Thailand drops in ranking of best places for expats - but which country is number 1?

[Max69xl]

16 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

About the country itself, well for me it isn't a place.

But the list shows why it's ranked high:

 

Safe Visa and Healthcare, stuff Vietnam is absolutely lacking.

 

Their visa sheme? Well it's quite close to a permanent residency, 10 year visas once granted and renewable without issues but you lock up 80-160k USD in a fixed deposit account.

 

Personally, honestly think thai elite 20 years, retirement, marriage visa shemes here are way better value for money.

 

Vietnam, Cambo and Laos don't have any of these shemes at all, do they? So what's better there long term?

If your priorities isn't cheap cheap cheap then none of those countries have anything over thailand and malaysia.

 

I want stability and security, decent health system and a secure visas, that's far more important then the price difference of a beer in a bar.

 

 singapore, korea, japan or portugal, spain, greece would be something to look at for me. 

 

The least i want is to live in an even more messed up country, each to his own i guess.

Bali isn't actually bad. I read up on it a month ago for no reason,just being curious. The retirement visa, (see below), 1 year health insurance is real cheap, everything is cheaper than Thailand, living standards for expats are high. The financial requirements for a retiree are easier to meet. The paperwork for the final visa isn't that straight forward,though, so many steps before you get the final stamps in your passport. It's normal to use an agent because of the different steps,but they aren't greedy. It's almost impossible to do it by yourself. There are no shortcuts what so ever. The fun part is, you have to agree to have a garderner or house maid, part time is ok, and they are so cheap per month anyway. 

[Melbun]

30 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Bali isn't actually bad. I read up on it a month ago for no reason,just being curious. The retirement visa, (see below), 1 year health insurance is real cheap, everything is cheaper than Thailand, living standards for expats are high. The financial requirements for a retiree are easier to meet. The paperwork for the final visa isn't that straight forward,though, so many steps before you get the final stamps in your passport. It's normal to use an agent because of the different steps,but they aren't greedy. It's almost impossible to do it by yourself. There are no shortcuts what so ever. The fun part is, you have to agree to have a garderner or house maid, part time is ok, and they are so cheap per month anyway. 

Been to Bali 4 times. Quite cheap (at the moment) but it's developing rapidly. Traffic is frenetic. New hotels going up everywhere, some subsuming rice paddy land. Really hot and humid a lot of the time and the dreaded rainy season. However, being so close to Australia (thousands go there for drunken holidays). Bogans they are called. Not a problem if you give the revelers wide berth. At the moment you can't own land outright - only in partnership with a trusted local sponsor. Has a similar ring to Thailand ?? And of course the sponsor can tell you to F off at any time. Bintang beer quite cheap. Food cheap  at family run warungs. Locals are friendly as they depend on the tourism. They are mostly Hindu - so not radical at all. Western food at restaurants expensive. Really needs to be closely investigated if you are serious. As for the compulsory gardener and maid. Make sure they are female as there may be "side benefits" ????

Edited September 9, 2019 by Melbun

[Max69xl]

29 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Been to Bali 4 times. Quite cheap (at the moment) but it's developing rapidly. Traffic is frenetic. New hotels going up everywhere, some subsuming rice paddy land. Really hot and humid a lot of the time and the dreaded rainy season. However, being so close to Australia (thousands go there for drunken holidays). Bogans they are called. At the moment you can't own land outright - only in partnership with a trusted local sponsor. Has a similar ring to Thailand ?? And of course the sponsor can tell you to F off at any time. Bintang beer quite cheap. Food cheap  at family run warungs. Locals are friendly as they depend on the tourism. They are mostly Hindu - so not radical at all. Western food at restaurants expensive. Really needs to be closely investigated if you are serious. As for the compulsory gardener and maid. Make sure they are female as there may be "side benefits" ????

You don't want to stay in Kuta or Sanur when the Aussies arrives from Perth. That's for sure. I don't want to live in the tourist areas as an expat. About the rainy season, I don't think it's that different from here. During summer time (European) the climate in the south part is like June back home or Gran Canaria in December. Good food and I like Bintang. If it wasn't for the really difficult procedure, (I've gone through the whole procedure online, it's doable) to obtain the retirement visa,it would be an option. Like I said, an agent is needed. Well, you never know. ????

Edited September 9, 2019 by Max69xl

[bwpage3]

On 9/6/2019 at 4:30 AM, cardinalblue said:

Tell me about Vermont - going there on a bike trip for the fall colors end of this month...

