Tourism: An end to dual pricing? Tourism minister talks of stimulus measures

[sunnyboy2018]

Get rid of the armed police and army prowling the streets. Stop the exploitation of the medieval drug laws. Such laws are absurd in the modern world.

[Flemo]

Thai riviera. This site is always good for a laugh.????????

[Melbun]

19 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Talk is cheap, i'll believe it when it happens.....

Fantastic - does that mean Farang men will be paying the same as Thai men for services :))  ??

[Dogbarker]

.. And of course the very bad burning pollution in northern Thailand will cease ... Sorry I am still asleep and  dreamt I read it....

[roamer]

8 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

So? Some countries have dual pricing others not. Generally we can say that developed countries don´t have. So every country has the chance to act like a developed country or like a 2nd or 3rd world country. 
I have no problem if poor people pay less. But if a Thai BMW driver has to pay 40 Baht and a simple tourist from Cambodia or Vietnam who saved one year for his one week Thailand trip has to pay 400 Baht something is wrong.

In a national park it's usually done visually, the 3 Singaporeans in the back seat get the Thai price, farang in front seat pays farang price:-(

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Date Masamune said:

What is the point, you support racism?

Or 10 times pricing to see a dirty waterfall is a comparible to Machu Picchu?

 

What´s the point of a thread specific about that dual pricing is so horrible in Thailand, when it exists in many places even outside Asia?

Threads like this is continuing to feed all the day by day complainers on this forum.

No, I don´t think it´s such a big deal so that it has to be the top pick thread in a forum like this for a day or two.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

Well that makes it ok. Thanks for your input.

Yes it does! You´re welcome.

[Matzzon]

8 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

So? Some countries have dual pricing others not. Generally we can say that developed countries don´t have. So every country has the chance to act like a developed country or like a 2nd or 3rd world country. 

Great to hear that you have no problem. I think you missed something, that counts like a real problem, though.

You are one of those that have gone in with the masses and decided that they come from, or what is the definition of, a developed country. What would that be exactly, and do you believe that people from what you chose to down grade to 2nd and 3rd world countries agree with your definition?

Maybe they see themselfs as developed and more advanced in differenr sectors, like with dual pricing for example. They have created a system they have gotten away with for decades, which must be seen effective and luctrative. Now when the pressure get bigger and the protest comes they try to make a change to adjust for the best and most accepted scenario.  That is much more than PM May and PM Jonsson so far managed to do for their country and it´s people regarding Brexit. Also Mr Trump have problem creating accepted solutions.

 

I know it´s different areas to talk about, but in reality. How can someone just stand up and decide what developed or not, and what is to be considered as a 2nd or 3rd world country?

[Da Nang]

Before we drove through Kao Yai when Thai DL worked for Falang.

 

Visited Koh Samet too, but after they changed the rules has not been any national parks at all in this scam country.

 

Naratiwhat, your home country travel insurance is not valid there!

 

Forget all national parks, go to international park aka Pattaya. No fees!

[Kohkah]

For Art's Sake, in Hua Hin is one of these ripping off dual price places.  Thai adults paying 180THB, foreigners 300THB.
I just think, how about setting up a website where people can post places with dual prices, to inform other so they can avoid going there.

[MartinL]

After 10 years here, I recently took more interest in my wife's finances (at her request) and found that she gets an allowance for me against her income tax - 30,000 ฿ a year, I think.

 

That pays for any trips I make to places that use differential pricing. The Thai Government gives and differential pricing takes away. In reality, we make a profit because we rarely go to such places these days.

 

Don't get me wrong - I still detest differential pricing but am happy that, in effect, it's not coming out of my pocket.  

[Boatfreak]

The fat that as a foreign tax payer with a work permit I pay more than a Thai non-tax payer is utterly ridiculous, 

[SmartyMarty]

Can't happen soon enough. I recently tried to enter a national park using my Thai DL to gain entry at same price as Thais. "No", I was told, "too many farangs are using fake licences to get in cheap".

My question is, "out of 30+ million tourists a year, how many have been proven to get fake DL?"

[Fairynuff]

23 hours ago, Yinn said:

Not everyone. I not piss off. 

A self confessed masochist 

[Galactus]

they might raise the Thai prices to be same with foreigner price ???? 

dont get lots of hopes.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, roamer said:

In a national park it's usually done visually, the 3 Singaporeans in the back seat get the Thai price, farang in front seat pays farang price:-(

The Tiger Zoo used to have prices for Thais, Asians and Westerners. When I went I think it was 50,100 & 200, about 12 years ago and never been back.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 hours ago, drbeach said:

Nonsense. That's the dumbest justification for dual pricing I've ever read.

