One owner with online TM.30 and multiple occupants - Can each occupant have separate accounts?

[spambot]

 

If a condo has multiple occupants renting from a single owner that already has registered for online TM.30 account for the building - Should each occupant after they are away for 24 hrs ask the owner to submit a new TM.30 in their account or can each occupant use a separate account for their individual condo to do this?

[Maestro]

Your post confuses me. With condo, do you mean the condominium building or your condominium unit?

[spambot]

13 hours ago, Maestro said:

Your post confuses me. With condo, do you mean the condominium building or your condominium unit?

Yup - I agree I have badly worded this: 

 

"If a condo has multiple occupants renting from a single owner"

should have read: 

"If a condominium building has multiple condominium units that are renting from single owner of the condominium building"

 

Hence let me start again:

If the building has many condominiums and the building owner has an online TM.30 account for registering all his renters that stay in the individual condominium units. If any one of the renters applied for an individual TM.30 online account would this be possible for the individual to to stay away for 24hrs and on return to use their Individual TM.30 online account to submit TM.30 or would the building owner who has an online TM.30 account for the whole building be the only one that could do this for the returning renter?

Edited August 28, 2019 by spambot

[Tanoshi]

If the condominium owner has a TM30 account and has already assumed the responsibility of reporting foreign occupants, why would you want a separate account.

Just notify the owner of your return.

[spambot]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If the condominium owner has a TM30 account and has already assumed the responsibility of reporting foreign occupants, why would you want a separate account.

Just notify the owner of your return.

Because he is only at the building 15% of the time and is usually overseas.

[MJKT2014]

8 minutes ago, spambot said:

Because he is only at the building 15% of the time and is usually overseas.

The owner would need as assistant to do it for him.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, spambot said:

Because he is only at the building 15% of the time and is usually overseas.

So how is he aware of the comings and goings of his tenants.

Is there no management team assuming responsibilities in his absence.

[spambot]

3 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

The owner would need as assistant to do it for him.

Only arrives when new occupants check in and the TM.30 needs to be submitted within 24 hrs and hence can not guarantee to be there at the right time.

[jackdd]

Are you talking about a condominium or about an apartment?

If it's really a condominium the owner has a seperate TM30 account for each condo unit which he owns in this condominium building.

Edited August 28, 2019 by jackdd

[spambot]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Are you talking about a condominium or about an apartment?

If it's really a condominium the owner has a seperate TM30 account for each condo unit which he owns in this condominium building.

Good response - Yes you are correct to ask this since I should have called them apartments since I can not buy nor is it managed by a Homeowners' Association (HOA).  

 

I would normally refer to the units as apartments, but on my actual rental contract and my statements each month it is refereed to as a condominium - But as  i understand the actual main difference between a condo and an apartment is ownership. Condos are usually managed by a Homeowners' Association (HOA), but each individual unit has a separate owner. You have the option to purchase a condo, as you would a house. ... On the other hand, individual apartment units cannot be purchased. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by spambot

[spambot]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

So how is he aware of the comings and goings of his tenants.

Is there no management team assuming responsibilities in his absence.

I know you are trying to help however my question is less about the internal management of the building and is really about if a TM.30 submissions can be done by individuals in the building.

[Tanoshi]

OK, I've just read another of your posts in another topic which you haven't advised of.

Quote

I applied for online TM.30 registration and got my user name and password after 10 days for BKK /CW. I got the following email (translated by google). It informs me that the address is already approved, but also has cc the response to a different email to my email I used for the application. I am presuming this cc email address (when I check with the condo owner where I rent) this will be his email that he used for TM.30 submissions. 

 

I am not clear from the response if the email has given me the user name and password believing I am the owner and has provided me with a new user name and password or is this a normal practice for issuing a sub account for a possessor within a building where the owner has already registered for multiple condos owned?

 

Email - received. 

The staff has already approved the registration. You can use the accommodation notification system.
 By using the login name and password below.
 USER: xxxxxxxxxx
 PASSWORD: xxxxxxxx

 When you use the PASSWORD sent by the system to Login, the system will force to change PASSWORD. You need to change PASSWORD to use the system for the next time.

 

You need to communicate with the owner to sort it out.

Was he issued the same username and password?

You'll be prompted to change the password, will that affect his registration?

He's obviously been notified of your registration via cc mail.

 

Personally as the address is already registered, I suspect CW have issued you a separate username and password to that of the owner. However if you intend to file separately and not cause confusion, you should advise the owner you will now take responsibility for filing a TM30 for your Condo.

It would have been appropriate to consult him before you registered as an individual.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Tanoshi

[spambot]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

OK, I've just read another of your posts in another topic which you haven't advised of.

 

You need to communicate with the owner to sort it out.

Was he issued the same username and password?

You'll be prompted to change the password, will that affect his registration?

He's obviously been notified of your registration via cc mail.

 

Personally as the address is already registered, I suspect CW have issued you a separate username and password to that of the owner. However if you intend to file separately and not cause confusion, you should advise the owner you will now take responsibility for filing a TM30 for your Condo.

It would have appropriate to consult him before you registered as an individual.

Yup - Good answer - I will contact him, but currently he is not contactable and unclear when back - However your points are clear and useful and well made and I intend to follow your advice. Thanks

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, spambot said:

Yup - Good answer - I will contact him, but currently he is not contactable and unclear when back - However your points are clear and useful and well made and I intend to follow your advice. Thanks

The owner may not be aware of the recent enforcements at CW, in particular the requirement to refile a TM30 if you were out of Province for more than 24 hours and a TM30 was filed elsewhere, which requires a new TM30 to be filed at CW on return to your Condo.

