Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, fhickson said:

not sure, but chunky monkey has large cup gold instant coffees for 29 baht.
saw a guy come in today and order just a 29 baht coffee and sitting there did not order any food lol.
the great think about it is it was OK, nobody have him any hassle about it. that's the way you want to do business.

I tried one of these places last night, there are some good deals to be had. The price of a big bottle of beer competed with the bars outside, but surprisingly I didn't see anyone obviously using the place as a cheap AC drinking hangout. 

[fhickson]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:43 AM, Leaver said:

So what chance would a bar selling beer at 80 baht have?

 

Like I have said, it's a race to the bottom here. 

little chance, unless your a 2%er that has some sort of gimmick or exceptional angle that justifies the higher price.

 

thats why these foreigner owners come out and smooze the diners so much here and are at their charasmatic best. there are not many other angles to play here on a low end dining gig.

 

otherwise, just like in most everything in business, those who have more money to begin with can sell at a lower price and hold out for longer as they slowly mooch customers and make more money in the long run.

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, fhickson said:

those who have more money to begin with can sell at a lower price and hold out for longer as they slowly mooch customers and make more money in the long run.

The problem with the low end, high turn over, business model is the premises actually has to be big enough for the high turn over.  This creates another problem, where the bigger the premises, the bigger the rent, more staff, more electric etc.  This business model requires a delicate balance of income and expense.  

 

This makes it hard to make money in the long run, even if / when you have managed to knock out some of your competition. 

 

The owners of these places would know they need to sell X amount of their average priced meals, per day, just to cover expenses, and the premises would need to handle X amount of customers in order to be able to sell X amount of meals.  

[Leaver]

On 10/24/2019 at 2:35 PM, jacko45k said:

but surprisingly I didn't see anyone obviously using the place as a cheap AC drinking hangout. 

I'm not sure these businesses can handle one customer taking up a whole table, for an extended period of time, just to drink. 

 

If they attract drinkers, they may have to rearrange and / or add furniture to cater for drinkers. 

[jacko45k]

34 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I'm not sure these businesses can handle one customer taking up a whole table, for an extended period of time, just to drink. 

 

If they attract drinkers, they may have to rearrange and / or add furniture to cater for drinkers. 

I gave the Hippo a try recently. It was OK. Wouldn't use it as a drinking place though despite reasonably priced beer, for an eatery.

[fhickson]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

I'm not sure these businesses can handle one customer taking up a whole table, for an extended period of time, just to drink. 

 

If they attract drinkers, they may have to rearrange and / or add furniture to cater for drinkers. 

your right. just ordering beers there and getting wasted feels a bit off. cant really figure out why though.

 

its just a bunch of tables. the streetside tables may be an option if you just want to drink, since you are removed from the interior area and are not just staring at other diners there for the food. could also be the lighting  the bright light does not feel conductive to a bar area or what most are used to for that.

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, fhickson said:

your right. just ordering beers there and getting wasted feels a bit off. cant really figure out why though.

 

its just a bunch of tables. the streetside tables may be an option if you just want to drink, since you are removed from the interior area and are not just staring at other diners there for the food. could also be the lighting  the bright light does not feel conductive to a bar area or what most are used to for that.

Air conditioning.  Out of the noise and dust.  Clean.  Good location.  Cheap beer.  Snacks available.  Staff not pestering you for drinks.  No crazy loud music.

 

Some may prefer it to a bar.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 10/25/2019 at 4:53 PM, fhickson said:

little chance, unless your a 2%er that has some sort of gimmick or exceptional angle that justifies the higher price.

Would air conditioning be considered a gimmick?  ????

[shdmn]

On 10/28/2019 at 2:30 AM, fhickson said:

your right. just ordering beers there and getting wasted feels a bit off. cant really figure out why though.

 

its just a bunch of tables. the streetside tables may be an option if you just want to drink, since you are removed from the interior area and are not just staring at other diners there for the food. could also be the lighting  the bright light does not feel conductive to a bar area or what most are used to for that.

Maybe it's the lighting.  Bright cool white flourescent office lighting (not sure, just remember it being really bright in there) isn't exactly pleasing drinking lighting.  Should be warm white and not flourescent and not so bright.  Should really be that way for a restaurant too if you want it to feel a little more relaxing.

[fhickson]

On 10/25/2019 at 10:04 PM, Leaver said:

The problem with the low end, high turn over, business model is the premises actually has to be big enough for the high turn over.  This creates another problem, where the bigger the premises, the bigger the rent, more staff, more electric etc.  This business model requires a delicate balance of income and expense.  

 

This makes it hard to make money in the long run, even if / when you have managed to knock out some of your competition. 

