge will normally favour the father if he has the means to support the child. Not so sure if its a foreign father.

Dont mean to be nosey. And ur choice if you dont want to answer. Im in the same boat with a 3yo son I have basically been sole parent since 3 months after birth. I havent gone for custody as shes shown no interest in our son but that cud change



Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mike787]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Thai law recognises the equal right of either married parent to possess their child.

Without a divorce and a subsequent custody order, either parent can legally take and possess the child.

Essentially, whoever grabs the kid first can keep her. Thailand doesn't do custody orders when the parents are still married. Usually the male foreigner tries to be fair, which results in mom grabbing the kid and hiding her with family in deepest Issan.

Which is a losing strategy, for dad, because in three years time, the kid won't even remember dad.

 

It's absolutely clear, and what you or I think of that law bears no relevance.

BRitmantoo is dead right.  RUN!!!!   It amazes me how easily us men are blinded by lies, love, lust.  So easy to be destroyed.  Why buy it when you can rent it for the night on walking street?  Do you really need to feel that power of ownership over a female?  You know we can't own people, only things and temporarily...once we die we still can't take it with us into the after life.  Look at all the gold the egyptians left behind.  

[Nevalern]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I have a child here and have looked into the legalities and from what I read above for now take Britman's advice. The only card you have is that you are the legal father and at this point you have as much right to the child as she does unless she obtains a court order. I assume you are legally married (not a buddhist marriage)? If not you are not the legitimate father. Forget the other rubbish about fighting for a motorbike etc. If she has it it's gone and she only needs to say she has already sold it or moved it on as with anything else she has. It also doesn't sound like you are in any position to be offering large settlements although many will take a bird in the hand example 50k if she thinks thats the best she will do.

 

I had my ex running me around and manipulating me using the child for 3 months until I realised she didn't want the child. She had already abandoned 3 others (I didn't know she even had). We weren't married at the time, I have since gone through the legitimacy court process. In the end I told mine yes she could demand I bring my son to her any time, but she can not demand I take him back. I told her if it continued I would simply up and go back to Australia and she can take care. That straightened her up pretty quickly. She is a dreadful person, has a provable bad history in nearly every aspect of her life and I would have little difficulty winning a case against her. In your case unless you can prove your ex has physically harmed the child in the past or has a drug problem you will have very little chance of gaining custody, moreso because the child is a girl. Just saying she is a bad person or a liar or presenting text messages wont cut it. You would need rock solid evidence. For now keep the child with you and see if she will go to the trouble of getting the law involved. If she does not much you can do but I would be strongly reminding her if she does take the child no reason for you to stay in Thailand and you are gone for ever. Raising the child will be "up to her". May or may not bring her into line. Logic and long term consequences don't always come into play as much as childish antics and tantrums.

 

In any case take what you read here, including my post with a grain of salt. You need to at least go and talk to a lawyer and be made aware of your rights and likely outcomes. Be wary there too they are not leading you down the garden path to a lucrative (for the lawyer) custody case that you maybe not win. There may be details in your case you haven't shared here that would give you an advantage. Best of luck to you.  

 

We are married legally thats why she couldnt take her when she left as i had exercised Fathers rights and said no. She has asked for a divorce and I've said no.  Can she get a custody order without me present in court. No I dont have $$ she has done a good job to fleece  that out of me over the last 4 years with family and stuff which I now know has mostly been sold for fractions of its cost. Both lawyers I've consulted have said it could go either way and seemed to find it hard to explain to me except that I am legally the father and as no custody order is in place or divorce been lodged it is up to me if I let her see my daughter until as such time she applies for for either and I am directed to do so by the courts.

Getting better advice and thoughts from this post than from the police and lawyers.

 

[Nevalern]

57 minutes ago, mike787 said:

BRitmantoo is dead right.  RUN!!!!   It amazes me how easily us men are blinded by lies, love, lust.  So easy to be destroyed.  Why buy it when you can rent it for the night on walking street?  Do you really need to feel that power of ownership over a female?  You know we can't own people, only things and temporarily...once we die we still can't take it with us into the after life.  Look at all the gold the egyptians left behind.  

Never was out to own anyone, all I was trying to do was be responsible for my daughter and support and provide for her mother to give her a better life and self worth. Lust  and love had nothing to do with just a big heart who was too trusting. 

[FritsSikkink]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Run and hide, while you're married she has no right to the daughter.

But if she grabs the kid and runs, equally, you will have no right to the daughter.

 

In Thailand possession is what counts.

Nobody will help you, this is between you and her.

Thought he was divorced as in the title, but he isn't 

Edited August 6, 2019 by FritsSikkink