Dream Shattered...

[LaoPo]

I wonder what's wrong with 'us' at Thaivisa.....?

Please, allow me to explain the above.

I have read the OP's story and understand his grieve about his 'wife-to-be' and son; meaning they left back to the UK, not able to cope with the life and circumstances in Pattaya and/or Thailand.

This topic had an astonishing 240+ replies and 17 pages so far....

On the other hand, there is this story that had a 'mere' 4 pages of replies which was about a 5 year old child on Samui who was brutally murdered -his throat was slit- whilst the same attempt was made on his mother.

My question is:

WHAT ON EARTH IS MORE IMPORTANT ?

Read for yourself:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110931

To the OP:

I am sorry to 'brake-in' to your thread with my post and understand your struggle about your loved ones and what to do next. I just wanted to 'shake' the audience at TV a little in order to have everybody -including myself- understand a bit more what life is all about.

LaoPo

[solo siam]

Surely theres just less to discuss about a murder? no decisions to be made and no conflicting advice etc... We can't help the murdered child, or effect their situation, offer advice etc...

Back to the OP, I think the real thing here is that he feels let-down, she agreed to try it for a year and went back on that promise, she's offering no compromise (1 month here, one month there for example) and is issuing ultimatums. IF he goes back, gets married etc... who's to say she isn't going to get bored of that and run off after a month.

Really I can't see it being like a prison sentence to have to stay in Thailand for 6 or 12 months, 95% of people would love to have that opportunity.

[lannarebirth]

I wonder what's wrong with 'us' at Thaivisa.....?

Please, allow me to explain the above.

I have read the OP's story and understand his grieve about his 'wife-to-be' and son; meaning they left back to the UK, not able to cope with the life and circumstances in Pattaya and/or Thailand.

This topic had an astonishing 240+ replies and 17 pages so far....

On the other hand, there is this story that had a 'mere' 4 pages of replies which was about a 5 year old child on Samui who was brutally murdered -his throat was slit- whilst the same attempt was made on his mother.

My question is:

WHAT ON EARTH IS MORE IMPORTANT ?

Read for yourself:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110931

To the OP:

I am sorry to 'brake-in' to your thread with my post and understand your struggle about your loved ones and what to do next. I just wanted to 'shake' the audience at TV a little in order to have everybody -including myself- understand a bit more what life is all about.

LaoPo

Of ciourse the murdered child is more important, but i didn't have a clue who killed him so had nothing of value to add.

[andook]

I wonder what's wrong with 'us' at Thaivisa.....?

Please, allow me to explain the above.

I have read the OP's story and understand his grieve about his 'wife-to-be' and son; meaning they left back to the UK, not able to cope with the life and circumstances in Pattaya and/or Thailand.

This topic had an astonishing 240+ replies and 17 pages so far....

On the other hand, there is this story that had a 'mere' 4 pages of replies which was about a 5 year old child on Samui who was brutally murdered -his throat was slit- whilst the same attempt was made on his mother.

My question is:

WHAT ON EARTH IS MORE IMPORTANT ?

People trying to be a tangible help to the OP, probably. Whereas the murder has already been committed on Samui......?

I think that there is nothing "wrong" with that at all. I hope my next dilemma attracts as many people wanting to help.

[LaoPo]

People trying to be a tangible help to the OP, probably. Whereas the murder has already been committed on Samui......?

I think that there is nothing "wrong" with that at all. I hope my next dilemma attracts as many people wanting to help.

I agree; it's nice to see people here on TV, trying to help and advise the OP with his struggle.

Yes, the murder has been committed and nothing can be done anymore for this poor child.

But, there's still a mother who survived an attempt-of-murder and lost her child.....and maybe she needs help too..... but it might be that 'we' (including myself) don't know what to do or say.....and therefore it's easier to 'talk' to the OP with his -big- problem..............?

LaoPo

Edited March 21, 2007 by LaoPo

[too true]

Mobi d'ark - Western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women whether they admit it or not? Really? And I guess you'd know being a Western woman? Oh, sorry, you're not, are you? I'm not jealous of Thai women. I'd like to get nice shoes to fit, but other than that I couldn't give a toss whether they are more petite than me, prettier than me, have better figures than me (subjective - Reubens would have preferred my figure, but even I would have been too skinny for him!) I've seen some of the blokes some of them end up with - I can assure you I'm certainly not jealous of that!

