Meeting with Immigration a missed opportunity

[Bangkok Barry]

14 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

The UK/USA & Australia have much tougher entry requirements for living there. I doubt a postman, squaddie or taxi driver from Thailand are likely to ever be retiring in the West as they are unable to be meeting entry requirements. If Thailand had the same entry requirements for living as the UK, half the people whinging now would probably never have been accepted to settle here.

 

Perhaps the UK should follow Thailand in allowing anyone to enter and live here on extensions, phony education visas etc

 

Who gives a toss if you have to report this and that? Its not really that much of an issue. A minor inconvenience. Treated like a criminal, Christ get a grip. You obviously have far to much time on your hands to be constantly thinking about this.

 

 

Well, I'm pleased for you that you don't mind being kept on a leash and made to jump through pointless hoops. If I have to report to immigration to ask if I might have permission to remain for another few weeks to take care of my Thai family (as long as I dump a considerable sum of money in a Thai bank, of course), or leave the country after 90 days and re-enter five minutes later, I consider that as being I am on probation. Don't report and then there's big trouble, even though I've been married for nearly 30 years and lived in Thailand for 25+. Normal countries don't operate like that.

Foreigners are being targeted as a threat to national security, despite 99.99 per-cent of the crime in the country and the threat to national security coming from the Thais themselves. Some of the crime, taking bribes, is even committed by the very people that regard us as potential criminals. Ironic, isn't it.

 

But, as I said, if you're happy then good for you. Many obviously have a different perspective, which is why the TM30 has received worldwide attention and why it was thought necessary to call a meeting with the authorites over it.

 

And anyway, we are talking about Thailand here, and not what other countries do or don't or might do. Totally irrelevant.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Bangkok Barry

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Well, I'm pleased for you that you don't mind being kept on a leash and made to jump through pointless hoops. If I have to report to immigration to ask if I might have permission to remain for another few weeks to take care of my Thai family (as long as I dump a considerable sum of money in a Thai bank, of course), or leave the country after 90 days and re-enter five minutes later, I consider that as being I am on probation. Don't report and then there's big trouble, even though I've been married for nearly 30 years and lived in Thailand for 25+. Normal countries don't operate like that.

Foreigners are being targeted as a threat to national security, despite 99.99 per-cent of the crime in the country and the threat to national security coming from the Thais themselves. Some of the crime, taking bribes, is even committed by the very people that regard us as potential criminals. Ironic, isn't it. But, as I said, if you're happy then good for you.

I report to immigration for about 5 mins every 365 days, not exactly on a leash. You have been here for 25 years and you are still going in and out of the country every 90 days? I suppose that would get very annoying, but that's your choice to do.

 

99.99% of any crime in any country is by local people. I dont see how the TM30 is expected to help with National Security, but its a relatively minor thing let them have their little games to play.  Talking about them seeing us a criminals? Who cares? why does it even bother you? I am sure even the immigration officials dont give a toss, its just there job being told what to do. They dont really think everyone is a criminal and they know that this is not going to catch criminals, but let them do their thing. Running around crying about it complaining its Thais who are a threat to National Security etc etc is not going to help, its just going to raise your blood pressure.

[ColeBOzbourne]

8 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Guests???? We are treated like criminals, not guests. no fairminded person would actually think we are "guests" in this Banana Republic country.

I ask you CB, do you seriously believe you are a "guest" in this country??

I've stated it multiple times, so isn't it obvious I seriously believe we are 'guests'? Oh how you exaggerate...criminals are handcuffed and thrown in jail. You have to follow a few simple regulations and you really believe you are treated like a "criminal"? Typical of social mentality today, wake up every morning and search for something to be outraged about.

[Felt 35]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Some of the crime, taking bribes, is even committed by the very people that regard us as potential criminals.

Therein lies the reason to what you describe as a bit tame questions, bribes can unfortunately still do a lot in this country, even silence people.

[ColeBOzbourne]

None of us received a golden invitation in the mail to come here. We all came here and requested permission to stay, we are voluntary guests. All this complaining and demanding makes me think some of you would show up at somebody's house uninvited, ask permission to enter, and maybe eat or stay, and then begin making complaints and demands about anything that inconveniences you or that you don't take a liking to. That same door you entered is still there and works just as well as an exit.

