500,000 Over 55? 200,000 Over 60?

[Thailand]

Applying for an extension for foreigner who is a senior citizen and wishes to retire in Thailand

Initial place to contact:

A non-immigrant visa must be obtained at the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad before entering the Kingdom.

Duration of first permit:

As warranted by this visa, permission will be given for a period of 90 days.

Duration of extension:

The Immigration Office will grant him a maximum one year extension at a time.

Requirements:

1. Application Form (T.M. 7.)

2. A copy of passport or document used in lieu of passport.

3. The application’s 4x6 cm. photo.

4. Extension fee Baht 500.

5. Proof of financial status or pension in accordance with the following regulations;

5.1 If the applicant is 60 years old or older, he/she must have a definite income of not less than 200,000 baht per year or not less than 20,000 baht per month.

5.2 For an applicant who is 55-59 years old, definite proof of income of 500,000 baht per year or an income of not less than 50,000 baht per month must be presented.

5.3 If the applicant is ill, or in poor health and sensitive to cold climates or has resided in Thailand for a long period, and is 55-59 years of age, permission will be granted under special consideration basis. He must have a definite income, or a savings account at least 200,000 baht. The applicant must also submit medical certificates and proof of his/her living in Thailand for a long time.

I am over 55 and have had to show 800,000 baht as proof of income, according to the above from:

http://www.imm3.police.go.th/eng/eng_Apply...%20citizen.html

it should be 500,000baht ?

I am confused!

[lopburi3]

You are quoting old rules (a key to watch for is the old 500 baht application rate). If you go to the current page at Div3 Extension of stay you will find the current procedure. The requirement is 800k baht in bank and/or annual income of that amount and can be confirmed at various web pages including Embassy and Consulate sites.

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life in the Kingdom of Thailand

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. x 6 cm. photograph

4. 1,900 bath application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

- Bank account pass-book, bank statement

- Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

- Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband/wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indication their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the aliens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14,2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary.

- The Health Certificate must indicate that the applicant does not have the following

serious diseases:

1. Leprosy

2. Turberculosis, TB

3. Elaphantiasis, Filariesis

4. Addiction, drug

5. Alcoholism

6. Syphilis

[ProThaiExpat]

Lopburi3 is absolutely right as far as he goes.

Here is my canned response. Lopburi3 is invited to corect or offer improvements.

You will see that a tourist visa works just as well and is a lot easier to get.

Basic “retirement” classification questions answered!

Terminology is important in this area!!

Normally, entry into Thailand, from a foreign country is accomplished with a VISA, obtained from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad.

Entry into Thailand without a VISA, permitted at the airport for thirty days, is based on an ENTRY PERMIT.

As explained by immigration on their website, VISAS are the sole province of Consulates and Embassies, entities attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Entry into Thailand without a visa, deportation from Thailand and regulation of the length of your stay, including entry and re-entry, are the province of the Department of Immigration, a police agency staffed by police officers on assignment to the Immigration Department.

There is no such thing as a RETIREMENT VISA.

There is a long stay classification for aliens termed "RETIRMENT" and the requirements to qualify for this classification is essentially a verified Thai bank account of 800,000 Baht (alternatively a pension) and being at least 50 years old.

The easiest way to get a long stay retirement classification is to do it in Thailand on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building in Bangkok.

The difficulty in obtaining this classification abroad is the differing requirements from Consulate to Consulate and Embassy to Embassy and far more stringent than in Bangkok. Sydney’s consulate told me in no uncertain terms that each Consul General had the right to interpret the regulations any way he wanted and in Sydney, I needed a police clearance certificate from my home country, among many other things. Cambodia said forget it, don't even try.

The “long stay” retirement classification is based on a NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA (retirement) and a change to this visa classification can be accomplished in Thailand at the main immigration office in Bangkok only, providing you have entered Thailand with a VISA, even a tourist visa, as was the case with me.

Evidently, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs allows the immigration department to change a tourist visa to a non-immigrant O visa in this instance.

Thai immigration’s document “requirements list” is as follows” (obtained from their website)

"Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life

in the Kingdom of Thailand

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. x 6 cm. photograph

4. 1,900 bath application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

- Bank account pass-book, bank statement

- Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

- Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband/wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indication their relationship. Evidence must be translated into

Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the aliens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14,2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary.