Most tourist attractions in Thailand don't even see many (or even any) foreign tourists/expats. They rely almost entirely on Thai visitors. Secondly, many attractions such as national parks have the extra money go into the pocket of park officials so this negates your point. They tell the authorities that a Thai visited, but the difference goes into their bank account.

 

Tourism is down and if Thailand continues with all this nonsense, dual pricing, TM30 etc. they'll be lucky if they receive any international visitors in the future.

 

Next is that most domestic Thai tourists are well off. I'm certainly not going to subsidize the next pickup truck payment for Somchai who reluctantly drags his kids to some water park. Poor Thais don't visit tourist attractions. They can neither afford the modest entrance fees nor take the time off work.

Everyone should pay the same price.

 

Or perhaps using your logic we better start charging Thais who visit foreign countries more, since using Thai logic we can conclude they can afford to pay extra since they managed to afford a plane ticket.

 

14 hours ago, drbeach said:

Excellent post!

 

What that uneducated and uninformed poster didn't mention is, if we are earning 10-30 times more than Thais, where are all the farangs living in 10-bedroom mansions on 10 hectare plots and driving Porsches and Bentleys?

 

Oh, they don't exist.

 

Hence why what he stated is pure fiction. Fact is, most domestic tourists arrive in shiny pickup trucks and cars, which should disqualify them from the definition of "poor". And as you have correctly stated, they earn as much and often more than many farang visitors.

 

Thank you!

 

Though most on this thread seem to understand, I find the approach to this 'dual pricing' idiocy from a small number of halfwits to be both unbelievably naive and wholly masochistic.

 

By the logic of some on here, we 'rich farang' ???? are simply subsidising the poor Thai proleteriat by paying 3, 4, 5 or 10 times more for entry to famous tourist attractions / national parks and heritage sites! Laughably idiotic and totally incorrect, it's demonstrative of a warped view of the way the world, and Thailand, actually work.

 

If this concept of a 'wealthy person' (defined how exactly?) paying more for something than a poorer person is extrapolated to its logical conclusion, by the same token someone making half my salary should pay half the price for a bowl of fried rice or a sandwich, no? Or perhaps when its time to refuel up our respective vehicles the same hapless individual can pay a quarter of what I do to fill his tank? If this was plausible in the real world for more than a fleetingly idiotic moment, how, pray-tell would we determine the price paid by each respective person for each good or service required? What would the basis be and how would it be means tested? Would we all have to flash a copy of our bank statements with a suitably moribund look on our face when we reach the end of a queue? What affect would this have on a person's feelings of self-worth?

 

A totally ridiculous notion. No, what we have instead is different price points for a variety of services and goods, which leads to stratification on the one hand yes, but it also ensures that due to competitive pricing (especially in today's technologically advanced world) that nearly all can afford the basics. 2nd point is this - if anyone thinks that the extra capital paid by a foreigner ends up, by extraction, subsiding the poorer members of Thai society then they are severely deluded, this extra payment goes in the pockets of those govermnent agencies, and in many cases - knowing the corruption here, straight into the pockets of those operating the attractions etc, I'm quite sure.

If the Thai government gave two s***s about their poor then they could enact a beneficial fiscal policy and comprehensive system of welfare to help said people across the board, but they do not in any meaningful sense and we all know that. The taxing of foreign tourists (who contribute in no small way in maintaing/keeping said attractions open) is nothing more than an opportunity to exploit and is representative of the greedy and prejudicial mentality rife in Thailand.

 

I have no issue with subisiding those who need it, for things they actually need, case in point medical assistance and the NHS, national parks and tourist attractions are a far cry from this however. No self respecting nation with any concern for it's reputation would ever entertain such a racist and prejudiced policy as 'dual pricing' much less enforce it. Furthermore In 2019, when the middle class of Thailand is growing steadily and the majority of those entering said attractions/parks have close to or actual 'salary parity' with the rich tourists joining them on a day out, any former justification (misconceived as it is) that those wealthier tourists should pay more on priniciple of their (assumed) wealth, holds absolutely no water either.