[fhickson]

21 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I report to immigration for about 5 mins every 365 days, not exactly on a leash. You have been here for 25 years and you are still going in and out of the country every 90 days? I suppose that would get very annoying, but that's your choice to do.

not really. in fact, im enjoying my trips more and more to vietnam each time. did you know its taboo to even step into an immigration office there? everything is done via agent, cheaply.

[sherwood]

5 hours ago, john ianson said:

You do NOT own any land ! Not ONE square inch of land !

Going back to post #80

You are right, I do not own any land but I did say we own the land and that joint ownership has been noted with the Land Office. What more can I do?

I live in Thailand, legally. Do you.....

[NCC1701A]

"I hear Farangs had big meeting. When they going to learn?"

[Thaidream]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

you'd watched it, you'd have no doubt saved yourself the trouble of drafting the questions in the opening post. As movies go, it would put a dampener on anyone's evening. It's right up there with the one where Lassie choked to death on red tape, surely in line for a 0% fresh rating on rotten tomatoes.

 

However, I don't think the foreign representatives were to blame, even though things became unfocused at times. I think they had no real choice but to limit the scope of the meeting to the TM30 problem. The chair of the event in particular was a seasoned journalist and asked some very direct questions, but the immigration contingent that showed up was half an hour late and the only one with any significant authority wasn't really proficient in English, and at times became visibly irritated, looking as though he was ready to walk out. The other people they sent were of sufficiently low rank that they were unable to answer anything other than a few technical questions. The overall response was very noncommittal, and pointed questions were met with vague platitudes like "the law is the law", and regarding the app "it's easier than telling your wife your home". Later on the IO who'd said this admitted that he couldn't even get home to see his eight months pregnant wife as he was stuck at work till 10pm every night trying to deal with the backlog of online TM30 applications awaiting usernames and passwords. When confronted with the fact that their administrative chaos was a self-inflicted wound, they reverted to embarrassed silence. Whatever questions people had taken in there failed to land, except in the very loose sense of "we'll take your comments back with us", and "we're trying to make the system better".

 

Regarding your questions (which are much wider in scope than the current TM30 issue), it's worth reminding that a meeting took place back in January, at the same venue, at which the chief of immigration actually did show up. Some of these points were raised back then, and the following speaks volumes regarding how much immigration's word is worth, considering all that's unfolded since that time:

Surachate said he’s drafting suggested amendments to the 1979 immigration law to make things smoother for expats seeking to reside, retire or work in the kingdom.

"I can guarantee it will be easy to apply and live here,” Surachate said. “[But] bad people will have a hard time.”

Proposed changes include abolishing 90-day reports and introducing 10-year visas for foreign retirees, Surachate said.

“The amendment process will take probably about two or three months,”

Good points-   The 10 year Visa already exists- it's the O-X but since it has been established there has been 1 poster to this forum that actually has it.  The requirements are not hard but they are onerous and one needs 3 million Baht to get plus the medical insurance. For all that you get a 10 year visa in 2 tranches- 5 years apart and are then stamped in one year at a time as the requiriements apply yearly. For most too expensive  and  hardly being sought after.

 

Then there is the O-A which works well but you have to return to your own country to get it and you can get up to 2 years with a  run out of the country after one year. Fairly popular but with potential health insurance requirments- if attached to it- it will  becomes as popular as the O-X

 

If Big joke was atalking about changing the Immigration Act of 1979- he should have known and probably did that such a change takes the National Assembly to vote on it; the Thai cabinet to approve it and then be published in the Royal Gazette. I hardly think  this could ever be done in 2-3 months. It could take years. IMO- he was making a political statement- trying to assuage feelings . As foreigners, we probably have another word for it and even in the Thai language it is called something else other than good news- Out of politeness- I won't say either.