MY sincere apologies.

I should have said" MOST western women..."

Clearly you are one of the (several?) exceptions the proves the rule.

Good for you

Let's hope you're not in denial (only joking )

I did say that some farang women live happy and full lives out here, and you obviously fit into that category. May you enjoy many happy years in the LOS.

PS No, I'm not a western woman, but I have known a few who have been honest enough to admit what have I stated is true, in their case anyway.

Have to agree with November Rain. All I want is a pair of shoes that fit! I have a few Thai women friends and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world, and some of them do seem to have that judging form the way the spend their farang husbands' money.

But, as UG stated, NR is an exception, as am I, as are most of my farang girlfriends who have set up house here with their Thai husbands. I am not an expat wife. I chose to come here and immerse myself in the culture and learn the language and marry a citizen of this country and have kids here. I did not make a deal or agree to come here for my husband's job, which I may have felt pressured to do. Remember that we are only hearing his side of the story. There are all sorts of situations and circumstances in which people make decisions that they wouldn't normally make for themselves. If this woman is relatively young and fun and was used to an active youngish social life in England, there's probably no way she was going to fit into the expat wife scene in Thailand. For most people I think, adventure sounds great from the armchair of their living room, or from their kitchen while sipping a cup of tea. Most people don't really want the adventure and change that sounds so exotic and appealing.

[wolfmanjack]

Helicopter,

First of all I feel for you as you have got an extrmely difficult decision to make.

I agree with bits of most peoples post.

Reading yours I get the feeling that you were having a sh#tty life in England with little or no prospects, and this opportunity presented itself whereby you felt you could improve yours and your familys lifestyle.

Your wife agreed and then went back on her word for reasons that are perhaps understandable.

I think you have decided that Thailand is the place that you will build your future and given the choice I believe that you would want your family with you.

What I would do is this.........

Fly back to UK straight away on a return ticket , returning after 3/4 days.

Sit down with the Mrs, tell her how much you love her/need her/ want her etc etc

Get a large A4 piece of paper, draw a line down the middle.

Discuss the reasons why you decided to go to Thailand to live and write down all the positive things, eg climate/lifestyle/money/better house/better location etc etc and suggest things that hopefully you Mrs agrees with. You should have on one side of the paper a sizeable list of 'positive' reasons to be in Thailand.

Then ask her to list the 'negative' things about the move and SHUT UP, let her talk. You will find out the REAL reasons as to why she did not settle.

Once you know the true reasons, then and only then will you have a chance of resolving the issue.

I suspect lack of trust to come near the top of the list. Her Dad is married to a Thai girl, you work with Dad, get on well with him. With her hormones up the wall I wouldnt mind betting that she thinks its only a matter of time before you stray.

You have to somehow convince her that the 'positives' you have written down far outweigh the negatives.

Good luck.

That is a really great piece of advice JacknDanny. Well posted mate and I agree wholeheartedly!

Cheers

Jimmy

I agree also. The most important advice he gave was Shut up and let her talk . You have 2 eyes and 2 ears and only have 1 mouth. You should look and listen twice as much as you talk. Don't interupt when she starts to tell you why. Better yet, tell her you will give her a few moments alone to write the reasons down so she does not feel that you are staring over her shoulder or putting any other pressure on her. Maybe tell her that you ahve already made a list on a seperate piece of paper and have her write her list without reading yours first. that way her list will not be an answer to your list.

[wolfmanjack]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

Good point. I got a green card for my wife and we went to the USA. After 1 month she decided she did not like it so we moved to thailand. Now I have business here and do not even think about going back. Sure I miss my parents but my life is in Thailand now. We went to visit my parent recently now my wife wants to move back to the USA because of the extra money we could make. I told her too late. I sold every thing there to be here and I am not starting over again. I buckled under the first time now she is going along with me this time.

[too true]

Is all this for real???

