Farage says Brexit will be delayed again when PM Johnson's deal falls

[nauseus]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

So you’ve identified the UK’s failure to undertake the advance planning and preparation for the growing population but fail to understand that importing young, healthy, tax paying workers that were educated and trained at the expense of other nations is a boon to the national coffers.

 

I do however take note of this sudden interest in planning and preparation, something of a surprise coming from a Brexiteer.

If you could be bothered to read back you will see that I said that this planning is impossible, given the freedom of movement that is so loved by the EU. You would also see that I have not indicated that I am discounting the value of EU workers.   

[wilcopops]

Will of the people?

Will o' the wisp more like...

 

 

[Loiner]

More Remainer manipulation of the figures.
Based on your numbers, 50.1 million did not vote Remain. So that’s a landslide for Leave.
There’s No Deal to be had from the EU, so it’s out without.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[StreetCowboy]

34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you could be bothered to read back you will see that I said that this planning is impossible, given the freedom of movement that is so loved by the EU. You would also see that I have not indicated that I am discounting the value of EU workers.   

People can move freely within the UK,  yet somehow local councils manage planning and investment in local infrastructure.  I never felt I was jeopardising the council plans, nor impoverishing the locals, nor unduely burdening their services when I migrated to Cheshire, even though I lived in a council flat for a while.

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

More Remainer manipulation of the figures.
Based on your numbers, 50.1 million did not vote Remain. So that’s a landslide for Leave.
There’s No Deal to be had from the EU, so it’s out without.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I like to think that change should require clear and specific consent.

”when asked what they wanted, less than 1% said they did not want poked in the eye”

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

More Remainer manipulation of the figures.
Based on your numbers, 50.1 million did not vote Remain. So that’s a landslide for Leave.
There’s No Deal to be had from the EU, so it’s out without.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

There is no mandate to leave with no deal.

But you already know that.

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you could be bothered to read back you will see that I said that this planning is impossible, given the freedom of movement that is so loved by the EU. You would also see that I have not indicated that I am discounting the value of EU workers.   

Planning is impossible? 

Yes for Brexit it is.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/schools-told-to-check-they-can-provide-meals-after-a-no-deal-brexit

 

Look at the carnage you are going to cause just because of your fundamentalist Brexit ideals.

 

You are running the risk of school closures and kids going hungry.

 

IS IT REALLY A PRICE WORTH PAYING?

[StreetCowboy]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Planning is impossible? 

Yes for Brexit it is.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/schools-told-to-check-they-can-provide-meals-after-a-no-deal-brexit

 

Look at the carnage you are going to cause just because of your fundamentalist Brexit ideals.

 

You are running the risk of school closures and kids going hungry.

 

IS IT REALLY A PRICE WORTH PAYING?

“Some of you may die, but that is a price I am willing to pay....”

[yogi100]

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

This has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with Tory austerity.

You keep doing this time and time again; blaming the EU for what are obviously the problems of the government at the time. and/or the consequences of Tory austerity. Please educate yourself. I'll start you off.

https://www-cdn.oxfam.org/s3fs-public/file_attachments/cs-true-cost-austerity-inequality-uk-120913-en_0.pdf

 

Since 2003 - 04 when Blair opened the gates to EU citizens the UKs population has risen by 7 million. This is based on findings by the Office of National Statistics. As the ONS is a govt organisation it's probably much more.

 

It stands to reason no country can stand for such a population increase and the strain that is put on facilities and services. If we had not been in the EU this would not have happened.

 

We've even got Polish shops in parts of the UK to cater for the hordes of Poles that arrived and put down roots.

 

I live in the UK and have seen this first hand.

 

Even Boris got an education about a lack of hospital staff from the father of a sick child yesterday when he visited a London hospital. It's been all over the news.

 

 

 

 

 

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

People can move freely within the UK,  yet somehow local councils manage planning and investment in local infrastructure.  I never felt I was jeopardising the council plans, nor impoverishing the locals, nor unduely burdening their services when I migrated to Cheshire, even though I lived in a council flat for a while.

HTF did you get a council flat! You cant be English.

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

HTF did you get a council flat! You cant be English.

