Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week

[Melbun]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Nor was my wife a Thai citizern when we lived in America. She had all the rights and peivledges of the US system to include healthcare .  I don't have to be a citizen in Thailand to be treated fairly and equitably. Even the Thai constitution  indicates equal treatment to all.

 

I don;t have to know all foreign residents but after 5 decades of living  and being conversant in Thai- I would have heard about a massive amount of long stayers that would hgave caused problems.  I never heard of one. There may be a small amount but generally speaking when a long stayer  gets a catastrphic illness they return home for treatment to their own country as all Western countries (except USA) have a universal no cost healthscheme.

 

The whole purpose of  insurance is to form a pool in whcih all ages are part of the pool and if mandatory- everyone- regardless of age is placed in the pool and  that spreads the risk and cost across  large numbers of people. In addition- if insurance is mandatory- it must be offered to everyone; there can be no pre conditions or exclusions.

 

In the Thai system- the risk is not spread across all age groups; there are exclcusions , the cost is high and the coverage low.  It is simply a program to make money for the insurance companies and their board members and shareholders.

 

This is about fairness for all; reciprocity for foreigners and  being treated and respected as a human being.  If you can't see that- you will continue to be exploited but at least I know when I am being exploited.

 

 

Look you seem to bringing irrelevancies into the equation. In the USA they did this....... & Most people return home when they have serious illness ..... ? Just about everyone here has stated you can't get coverage in the UK.... Look sorry I don't think a lot you say is making sense - maybe in your mind.

Insurance is a means of protection from financial loss. It is a form of risk management, primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent or uncertain loss. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy to make a profit from expats. Nuff said.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Melbun said:

Look you seem to bringing irrelevancies into the equation. In the USA they did this....... & Most people return home when they have serious illness ..... ? Just about everyone here has stated you can't get coverage in the UK.... Look sorry I don't think a lot you say is making sense - maybe in your mind.

Insurance is a means of protection from financial loss. It is a form of risk management, primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent or uncertain loss. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy to make a profit from expats. Nuff said

Everything I said has relevance and it is a known fact that a person can buy back into the NHS when they return. Do you really think any British doctor or hospitall run by the NHS will let someone die.

 

You have no facts- you have provided absolutely no positive argument or opinion on this subject.  You can have your opinion- even if it is based on nonsense.  The only thing you have said in all your posts that makes any sense is-  Nuff Said and Bye!!

[Melbun]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

Everything I said has relevance and it is a known fact that a person can buy back into the NHS when they return. Do you really think any British doctor or hospitall run by the NHS will let someone die.

 

You have no facts- you have provided absolutely no positive argument or opinion on this subject.  You can have your opinion- even if it is based on nonsense.  The only thing you have said in all your posts that makes any sense is-  Nuff Said and Bye!!

No, they won't let you die - granted - basic care will be given. But you can be put on a waiting list, for years, until you do. I am fed up with this stuff now. Go talk about this dilemma to someone else, that will agree with you and wants to listen.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Melbun said:

No, they won't let you die - granted - basic care will be given. But you can be put on a waiting list, for years, until you do. I am fed up with this stuff now. Go talk about this dilemma to someone else, that will agree with you and wants to listen.

LOt's of people are listening- it is you that are not listening or understanding and won't even do the research  on the issue.  Since you are fed up- you don't have to answer.  We agree on one thing-  Nuff said and Bye!!!!

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Not sure if you are just trolling............. but yourreply does not match my post...

Both yours and my posts referenced the nanny state.  Apologies if you can't see the link on the broader spectrum of this thread. 

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Your perspective is not correct.  I have been around Thailand for 50 years and when I first married my Thai wife- we went to the USA on a marriage visa.  At that time, upon entry, she received permanent residence; she was eligible for any medical care that US citizens received and could do anything but vote to include puchasing  propeerty.

 

Now lets look at Thailand for those married to a Thai citizen and obtain a marriage extension or Visa. We get nothing  except the Visa/permission to stay- there is no reciprocity. We cannnot get Social Security or get into the system; we cannot pruchase land; we have no rights.

 

I don't even expect to get full reciprocity in Thailand but I want some recognition that since my spouse gets almost all the rights US taxpayers have- Thailand can at least allow me to  buy into their  Social Security system- even if they want to add a surcharge on me.

 

I fully understand that the Thai economy is not the same as a Western country but I am not asking for the 30 Baht scheme which allows poor Thais to get no cost medical care.  I simply want the same thing that we Americans (and also the British etc) give to Thais who marry and come to our home countries.