Name Webmaster (203.156.96.*) [ Saturday 15 May 2004 เวลา 16:16 น ] Comment No: "

To obtain your change of visa classification at the 4th floor office of the main immigration building you need to take with you a bank letter stating you have the required funds for retirement classification, ie. 800K Baht. The letter should include the date of the transfer of the funds into your account, the source institution of the funds and the country from which the funds came.

The STANDARD BANK LETTER, one that merely states the amount on deposit on any given day is INSUFFICIENT for the change of status process, while it is fine for any annual extension thereafter. This was the case with me, others may have got by with the standard letter.

There is an option to qualify for retirement financial status through pension verification, but that is a very difficult approach, requiring an Embassy verification of the pension. The difficulty is the individual immigration officer involved may choose to explore the stability of the source of your pension. Conceivably, the pension could be terminated or suspended for a number of reasons during the year and you would then be left penniless, if no other funds were available. Thus a savings account in Thailand, in addition to qualifying as a pensioner, is a good idea as a back up if you can manage that.

A health certificate is required obtainable from any emergency room of any hospital (preferred) or clinic. Exam may not even occur. 50 Baht or more is charged.

Initialed photocopies of all documents, including every page of your passport is required.

4cm x 6cm colored photograph (suggest you take more than one).

No Embassy letter is required unless you are trying to qualify financial responsibility by a pension.

No police or criminal clearance document is required.

Dress very well, be extremely polite, try to keep your head at or below that of the officers involved, don't stand over them when they are seated as that is seen as very intimidating or threatening.

Most importantly, have a mental frame of mind that you will do ANYTHING required of you, including numerous trivial and unnecessary tasks when requested. Your mind set is that you are not going away, you are there to stay the course until the document sought is obtained.

Your first extension under your non-immigrant 0 (retirement) status will probably be for only 90 days. I was given two 90 day extensions and then an extension for the balance of the first year dated from when I entered the country.

Expect 30 days between the application and the approval, ie. two trips to immigration to allow for processing. After that, extensions can be obtained from any immigration office.

If you anticipate leaving Thailand on occasion in the forthcoming year, it is suggested that you obtain, at the time you apply for your retirement classification, a single or multiple re-entry permit. Once you have your retirement classification and leave the Kingdom, you lose your visa classification and must obtain another visa unless you have a re-entry permit.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions you may still have regarding retirement classifications if you want to PM me or post it.

[lopburi3]

Have always seen floor 3 mentioned for change of visa class by others. Floor 4 has been the lost passport/90 day reporting floor. Has it moved?

Immigration Police have authority to issue visas per MFA web site. That authority is probably what they use to change to long stay visa/extension.

Certification of photo copies has always been by signature rather than initials in my case.

Info seems correct but as always subject to change at any time and no two people will probably have exactly the same process. Expect the unexpected.

[ProThaiExpat]

Thanks lopburi3 for the corrections.

My memory was that it was the third floor and used to say so until someone in a thread said the 4th floor, so I changed it. So much for bad information.

Your information regarding the MFA website is interesting. They certainly change your visa from tourist to non-immegrant O in retirment cases, so they do infact issue a visa, the sole responsibility of MFA, unless, of course, MFA has delegated that authority to immigration in this instance.

That conclusion is based on the entry permit being insufficient for purposes of immigration in the change of classification. Thus, perhaps, immigration's authority to issue a different type of visa only goes in cases when initial entry was via visa issued already by the MFA.

I have incorporated your suggestions. Thanks.

[thaihome]

Terminology is important in this area!!

Entry into Thailand without a VISA, permitted at the airport for thirty days, is based on an ENTRY PERMIT.

I agree that terminology is important, so I suggest the following correction:

Entry without a visa is not based on "ENTRY PERMIT", but on the visa wavier program for citizens of selected countries. Every foreigner entering the country is given an entry permit (stamp) that says how long he or she may stay.

TH

[ProThaiExpat]

Thanks thaihome, will try to make it clearer.

May I assume from your comment that persons not from visa waiver countries CANNOT get an entry permit stamp at the airport?

[Roger13]

This thread is now duplicating the thread at

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9966&st=30

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks thaihome, will try to make it clearer.

May I assume from your comment that persons not from visa waiver countries CANNOT get an entry permit stamp at the airport?