 

lots of money - Santa Barbara CA

The Green Mountains in Vermont are nice, but you should head to Franconia Notch, New Hampshire and cycle through the Presidential Mountain Range. Still one of my most favorite places ever!

[Catoni]

2 hours ago, Melbun said:

Been to Bali 4 times. Quite cheap (at the moment) but it's developing rapidly. Traffic is frenetic. New hotels going up everywhere, some subsuming rice paddy land. Really hot and humid a lot of the time and the dreaded rainy season. However, being so close to Australia (thousands go there for drunken holidays). Bogans they are called. Not a problem if you give the revelers wide berth. At the moment you can't own land outright - only in partnership with a trusted local sponsor. Has a similar ring to Thailand ?? And of course the sponsor can tell you to F off at any time. Bintang beer quite cheap. Food cheap  at family run warungs. Locals are friendly as they depend on the tourism. They are mostly Hindu - so not radical at all. Western food at restaurants expensive. Really needs to be closely investigated if you are serious. As for the compulsory gardener and maid. Make sure they are female as there may be "side benefits" ????

  If Bali is developing quite rapidly... then how about Lombok... right next door to the east? Or even Sumbawa two islands to the east?  Although I guess with Sumbawa you're getting more in the Islamic region than with Bali and Lombok.

    I see there are also lots of Hindu Temples on Lombok... and some Buddhist temples also.. 

 Lombok should be even cheaper than Bali.  And not as developed..  not as spoiled.

    And it should be just as easy as far as Visas and living there is concerned... am I correct ?  

[Catoni]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Bali isn't actually bad. I read up on it a month ago for no reason,just being curious. The retirement visa, (see below), 1 year health insurance is real cheap, everything is cheaper than Thailand, living standards for expats are high. The financial requirements for a retiree are easier to meet. The paperwork for the final visa isn't that straight forward,though, so many steps before you get the final stamps in your passport. It's normal to use an agent because of the different steps,but they aren't greedy. It's almost impossible to do it by yourself. There are no shortcuts what so ever. The fun part is, you have to agree to have a garderner or house maid, part time is ok, and they are so cheap per month anyway. 

  Would the Visa procedure be the same for Lombok?  I assume so ..since it is the same country.. Indonesia. 

[ThomasThBKK]

42 minutes ago, Catoni said:

  Would the Visa procedure be the same for Lombok?  I assume so ..since it is the same country.. Indonesia. 

 

From how i understood inedonesia, you need (?) to go to a licensed agency that is locally based in the region you want to apply.

This is because you need a sponsoring letter that said registered agencies have to write.

So u need to find one in lombok that can handle that, keep in mind health insurance is absolutely mandatory for a retirement visa there and runs around 5k usd each year for over 65yos plus.

 

You need to show 18k usd each year in deposits afaik and need to hire a maid/housekeeper at least part time.

 

Also they have worldwide taxation, so... not for me

 

Quote

As a KITAS holder you will become resident in Indonesia for tax purposes and you will be required to report your global income to the tax authorities in the same way as Indonesian nationals. For annual income up to Rp50o,000,000 the tax rate is five percent, over Rp 500,000,000 the rate is 30 percent.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Bill Miller]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:33 PM, wisperone said:

Just out of curiosity, how much is a Medicare copay?

A four day admission to the Royal Navy hospital for treatment of a systemic staph infection was 13,000 baht all in, or about $400 US.

A four day stay in my home state of  AZ would have cost a bit over $8,000, or 256,000 baht. Copay is generally 20%, so out of pocket would have been about $1,700 just.for the room. Start adding charges for drugs, "hospitaller", etc., and it can be more than 5X of Thailand. Also this is based on 2013 prices for the US, most recent table I could find. 

Maryland was about 50% less, so only 2X for the room alone. ????

[I am More Thai Than You]

On 9/6/2019 at 9:36 PM, Percy P said:

What is a down and out in your opinion.

Living like a peasant in Isaan.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

  If Bali is developing quite rapidly... then how about Lombok... right next door to the east? Or even Sumbawa two islands to the east?  Although I guess with Sumbawa you're getting more in the Islamic region than with Bali and Lombok.

    I see there are also lots of Hindu Temples on Lombok... and some Buddhist temples also.. 

 Lombok should be even cheaper than Bali.  And not as developed..  not as spoiled.

    And it should be just as easy as far as Visas and living there is concerned... am I correct ?  

Bali is a hindu island while Lombok is a muslim island. So it will never be the same. That's not an option for me if staying long term, if it's even possible. I don't have a clue. 

[Selatan]

11 hours ago, Catoni said:

What’s so great about Malaysia? I would assume Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos would be better. 