I’m not sure about now, but back in the day, British was British. I know some English people have wanted to leave the UK, but they’ve never been brave enough to put it forward.  I know many of my compatriots would be delighted to see them go, but for all their foibles, I would rather stand shoulder to shoulder with my English, Welsh and Irish friends and compatriots.

[yogi100]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I’m not sure about now, but back in the day, British was British. I know some English people have wanted to leave the UK, but they’ve never been brave enough to put it forward.  I know many of my compatriots would be delighted to see them go, but for all their foibles, I would rather stand shoulder to shoulder with my English, Welsh and Irish friends and compatriots.

 

Are you Scottish then. I did not think you'd be English.

[CaptainNemo]

5 hours ago, Slip said:

So you make a claim, and then refuse to offer anything to back it up.  It therefore lacks credibility.  There is a parallel here with claims having being made that immigrants are a net contributor to the UK.  The difference is that those claims have been repeatedly been backed up by those who made them.  Brexiteers have gone on to ridicule those claims through anecdotal (at best) "evidence" or unsubstantiated opinion in its place.  This is the stuff of propaganda. 

I know it's frustrating isn't it... you have to go and read up facts for yourself rather than quoting misinformed idiots from the Guardian and BBC. It's your lot that made the claim first that it's a myth, and you have failed to support it, so by your own standards you lack credibility.

 

I don't refust to offer anything to back it up, I just insist that you back up your claim that there's no problem first, then I'll respond, rather than me do all the work for you for you to just come back glib and unsubstantiated refutations. I've done this before, I know how the game goes.

 

You are the propagandist, and you'll have to raise your game. I and many others have acres of evidence that utterly refutes your claims, but I'm not going to post it until you post your evidence, because your side made the claim first - that it's a myth about... well go back and read it further up the thread...

[CaptainNemo]

2 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Will of the people?

Will o' the wisp more like...

 

 

Maths-based propaganda eh? well whichever way you swing it more people didn't vote to remain than did.

 

[CaptainNemo]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

There is no mandate to leave with no deal.

But you already know that.

There is no mandate to remain with or without a deal, but you already knew that. Blame the EU for no deal, it's they who are refusing to negotiate.

[CaptainNemo]

7 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

 

 

 

 

 

This one is one of my favorites ........

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a very good joke, because apart from having too many words, it's based on a false premiss that the UK is by default pro-remain, which it never was, as the LSE found. Comedy has to be true to be funny, and has to kick up against the elite, this is a joke based on a lie and supporting the elite, so it isn't funny.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

People can move freely within the UK,  yet somehow local councils manage planning and investment in local infrastructure.  I never felt I was jeopardising the council plans, nor impoverishing the locals, nor unduely burdening their services when I migrated to Cheshire, even though I lived in a council flat for a while.

That's marvellous. But a complete non-comparison. 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

There is no mandate to remain with or without a deal, but you already knew that. Blame the EU for no deal, it's they who are refusing to negotiate.

They are refusing to negotiate?

 

Where did you read that?

 

On the side of a bus?

[Rookiescot]

10 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

There is no mandate to remain with or without a deal, but you already knew that. Blame the EU for no deal, it's they who are refusing to negotiate.

You are deluded sir. The EU has been perfectly clear since before the referendum even took place.

You simply chose to ignore what they were saying.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Planning is impossible? 

Yes for Brexit it is.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/18/schools-told-to-check-they-can-provide-meals-after-a-no-deal-brexit

 

Look at the carnage you are going to cause just because of your fundamentalist Brexit ideals.

 

You are running the risk of school closures and kids going hungry.

 

IS IT REALLY A PRICE WORTH PAYING?

Well you've just changed the sub topic but never mind. This is more Project Fear and you revel in it as you accuse me of all this nonsense. 

 

 

[7by7]

8 hours ago, CaptainNemo said:

The idea that the strain on housing and unemployment and other essential services is a myth, is a myth.

It really is a strain, it really isn't a myth, and it really is a large part of why people voted leave.

I'm not going to spend time posting loads of graphs and data, because you should read up for yourself.

 

I have researched it for myself. That's how I know it's a myth.

 

But unlike the usual Brexiteer excuse for failing to produce facts to back up their claims, such as yours above, I have also previously posted evidence to support that opinion. Here are some more facts for you to ponder. 