There are 41 lucky countries that get 30 day permits on arrival. Some countries not on that list of 41,can apply for a 15 day tourist visa on arrival. The rest need to obtain a visa before entry.

[thaihome]

Thanks thaihome, will try to make it clearer.

May I assume from your comment that persons not from visa waiver countries CANNOT get an entry permit stamp at the airport?

We are really down to detail terminology here, but the way use the word "Entry Permit" is the stamp that is put in every foreigner’s passport on entry by Immigration that says until what day you can stay.

This doesn't matter what kind of visa or not you have:

If you do not have a visa, they give you a 30 day stamp,

if you have tourist visa, you get 60 days,

Non-Imm 90-days,

Non-Imm extended (with re-entry permit) you get stamped to validity date of your extension.

Everyone gets an entry permit. At least the way I use Entry Permit.

TH

[Roger13]

Thanks thaihome, will try to make it clearer.

May I assume from your comment that persons not from visa waiver countries CANNOT get an entry permit stamp at the airport?

There are 41 lucky countries that get 30 day permits on arrival. Some countries not on that list of 41,can apply for a 15 day tourist visa on arrival. The rest need to obtain a visa before entry.

If someone is making a definitive Guideline ...

Nationals of

1. BrazilL

2. Chile

3. South Korea

4. Peru

do not need Visas and are given 90 Days Entry Permit

[DogNo1]

Hi,

I'm planning on retiring in Bangkok by and by. After reading the instructions, I am planning to enter with any kind of visa, then have it changed in Bangkok by showing that I have 800 K deposited in a Thai bank. A wire transfer from my US bank in Texas should be no problem. I have a few additional minor questions. Does the "Visa on Arrival" available at the airport qualify as a visa that can be converted, or must I definitely get the visa from a Thai embassy or consulate. Also, do deposits in Thai banks earn a decent amount of interest? If not, it might be a good idea to withdraw much of that money and invest it elsewhere until I need to show that it is in the account again. I wonder if the money in Thai banks is safe?

Finally, does the 90 day reporting requirement apply to all visa holders without exceptions? My impression was that certain visa holders, such as those on retirement status, didn't need to report. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking, but I do know people working in Thailand who say that they don't need to report every 90 days, but I guess that they are on "B" visas and not "O" visas.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Eric

[ProThaiExpat]

ermooney/eric: You said:

Perhaps that's just wishful thinking

Your right.

We are all there on occasion so no derogatory implication intended.

What you receive at the airport from immigration, as far as I know, is an entry permit, not a visa, the entry permit is issued to visa waiver countries such as the U.S.. You must obtain a visa from a counsulate or Embassy inorder to later change the status to retirement in Thailand.

Decency is a relative term with clothes and money. Current interest rates are .75%. The highest I have seen in three years is 2% on a fixed rate one year account that doesn't qualify for financial responisbility with immigration as you cannot draw down on it during the year.

Off shore investments are certainly a way to maximize your return.

The major banks certainly are "safe". Lile decency, however, it is a relative term. No FDIC insuring your deposit however. Most expats bring in only enough money to meet their varing requirements and transfer money in from "safer" banks elsewhere.

All aliens residing in the Kingdom coninuosly for 90 days or longer are required to report their address in person or by mail ever 90 days. Fines attach for failure and enforcement has really been stepped up.

Leaving the Kingdom and re-entering during any 90 day period restarts your 90 day period as your entry document, the TM6 contains a report of your address.

[lopburi3]

Also, do deposits in Thai banks earn a decent amount of interest? If not, it might be a good idea to withdraw much of that money and invest it elsewhere until I need to show that it is in the account again.

The interest rate is in the 1/2% area at the present time for passbook savings accounts (you can not use a fixed deposit for 800k requirement). The most that any account pays in the the 2-3% range at present.

Moving money in/out will not be viewed in a positive light by immigration. Better to use 400k (or less) in account and proof of retirement income for the remainder of requirement if you can. The reason for deposit is to prove that you can pay your way for the period of stay they are giving you. So normal use/draw down is expected. Sudden appearance/disappearance is viewed as probably meaning you have no means and so perhaps working without a permit; and borrow the funds as show money when needed. Not the side of the street you want to walk on.