 

I'd advise him of such and hence the reason you registered separately, as he's unavailable for extended periods. The main thing is to establish if you have separate user ID's and passwords.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, spambot said:

I know you are trying to help however my question is less about the internal management of the building and is really about if a TM.30 submissions can be done by individuals in the building.

I am no expert in this matter, but understand the process, so here's my 2 cents worth of advice.

 

It's obvious that when the home owner is only occasionally at his property that he is not able to properly and timely do the TM-30 administration of his tenants. 

And at this moment you cannot do it yourself, unless you are provided with the username:password of the owner to do the TM-30 uploads.

 

So I see 3 options:

a) The owner appoints somebody as responsible for upkeeping the tenants TM-30 administration, and tenants need to tell that person on their return from a trip, that they are back and their TM-30 has to be updated;

b) The owner changes the present multiple tenant TM-30 system, and splits it up per apartment with each apartment having the possibility to upload changes to their TM-30 status individually;

c) The owner provides the tenant or tenants with his username:password so that they can do their own TM-30 administration on his spreadsheet.
 

[spambot]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

The owner may not be aware of the recent enforcements at CW, in particular the requirement to refile a TM30 if you were out of Province for more than 24 hours and a TM30 was filed elsewhere, which requires a new TM30 to be filed at CW on return to your Condo.

 

I'd advise him of such and hence the reason you registered separately, as he's unavailable for extended periods. The main thing is to establish if you have separate user ID's and passwords.

Yes - Agree - Very useful input from your end - Thanks for doing this.

[mtls2005]

I doubt anyone at Immigration, or the application developer, has thought out all the permutations possible.

 

Very generally speaking, I would have assumed that a house, townhouse, condo would all have a unique government-issued "house number", and that each house number can only be registered once, within the TM30 system. These units, if rented, would fall under the same scheme. Allowing multiple registrations for a single domicile seems, well, strange. But if no one is checking it is probably happening.

 

Apartment buildings, for the most part, have one single house number, so these are bit more like hotels in that one building would have one TM30 registration, with one person overseeing the reporting of all units (yes, the username and PW could be shared with tenants). Who knows what happens when one tenant manages to register their entire building with a single TM30 account? I would assume all others, including the owner, would be locked out?

 

So one person, owning two or more condos, in the same building or different buildings, would have to separately register each condo, and file reports as required, separately, for those foreigners to whom they are renting. Yes, they could give out the username and PW to the tenant to allow a form of self-reporting.

 

Based on reports here, it seems like some folks renting condos are able to register their domicile, who knows that affects future tenants?

 

At least that's how local (Bangkok) Imm officials explained it to us. YMMV.

 

If in doubt, work with the owner, their legal represenatative and Immigration to sort out the particulars of your speciifc and unqiue situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by mtls2005

[spambot]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I doubt anyone at Immigration, or the application developer, has thought out all the permutations possible.

 

Very generally speaking, I would have assumed that a house, townhouse, condo would all have a unique government-issued "house number", and that each hosue number can only be registered once, within the TM30 system. These units, if rented, would fall under the same scheme. Allowing multiple registrations for a single domicile seems, well, strange. But if no one is checking it is probably happening.

 

Apartment buildings, for the most part, have one single house number, so these are bit more like hotels in that one building would have one TM30 registration, with one person overseeing the reporting of all units (yes, the usernam and PW could be shared with tenants).

 

So one person, owning two or more condos, in the same building or different buildings, would have to separately register each condo, and file reports as required, separately.

 

At least that's how local (Bangkok) Imm officials explained it to us. YMMV.

 

 

 

 

Its good to get your feedback especially in identifying the different permutations that could be possible, when I originally made my application it simply did not occur to me that this scenario could exist and I might be in conflict - And I am also betting that from your insight that CW immigration have not thought about this either.

[spambot]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I am no expert in this matter, but understand the process, so here's my 2 cents worth of advice.

 

It's obvious that when the home owner is only occasionally at his property that he is not able to properly and timely do the TM-30 administration of his tenants. 

And at this moment you cannot do it yourself, unless you are provided with the username:password of the owner to do the TM-30 uploads.

 

So I see 3 options:

a) The owner appoints somebody as responsible for upkeeping the tenants TM-30 administration, and tenants need to tell that person on their return from a trip, that they are back and their TM-30 has to be updated;

b) The owner changes the present multiple tenant TM-30 system, and splits it up per apartment with each apartment having the possibility to upload changes to their TM-30 status individually;

c) The owner provides the tenant or tenants with his username:password so that they can do their own TM-30 administration on his spreadsheet.
 

Your 3 options absolutely make sense and I guess that I will be the one who takes direction from the owner rather than being the giver. However these solutions allow for a more reasonable dialogue to find a solution 

[jackdd]

The TM30 says "housemaster, owner or possessor of the residence"

Imho a unit in an apartment can't be considered a residence (a unit in a condo can, because it has its own house number).

So imho you are neither the housemaster, owner or possessor, which means you have no obligation and no right to submit a TM30.

The owner / management of your apartment has to submit the TM30 for you if you notify them that you were away and just came back.

I think my explanation is logical, an IO might of course see it different.

Edited August 28, 2019 by jackdd

[spambot]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The TM30 says "housemaster, owner or possessor of the residence"

Imho a unit in an apartment can't be considered a residence (a unit in a condo can, because it has its own house number).

So imho you are neither the housemaster, owner or possessor, which means you have no obligation and no right to submit a TM30.

The owner / management of your apartment has to submit the TM30 for you if you notify them that you were away and just came back.

Ahhhh - Excellent observation - and yes "residence" is the important definition as its not defining a unit in the residence or any kind of sub address for the residence. That does make perfect sense - Thanks