 

Reduce the pricing for foreigners so that it's level with what a Thai national pays and by doing so negate any rancour/feelings of discrimination of a large part of the customers that the place is supposedly aimed at - thereby leading to an increased likelihood of return custom AND instead introduce a membership scheme whereby locals (or expats) who become members can enjoy extra privileges at the price of a small montly/annual membership - a la National Trust - who also receive (some minor) government funding. In its current incarnation, the dual pricing scheme is nothing more than flagrant xenophobia. End of story. 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[MartinL]

42 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Reduce the pricing for foreigners so that it's level with what a Thai national pays and by doing so negate any rancour/feelings of discrimination of a large part of the customers that the place is supposedly aimed at - thereby leading to an increased likelihood of return custom AND instead introduce a membership scheme whereby locals (or expats) who become members can enjoy extra privileges at the price of a small montly/annual membership - a la National Trust - who also receive (some minor) government funding. In its current incarnation, the dual pricing scheme is nothing more than flagrant xenophobia. End of story. 

Totally agree. 

 

There's already a scheme for identifying the poorest in Thai society - the Welfare Card scheme (assuming it's still in operation). Holders of that card are officially poor. All other Thai citizens, therefore, are not poor by government definition.

 

Equalise all entry fees - not necessarily at the current Thai national level but somewhere between Thai/Foreigner levels- then give a VERY substantial discount for those who can produce a Welfare Card.

 

How about being a bit more imaginative? Family rates - 2 adults and children? Or charge by the vehicle. For example, flat rate for a normal saloon car and its occupants, rate for tour bus and its occupants etc., etc.

 

BTW @CanterbrigianBangkoker I think you might have misunderstood my earlier post to which you responded 'Confused'. All I wanted to say is that, since the government gives 'us' back the tax on 30,000 ฿, I'm not quite so inclined to stay away from these 'farang price' establishments as I used to be. I've posted quite a lot on here about my refusal to enter these places over the years but now I do sometimes go in, but only when it's with my grandchildren. The tax reduction pays for that so it soothes my resentment of differential pricing a bit.

[Jimbo53]

16 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, it is. On the other hand it´s just 50 quid. Nothing to cry and complain for. And you see, you get to take photos for free.

Less than £40!

[drbeach]

22 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

These guys that have been here for 'decades' -  so what. Do they work for a dollar a hour? IMO they're not even close to being local enough. If people don't want to pay a premium price for something then don't, it's very simple. Why should Thais care about whether the price is too much for a tourist when their main concerns are feeding their families and providing shelter and education for their children. All these cheap bastards could go back tomorrow and Thailand will carry on just fine without them no matter how much whining they do.

That's a very weak argument and shows complete ignorance about the actual state of Thailand in 2019. It's also very offensive to both expats and tourists.

 

In what world are tourists or foreigners expected to "subsidize" the enjoyment of locals anywhere? Tell me, where? There are many poor Americans living out on the streets back home, but nowhere have I seen them being able to get a discount for being poor, or for being black (if they're African American, for example). Nowhere in the world would this attitude fly.

 

Thais are more well off than you think. The average domestic tourist that can afford to visit any sort of tourist attraction is well off. Almost without exception, they arrive by car. If you own a car in Thailand you're relatively well off. I don't care if it's a 2 door pickup truck where 5 people are crammed into the car - the fact you own a car means you aren't poor. Poor people don't own cars in Asia, period. 

 

Show me all the poor people earning a dollar an hour visiting national parks. They don't exist because they can neither afford the relatively low entrance fees and they can't afford the time off either. How do they get there? They'd have to spend a good deal of money on buses or trains to get there. Maybe once a year you might see some poor peasants making the trek to Erawan waterfall by train, but that represents a minority of local tourists. Even fewer would go somewhere like Siam Ocean world where the local entrance fee of 450 Baht or whatever it is, is sky high and completely unaffordable for them.

 

If you haven't already noticed many of us have decided to vote with our feet and boycott these establishments that practice dual pricing. It's got nothing to do with being bitter but everything to do with feeling cheated and discriminated against. A lot of westerners here have limited budgets and the Thais that are able to enjoy 1/10 the price to see a waterfall may actually be much richer than many western tourists/expats. Not to mention you get nothing extra for your money - the difference is usually pocketed by a corrupt official and nothing goes towards clearing the trails of garbage. You sir are ignorant and naive in the extreme. "Subsidizing the locals" Ha! Actually it's more about subsidizing the park ranger's next pickup truck purchase or dinner for the Mia Noi. Doesn't sound like you know Thailand very well!