[DogNo1]

Thanks for your advice. Based upon it, my strategy will be to deposit 800 K at the beginning of my stay and draw upon it for living expenses in Bangkok while investing my retirement income offshore and then replenishing my account in Thailand once a year before the renewal date of my "O" visa. To minimize the number of documents needed, I'll plan on converting a tourist visa obtained at the Thai Embassy here in Tokyo. The procedures for visa conversion in Bangkok sound much easier than the requirements for obtaining an "O" visa outside of Thailand. It should be easy enough to report in once every 90 days if registered mail delivery is reliable

Eric

[RDN]

Thanks lopburi3 for the corrections. My memory was that it was the third floor and used to say so until someone in a thread said the 4th floor, so I changed it.  So much for bad information

Some people count floors in buildings like this: ground floor, first floor, second floor, etc.

Other people count floors like this: first floor, second floor, third floor, etc. (so, for them, the "ground floor" is also the "first floor").

[udon]

ProThaiExpat,

excellent posts.

Thank you.

udon

[ProThaiExpat]

Eric: Now your talking like a pro.

Since I don't report every 90 days by mail I don't know how the receipt at the bottom of your report form is handled.

Certainly a self addressed stamped envelope will get your receipt to you by return mail. I have often wondered if immigration will send you your receipt if no stamp and envelope is enclosed?

Mails here are very reliable, at least for me. I don't think registering the letter will do much good unless you go for the return receipt approach.

I have often wondered if the guys who mail it in, photocopy it before mailing as proof of compliance?

You definitely want the receipt in your passport to prove compliance, just in case.

Since a major shopping complex and my favorite Japanese restaurant are almost next door to Chiang Mai immigration, I avoid all of the above by dropping the form off at immigration in person.

I photocopied their form many times after filling it in, so I don't even have to do that prior to dropping it off.

[ProThaiExpat]

RDN: So right.

It would be interesting to know what floor it is by each method of designation. I am fairly certain it is not the 4th floor above ground, so I will continue to use the 3rd floor designation until someone definitively tells me I am wrong. I call the the ground floor the first floor, so for ground floor "callers" my recollection is it is on the "second" floor. How the fourth floor got into it by someones recokoning, I just don't knw.

My recollection is that it is on the 2nd floor above ground or the 3rd floor counting the ground floor as the first floor. Can anyone verify or correct my failing memory?

During my working days, I remember alwasy muttering in elevators that there ought to be a law regarding floor designation, especially when parking floors are included on elevator buttons.

[RDN]

RDN: So right.

It would be interesting to know what floor it is by each method of designation. I am fairly certain it is not the 4th floor above ground, so I will continue to use the 3rd floor designation until someone definitively tells me I am wrong.  I call the the ground floor the first floor, so for ground floor "callers" my recollection is it is on the "second" floor.  How the fourth floor got into it by someones recokoning, I just don't knw.

My recollection is that it is on the 2nd floor above ground or the 3rd floor counting the ground floor as the first floor.  Can anyone verify or correct my failing memory?

During my working days, I remember alwasy muttering in elevators that there ought to be a law regarding floor designation, especially when parking floors are included on elevator buttons.

I've only been to bkk immigration (soi Suan Phlu) a couple of times for 90-day reporting, and have some irreconcilable recollections about floor numbers and room numbers.

I have a vague recollection that I pressed button number 3 on the lift but I also recollect that the room number was 402 . And also I have a strange recollection that the room numbers were not in order: like first you get to 403, then 401 and at the end of the corridor is 402. Maybe I dreamt it. Can't explain it!

Please, somebody clarify!

[Khun ?]

Thanks for your advice. Based upon it, my strategy will be to deposit 800 K at the beginning of my stay and draw upon it for living expenses in Bangkok while investing my retirement income offshore and then replenishing my account in Thailand once a year before the renewal date of my "O" visa. To minimize the number of documents needed, I'll plan on converting a tourist visa obtained at the Thai Embassy here in Tokyo. The procedures for visa conversion in Bangkok sound much easier than the requirements for obtaining an "O" visa outside of Thailand. It should be easy enough to report in once every 90 days if registered mail delivery is reliable

Eric

U.S. citizens still have to pay taxes on off shore assets, earnings and capital gains.

If you are caught not only income tax evasion you may lose your future benefits.

The taxes you pay are the price for having the benefits you may need later in life.