 

Or will you, like other Brexiteers here and elsewhere, simply ignore the facts which destroy your arguments?

 

Apart from a blip in 2008 due to the financial crisis, UK unemployment has fluctuated slightly month to month, but the trend has been steadily falling since the early 1990s.

 

 

 

The effects of EU migration on Britain in 5 charts

Quote

European migration has been good for Britain, raising economic performance and improving the public finances, the Migration Advisory Committee revealed on Tuesday following the most extensive research on its effects in a generation. The MAC report showed that not every aspect of migration has been beneficial and gains will not have been equally felt across the British-born population. But the overall impact, particularly from EU nations, has been far more positive than the Leave campaign, politicians and parts of the media generally project.

 

The facts: EU immigration and pressure on the NHS

Quote

To summarise

EU immigration contributes to financial pressure on the NHS, but its annual impact is small compared to other factors. Whether EU immigrants pay enough into the public finances overall to cover their costs is difficult to say, and researchers give different answers. However, it does appear that they make more of a net contribution than other groups.

The UK doesn’t claim back as much as it could of the cost of treating Europeans who come here for a shorter period as visitors or to live as pensioners, which is mostly down to the NHS not asking for money it is due.

 

Obviously, the more people there are living in the UK then the more houses we will need to build for them. But the causes of homelessness are many and varied. Immigration may play a part as it reduces the number of available homes; but it is a minor part. See What causes homelessness and rough sleeping? for more.

 

It is also a myth that EU/EEA migrants jump the social housing queue: EEA migrants: access to social housing (England)

Quote

Evidence of 'jumping the queue' for housing?

Official statistics on social housing lettings in England show that between April 2014 and March 2015 the vast majority of lettings (91%) were made to UK nationals. Research into migrants’ access to social housing has found that there is a much higher likelihood of non-UK nationals living in the private rented sector.

 

 

 

 

[CaptainNemo]

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So here it is. 

Facts and figures continually refute many of the Brexit argument.

They really don't, they refute the Remain argument completely.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Whether it happens to be EU nationals putting a strain on resources or the Uk losing its sovereignty. We have proven in this thread and many other threads this just isn’t the case.

You really haven't, none of you have presented a shred of evidence for anything, just noise.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Polish people taking your job? Just not true

It really is true, and I know you won't accept it unless an openly left-wing source is presented to you, and in that source the data will be watered down to mitigate against the impact, but this is part of the problem, Remainers want to "own" intellectualism, and caricature Brexiteers as untermensch.

Before anyone can challenge your unsubstantiated assertion, you have to be willing to state what evidence you will accept. This is part of the problem. Remainers want to simultaneously dehumanise Brexiteers as an unintelligent monolith, whilst also imagining there's a hidden majority out there for them to recruit. The trouble with calling all your opponents thick, and invoking Godwin's law, is that you alienate the people you need to form any majority for your view. This is why you fail to unite the nation behind you, because you are overtly divisive.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

(but if it affects you personally then, yeah we get it). The EU making laws that negate UK law? Again just not true. 

Again, you pretend like you've proven it, but all you've done is make a glib unsubstantiated assertion.

If it's not true - prove it!

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

The point all you Brexit lot miss is what kind of message are you sending out to future generations.

Nope, the point you lot all imiss is what kind of message you are sending out to future generations - that your vote doesn't matter, the establishment will use any means necessary, the media, the courts, and corrupt the legislature to undermine the executive, and undermine democracy to help millionaires get their way.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Is that we cannot assimilate others into our society?

This is rubbish. The EU is a trading bloc, not an immigration bloc, and has nothing to do with mass immigration from Asia, Africa, and elsewhere. Other modern liberal democracies, like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, have firm but fair controlled immigration; the EU is a free-for-all, and the mishandling of the Syrian crisis, that led to international treaties on the handling of refugees illustrates that. Rule of Law (which is a fundamental principle of British civilisation: https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/09/14/philip-allott-on-the-merits-of-constitutional-struggle/) was cast aside in the face of media manipulation and misinformation to allow the rights of real refugees to be put in jeopardy for the benefit of illegal economic migrants, some of whom turned out to be violent sex offenders.