 

Speaking of Thais not caring about whether tourists are getting ripped off...actually many of them do, after all, the reputation of the country is at stake here. Just last year I think it was I visiting a colleague who owns a factory somewhere up country. An agricultural department official came to visit him. Somehow that guy brought up the topic of dual pricing in Thailand. He went on a rant and said he was "disgusted" by the practice of dual pricing and found it grossly unfair to charge foreigners more than locals! I came late to the conversation but couldn't agree with him more! How refreshing!

[Matzzon]

1 minute ago, Jimbo53 said:

Less than £40!

So far, wait a couple of days more and it will be equal. 

[drbeach]

13 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Totally agree. 

 

There's already a scheme for identifying the poorest in Thai society - the Welfare Card scheme (assuming it's still in operation). Holders of that card are officially poor. All other Thai citizens, therefore, are not poor by government definition.

 

Equalise all entry fees - not necessarily at the current Thai national level but somewhere between Thai/Foreigner levels- then give a VERY substantial discount for those who can produce a Welfare Card.

 

How about being a bit more imaginative? Family rates - 2 adults and children? Or charge by the vehicle. For example, flat rate for a normal saloon car and its occupants, rate for tour bus and its occupants etc., etc.

 

BTW @CanterbrigianBangkoker I think you might have misunderstood my earlier post to which you responded 'Confused'. All I wanted to say is that, since the government gives 'us' back the tax on 30,000 ฿, I'm not quite so inclined to stay away from these 'farang price' establishments as I used to be. I've posted quite a lot on here about my refusal to enter these places over the years but now I do sometimes go in, but only when it's with my grandchildren. The tax reduction pays for that so it soothes my resentment of differential pricing a bit.

Yes, in America they charge by the vehicle. Not vehicle + occupants like Thailand does.

 

What's this tax back scheme about? Never heard of it before.

[Date Masamune]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

What´s the point of a thread specific about that dual pricing is so horrible in Thailand, when it exists in many places even outside Asia?

Threads like this is continuing to feed all the day by day complainers on this forum.

No, I don´t think it´s such a big deal so that it has to be the top pick thread in a forum like this for a day or two.

I see but Thailand has no world class attractions, and it is there business to apply racist pricing schemes based on nothing more than a poorly thought out concept that "foreigners have money, pay more". Income would be increased if they charged all a fair price, with the standard set of discounts for the aged, kids, a locals discount, and a season pass.  As it is savvy punters give most of these so called "attractions" a pass and they lose revenue. 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

26 minutes ago, MartinL said:

Totally agree. 

 

There's already a scheme for identifying the poorest in Thai society - the Welfare Card scheme (assuming it's still in operation). Holders of that card are officially poor. All other Thai citizens, therefore, are not poor by government definition.

 

Equalise all entry fees - not necessarily at the current Thai national level but somewhere between Thai/Foreigner levels- then give a VERY substantial discount for those who can produce a Welfare Card.

 

How about being a bit more imaginative? Family rates - 2 adults and children? Or charge by the vehicle. For example, flat rate for a normal saloon car and its occupants, rate for tour bus and its occupants etc., etc.

 

BTW @CanterbrigianBangkoker I think you might have misunderstood my earlier post to which you responded 'Confused'. All I wanted to say is that, since the government gives 'us' back the tax on 30,000 ฿, I'm not quite so inclined to stay away from these 'farang price' establishments as I used to be. I've posted quite a lot on here about my refusal to enter these places over the years but now I do sometimes go in, but only when it's with my grandchildren. The tax reduction pays for that so it soothes my resentment of differential pricing a bit.

 

'Family rates - 2 adults and children? Or charge by the vehicle. For example, flat rate for a normal saloon car and its occupants, rate for tour bus and its occupants etc.'

 

Yep, some good points, I agree with your approach - it's a sensible one, and something that has been enacted in Europe/N.America for decades, of course. 

 

'the Welfare Card scheme (assuming it's still in operation). Holders of that card are officially poor. All other Thai citizens, therefore, are not poor by government definition' - I believe this does still exist yes, on some level anyway, it may vary from province to province? I can tell you that my missus and her family are just about in this bracket, and have some form of 'welfare card' which allows them to get heavily subsidised medical care, but only locally - and in pretty substandard provincial hospitals. Recently tried it in Bangkok and the reduction in charge was minimal - even at Chula, the largest government hospital in the land. When it comes to national parks and tourist attractions, however, I personally, have not yet witnessed any such reduction for entry - maybe because the places I have visited with her and her family were already cheap and thus, perhaps ineligible for subsidy? I won't make any assumptions about this on a national level however, just going on personal experience. 