From experience and lucky I did not have alot I let an off shore company who claims to be one of the best investment vehicles available invest for me. I might as well let the crook who borrowed the money in the first place keep it. Not only can these offshore accounts be a pain in the arse to get to, they are very expensive investment tools with very limited and expensive investments. Unless you keep your money invested for years you are better off getting no-load funds back home. That is if you are not going to take the time to do both individual stocks and mtuals. Just get some muni funds they are tax free and if you are low income your taxes are not much on investments anyways. Find a good advisor back home and keep your money where you know you can get to it without weeks of chasing circles and penalties if you change your plans and your neeeds change. Stay away from front loaded funds if you do decide to offshore, these people once they locked your commissions in don't give a rats behind about your loss once they got their commissions, you are nothing more than a bother aftyer that.

[lopburi3]

I have a vague recollection that I pressed button number 3 on the lift but I also recollect that the room number was 402  . And also I have a strange recollection that the room numbers were not in order: like first you get to 403, then 401 and at the end of the corridor is 402. Maybe I dreamt it. Can't explain it!

Please, somebody clarify! 

 

Ground floor level is floor one on the elevator and floor 4 with room 401 for reporting 90 day stay is floor 4 on elevator keypad. It is in order as 401 is first office on floor (north most/front of building) and longest walk from elevator.

[udon]

RDN, you didn't dream it. all the numbers seem to be out of sequence at Suan Phlu.

Thai logic

[DogNo1]

Hi Khun ?,

Thanks for the investment advice. I plan to keep the funds invested in mostly American securities through my broker in San Antonio, TX. Right now I own long-term bonds, small caps, large caps and ETFs. I've been advised to begin to shift some of my funds out of small caps and large caps into high-yield bonds to achieve a 60-40 balance since I am near retirement. Since my interest and capital gains will apparently be reportable and taxable in Thailand, I will seriously look into tax-free munis. I like to use ETFs because of their low cost, but have recently gotten stung by a special fee from Merril-Lynch on their SMH holders that eats up all of my dividends for what they call cash journal and custodian fees. Pretty sneaky. Any additional advice is welcome.

Eric

[Khun ?]

ERMOONEY

sounds like you have most things covered according to your needs. Most are saying keep some growth until your late 60's and then we should go to the 60/40 route. Maybe they like commissions from us longer.

I do not get any type of retirement for another 20 years so I have to live off savings if I do retire this year or next. All of our needs are different so you know best and if 60/40 is what will fill your needs then that is right for you. I have set a goal of a certain amount for a number of years and I plan on being Ultra safe on

what will be my next ten or a few more years, if I need to budget because of returns are low on my next 10 years investments, I have a house paid for back home so if I need to live cheap a few months each year no problem.

Each persons life style will be what they can bare so I would recommend about a 15 to 20% over your minimum amount to be ok. This should help in times of inflation or changes in your normal expected living expectations. Look through some magizines and they have different investments for different stages of life. They recommend some funds that have done well over the years. Kiplingers May issue has some interesting articles on the subject. Depending on what your taxable income is there is safe investments either way ( taxable and nontaxable). I set a low goal of 4% return long term to 6% at best for long term goals. Anything more will be a pay raise some time in life or inflation adjustment.

Since most of us cannot say how the thais will be towards us or the $$$ in ten years, I think it would be wise to afford yourself at the least what it would take you to be comfy back home as the minimum to retire on. I would caution on basing your retirement needs on thailand at all. Being poor anywhere is no fun and if asia does not welcome us in the future you ###### sure do not want to have to look for where the next low cost living area will be because of limited income. If the $$$ every gets back down to the 25 area your going to see some right poor conartist running around thailand talking about how these english teachers are not doing so bad.

Retirement to me is being able to do in life ,what you have worked for so many years for( doing nothing if that is what you enjoy). Some peoples retirement is, working more for something to do, when they have loads of cash.

Enjoy yourself its been to many years getting there to look back.

[ProThaiExpat]

Nice side step loburi3, what is the room number and on what floor is the office for change of visa classifications?

[DogNo1]

Hi again Khun ?,

Thanks for the follow-up advice. Actually, one line of advice I have been reading in the financial magazines and on the web agrees with what you said and that is keeping a bit larger allocation than 40% in securities until our late 60s. I'll probably fudge it and sell some of my ETFs to buy high yield bonds and munis but keep around 50% invested in a variety of stocks. Midcaps and small caps have been making greater gains recently but who knows what reaction a couple of international disasters would bring. At that time, large caps may be less volatile.

