death planning considerations for US expat

[cmarshall]

My wife and I are both US citizens.  We plan to continue to live in Thailand indefinitely, but that would be subject to change.  I am planning out the steps she would have to take in the event of my death.

 

1.  Do I need a will in Thailand?  We own no car or property either in Thailand or in the US.  I have a Bangkok Bank account with a few 100k baht which will go down to only monthly income requirements after the next renewal of my retirement visa.  We have no debts in either country. I don't see any provision for identifying a beneficiary on Bangkok Bank's website.  How would she get possession of that account?

 

2.  All of my assets are in retirement accounts at brokerages in the US along with a few bank accounts with small balances.  She is the sole beneficiary on all these accounts.  What kind of documentation does she need to provide to a US bank or brokerage in order to claim the assets?  I assume she would need a Thai death certificate with a certified translation along with her US passport.  Does anyone have experience with this?  

 

 

 

 

[TSF]

I made a will with Isaan Lawyers in Korat a couple of years ago. It wasn't expensive and names my Thai partner (we are not married) as the sole beneficiary. 

[DPGumbypgh]

That is all she should need to claim the US accounts, I did this all by mail a few years ago for the Thai wife of a US citizen. should be very easy if you are legally married in the USA. Thai banks she did herself, but basically need Marriage certificate, death certificate and her ID or passport. US embassy will provide several official copies of the translated death certificate. If you have never made a will in the US then probably don't need one as she will inherit everything according to all state laws. If you have then better to make another just to replace it. Pretty easy to do can use standard templates and get it witnessed by other US citizens.

[lopburi3]

1.  Believe Thai bank account will be subject to court OK before paid out.  Normally believe 60% goes to spouse and children split the other 40%.  Do not believe there is any pay on death option so will likely take a bit of time.  Would advise checking with lawyer (who may take case to court) if vital.

2.  US Embassy will issue report of death and that will be used for US needs.  

 

If not already done you may want to register with Embassy as suspect it may speed things up a bit.  Be sure both of you know funds/locations/numbers and such as likely to be a stressful time and should have easy access to documents.

[ballbreaker]

You need a will and I would name your wife executrix and sole beneficiary of your Thailand estate.  Upon your death the will would need to go through Thailand's version of probate court.  This will require a lawyer to process through the court and may take several months.

 

Since all your assets are with US financial institutions and your wife is sole beneficiary a will covering those assets is not necessary.  You will need documents you and other posters have mentioned to get access to US accounts unless they have another requirement.

 

You need to talk with financial companies holding your accounts and find out if Estate Tax Filing with the IRS is required before they will release accounts.  I needed to do this and it took 8 months from the time I sent Estate Tax return until I received release certificates back from IRS.

[cmarshall]

39 minutes ago, ballbreaker said:

You need a will and I would name your wife executrix and sole beneficiary of your Thailand estate.  Upon your death the will would need to go through Thailand's version of probate court.  This will require a lawyer to process through the court and may take several months.

 

Since all your assets are with US financial institutions and your wife is sole beneficiary a will covering those assets is not necessary.  You will need documents you and other posters have mentioned to get access to US accounts unless they have another requirement.

 

You need to talk with financial companies holding your accounts and find out if Estate Tax Filing with the IRS is required before they will release accounts.  I needed to do this and it took 8 months from the time I sent Estate Tax return until I received release certificates back from IRS.

 

Why would I need a Thai will?  I have no assets in Thailand other than a bank account.  Are you saying that the bank account must pass through probate here?

 

The estate tax begins at estates valued at $11.4 million.  That's not me.  So, I don't see that estate tax is an issue.  Was the estate that you were involved with as large as this?  We have no tax domicile within the US at this point, so there wouldn't be any estate tax at the state level either.

[ballbreaker]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

Why would I need a Thai will?  I have no assets in Thailand other than a bank account.  Are you saying that the bank account must pass through probate here?

 

The estate tax begins at estates valued at $11.4 million.  That's not me.  So, I don't see that estate tax is an issue.  Was the estate that you were involved with as large as this?  We have no tax domicile within the US at this point, so there wouldn't be any estate tax at the state level either.

Yes the will must go through probate because beneficiaries cannot be named on bank accounts.  Reason a third party has become involved and was explained as follows.  You and bank have a two party relationship and now your wife is a third party asking for the proceeds from your account.  The bank doesn't know your wife and they will need court order to release funds because someone may challenge will.

 

Two options that might be tried before probate.

 

First would be to investigate something I have read recently on the TV banking forum.  Some posters have stated they have been able to add a second person authorized to withdraw from their account by signature but account remains in their name only not as joint account.  If this can be done then wife could withdraw all funds.

 

Second would be to take death certificate, will, passport and marriage license to bank to see if they would release funds.  All documents would need to be in Thai.  If that fails start probate.  Did not work for me.

 

In reference to the estate tax it was well under the limit.  My problem was with joint brokerage account that I wanted to remove deceased name from account.  The institution immediately froze half the funds and required release certificate that can only be obtained by filing estate tax return for deceased with IRS.  If known before I would have withdraw funds and closed account and opened new account in my name only.  That's why I suggested you chat with your financial institutions so all your ducks will be in line when the time comes.

[JimGant]

If, as you indicate, all your assets in the US are financial, and are designated POD, TOD, or beneficiary -- then no US Will necessary, as assets pass per the above designations.

 

But, as you found out, no such POD type designated beneficiary exists in Thailand, probably because Thailand doesn't recognize trusts, and POD's are so-called Toten Trusts in the US. The Thais sometimes even have a hard time designating the remaining joint account owner as the sole beneficiary (legally in Thailand, this should not be a problem -- it's only the uninformed bank manager up country that causes the occasional problem).

 

So, go to your bank and have your account include your wife's name as a Power of Attorney (or whatever the Thai equivalent is), meaning the wife has access to your account, and even can have an ATM card (for a savings account). The wife's name is then in the computer, and they'll issue a new passbook with her name hidden somewhere on it, but it still shows as your sole account (for immigration purposes). Now, upon your death (which, unless you're the town's mayor, the bank won't know about) she can go transfer the funds to her account, or withdraw, whatever. Officially, a POA ends upon death. But, functionally, she can clean out the account. But, note the below proviso:

 

For sure, write a Thai Will. Type it up yourself, designating your wife as executor and as sole beneficiary. Have it witnessed by two folks, with Thai ID numbers, or passport numbers, as appropriate. No lawyer or expense necessary, but just a precaution to show your wife had all your Will's authority to your bank account. And doesn't require a lot of time or energy. This really shouldn't ever be necessary -- except the Thai lawyer mafia has put some pressure on banks to go thru probate before releasing funds (charging, in some reports, up to 50,000bt). So, if somehow the wife can't close the account, at least you now have a Thai Will that, after the eventual probate, will get the assets to the wife. If no Will, probably some ungodly limbo involving your parents, whatever. But, also, if she successfully cleans out the account, she can then wave the Will showing complete absence of malice, should some snarky lawyer come sniffing.

 

Finally, as you accurately surmise, estate tax is not a factor. Yeah, in the old days, such things as living trusts were needed to double the amount your parents could leave the kids tax free. But with the $11M threshold today, nobody I know has a problem.