For retirement, Malaysia is better.

 

The World’s Best Places to Retire in 2019

 

If you are looking for love or if you are an alcoholic, then Thailand is better.

[Max69xl]

17 minutes ago, Selatan said:

For retirement, Malaysia is better.

 

The World’s Best Places to Retire in 2019

 

If you are looking for love or if you are an alcoholic, then Thailand is better.

Never forget that Malaysia is a muslim country. There's a big difference compared to non-muslim countries. Don't say it doesn't matter, because it does.  

[Orton Rd]

On 9/6/2019 at 1:05 PM, Old Croc said:

I have trouble understanding how Italy is ranked second bottom, just below Nigeria.

Maybe something to do with all the African 'refugees'  there?

[Max69xl]

29 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Maybe something to do with all the African 'refugees'  there?

Italy is quite expensive. If you're an expat where would you stay? Every tourist location is expensive. You have to find a place off the beaten track. But then if you can't speak Italian, then you might have a bit of a problem. 

[Selatan]

38 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Never forget that Malaysia is a muslim country. There's a big difference compared to non-muslim countries. Don't say it doesn't matter, because it does.  

Malaysia is a Muslim-majority country, like Indonesia, with a secular Constitution. Sharia laws in Malaysia only apply to Muslims, and it differs from state to state. Sharia laws in Malaysia are restricted to family laws and some religious observances. The highest punishment that a Muslim can get from a Sharia court is a 5,000 ringgit fine or a 3-year sentence. Non-Muslims cannot be charged in Sharia courts. 

If it is truly a Muslim country, then how come it has legal gambling facilities?

 

[Ron jeremy]

7 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

About the country itself, well for me it isn't a place.

But the list shows why it's ranked high:

 

Safe Visa and Healthcare, stuff Vietnam is absolutely lacking.

 

Their visa sheme? Well it's quite close to a permanent residency, 10 year visas once granted and renewable without issues but you lock up 80-160k USD in a fixed deposit account.

 

Personally, honestly think thai elite 20 years, retirement, marriage visa shemes here are way better value for money.

 

Vietnam, Cambo and Laos don't have any of these shemes at all, do they? So what's better there long term?

If your priorities isn't cheap cheap cheap then none of those countries have anything over thailand and malaysia.

 

I want stability and security, decent health system and a secure visas, that's far more important then the price difference of a beer in a bar.

 

 singapore, korea, japan or portugal, spain, greece would be something to look at for me. 

 

The least i want is to live in an even more messed up country, each to his own i guess.

Question: I'd you wanted stability and security, why are you in Thailand??? It's historically the most politically unstable country in SEA, and is under military dictatorship? And secure visas? Why are all the expats and tourists being turned away???

visas in neighbouring countries may not be the best, but I am sure they will improve in time.

but one thing is their visas are in black and white, 

Ans when tourists and expats arrive at immigration, they know they will be let in the country and not turned away. They know EXACTLY what they need to enter, no grey areas, no different interpretations from immigration officers.

this is huge, not having the thought in my mind, will I be turned away today.

and no money in the bank, $800 k and no 90 day reports and no tm-30.

so every country has its plus and minus .

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Ron jeremy

[Max69xl]

28 minutes ago, Selatan said:

Malaysia is a Muslim-majority country, like Indonesia, with a secular Constitution. Sharia laws in Malaysia only apply to Muslims, and it differs from state to state. Sharia laws in Malaysia are restricted to family laws and some religious observances. The highest punishment that a Muslim can get from a Sharia court is a 5,000 ringgit fine or a 3-year sentence. Non-Muslims cannot be charged in Sharia courts. 

If it is truly a Muslim country, then how come it has legal gambling facilities?

 

Even if you can gamble and drink beer it's a truly muslim country.

You're a bit naive. Stay there long term if you want. Up to you.

[Max69xl]

18 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Question: I'd you wanted stability and security, why are you in Thailand??? It's historically the most politically unstable country in SEA, and is under military dictatorship? And secure visas? Why are all the expats and tourists being turned away???

visas in neighbouring countries may not be the best, but I am sure they will improve in time.

but one thing is their visas are in black and white, 

Ans when tourists and expats arrive at immigration, they know they will be let in the country and not turned away. They know EXACTLY what they need to enter, no grey areas, no different interpretations from immigration officers.

this is huge, not having the thought in my mind, will I be turned away today.

and no money in the bank, $800 k and no 90 day reports and no tm-30.

so every country has its plus and minus .