 

By doing this and also have a category for single retirees in Thailand- there will be a huge boost in the Thai medical fund and a surplus that can be used to fund the Government hospital system which is underfunded due to mismangement of the Thai budget. If a foreigner wants to use the private hospital system- they can pay the added surcharge.  This is a win-win system for all instead of a lose-lose situation which is being proposed.

My perspective is just fine thank you very much.

My wife gets all the rights of an Australian citizen when we are in Australia as she is a permanent resident soon to be a citizen. Indeed you would get all the rights of Thai person if you took Thai citizenship. You say you have been around Thailand for fifty years so you have had plenty of opportunities to do so. 

 

I am well aware of what a Thai ladies spouse is entitled to in Thailand. And it isn't the Thai social security system for most people. I wish it was but it isn't going to happen in my opinion. 

 The ageing expats demand on the system would cripple it, regardless of any surcharge they apply.  Insurance companies know the risk and price their products accordingly.  What is so hard to understand about this? 

I'd love dirt cheap health care... Who wouldn't? 

People's desires do not always match reality. 

If you want reciprocal  rights then you need to start a campaign to force your elected representatives ( both you and your wife) to demand government to government talks to resolve the issue. 

Good luck with that

Edited August 20, 2019 by emptypockets

[Grumpy John]

If may of you are like me your in and out a couple of times a year and have to pay whatever fee's are levied at the airport....so once we are forced to buy expat insurance any airport (tourist) insurance tax will be waived, or rebated?  

[gk10002000]

On 8/17/2019 at 6:44 PM, tracker1 said:

I would have thought with the millions of tourists flooding Thailand that they would be more of a medical problem then a few hundred expats living here !

all most likely true.  But Thai logic and mentality is one of the strangest things I have ever experienced.  Although I think there are more than a few hundred expats

[gk10002000]

On 8/17/2019 at 6:55 PM, burner2014 said:

Bt40,000 outpatient coverage???
This would be the worse. This means you need to buy a much more expansive coverage plan than you might need just for this visa. I am not interested in outpatient coverage and still forced to buy it?
This will shake out a lot of foreigners living here. As if the outpatient medical services would be the ones which have outstanding bills. No doctor treats you "outpatient" if you don't show your credit card or health insurance. It's all about emergencies (in terms of "open bills")

Obamacare in the USA forced people to buy coverages they did not want and did not need.  The courts ruled that catastrophic plans were "bad" coverage.  Sorry, but I prefer to seek my own council on such things and make my own informed decisions

[gk10002000]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:36 PM, NCC1701A said:

in the USA the word "scheme" is always used as a verb.

 

"make plans, especially in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong."

 

I disagree with always.  "What type of scheme did you come up with?" as a counter example. 

[gk10002000]

Well, I was initially enamored with Thailand after my first visit in 2004.  I have visited as a tourist 14 times now I think, sometimes staying as long as two months.  I always envisioned some longer stays, partial retirement there, etc.  But the rules and policies, and reporting requirements really are increasing to beyond just an annoyance.  At this point, all I can see is me visiting twice a year on 60 day initial STV's each time paying for the additional 30 day extension for a total of two 90 day visits.    I just don't see things settling down and stabilizing and more and more requirements will be levied on expats.

[Melbun]

4 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Well, I was initially enamored with Thailand after my first visit in 2004.  I have visited as a tourist 14 times now I think, sometimes staying as long as two months.  I always envisioned some longer stays, partial retirement there, etc.  But the rules and policies, and reporting requirements really are increasing to beyond just an annoyance.  At this point, all I can see is me visiting twice a year on 60 day initial STV's each time paying for the additional 30 day extension for a total of two 90 day visits.    I just don't see things settling down and stabilizing and more and more requirements will be levied on expats.

Good man !! Lots of sense you make. But really - it's a big world. Why go to the same place 14 times ? Girls, booze, bars, temples ? Thai food ? . The nice weather - Don't think so, mostly stinking hot and humid. The fresh air. Not !!

Edited August 20, 2019 by Melbun

[roamer]

13 hours ago, Melbun said:

Oh dear !! A little white lie OR a big porkie.

Not going to shift through all these posts. However, a niece works in one of the hospitals (London) that checks patients against a GP registration, beyond A&E they certainly do come down and talk to patients about entitlement. No doubt it will go nationwide. Not saying you would be booted out. However, do think too many expats have been away too long and lost touch with reality about the day to day functioning of the system.