If there's any love between you, kids have to come first. And who can blame her for not wanting to be pregnant here? With no close female family member or friend for support... I did it twice. The first time was really frustrating and difficult because I couldn't speak the language well enough to get all my feelings across to doctors and nurses and well meaning but interfering family members. The second time was much easier because I could speak the language and knew how to politely tell interfering family members to butt out. Actually, my husband and I had been working in New Zealand for 6 months when I got pregnant with our second child. We had planned on staying there for 2 or 3 years. But having no close friends or support network there, other than Thai people, I basically insisted that we return to Thailand to have the baby, because here is where I feel most comfortable.

I've known a handful of western women here who are married to Thai men and who don't speak Thai very well and have made the decision to go back to England for most of their pregnancies. And nobody blames them for it.

She needs support and she needs you to give it to her. And both your children need a father. Things don't always go as planned. But the things that are important to us shouldn't change because of them.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

People trying to be a tangible help to the OP, probably. Whereas the murder has already been committed on Samui......?

I think that there is nothing "wrong" with that at all. I hope my next dilemma attracts as many people wanting to help.

I agree; it's nice to see people here on TV, trying to help and advise the OP with his struggle.

Yes, the murder has been committed and nothing can be done anymore for this poor child.

But, there's still a mother who survived an attempt-of-murder and lost her child.....and maybe she needs help too..... but it might be that 'we' (including myself) don't know what to do or say.....and therefore it's easier to 'talk' to the OP with his -big- problem..............?

LaoPo

LaoPo,

I have read quite a few of your post in the past and find you to be quite the empath which I find highly commendable! Unfortunately I do feel that trying to hijack a persons thread for your own reasons though to be quite rude. Put yourself in this place and imagine the thread regarding the topic you are discussing having a poster come along and try to completely change the subject to something else. Would you yourself not find that quite rude?

I do find that situation regarding the mother and child a terrible tradgedy but with this thread the OP is actually asking a question and seeking advice which is different to just posting a news story for people to comment on IMHO. Totally different situation. As I am now waaaay off topic I will end this here. Perhaps in future you could start your own thread asking the very same questions you have previously rather than use someone else's thread which has nothing to do with your topic.

Cheers

Jimmy

[t.s]

I wonder what's wrong with 'us' at Thaivisa.....?

Please, allow me to explain the above.

I have read the OP's story and understand his grieve about his 'wife-to-be' and son; meaning they left back to the UK, not able to cope with the life and circumstances in Pattaya and/or Thailand.

This topic had an astonishing 240+ replies and 17 pages so far....

On the other hand, there is this story that had a 'mere' 4 pages of replies which was about a 5 year old child on Samui who was brutally murdered -his throat was slit- whilst the same attempt was made on his mother.

My question is:

WHAT ON EARTH IS MORE IMPORTANT ?

Read for yourself:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=110931

To the OP:

I am sorry to 'brake-in' to your thread with my post and understand your struggle about your loved ones and what to do next. I just wanted to 'shake' the audience at TV a little in order to have everybody -including myself- understand a bit more what life is all about.

LaoPo

what would you have us do, contribute to a thread that can change nothing? sit around in morbid contemplation of someone elses misfortune?

the act is complete. its over. our endless analysis of the situation can do nothing. perhaps we could all send self serving little one lines like "go with god" or "rest in peace" that the victim will never see.

Better yet lets all sit behind our keyboards and bang out essays that truly demonstrate our indignation. yeah i feel better now.

at least here we are communicating with someone directly involved instead of sitting on the sidelines passing comment that goes unheard and acheives nothing

Edited March 21, 2007 by t.s

[sbk]

Lets get back on topic please

[garro]

Too True said

I have a few Thai women friends and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world, and some of them do seem to have that judging form the way the spend their farang husbands' money.

and

I chose to come here and immerse myself in the culture and learn the language and marry a citizen of this country and have kids here.

I am sorry TooTrue but for somebody who has immersed themselves in Thai culture you seem to have developed a very shallow view of Thai women. Some Thai women may actually be with Farang men for other reasons than money. My wife certainly isn't with me for money as I have none.