Controlled quality-filtered immigration existed for many years before Labour deliberately wrecked it for puerile political reasons (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613/Labour-sent-out-search-parties-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html).

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Is it that we are divided by our differences rather than united by our common goals?

...but they're not our common goals, and that's part of the point. They are the goals of an elite, that disregards what the people want, and is willing to subvert democracy to do that. If you want to be the servant of exploitative plutocrats and pretend you're doing your fellow man a service, you'll find ethical patriotic resistance to your misguided "values". People who refuse to hold General Elections and then call the people who want a General Election a dictator, are both ridiculous and dangerous.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Is that the color of your skin or your religious preferences dictate how you are as an individual? 

Europeans are generally of the same religion and skin phenotype. You appear to be deliberately conflating unrelated issues to make a bogus point, inferring that people who simply want to leave a failing, corrupt, exploitative, undemocratic supranational organisation are somehow evil, when they really aren't.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

That the small minority of individuals taking advantage have a louder voice than those who are genuinely trying their best to make a better future for themselves and their family. 

That smaller minority is the Remain faction, and their backers in the media and finance; that much is clear.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You are on the wrong side of history with your myopic, self centered idea of how the world should progress.

That is certainly true of Remainiacs, as Germany slides into recession, and refugees languish on the borders of Europe thanks to Merkels' folly of letting in illegal economic migrants and violent sex offenders pretending to be refugees. The child who was photographed dead on a beach - his dad was a human trafficker. That is the fault of imbeciles like Obama and Merkel not of people you try to insinuate are evil simply by wanting to stop such criminal exploitation of desperate people, who could be more effectively helped by intervention in the places where they actually are.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Brexit divides it doesn’t unite.

Remain divides, and has done since the result. They seem prepared to divide the United Kingdom, and destroy every aspect of the constitution to serve the sinister forces of antidemocracy. Brexit is about the United Kingdom refusing to be divided, and mass immigration divides nations by Balkanising their populations.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

It says that I’m happier going back in history rather than embrace a more optimistic future. #

Brexit says I'm happier to embrace a more optimistic future and the whole world, rather than languish in a corrupt, failing, protectionist corner of the world shutting out the rest. The EU is the past, and the future without it, embracing global trade, and engageing with every continent on the world is exciting and progressive. Remain is fearful, desperate, controlling, and pessimistic.

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

This is why we don’t like what you are doing. This is why we will fight as long as it takes. 

This is why we don’t like what you are doing. This is why we will fight as long as it takes. 

[elliss]

23 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Shelter, the organisation claim that there were more than 250,000 homeless people in the UK in 2016.

 

Crisis another organisation said that in 2018 there were 200,000 people living in bed and breakfast hostels in the UK.

 

As I said before there are 8.6 million economically inactive people of working age in the UK. The can't all apart from the approx 1.5 million unemployed be sick or caring for those that are.

 

 Wow , really ,, 

            Fyi , i have left  the UK .   That said i do not use my right to vote in UK elections , a matter of principle..

                   Gbp / thai baht , is now my main concern...

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

[CaptainNemo]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

They are refusing to negotiate?

 

Where did you read that?

 

On the side of a bus?

You might read buses; I read books. The EU has said there is no other deal on the table.

Quote

EU will not renegotiate Brexit deal, Juncker tells Johnson

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/25/michel-barnier-boris-johnsons-combative-rhetoric-targets-eu-unity

 

Quote

Michel Barnier: no grounds for reopening Brexit talks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/michel-barnier-no-grounds-for-reopening-brexit-talks

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

You might read buses; I read books. The EU has said there is no other deal on the table.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/25/michel-barnier-boris-johnsons-combative-rhetoric-targets-eu-unity

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/michel-barnier-no-grounds-for-reopening-brexit-talks

The eu has made it clear they are willing to meet and discuss a deal. 

 

They have made it clear they are willing to listen to new proposals. 

 

No one is refusing to negotiate. 

 

Brexit: UK shares confidential documents with EU https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49753413

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-49749465

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/19/brexit-eu-must-take-risks-with-irish-border-says-barclay

 

Moreover the articles you posted links to specifically mention ongoing talks. 