 

The owners of these places would know they need to sell X amount of their average priced meals, per day, just to cover expenses, and the premises would need to handle X amount of customers in order to be able to sell X amount of meals.  

i would agree with you in thailand in anything but a large corporate chain who knows what they are doing.

 

as for the chunkey monkey and such, they dont rise to this level.

 

my best guess is that they will leech off the more old times venues, perhaps forcing some of them to close, then close themselves when the cost outpaces the revenue.

 

in the west the owner would likely get a business loan,  pocket profits and declare bankruptcy. not sure what the mechanism used here would be for that, or if they just go under at a loss with unrealistic dreams.

[fhickson]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:46 AM, shdmn said:

Maybe it's the lighting.  Bright cool white flourescent office lighting (not sure, just remember it being really bright in there) isn't exactly pleasing drinking lighting.  Should be warm white and not flourescent and not so bright.  Should really be that way for a restaurant too if you want it to feel a little more relaxing.

agree. bright crisp lighting makes you feel rushed. may be the reason mcdonalds and fast food outlets always use it, while lounges and bars tend to have low lighting or comfortable seating to linger longer. i go into a place with a leather chair and nobody eyeballing me from the opposite table and ill linger a long time, esp if there is no pressure to buy more drinks etc. my repeat business makes up for the higher priced drink.

 

the other main thing is staff attitude. if you hire a bunch of help that are not familiar with foreigner protocol for ordering, greeting etc. it feels weird and can seem lverly desperate for business or overly needy which drives many foreigner customers away even if they realize its not intentional. ive been several places where i had to go in and order at the back kitchen, others where the server hovers over me pointing out stuff on the menu, both of which feels weird if its out of venue and colors the rest of the meal.

 

chunkey monkey, i go in eat and want to leave asap for some reason. i think its the neediness vibe there, could also be the lighting.

Edited November 2, 2019 by fhickson

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, fhickson said:

not sure what the mechanism used here would be for that,

An Airbus or Boeing. 

[Leaver]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:37 PM, fhickson said:

my best guess is that they will leech off the more old times venues, perhaps forcing some of them to close, then close themselves when the cost outpaces the revenue.

Hence, why I started this thread.

 

Also, some of these guys leech off their newbie friends that they have introduced to Thailand, all the time skimming off the top to fund their own stay here.  Basically, con men. 

[Leaver]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:46 PM, fhickson said:

may be the reason mcdonalds and fast food outlets always use it,

This would have to be their business model.  Same as the Kiss Restaurant on Second Road.  Cheap and quick food, with a high turn over of customers. 

 

The margins are so tight they can't afford to have someone take up a table to linger around. 

 

Same reason you share tables in Triangle Bar and the like. 

 

You can't take up space when only drinking 60 baht beers or eating a 100 baht meal.  You need to pack the customers in, or get them in and out as quick as possible. 

[kinyara]

Have there been a significant number of closures yet ?  Any trend that would point to something other than the normal Pattaya business turnover ?

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, kinyara said:

Have there been a significant number of closures yet ?  Any trend that would point to something other than the normal Pattaya business turnover ?

What's your definition of "a significant number?" 

 

This thread was not so much  about those little hole in the wall places, started by dreamers, that turn over frequently.

 

This thread was more about places like The Pig and Whistle, and The Butcher's Arm's.  Places that have been around for years, which surprised many when they closed.  That said, if one's favorite place was a little hole in the wall, no harm in posting about its closure.

 

There's another thread running about Smokey Joe's being for sale.  I see a lot of For Sale signs around.  Who knows what will happen to these places if a buyer can not be found?

 

In my opinion, it was a particularly low season for businesses catering for westerners.  Some have disputed this, but that's my opinion.  The impending high season will be telling. 

 

 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

There's another thread running about Smokey Joe's being for sale.

Is this the place that only recently moved into the rusty container at the side of Retox, Soi Lengkee? Very negative, businesses moving then being sold, just as high season has started.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Is this the place that only recently moved into the rusty container at the side of Retox, Soi Lengkee? Very negative, businesses moving then being sold, just as high season has started.

No.

 

I believe it's Retox themselves that have moved there, due to a contract issue with their landlord. 

 

I think this has been the subject of another thread, or some posts. 

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

What's your definition of "a significant number?" 

 

The impending high season will be telling. 

 

 

 

Certainly more than 2 or 3 in a city the size of Pattaya with the massive number of outlets. I was thinking really of a volume of closures of well established businesses that would actually be of a level for people to sit up and take notice and back up the theory of a major decline in traditional markets. The trouble with isolated examples is they could be for reasons not necessarily tied to market conditions, Bruno's would be a good example of this, ( owner retirement ).