 

'I think you might have misunderstood my earlier post to which you responded 'Confused'. All I wanted to say is that, since the government gives 'us' back the tax on 30,000 ฿, I'm not quite so inclined to stay away from these 'farang price' establishments as I used to be' - I was a little confused about your meaning yes, you're right. Was hoping you'd elucidate for me. Do you mean you're given a tax rebate on any earnings over 30,000 THB? Or that because you're wife is married to a foreigner she gets some form of 'tax break'? As I have not ever heard of such a scheme. I pay around 6% tax on my monthly salary here, and at the end of the last financial year I received a c.7500 baht income tax rebate, which was nice, but is not the same thing - as I am entitled to this under Thai law. I have no issue with paying a small(ish) fee to enter attractions / national parks either, and I have before on a couple of occasions, paid for my girl's family to enter too, generosity is a virtue and I am right behind subsidisng those who require it, as I previously stated, but there is a marked difference between subsidising the poorest factions of society and outright exploitation of a perceived 'cash cow', the money extracted from which never ever ends up subsidising anyone in need of it anyway. As others have rightly said, the vast majority who visit such parks or attracrions are not 'poor' by Thai standards anyhow. Many would be on a similar rung of the socio-economic ladder as many of the foriegners visiting the same places. 

 

Make pricing universal and (if necessary) incrementally increase it (with the use of welfare cards being an appropriate way to subsidise those who need it most) or consider implementing a membership scheme / national trust system as I advocated earlier. What should not be done is what is currently done - two tiered pricing structure that alienates and exploits the foreign tourists that Thailand so heavily depends on.

Edited August 7, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[marcusarelus]

17 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Haha.. I will really have to see this happen to believe it. The spin factory is really working overtime today. 

It is only discussed by the usual Thai bashers.  No one else cares.  I've been here 20 years and it doesn't bother me at all.  

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

8 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Doesn't sound like you know Thailand very well!

That is, I'm afraid, the crux of the matter. ???? 

[Matzzon]

7 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

I see but Thailand has no world class attractions, and it is there business to apply racist pricing schemes based on nothing more than a poorly thought out concept that "foreigners have money, pay more". Income would be increased if they charged all a fair price, with the standard set of discounts for the aged, kids, a locals discount, and a season pass.  As it is savvy punters give most of these so called "attractions" a pass and they lose revenue. 

If there is no "world class" attractions! Then whats the problem? Are you trying to say there is nothing to look at? Why then complain about price on something not worth looking at? Or can it be just a personal opinion, and you see it like there is no world class attraction. Maybe that is based on the ever growing "Unhappiness of having to pay".

About the economics. I believe you should let the people that set the price figure that out.

One thing, though! "Savvy punters"? Do that word have the same negative pling, like "so called attractions"?

[MartinL]

3 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

'I think you might have misunderstood my earlier post to which you responded 'Confused'. All I wanted to say is that, since the government gives 'us' back the tax on 30,000 ฿, I'm not quite so inclined to stay away from these 'farang price' establishments as I used to be' - I was a little confused about your meaning yes, you're right. Was hoping you'd elucidate for me. Do you mean you're given a tax rebate on any earnings over 30,000 THB?

https://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

Second table down. My wife's local tax office tells her that, since I'm a non-working, non-tax-paying spouse, she's entitled to this allowance. Who are we to argue ???? ?

 

My wife's retired on a pretty good government pension.

[drbeach]

3 hours ago, SmartyMarty said:

Can't happen soon enough. I recently tried to enter a national park using my Thai DL to gain entry at same price as Thais. "No", I was told, "too many farangs are using fake licences to get in cheap".

My question is, "out of 30+ million tourists a year, how many have been proven to get fake DL?"

Fake licenses? BS. Check the license properly park official. More likely he's worried about not being able to pocket the 360 Baht difference. BTW which national park was this? Some of the smaller less visited ones will still give you the local price, not the more popular ones though.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

7 minutes ago, MartinL said:

https://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

Second table down. My wife's local tax office tells her that, since I'm a non-working, non-tax-paying spouse, she's entitled to this allowance. Who are we to argue ???? ?

 

My wife's retired on a pretty good government pension.

Ah ok, that's interesting. As my missus is not 'technically' a full Thai citizen (another example of nationalist prejudice that is totally unjust, but another story entirely) neither she nor I could benefit from this. Also she/we'd be ineligible to claim it because I am not in your position; I pay tax and I work. But thanks for the info @MartinL, interesting nonetheless and something I was unaware of until now. ????