 

The real issue with all Visas is that there is a one year extension limit by law- your visa can be  10 years but you have to report to Immigration each year  and fulfill the original requirements and prove it. (Their maybe special provisions for the new Smart Visa)

 

IMO what is really needed is a complete overhaul of the Immigration Act regardign all Visa matters.  The TM 30 situation can be modified- you fill it out once and then again only if you change your address.  The 90 day report can be done away with- not needed.  Certain nationalities may need to have special reporting or Visa requirements.

 

For sure- the Marriage Visa and Retirement Visa plus extensions need to be separate with different requirements.   After a certain period, there should be no need to constantly resatisfy the requirements over and over again.  A person's assets - house, condo, land holdings by spouse need to be taken into consideration. At some point a person should get access to the Thai Health system  by paying the monthly charges.  At some point an applicant needs to be able to get a Resident Card/Book that gives them more security and rights.  

 

If one is married to a Thai and wishes to emigrate to the USA- the Thai spouse  gets visa to enter and reside for 2 years. The  sponsoring spouse must either show around $24,000 in savings;  a job; propery holdings , stocks, bonds.  All assets are considered to meet the requirement. After 2 years- the spouse obtains their permanent residency and they have all the rights and responsibilities of a US citizen ( can't vote though) No more reporting - they carry a Resident Alien card commonly reffered to as a Green Card and become eligible for citizenship after 5 years.

 

I like living in Thailand and will not leave, and while I have the time to fiddle with the  TM 30 and Immigration reporting and extensions- some of it is plain irritating. In addition, if one is a citizen of the US/UK/AUS our embassies refuse to assist us in certifying our income which means we have other onerous conditions placed upon us. These Embassies are responsible for some of the angst because they could have easily worked with Thai Immigration for a solution.  The other 80 Embassies in Thailand have no problem looking at a few sheets of paper and issuing a document indicating the applicant has sworn to the veracity of the statement and still acceptible to Thai Immigration right now.

 

In summary- TM30 is not going away. IMO the best we can hope for is going back to non enforcement after a decent interval and attempting to fulfill the change requirements for retirement extensions (keeping the 800K in the bank 5 months and 400K after) and the marriage extension (keeting the 400K until final approval). For some- it is difficult due to  changes in the exchage rate as well as the other uncertainties that permeate this whole discussion.

 

[wreckingcountry]

No, not anymore. That we can thank all the rule breaking and obstinate foreigners for.

Ah another asslicker


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[Matzzon]

17 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

Ah another asslicker


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

So, thats how you look on people that comes to a foreign country and accept as well as abide the rules.

Yeah, go on! It´s much better to moan and complain in that little group of people that holds eachothers hand and belive they are many and strong. Just realize that you are only the few ones that are getting seen and heard in the great masses of other that do accept and not complain. As an estimation you probably belong to 2-3% of the foreigners in Thailand, and the rest do not concern themself with sinking to your level of constant complaining. In other words: Whatever you say, whatever you do it´s not going to make any change. That´s because you belong to an invisible and irrelevant percentual number of complainers.

[Bangkok Barry]

21 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

On 9/4/2019 at 10:13 PM, Matzzon said:

No, not anymore. That we can thank all the rule breaking and obstinate foreigners for.

Ah another asslicker

 

Yes. As I wrote above, the only rule breaking I saw at immigration was the IO inviting a donation to reduce the 'fine' for non-reporting. 99.99 per-cent of the crime in Thailand is committed by Thais, but it is the foreigners who are being tracked as potential criminals by people who are criminals themselves.

[jondoe18]

3 hours ago, Matzzon said:

So, thats how you look on people that comes to a foreign country and accept as well as abide the rules.

Yeah, go on! It´s much better to moan and complain in that little group of people that holds eachothers hand and belive they are many and strong. Just realize that you are only the few ones that are getting seen and heard in the great masses of other that do accept and not complain. As an estimation you probably belong to 2-3% of the foreigners in Thailand, and the rest do not concern themself with sinking to your level of constant complaining. In other words: Whatever you say, whatever you do it´s not going to make any change. That´s because you belong to an invisible and irrelevant percentual number of complainers.

 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, jondoe18 said:

 

Have you seen a change? Answer: NO!     --- Isn´t that right, sir?