 

I have been coming and going since 1989 and been staying here many years as an expat. It doesn't matter if there's been coups several times, there has never been any problems for expats/long stayers. And no expats have been turned away. No big changes in requirements for visas in many years. 

Don't blame immigration for stupid decisions from 3 countries embassies about income letters. I guess you don't even know the reason for not issuing income letters from 20190101. No ordinary tourists have been turned away. Don't confuse real tourists with people doing border runs and visa runs to neighbouring countries just because they don't meet the financial requirements for long stay. There's no problems what so ever if you meet the requirements and know what your doing here. I stay normally 15-18min tops incl.waiting per year in my local immigration office. Per year in total. This year maybe only 10min in total so far and I only have another 90 days report to do in November. That's another 2min tops. I stay 5min from my immigration office. Does this sound like hard work to you? If you don't like it here,move somewhere else.

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Don't blame immigration for stupid decisions from 3 countries embassies about income letters.

I will blame Immigration. Thank you.

[lkv]

19 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

No big changes in requirements for visas in many years. 

200K to 800K is not a big thing, just ×4 ???? If you say you've been around since 1989, you haven't been grandfathered? Or what visas were you using at the time back in 1989? Visa exempt unlimited?

 

Or was it triple entry tourist?

 

Piles and piles of extra documentation for any type of visa. Pictures of the married couple, maps of the house, for non O, etc etc

 

Documents for non B's not to mention.

 

You are aware that people got multi non B's before 2014 with a simple letter, don't you?

 

Work permits, valid for at least x time, instead of WP3's.

 

Do you want me to continue?

 

I appreciate you are defending Thailand, but have some solid arguments, without spreading misinformation. "Not much has changed" has started to become boring.

Edited September 9, 2019 by lkv

[ThomasThBKK]

48 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Question: I'd you wanted stability and security, why are you in Thailand??? It's historically the most politically unstable country in SEA, and is under military dictatorship? And secure visas? Why are all the expats and tourists being turned away???

visas in neighbouring countries may not be the best, but I am sure they will improve in time.

but one thing is their visas are in black and white, 

Ans when tourists and expats arrive at immigration, they know they will be let in the country and not turned away. They know EXACTLY what they need to enter, no grey areas, no different interpretations from immigration officers.

this is huge, not having the thought in my mind, will I be turned away today.

and no money in the bank, $800 k and no 90 day reports and no tm-30.

so every country has its plus and minus .

 

 

No it isn't and never was since i am here, that's why Toyota and co are here.

Go try to do some business in Vietnam and then report back. Not even most vietnam startups have a vietnamese company, they all incorporate in a SingCo.

Investors refuse to wire money into Vietnam, VC funding non existing, sure might change sooner or later, who knows, overall thailand while a bad country for business is still the second best after SG in SEA: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/open-for-business-rankings

 

No one has ever been turned away with a long stay visa/extension a la retirement,marriage, elite or a working expat, just people abusing the system. Same people that get turned away everywhere in the world.

They even pick me up with a golfcart at the plane, how nice of them?

Why should visas improve there and not here lol?

You can be easily turned away in Vietnam, just write the wrong thing on Facebook, everything is monitored there, FB even blocked partially, you know why no VietnamVisa forum exists, because it's illegal to criticize the government, ThaiVisa wouldnt be possible.

You can't even go there visa land border without a visa, how is that in improvement? Visa exempts can't be done without 30 days outside of thailand via air, and even in phu quoc the immigration guys are unfriendly as hell. There are plenty of visa warnings about vietnam from well known travel bloggers, go figure: https://www.adventurouskate.com/how-i-almost-got-banned-from-vietnam/

 

 

Thailand is already anal enough about censorship but they are on another level there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Vietnam

 

Coups in Thailand are no different than Christmas and Asperagus season in germany, a regularly occuring event. I don't give a damn, i simply ignore it.

 

And yeah compared to europe thailand is a mess, but vietnam and co are worse.

[Melbun]

9 hours ago, Catoni said:

  If Bali is developing quite rapidly... then how about Lombok... right next door to the east? Or even Sumbawa two islands to the east?  Although I guess with Sumbawa you're getting more in the Islamic region than with Bali and Lombok.

    I see there are also lots of Hindu Temples on Lombok... and some Buddhist temples also.. 

 Lombok should be even cheaper than Bali.  And not as developed..  not as spoiled.

    And it should be just as easy as far as Visas and living there is concerned... am I correct ?  

Lombok WAS really nice but was just about totally destroyed by an earthquake last year . You didn't hear about that ?? Also, largely Muslim population. Depends how remote you want to live. If you are an expat you need population centres with good infrastructure .

