Problems with Hanoi thai embassy and ED language visas

[donnacha]

10 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

What I am writing on a daily basis on this forum, is appearently what many posters need to hear over and over, because they do not understand otherwise.

Instead of writing, over and over, words that people do not understand, why not take the time to gather your thoughts and write more clearly?

 

[spiekerjozef]

20 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

 I take care of my problems according to the letter of the law, and that´s what all people that need an ED-visa have to do to.

But that's the problem. It's not written in no thai consulate in the region how much money you need in the bank nor that you can get only 1 ED visa. (or 1 in a year or 1 in one passport)

Yes a trip back home and get it there seems the best option now. But if they would actually write down what they need or what you can't have/do. That would help a lot of people saving a trip to a neighbouring country that ends in tears.....

[Matzzon]

31 minutes ago, spiekerjozef said:

But that's the problem. It's not written in no thai consulate in the region how much money you need in the bank nor that you can get only 1 ED visa. (or 1 in a year or 1 in one passport)

Yes a trip back home and get it there seems the best option now. But if they would actually write down what they need or what you can't have/do. That would help a lot of people saving a trip to a neighbouring country that ends in tears.....

True, but as I understand it, you only have to apply for one ED per year if your study period is 1 year it will be extended up to a year. Just coming here and take a short study for 4 month, after choose another for 3 month and then a thrird for maybe 5 month looks more like just take whatever study for can stay in Thailand. That´s clearly not what they want, and common sense would make people understand that by now.

If it will regard how much money to show or per month they should tell an amount, I totally agree. On the other hand it would also be common sense to have enough to show, due to that it´s not allowed to engege in ANY kind of work with that visa category.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Matzzon

[Matzzon]

53 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Instead of writing, over and over, words that people do not understand, why not take the time to gather your thoughts and write more clearly?

 

If you do not understand what I am writing, then it will probably be the same kind of issue with getting a Thai visa or extension. You just don´t understand. Can´t write it more clear than I´ve done. To many people have been using tourist and ED-visas for the wrong purposes and together with working illegally. That´s why they have mede it harder for everybody nowadays. If you and more people understand that, maybe we can get on good foot with Immigration again, as it were for 12-15 years ago.

[Matzzon]

15 hours ago, donnacha said:

Wear a shirt when you go to an embassy or consulate folks!

Yes, it is also considered common sense to dress properly when visiting an authority that represents the country you would like to enter.

Regarding all the other things that falls under "self-sabotage", it´s probably just that they under long time seen that this is the common marks or looks of the ones they have most problem with.

 

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

No mate, you're dreaming. I've experienced this first-hand, countless times: a Thai will tell you how happy they are to have been hired, how grateful they are, how hard they will work ... then they simply don't turn up the next day because it turned out the job involved some trifling level of effort.

I'm not talking about bottom-of-the-barrel jobs, or working for some seedy farang, I am talking about real opportunities, working for and learning from talented Thais.

Forget, too, about training a Thai employee. There is no graver offense than suggesting that there might be a better way of doing something. Thais in their 20s simply will not tolerate that level of abuse.

As far as I have been able to figure it out, young Thais might be in chronic debt and almost entirely supported by their families, but they feel no pressure whatsoever to stick with any job that does not fulfill all their wildest fantasies. Meanwhile, the Burmese, Laos, and Hill-tribe folk will turn up, do the work, and eagerly grasp any opportunity you give them.

 

You know, this is exactly how the Thai-Chinese families ended up running the country.
 

Your continous abuse of Thai people when it comes to something you collect under what you would like to call the common Thai, is not only abusive and degrading of the population in the country you soo eagerly want to be able to stay in. It´s also wrong. I give you an advice. Why don´t you spout your common garbage to the Immigration officer instead and see if he/she will be more pleased to let you in. It´s exactly people with your dreadful opinion of the Thai population that they do not need here.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Matzzon

[spiekerjozef]

Totally agree

[dcnx]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

No I am not...

If they have an ED Visa, they should be attending the required studies and even show proficiency.

 

That is not usually the case, the schools are simply supplying a path to Visas. You need to attend a few classes to see the fact it is a scam to obtain visas, and give foreigners an opportunity to work as tour guides illegally.

 

You do not quote the pertinent law, so I am not as sure of the intention of it as you are. 

What in the hell are you talking about? I took 3 years of Thai and I actually learned how to read and write. It wasn’t a visa scam. The schools you can see at various malls are often full of students.
 