I think that it is very unfair that, it is OK to suggest that Thai women go with farang men for money yet I don't think my post would last long if I questioned why Thai men go with Farang women.

[solent01]

It would be nice to hear from the OP again, has he made a decision yet? Does he feel a little better today? Are we helping any?

[bkkmadness]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

we will never know the answer to that one and lets just say its a 50/ 50 gamble.

If it's a 50 / 50 gamble, then I would take the bet for the sake of my kids.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

"On the other hand, there is this story that had a 'mere' 4 pages of replies which was about a 5 year old child on Samui who was brutally murdered -his throat was slit- ph34r.gif whilst the same attempt was made on his mother.

WHAT ON EARTH IS MORE IMPORTANT ?"

By this daft logic, we should still be discussing the tsunami, or the Thai-Burmese wars of the 18th century.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

we will never know the answer to that one and lets just say its a 50/ 50 gamble.

If it's a 50 / 50 gamble, then I would take the bet for the sake of my kids.

Fully agree with that bkkmadness. I would take odds a lot worse than that for the sake of my family.

Cheers

Jimmy

[bkkmadness]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

we will never know the answer to that one and lets just say its a 50/ 50 gamble.

If it's a 50 / 50 gamble, then I would take the bet for the sake of my kids.

Fully agree with that bkkmadness. I would take odds a lot worse than that for the sake of my family.

Cheers

Jimmy

I think only a coward wouldn't.

Barney we are starting a thread up about the Bubonic Plague, I'm sure we have not grieved enough yet!

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

Quote bkkmadness;

Barney we are starting a thread up about the Bubonic Plague, I'm sure we have not grieved enough yet!

[too true]

Too True said

I have a few Thai women friends and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world, and some of them do seem to have that judging form the way the spend their farang husbands' money.

and

I chose to come here and immerse myself in the culture and learn the language and marry a citizen of this country and have kids here.

I am sorry TooTrue but for somebody who has immersed themselves in Thai culture you seem to have developed a very shallow view of Thai women. Some Thai women may actually be with Farang men for other reasons than money. My wife certainly isn't with me for money as I have none.

I think that it is very unfair that, it is OK to suggest that Thai women go with farang men for money yet I don't think my post would last long if I questioned why Thai men go with Farang women.

It was a figure of speech. A way of emphasising a point. Sincere apologies if you took it to heart. Oh, and I don't have any "views" on "Thai women" - there are like 35 million of them here. I wouldn't dare form an opinion of that many people. I've met stellar Thai women. I've also met some I'd like to slap. That's also true for farang women, Thai men, farang men I've met in this country.

my husband has no money either. perhaps your wife and I could start a support group

Cheers,

tt

[garro]

Too True said

I have a few Thai women friends and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world, and some of them do seem to have that judging form the way the spend their farang husbands' money.

and

I chose to come here and immerse myself in the culture and learn the language and marry a citizen of this country and have kids here.

I am sorry TooTrue but for somebody who has immersed themselves in Thai culture you seem to have developed a very shallow view of Thai women. Some Thai women may actually be with Farang men for other reasons than money. My wife certainly isn't with me for money as I have none.

I think that it is very unfair that, it is OK to suggest that Thai women go with farang men for money yet I don't think my post would last long if I questioned why Thai men go with Farang women.

It was a figure of speech. A way of emphasising a point. Sincere apologies if you took it to heart. Oh, and I don't have any "views" on "Thai women" - there are like 35 million of them here. I wouldn't dare form an opinion of that many people. I've met stellar Thai women. I've also met some I'd like to slap. That's also true for farang women, Thai men, farang men I've met in this country.

my husband has no money either. perhaps your wife and I could start a support group

Cheers,

tt

Sorry TT, today is particulary hot here and making me grouchy. I am sure my wife would love to join your support group BTW, I started another thread about this and feel a bit stupid now. Sooooory

[qwertz]

What a nice long thread and how nice to see, apart from the odd peevish post, that so many people are so ready with good advice from both sides of life. It's also one of the few threads where the ladies can really take part without seeing the usual old boy talk. Very civilised input, thank you ladies for striking the balance. We should all thank copter for giving us a hot potato to debate. BTW, is he still with us or on the way to Blighty for a reconciliation? Haven't seen any input from him for a while.