 

[7by7]

55 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Since 2003 - 04 when Blair opened the gates to EU citizens the UKs population has risen by 7 million. This is based on findings by the Office of National Statistics. As the ONS is a govt organisation it's probably much more.

 

Blair did not  open the gates to EU citizens; the gates were opened by the principle of freedom of movement enshrined in various directives until they were all brought together in one in 2005. Principles we knew about and agreed to when we joined in 1973 and voted to remain in 1975. At least those of us paying attention did!

 

You, yourself, have previously correctly said that there are approximately 3 million EU/EEA nationals living in the UK; where did you get the other 4 million from?

 

59 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

It stands to reason no country can stand for such a population increase and the strain that is put on facilities and services. If we had not been in the EU this would not have happened.

Dealt with many times before, see my response to CaptainNemo above for the latest.

 

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

We've even got Polish shops in parts of the UK to cater for the hordes of Poles that arrived and put down roots.

 

I live in the UK and have seen this first hand.

Take a good look around you, then!

 

Where I live as well as a Polish shop we have a Philippine one and several Asian ones.  Lots of Chinese supermarkets in London; take a trip round the North Circular for starters; plus, of course, all those in Soho. Lots of Thai shops as well. Plus ones catering to many other ethnicities and tastes. My local Sainsbury's even has an aisle full of imported American food!

 

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

Even Boris got an education about a lack of hospital staff from the father of a sick child yesterday when he visited a London hospital. It's been all over the news.

You're off Brexiteer message on that! Read the responses in the relevant topic and you may want to chgange your mind!

 

[7by7]

49 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

I know it's frustrating isn't it... you have to go and read up facts for yourself rather than quoting misinformed idiots from the Guardian and BBC. It's your lot that made the claim first that it's a myth, and you have failed to support it, so by your own standards you lack credibility.

 I have provided evidence to back up my claim that it's a myth many times; and have done so yet again just for you; see above.

 

Now, produce your evidence; if you have any.

[7by7]

48 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

There is no mandate to remain with or without a deal, but you already knew that. Blame the EU for no deal, it's they who are refusing to negotiate.

 They negotiated, the agreed a deal with the then UK government and we would have left last March had not Rees-Mogg, Johnson and other Tories put personal ambition ahead of country.

 

The EU have repeatedly said that they are willing to negotiate any and all reasonable proposals. But how could they when until today Johnson hadn't given them any proposals to negotiate?

 

Brexit: UK shares confidential documents with EU

 

 

[CaptainNemo]

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I have researched it for myself. That's how I know it's a myth.

That's not really much of a substantiation, is it.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But unlike the usual Brexiteer excuse for failing to produce facts to back up their claims, such as yours above,

Are you going to keep doing this? The usual ad hominem rubbish? It doesn't lend more weight to anything.

What is the "usual Brexiteer excuse"? I applied your principle to you - you made an assertion, and you didn't back it up. By your own principle, I only need to wait for you to back up what you say.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I have also previously posted evidence to support that opinion. Here are some more facts for you to ponder. 

 

Or will you, like other Brexiteers here and elsewhere, simply ignore the facts which destroy your arguments?

There you go again...

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Apart from a blip in 2008 due to the financial crisis,

"blip" eh?

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

UK unemployment has fluctuated slightly month to month, but the trend has been steadily falling since the early 1990s.

This graph doesn't tell you much about the type of employment, or the demographics of the employed.

It also is hosted by the BBC, and yes I regard them as a left-leaning, pro-EU, pro-immigration propaganda organisation, and not as a credible academic source.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The effects of EU migration on Britain in 5 charts

This one is the FT. Yes I regard it as left-leaning, and pro-EU. I also don't have any reason to suppose that a committee made of up pro-immigration, pro-diversity, pro-EU people would conclude anything negative about immigration. I can't view the charts because I don't subscribe to the FT. Feel free to present the information again. Perhaps you have some migration watch data, or something less "journalistic"?

 

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The facts: EU immigration and pressure on the NHS

The source you cite doesn't really support your point of view. The funding for the NHS is under pressure, and increased immigration is both a direct and indirect cause of that, as the graphs in the report show.