Immigration cracked down on the visa scam schools a while ago. 

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, donnacha said:

No, trust me, you are.

 

 
That is an issue of enforcement.

 

So ... this is based on ... what? Anecdote? Your personal experience?

 

So, you're saying that Westerners are flooding into Thailand to work as ... tour guides?

 

I am saying that there is no such law, which means I do not have to quote it. Sorry if this is difficult for you. If you are saying that there IS a law, you are the one who must specify it.

 

Again, sorry if I have pitched this above your cognitive abilities. That point I was clearly making was that each Ed visa recipient, even the scruffy ones, are injecting money into Thailand. They are a net profit for the country.

A low-level Vietnamese administrative worker in the Thai consulate should not, based on their own prejudices, be overriding the safeguards that are already in place. If those safeguards are not sufficient, they should be strengthened or more forcefully enforced by the relevant Thai authorities.

The current rules are in place, and enforced to the extent they are, precisely because it has been decided that is the correct balance for Thailand's current needs.

Believe it or not, there is a substantial majority of Thais who are happy to have foreigners pay three times the annual minimum wage for a visa, and then a load more money on living costs, simply in order to spend time in Thailand. They actually think we are lunatics who are throwing our money away.

Hardcore nationalists, on the other hand, are not happy with any foreigners being in Thailand, but they are a tiny minority who would not have any authority in a normal democratic situation. They only have influence now because the junta are desperate to leap upon any potentially popular bandwagon.

 

Learn something, I am not. 

 

Witnesses.

 

It isn't only Westerners who try to get ED Visas, duh!

 

You seem to be the type who cannot have a discussion without personal comment, grow up. 

 

The money you and students inject into Thailand is small and irrelevant, stop harping on about a few barfines! They don't care about that.

 

Many Thais also are fed up of foreigners,  Especially those who think they have a holier than thou right of abode because they spend a few baht, and game the system. 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, dcnx said:

What in the hell are you talking about? I took 3 years of Thai and I actually learned how to read and write. It wasn’t a visa scam. The schools you can see at various malls are often full of students.
 

Immigration cracked down on the visa scam schools a while ago. 

Great, an example of one. 

My point is, it still goes on, where ED Visas are simply being used not for purpose. 

[onera1961]

On 8/24/2019 at 7:04 AM, JandT said:

What doesnt make any sense is that the people are getting the documents from the Thai Ministry of Education giving them permission to study in Thailand and yet are still being denied at the embassy when they go to apply. If they don't want people to study in Thailand why are they even approving those documents in the first place?

Education ministry and immigration have different goals. Education does not care about your history of living in Thailand. We all know that Thai language learning is a ruse for staying long-term in Thailand which immigration has a goal of reducing. People just don't wake up 10,000 miles from Thailand and decide that they would learn Thai and come to Thailand on a tourist a visa and then try to get an ED visa in a neighboring country. 

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, donnacha said:

So, exactly what jobs, that could be performed by Thais, are being taken by people on Education visas?

You see how you're twisting the sentence. I said without a work permit and you're saying performed by Thais. Any job you do in a foreign country needs a work permit. Thailand does not have any obligation or has signed any international treaty to allow foreigners to stay long-term on Tourist/ED visas. 

 

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, donnacha said:

All they are doing is magically generating money from the not-Thailand universe and, then, merrily spunking it into the Thai economy.

If a wealthy Chinese or Indian go to USA and tell the immigration that I would be merrily spending my own money that average Americans earn in their life time, they won't allow him to stay in the USA for indefinite time. They will ask him to buy an E5 visa. If somebody is wealthy, there are ways to stay legally in any country one wishes. 

[theonetrueaussie]

On 8/25/2019 at 11:57 AM, Matzzon said:

If you do not understand what I am writing, then it will probably be the same kind of issue with getting a Thai visa or extension. You just don´t understand. Can´t write it more clear than I´ve done. To many people have been using tourist and ED-visas for the wrong purposes and together with working illegally. That´s why they have mede it harder for everybody nowadays. If you and more people understand that, maybe we can get on good foot with Immigration again, as it were for 12-15 years ago.

So what who cares if digital nomads/ bloggers etc come here and have a blog that earns them money. They are taking nothing away from thais and not only contributing financially to the country but also tourist wise. What you fail to realize and the thai government as well is that many of those bloggers rank quite high on youtube and google so for the last 10-12 years potential tourists have seen their stuff and then decided to come to Thailand. All their content would have been positive about thailand as well, NOW many have had to move away their content is all positive about their new country of residence BUT they also have 10-12 years of negative content about thailand that they never posted...until now. 