 

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

Certainly more than 2 or 3 in a city the size of Pattaya with the massive number of outlets. I was thinking really of a volume of closures of well established businesses that would actually be of a level for people to sit up and take notice and back up the theory of a major decline in traditional markets. The trouble with isolated examples is they could be for reasons not necessarily tied to market conditions, Bruno's would be a good example of this, ( owner retirement ).

 

I agree.  2 or 3 closures indicate very little.

 

As mentioned, the closure of The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arm's was a surprise to many.  They had been around for years, and had survived through many tough times, only to close in recent times, but the closure of these two places alone is not an indication of a downturn for western establishments.

 

I have noticed around Central Pattaya a lot of Indian restaurants have popped up.  I do not know the name of what they replaced, because I never frequented what was there before, but perhaps another member has had one of their places changed into an Indian restaurant and can post. 

 

Was Bruno's for sale prior to closure?

[kinyara]

Yes and perhaps unlike many foreign run businesses he owned the premises.

[treetops]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

No.

 

I believe it's Retox themselves that have moved there, due to a contract issue with their landlord.

Not quite.  Retox have occupied the container next to the main restaurant building for a while, but have recently moved out of the main building.  I think the poster is referring to Lone Star Texas Grill where the chef and menu moved from their original premises to Retox Lengkee.  I don't know if they're still there since the downsizing.  Either way, it wasn't Smokey Joe's.

[Leaver]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:16 PM, kinyara said:

Yes and perhaps unlike many foreign run businesses he owned the premises.

Unfortunate it wasn't taken over by someone happy to have it remain as an Italian restaurant. 

[kinyara]

7 hours ago, Leaver said:

Unfortunate it wasn't taken over by someone happy to have it remain as an Italian restaurant. 

If you want a great Italian restaurant Gians is only a couple of doors down.

[fhickson]

had some freak server do the seat moving routine again tonight, again...

 

wide open venue with one other customer.

"dont sit there its very hot"

 

second seat, "very loud, near street..."

 

third time, "the customer has left you should move over there"...

 

this time i played along and moved twice just to see what would happen. when she asked a third time i told her turn on the fans above where i was currently seated. turned on and she shut up after that.

 

cant figure out if this bs, or some misguided attempt at service, or desperation from lack of customers??

 

wont be returning. sometimes its better to just shut up. if i sit at a particular spot its because i want to sit there, not because its not good enough, stupid.

 

this is a small italian place up for sale near big c, not sure of the price.

Edited November 15, 2019 by fhickson

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, fhickson said:

had some freak server do the seat moving routine again tonight

Is she trying to get you to sit in a place convenient for her perhaps.... where she can keep an eye on you while sitting and playing on her phone?

[fhickson]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Is she trying to get you to sit in a place convenient for her perhaps.... where she can keep an eye on you while sitting and playing on her phone?

nope, it was a pretty compact patio with only one other customer.

 

have had this happen in other venues like bars also that were more crowded multiple times. its always youngish thai women that do it, men dont do it.

 

so far ive chalked it up to some sort of nervousness or overdue on customer service, possibly a power trip but i dont pickup that vibe from it. could also be some extention of the "hovering" or "mother hen" type of thing.

 

if your in the restaurant biz and you serve farang though, may want to make a note to greet customers as they enter then follow their lead to a seat of their choosing. you can extend your arm out and smile. after that its a done deal, no moving people unless they ask.

Edited November 16, 2019 by fhickson

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, fhickson said:

nope, it was a pretty compact patio with only one other customer.

I am more irritated in GGBs when they try to push you into particular seats. Many times they are holding out the best places for Mr big tip from Shibuya.

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I am more irritated in GGBs when they try to push you into particular seats. Many times they are holding out the best places for Mr big tip from Shibuya.

the seat location is not something i considered, but with me they are always pushing for front and center, which i dont do naturally. i prefer side, unobtrusive and relaxed.

 

i guess they see me as some sort of big shot who should be in the front seat. next time ill ask for a free bj.

[Leaver]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:36 AM, fhickson said:

had some freak server do the seat moving routine again tonight, again...

 

wide open venue with one other customer.

"dont sit there its very hot"

 

second seat, "very loud, near street..."

 

third time, "the customer has left you should move over there"...

 

this time i played along and moved twice just to see what would happen. when she asked a third time i told her turn on the fans above where i was currently seated. turned on and she shut up after that.

 

cant figure out if this bs, or some misguided attempt at service, or desperation from lack of customers??

 

wont be returning. sometimes its better to just shut up. if i sit at a particular spot its because i want to sit there, not because its not good enough, stupid.

 

this is a small italian place up for sale near big c, not sure of the price.

I've never come across this. 

 

If a place is not air conditioned, when I walk in, I actually look for where the fan is.  Also, I do not sit near the pool table because you are always moving for the people playing.  I also stay away from any large speakers, especially if the music already loud. Other than that, I sit where I want.