"Rising costs and wages" is the core of this, and is a function of increased land price, which is in turn a function of increased population, and increased immigration. You might want to gloss over that, but this is the core of the problem. England is the most densely populated country in Europe, and this problem has been exacerbated by increased immigration since 1997, and caused land prices to more than double since then, and that additional cost feeds into every aspect of society. If you want to see a contrasting nation, look to Japan, where the population is in decline, and land costs are also in decline, as a result.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Obviously,

Obviously.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

the more people there are living in the UK then the more houses we will need to build for them.

We don't need to do anything of the sort. There is a strange tendency to assume that there are not enough houses, which infers that there is the right number of people and incomers; the maths is the same when you say there is the right number of houses, and the wrong number of people and incomers.

 

The equation is more complex than just "houses", because for all the houses you build, you have to add in more than just acquiring the land to build them, but also installing services, both utilities in the form of pipes, electricity, and roads; and capacity for education, health, and refuse, etc... all this additional capacity requires more people trained and employed to do it, and there is a natural speed limit to how quickly you can train, employ, and relocate those additional people.  This can result in training facilities having to expand, and acquire more land to do so. This can create a self-feeding demand for more immigration to meet the demands of more immigration, meanwhile the twofold increased requirement for land naturally pushes up the price of land, and that price impacts the price of everything because even shops and factories have to add that cost into what they sell and manufacture; the net result is inflation, but without wage growth to match it, when the additionally recruited incomers from abroad are willing to accept lower and low-growing wages because they are higher than those in the countries they come from. The net result is a increased cost of living, which then prompts property owners to find new ways of fitting more rentpayers into a property, and reduces the availability of property for families, and increases the cost due to increased scarcity. This is pretty basic GCSE economics, and shouldn't need a graph.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

But the causes of homelessness are many and varied.

Can you list the main ones?

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Immigration may

May?

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

play a part as it reduces the number of available homes; but it is a minor part.

Why is it a minor part?

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

See What causes homelessness and rough sleeping? for more.

So they say:

Quote

Structural factors leading to homelessness include:

• Lack of affordable housing
• Decline of social sector housing as a proportion of all housing
• Tighter mortgage regulation and higher costs for first time buyers
• Unfavourable labour market conditions / rising poverty levels
• Growing fragmentation of families
• Reduced welfare provision

Individual factors include:

• Relationship breakdown (including domestic abuse and violence)
• Mental illness
• Addiction
• Discharge from prison
• Leaving the care system
• Financial problems

So above, I've put in bold the points that I will argue are a result of unprecedented mass migration since the New Labour years.

 

Lack of affordable housing is explained above, and is related to increased immigration, as is unfavourable labour conditions; the others are indirectly caused by increased immigration.

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

It is also

...so wait a minute... where did you "prove" something about something?

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

a myth that EU/EEA migrants jump the social housing queue: EEA migrants: access to social housing (England)

The council housing queue isn't the contention... as the private rental sector has substantially replaced the state housing sector, and the contention was that many private houses are converted from family homes into buildings where as many rooms as possible are rented out, in order to maximise rental yield.

If you want me to back that up, I will. The report does state that "structural factors" are more likely to result in family homelessness.

What this parliamentary link does show is that:

Quote

EEA nationals’ access to social housing is based on the principle of free movement and the entitlement of EEA nationals to enjoy equal treatment with UK nationals in accessing social advantages. In summary, EEA nationals may be eligible to apply for social housing if they have a relevant right to reside, for example, if they are working

This means that there are potentially more people applying for this housing than there would be if there was no freedom of movement. In other words, leaving the EU would reduce the pressure on housing.

 

The issue I have with this line of argument, is that it doesn't address the non-homelessness part of the problem, where cost of living is increased to make like more difficult without quite forcing homelessness, but I digress.

 

In short, you haven't really demonstrated any myths at all, and in fact some of the data you present actually undermines your own case.

 

 

[CaptainNemo]

35 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The eu has made it clear they are willing to meet and discuss a deal. 

 

They have made it clear they are willing to listen to new proposals. 

 

No one is refusing to negotiate.

 

How do I put this... on BBC radio, it's been repeatedly reported that the EU says there is no further deal to be negotiated. They now say Britain has to put some new proposal in writing by 2 weeks, but no willingness on their part to change their position. You know it's true.