Edited September 9, 2019 by Melbun

[Max69xl]

6 hours ago, Melbun said:

Lombok WAS really nice but was just about totally destroyed by an earthquake last year . You didn't hear about that ?? Also, largely Muslim population. Depends how remote you want to live. If you are an expat you need population centres with good infrastructure .

Even before the earthquake, Lombok was underdeveloped and quite poor. When talking about staying long term, never confuse Bali with Lombok if you're supposed to move to Indonesia. It's two different worlds. When comparing Hindu with Muslim, Hindu wins every time.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Max69xl

[Melbun]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

We're not talking about earthquakes, we're talking about staying long term. Never confuse Bali with Lombok if you're supposed to move to Indonesia. It's two different worlds. 

15 hours ago, Catoni said:

  If Bali is developing quite rapidly... then how about Lombok... right next door to the east? Or even Sumbawa two islands to the east?  Although I guess with Sumbawa you're getting more in the Islamic region than with Bali and Lombok.

    I see there are also lots of Hindu Temples on Lombok... and some Buddhist temples also.. 

 Lombok should be even cheaper than Bali.  And not as developed..  not as spoiled.

    And it should be just as easy as far as Visas and living there is concerned... am I correct ?  

I was responding to the above gentleman. He was asking about the viability of Lombok as a possible expat destination. And earthquakes may not be of interest to you - but they decimated that island. Don't really know what you are babbling on about. Are you hitting the turps ?? Yet again !!

Edited September 10, 2019 by Melbun

[Max69xl]

18 minutes ago, Melbun said:

I was responding to the above gentleman. He was asking about the viability of Lombok as a possible expat destination. And earthquakes may not be of interest to you - but they decimated that island. Don't really know what you are babbling on about. Are you hitting the turps ?? 

We were talking about long term staying. Earthquakes or not, Lombok was underdeveloped and quite poor even before that. And as you said, largely Muslim population. Comparing Hindu with Muslim,Hindu wins every time. It's two different worlds. 

[Melbun]

58 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

We were talking about long term staying. Earthquakes or not, Lombok was underdeveloped and quite poor even before that. And as you said, largely Muslim population. Comparing Hindu with Muslim,Hindu wins every time. It's two different worlds. 

Lombok Underdeveloped ??? Almost the same population of Bali.

3.3 million - Bali 4.3 million. Clearly you're right off the mark and haven't been there. Also, depends if they are radical Muslims - most are nice peaceful people. Now go back to sleep and stop trying to annoy.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Melbun

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, Melbun said:

Lombok Underdeveloped ??? Almost the same population of Bali.

3.3 million - Bali 4.3 million. Clearly you're right off the mark and haven't been there. Also, depends if they are radical Muslims - most are nice peaceful people. Now go back to sleep and stop trying to annoy.

To stay on topic Can you explain why Thailand has dropped down on the list and why Vietnam is suddenly climbing to the top?

Noone cares about these so called earthquakes in Lombok.

[Melbun]

42 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

To stay on topic Can you explain why Thailand has dropped down on the list and why Vietnam is suddenly climbing to the top?

Noone cares about these so called earthquakes in Lombok.

Well I suppose - just a wild uneducated guess - More bang for the buck, your dosh, moolah, coin - spreads further. Like I said just a wild guess. That's for tourists - as for expats - who knows why. maybe the girls are prettier.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

To stay on topic Can you explain why Thailand has dropped down on the list and why Vietnam is suddenly climbing to the top?

Noone cares about these so called earthquakes in Lombok.

 

Maybe because it's just a random survey?

Most other "lists" look different: https://nomadlist.com/

 

Canggu, Bangkok, Budapest, Chiang Mai, Seoul are the top 5 here, Seoul is like bottom in your quoted listed.

 

As someone who has an office in Seoul - i absolutely can't comprehend why South Korea would be on bottom of such an expat list, Korea is a very well functioning country for business and living, and you can stay indefinite with visa runs and you can get permanent residency after 3 years easily.

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Maybe because it's just a random survey?

Most other "lists" look different: https://nomadlist.com/

 

Canggu, Bangkok, Budapest, Chiang Mai, Seoul are the top 5 here, Seoul is like bottom in your quoted listed.

 

As someone who has an office in Seoul - i absolutely can't comprehend why South Korea would be on bottom of such an expat list, Korea is a very well functioning country for business and living, and you can stay indefinite with visa runs and you can get permanent residency after 3 years easily.

Yes I noticed after clicking on them that you put lots of meaningless links in most of your posts.