[kiwikeith]

On 8/18/2019 at 1:55 PM, burner2014 said:

Bt40,000 outpatient coverage???
This would be the worse. This means you need to buy a much more expansive coverage plan than you might need just for this visa. I am not interested in outpatient coverage and still forced to buy it?
This will shake out a lot of foreigners living here. As if the outpatient medical services would be the ones which have outstanding bills. No doctor treats you "outpatient" if you don't show your credit card or health insurance. It's all about emergencies (in terms of "open bills")

I recieved hospital treatment for a serious accident in Udon Thani, caused by some idiot letting off industrial fireworks in the street.

Serious damage to my eye.

Cost me about 60,000 BHT for MRI and hospital stay.

I was not allowed to leave without paying, I had not intention of not paying.

I live elsewhere now and see a outpatient doctor at a clinic for a check up every 3 months.

Costs me 3to 500 BHT.

No problem.

Some expats get medical treatment in Thai hospitals cheaper than getting it at home.

Petcharat is a good hospital

I have never heard of anyone I know doing a runner.

I do believe what a previous poster said ,that this is scheming insurance companies dipping into the public till.

Hua Hin public hospital sees heaps of expats, they even streamline you through a special room .

Never heard of a non payment issue.

[Thaidream]

9 hours ago, emptypockets said:

My perspective is just fine thank you very much.

My wife gets all the rights of an Australian citizen when we are in Australia as she is a permanent resident soon to be a citizen. Indeed you would get all the rights of Thai person if you took Thai citizenship. You say you have been around Thailand for fifty years so you have had plenty of opportunities to do so. 

You have just proved my point- your spouse emigrating to australia gets all the  things an Australian citizen would get.  It was the same when my wife  obtained her Immigrant Visa to America based on marriage.

 

However-  when any foreigner gets their marriage Visa/Extension it is different as there is no rights of abode; one cannot purchase land; obviously we cannot get into the Social Security system (but our spouses in our home countrie can)  This is completely unfair and there is no reciprocity.  Our Embassy officials are worthless- they do not represent us as citizens and demand equal treatment.  The only thing more worthless than them is our home Government representatives  who do not even understand the issue.

 

As far as becoming a Thai citizen- I will never do that-I was born a citizen of the USA and will die a citizen-  and why should I have to become a citizen of any other country when every foreign constitution- incluing Thailand- indicares equal treatment. Of course- it will never happen in Thailand.

 

What Thailand is really trying to do is making it as difficult as possible for retirees to come to Thailand. the current powers are afraid that so many foreigners have brought foreign ideas into the country which makes it harder to control the population.

[Max69xl]

12 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

If may of you are like me your in and out a couple of times a year and have to pay whatever fee's are levied at the airport....so once we are forced to buy expat insurance any airport (tourist) insurance tax will be waived, or rebated?  

The tourist insurance you are talking about is just a suggestion,and they mentioned a sum of 20 baht/person and stay.

[ThaiBunny]

Tomorrow's the day?

[mike787]

Get ready for the belt tightening, Land of smiles not so warm smiley friendly, those days of cheap easy going existence are over for good.

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:55 PM, mommysboy said:

'

but it should be possible for expats to be able to pay a reasonable annual premium to obtain treatment in govt. hospitals.'

 

How much though?  Expats tend to be in the age group that gets increasingly more expensive.  I'd say it would need to be 50,000 per year at a guess.

Good point, but the cost should initially be based on the costs incurred at govt. hospitals by expats on retirement extensions - and I doubt this would amount to 50,000 bht p.a. when divided by all expats. on retirement extensions.

 

The vast majority prefer to 'pay their own way' in private hospitals at the moment (even though we know that govt. hospitals are far cheaper), and there is no reason why this would not continue - particularly if there was an excess of around 100,000 bht?

 

 

[mommysboy]

On 8/20/2019 at 7:12 AM, tropo said:

Or if you didn't have a card on you. Some people don't plan everything before they end up in hospital sick or injured.

 

I'm sure they wouldn't have dragged you to a prison cell to wait for payment or put you back in a hospital ward and increase your bill. There is nothing they could have done. They were strong-arming you and it worked. That's no way to treat someone who has just been in hospital. Obviously Thailand's "over 1 billion baht" 3-year unpaid medical bills suggests they just end up losing it if they cannot collect payment.

 

They should stop crying about this and realise it's the cost of doing (tourism) business. It's a drop in the ocean compared to their profits from the industry. Any major efforts will just cause a drop in tourism. Tourists and expats have choices and won't bother with Thailand if the requirements become too expensive or complicated. I'm sure the people (politicians) crying about this problem aren't short of a penny because of it. 