No wonder thailands tourism is trending down while vietnam and neighbouring countries are absolutely loving all the positive press.

[ThaiBrian]

I barely got approved for my 2nd tourist visa for Thailand, both trips were to Hanoi. I'm still here but 2 other people that I know got rejected. One applied for a tourist visa and has a history of doing border runs, not many as he's only been live in Thailand for a year. The other applied for his 2nd ED visa (also here for a year) and got rejected. Both of them didn't really get an answer why they were rejected, but instead we all got a slip for reasons why were (in my case, if I come back) rejected. So be warned, they are seriously cracking down and I would not recommend this embassy unless it is your first time.

[spiekerjozef]

Yes heard this too.

Stuff 200,000 baht in the bank is the minimum they want to see.

[ThaiBrian]

The bank statement I showed had roughly 50,000 THB. But I also provided onward flight to Los Angeles 85 days from now. Ridiculous. The other guy wasn't so lucky, had even more money in the account and an onward ticket to Los Angeles. If they want to see more money in the account then they should have asked and I would have transferred more into it. 

 

Also to note, my paper work was stapled in front of me and possibly stamped? It makes me wonder if they made an exception for me on the spot? There was a note in Thai on my passport. I'm just happy I was one of the lucky few to be approved. 3 months ago there were more of us and from what I remember, nobody got rejected.

Edited February 7, 2020 by ThaiBrian

[Isaanbiker]

On 8/24/2019 at 7:53 PM, Matzzon said:

Nope, we are not! As you said the reason was that they want to see money. A perfectly fair requirement, due to that you can´t live and stay if you do not have. This is probably an effect of that too many people have been living on ED visas year after year, and attending 1-2 lessons per week, at the same time as working to have money for stay. I would say it´s a shape up and a smart move to get rid of a part of the people that otherwise would abuse their permission to stay.

This is probably an effect of that too many people have been living on ED visas year after year, and attending 1-2 lessons per week, at the same time as working to have money for stay.

 

I totally agree with you. I'm certain that there are "schools" that do not really care if someone comes in to study.

 

How many people would come to Thailand to study Thai, if they could have a one year visa for 5K?

 

It's mostly just a business to give a paying person a document to be able to stay here. 

 

My point being is that this type of visa- the ED, is one of the reasons for so many changes in the whole immigration system that make it harder for us to live here. 

 

I'm not trying to say anything bad about people who really come here and study Thai at a language school. Peace. ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

This is probably an effect of that too many people have been living on ED visas year after year, and attending 1-2 lessons per week, at the same time as working to have money for stay.

 

I totally agree with you. I'm certain that there are "schools" that do not really care if someone comes in to study.

 

How many people would come to Thailand to study Thai, if they could have a one year visa for 5K?

 

It's mostly just a business to give a paying person a document to be able to stay here. 

 

My point being is that this type of visa- the ED, is one of the reasons for so many changes in the whole immigration system that make it harder for us to live here. 

 

I'm not trying to say anything bad about people who really come here and study Thai at a language school. Peace. ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would bit more harsh than yourself.

Mainly younger folk obtaining ed visa to study Thai.

That's a crock. An obscure language spoken by in the main one country. 

The purpose is to use back door to have longer stay than some visas allow.

 

[DrJack54]

Just to add for other readers. If you have previous ED visa then obtaining setv after that is very problematic. (I wonder why..joke)

Chap thread month back flew to Saigon to obtain setv after ed visa. Yes he had history staying in Los. Passport returned with void stamp. 

Ultimately flew Saigon to CNX. Stamped in visa exempt. Lucky.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

This is probably an effect of that too many people have been living on ED visas year after year, and attending 1-2 lessons per week, at the same time as working to have money for stay.

 

I totally agree with you. I'm certain that there are "schools" that do not really care if someone comes in to study.

 

How many people would come to Thailand to study Thai, if they could have a one year visa for 5K?

 

It's mostly just a business to give a paying person a document to be able to stay here. 

 

My point being is that this type of visa- the ED, is one of the reasons for so many changes in the whole immigration system that make it harder for us to live here. 

 

I'm not trying to say anything bad about people who really come here and study Thai at a language school. Peace. ????

 

You are 100 % correct! Unfortunately, both you and me know this is an area where the abuse is greater than the will to study.