I am very wary of managed funds. I just don't trust them because I lost about 75% of my investment in some agressive growth and science and technology funds. Of course you can sell funds whenever you want, but ETFs seem more liquid. They can be bought and sold at any time without penalty.

Unfortunately we are in an outrageous position here in Japan. We are legally required to pay about 14% of our gross wages into the national pension scheme but can not receive a pension unless we pay in for 20 years or more. There is the provision for foreigners who leave the country permanently to receive a one-time payment equal to three months pay less taxes. I can't make 20 years before I retire.

As you suggest, I am planing to live conservatively when I retire, especially since I must finance my retirement mostly from my own savings with only about $450 per month coming from US Social Security. I don't know what living expenses will be in Thailand in a few years. The thought of the baht going to 25 per dollar is a nightmare. Presently though, I plan to annuitize part of my money to guarantee me a stable income for the rest of my life and to draw upon capital gains or dividends for the remainder to give me a flow of about $3,400 per month. I will only move into Thailand the money that I need - $20,000 initially to satisfy the visa requirements of 800 K and then replenish that as I need to from my bank account in San Antonio. I'm hoping to get by on $2,000 per month for everything, leaving me $1,400 to invest and keep in reserve in the US. I'm 61 now and may continue at my job until age 70 if I want to. I calculate that I will have sufficient savings in another year or two, so I may be moving to Bangkok in 2006 or so. It's nice that you have been able to retire 20 years early. How did you manage that? Do you think $2,000 per month is sufficient for a decent life style in Bangkok?

Thanks again for your helpful observations and advice.

[udon]

Hi mooney,

Snap. we're the same age.

I retired here and can assure you that you can live well, "at present" on 80KB a month.

I live 30 minutes from Suk 33, a 100b taxi ride with a following wind, or 90mins by bus for 14b .

It's a 4 b/room split level house in a private Soi with landscaped gardens.

The only noise I get is from the bloody frogs as it's the monsoon season rt now.

Rent, gardner, maid, cable tv, power, add up to less than 20kb a month.

I hope you don't mind me gatecrashing your thread.

cheers,

udon

[lopburi3]

Nice side step loburi3, what is the room number and on what floor is the office for change of visa classifications?

Have never used that service so have to go by information you and others provide. Believe someone did post a specific room number and the name of the officer if you want to try a search (if it wasn't you).

[Khun ?]

ErMooney

You have plenty at $3400 a month and like you say that you will try to keep some to reinvest. At your age I would be on the next plane to retire but then you may enjoy your work. I actually have about 15 years to get SS but I dont count it.

I have worked in foreign countries for most of 30 years now and with 80K a year tax exempt it helps the savings. I also have been working 7 days a week for the last 8 years which gives me little time to spend money. My goal is to have 4 to 5K a month for 20 years minimum and 25 years the better at about 4 to 6% interest.

I am also going with long term Gov bonds about 50 to 60% of my savings. This will still leave plenty to stay invested for at least 10 years and the chance of picking up a few % that I give up on the secure investment. The non worry investment is worth it and I hope next year the 20 year bond is over 6%. Anyways I am setting enough cash aside for the first year to see how I adjust to retiring early then do my investments IAW the way I adjust to retiring.

I think if I can get happy budgeting my first 3 years to around 3.5K a month knowing I have more availible will be a key to riding out bad markets and whatever else comes along over the long haul. It is all just a plan and the savings part is about there already. My work conditions is not bad so I am just waiting to see how long it holds out before I make the move. 2 more years would be nice at work but not really a must. Not having something I must do each day will be the hardest part and that is not all bad.

I have a few ETF's now also in a managed account. For myeslf I invest mainly in stocks and had some closed end funds paying good dividends that I get in out of a few times a year. I have found a few good funds that paid about .75% a month and they run up about 15% so I drop them with the gain and pick them up when they come down to a buying point again. Very few have made a good living off investing so better stick to being safe with my savings which I did not do on a few occasions and it always turns out bad, so from now on I keep my money at home where I can choose to have it in cash tomorrow. Do not let those that make money off your investments dictate when you should be cash or invested, if they knew it so well they would not be dealing with your money they would be doing it with their own. Better safe than sorry we are to old to recover as before.