 

Tourism is a big industry in Thailand, and I agree that losses incurred by rogue health bills are largely insignificant.  As with many things, Thailand is generating adverse publicity needlessly, and for no apparent gain.  Perhaps it ought to consider the health benefits also enjoyed by its citizens working and sometimes just visiting countries like the UK, Australia, etc.  It just appears to me that Thailand doesn't want to know about two way relationships- tight basically!

[lkv]

It's Thursday already, come on.

 

I'm dying to find out the details, they said this week?

 

[ThaiBunny]

9 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Perhaps it ought to consider the health benefits also enjoyed by its citizens working and sometimes just visiting countries like the UK, Australia, etc.

Are you able to expand on this?

[metisdead]

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[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Are you able to expand on this?

Sure, where UK is concerned anyway:

 

Thais (and all nationalities) receive free emergency treatment at all hospitals.  

 

Elective surgery is not free, but there again there isn't the regime of marching a sick person off to an ATM, and enforcement is difficult in practice.

 

Some visa types include comprehensive coverage at a very reasonable price.

 

I would be surprised if Australia is much different, but would be interested to know.

[Angry Dragon]

On 8/18/2019 at 9:26 AM, Vacuum said:

Yes, but many expats can't get an insurance because of their age.

in which case you need to have sufficient funds to cover hospital expenses.  if you don't have those, then hospitals should simply deny entry.

 

forget the requirement for insurance, simply require all potential patients to show sufficient funds or insurance before being admitted.  if they can't show this, then no admissions.  put the responsibility on the expats, not on the hospitals by making them accept just anyone who walks in or on the government by forcing it to devise some unwieldy policy unpopular to everyone.

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

... simply require all potential patients to show sufficient funds or insurance before being admitted.

OK, knocked off a motorcycle, arrive at nearest hospital unconscious. What do you suggest happens next?

[Melbun]

20 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

in which case you need to have sufficient funds to cover hospital expenses.  if you don't have those, then hospitals should simply deny entry.

 

forget the requirement for insurance, simply require all potential patients to show sufficient funds or insurance before being admitted.  if they can't show this, then no admissions.  put the responsibility on the expats, not on the hospitals by making them accept just anyone who walks in or on the government by forcing it to devise some unwieldy policy unpopular to everyone.

No, that would be completely amoral. It would be like saying show me your money or go somewhere else. Certainly The mandate of any hospital is to treat the sick. Settlement comes later. But the Thai's want to circumvent that  by insisting on health insurance for all long term residents. I would also be in favour of mandatory travel insurance at immigration on arrival.

[highonthai]

39 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

OK, knocked off a motorcycle, arrive at nearest hospital unconscious. What do you suggest happens next?

Therein lies the problem. With many of the foreign tourists that take a header and need assistance while here, the hospital will give life or death emergency service. And until you can prove that you can pay it goes no farther, and you will be transferred to a government facility. In the last few years I've had several acquaintances and one friend that had no money to pay their bills. In the case of the friend that crashed his motorcycle, his family in the UK didn't even have the money to fly over to help their father. His daughter in the UK started a go fund me page which made us (some of his friends) angry. We passed around the hat and helped out. He was not in a financial position to take care of his hospital bills. He is still bed ridden with major head trauma. 

Should a THAI hospital or THAI government pay for his financial irresponsibility?   I don't think so...

 

I'm for some sort of Mandatory or proof of insurance tourist or Expat. And I don't think that there is a good argument against that.

Edited August 22, 2019 by highonthai

[MRToMRT]

Like many others I am definitely not against the need for insurance, for long term expatriates in Thailand. Although, I am against how this "requirement" has been "planned" thus far. Its full of holes and does seem to meet any meaningful criteria in the meaningful reduction of Thailand's expenses on uninsured individuals (migrant workers, tourists, long stayers, etc, etc).

 

Doe the Administration really want to reduce the country's financial exposure or is the plan just to bleed long stayers financially for certain Thai business' gain.

[ThaiBunny]

28 minutes ago, highonthai said:

I'm for some sort of Mandatory or proof of insurance tourist or Expat.

How do you propose those tourists who have a tie-in between their Platinum credit card and travel insurance "prove" they have insurance? It's automatically triggered the moment they charge some or all of their trip to the card (depends on the conditions in the policy) - there's no certificate to say they're insured. As well, many policies deny cover for motorcycle accidents and other "dangerous" pursuits. AFAIK the Thai BUPA policy only covers 50% of any motorcycle accident costs

Edited August 22, 2019 by ThaiBunny