[Mobi]

This is a personal observation, rather than a complaint.

While I find this kind of thread quite interesting, and while I am willing to contribute (hopefully) constructive advice, I have to say that after about 8 pages, there is very little -if anything - new or interesting that is posted, and the thread just goes round and round - straying off topic, with endless arguments amongst a few members who hold differing viewpoints, and frankly it just becomes boring.

If you look at this particular thread, you can easily conclude that the OP got all the advice he is ever likely to need in the first 6 pages - ranging from 'take the first plane home, marry the girl and take care of the kids', to 'tell her to bu..er off and enjoy himself with all the ladies in LOS', and just about anything in between.

I accept that new readers of this topic may wish to add their own four penneth, but the reality is that everything has already been said, and there is nothing new to add.

The same applies to the recent "mood of the forum" thread which went on forever, and I guess most threads that go past about 6 -8 pages.

Just my personal view. Others obviously enjoy never ending discussions that have nothing new to say.

Flame away guys and girls

[too true]

Too True said

I have a few Thai women friends and I wouldn't trade places with them for all the money in the world, and some of them do seem to have that judging form the way the spend their farang husbands' money.

and

I chose to come here and immerse myself in the culture and learn the language and marry a citizen of this country and have kids here.

I am sorry TooTrue but for somebody who has immersed themselves in Thai culture you seem to have developed a very shallow view of Thai women. Some Thai women may actually be with Farang men for other reasons than money. My wife certainly isn't with me for money as I have none.

I think that it is very unfair that, it is OK to suggest that Thai women go with farang men for money yet I don't think my post would last long if I questioned why Thai men go with Farang women.

It was a figure of speech. A way of emphasising a point. Sincere apologies if you took it to heart. Oh, and I don't have any "views" on "Thai women" - there are like 35 million of them here. I wouldn't dare form an opinion of that many people. I've met stellar Thai women. I've also met some I'd like to slap. That's also true for farang women, Thai men, farang men I've met in this country.

my husband has no money either. perhaps your wife and I could start a support group

Cheers,

tt

Sorry TT, today is particulary hot here and making me grouchy. I am sure my wife would love to join your support group BTW, I started another thread about this and feel a bit stupid now. Sooooory

I just read it and was writing a nice reply to it and then when I tried to post it was told it was locked. RAts! Oh well. Words are often misconstrued on internet forums.

Congratulations on your pregnancy (that's the plural your, of course). It's a very exciting time. Not to be missed.

wink wink nudge nudge to the OP.

Just trying to keep on topic

[markuk]

i think that loads of us who are unlucky enough to have expat wives struggle when we come here, my own situation we had lived overseas in 3 other countries (she is asian though) and never lived in Europe, decided to come to Thailand and ended up with loads of problems for alll the reasons written about, still we have stuck it here for 2.5 years and will be moving soon. I think that Thailand has been a great experience but family life could have been better and there have been many lessons learned for when we move to next asian country!!

[lannarebirth]

i think that loads of us who are unlucky enough to have expat wives struggle when we come here, my own situation we had lived overseas in 3 other countries (she is asian though) and never lived in Europe, decided to come to Thailand and ended up with loads of problems for alll the reasons written about, still we have stuck it here for 2.5 years and will be moving soon. I think that Thailand has been a great experience but family life could have been better and there have been many lessons learned for when we move to next asian country!!

markuk,

From what yo've said, you seem well qualified to lend some valuable insight to this topic. Would you care to expand on your comments, so others might benefit from your experience?

[Mossfinn]

If you look at this particular thread, you can easily conclude that the OP got all the advice he is ever likely to need in the first 6 pages

Heli, would appear to be of the same opinion, as he hasn't posted since #145.

Good Luck, I hope you make the right decision for all concerned.

Moss

[sbk]

Agree with Mobi D and Mossfinn.

Once the OP has decided what to do he may (or may not, after some of the opinions expressed here ) come back and and let us all know how it turns out.

Good luck to you and your family

****Closed****