Safety In Thaialnd

[marshbags]

From Todays Nation Sat, March 24, 2007 : Last updated 0:10 am (Thai local time)

Quote:-

JUST A THOUGHT

Please return to lost and found: public safety

Living in Thailand at this particular juncture requires a tough mind-set.

Politics is a mess, the baht is rising too fast, too furiously, and the South is literally a war zone. To make matters worse, road accidents and criminal offences are becoming more insane, as if Thailand is ruled by lawlessness.

You take a coach and it might just burst into flames; you walk down the street and suddenly you might be caught up in a school gang fight; and if you get into a verbal fight with someone, your arm might be cut off.

The point is that people living in Thailand in general, let alone the southernmost provinces, are taking unwarranted risks every time they step out of the house. Life is getting cheaper by the day.

The call for public safety will be sounded whenever a fatal accident takes place, but in the end it will not materialise into anything substantial. The coach accident in Saraburi that killed 29 passengers this past week was not the first of its kind and it will definitely not be the last.

The high death toll shocked the nation, but actually similar unnecessary deaths occur every now and then within Thailand's transportation system. Passengers are not safe on buses, boats, trains or taxis.

And it's the same story every time. Carelessness on the part of the driver, or the operating company as a whole is to blame, and officials announce that stricter precautions and harsher punishments will be put in place.

However, time has proven that there are no prevention and punishment mechanisms in place at all. The Saraburi accident reflects how lax the laws and the enforcement of them are. There's no fear of punishment on the part of the coach operator at all as regards the way it maintains its buses. This particular one had been running for 36 years!

On an emotional note, there has not been a single word of apology from the coach company. To take a cue from previous cases, the operator will be allowed to run buses on the same routes pretty soon despite a one-week ban for now.

Even if the operator's licence is revoked, how can the authorities guarantee that a new operator will abide by the rules that are never respected nor feared in the first place?

The call for more stringent measures will fall, once again, on deaf ears. Just like the recycling of Thai lakorn (soap opera) plots, this whole vicious cycle will repeat itself when a tragic accident takes place in the future.

When will authorities get serious about setting public safety as a top priority and making these "accidents" unforgivable?

Meanwhile, leniency and nepotism prove to still be alive and well in Thai society. The fact that a girl got her right arm chopped off by a gang of three men for not playing their flirting game is just simply outrageous.

More disgusting is the fact that one of those involved is a police officer while the other two are security volunteers. The case was filed with the police station in Saraburi on February 26, but until the victim made it to National Police Office headquarters this past week, no progress had been made.

Local police officers, who worked at the same station as the accused policeman, tried to make the case seem as if it were an accident, and the victim has not yet received any compensation, even medical expenses, from the three so-called law enforcers.

In a case as appalling as this the three were granted bail and released temporarily. How can anyone expect to find peace of mind about personal security if officials are given bail so easily despite the gravity of the case and the fact that they are supposed to be the upholders of the law?

In fact, any government official, especially a member of the police force, should face tighter legal procedures and harsher punishments.

Since no real changes are in sight, the best policy is therefore to watch out for yourself. Make sure you are on alert at all time, ready to jump out the bus window, swim in the klongs or the Chao Phya River or run for your life if need be.

Actually, we're not the only ones leading risky lives - even fish are suffering with safety concerns as well.

The greatest mystery of the Ayutthaya-Angthong massacre that even Agatha Christie's detective Hercule Poirot might not be able to crack is who killed the fish? What caused the sudden lack of oxygen in the water? Will the culprits ever be found and more importantly, punished?

Human life, fish, fish, human life. Sadly, they face more or less the same fate.

Veenarat Laohapakakul

Unquote.

This for me is a good article and constructive in it,s comments as it covers safety in general along with some recent horrific incidents that we are at present debating.

How simple it would be to address and drastically reduce such happenings if the will of the Authorities, Politicians and not least of all The Thai People.

Please remember we are debating Thailand and not all the other countries of the world should anyone feel like submittng a cynical observation on it seeming to be O.K. here because X is the same or worse.

Safety and a reasonably safe enviroment along with quality of life are far more important.

It would also i am sure be sorted out in a heartbeat if some of the Puyai / Authorities and Officials also had to rely on public transport and thus putting themselves and Their Loved Ones in these constant

areas of life threatening enviroments.

Can you imagine what would happen for instance if one of them had to endure and go through what one of the parents has in the recent bus tragedy which claimed so many innocent lives.

I quote the following refering to one such unfortunate parent from one of Georges posts today :-

Quote:-

Manee Buriram, who received the body of her 16-year-old son Wittaya yesterday, said she would not take him yet pending a search for her eight-year-old son Arthit, who has yet to be identified among the remaining 15 charred bodies.

Manee said she had been working in Bangkok and her two sons, who lived with their grandparents in Maha Sarakham, were to visit her during a school break. "I still can't believe that I've lost both my sons at once," she said.

Unquote.

How sad and heartwrenching this must be for her and all the others who are effected on a daily basis with such sadness.

Lets us hope and pray their is now a serious and positive move to put an end to it where ever humanly possible along with rather than covering up for the offenders.

Anyone doing so should get the sentence their criminal actions deserve and they are incarcarated for many year to come.

Shame on those that constantly turn a blind eye while encouraging the companies, some of which they have vested interests of course

marshbags

Edited March 24, 2007 by marshbags

[OlRedEyes]

A lost cause, IMHO. At least for a few generations more. Debate is useless.

[jumnien]

I agree that it would be good to make Thailand a safer place to live for all. While the recent bus crash dramatically highlighted the dangers of bus travel and the upcoming Songkran holiday will highlight the dangers of motorcycling and auto transport, other risks must be addressed as well.

As has been noted on other threads the riskiest of behaviors of all in the land of smiles remain smoking, alcohol and drug consumption, poor diet and lack of exercise. Obesity and its complications will take out millions of Thais and hundreds of thousands of expats in Thailand in the upcoming years. We are far more likely to die from our lack of control over our own behaviors than the behaviors of others. Its easy to blame things external to ourselves, far more credible to eat a bit less and walk that extra kilometer.

This is not to downplay the serious problems with Thai road safety, just that road deaths will never approach deaths from obesity amongst our farang population. This is comforting as at least that is totally under our control.

[marshbags]

I tried to get the additional sentence in but the editing cut it of.

No offence intended but i,m sorry to say.

It would seeem that even in this short period since submitting the article that Negativity is as expected ongoing.

Never mind the facing reality stuff please and TIT ect. ect.................................

Let us all show our solidarity for change and the desire to try to make a difference instead of appearing to be flippant Which i,m sure no one is doing intentionally

The author of the article in my O.P. reflects to the authorities in a similar fashion and is wanting Honest endeavour to change the obligations of the Puyai into something lasting and meaningful instead of a

" Don,t give a ######, once the publicity goes down, attitude" ,

and of course it shouldn,t leave the front pages until change actually happens.

This is the only way forward if everyone in Thailand are to be safer as we rightly should be..........

These sort of comments are a demonstration of WHY their is no real progress and the sadness will go on indefinetly unless a different attitude is adapted by everyone from the effected to the uneffected.

The failed additional edit i tried to post refers to the last observation i make.

Shame on those that constantly turn a blind eye while encouraging the companies, some of which they have vested interests of course

" This shame also refers to those with the " OH Well This Is Thailand Mentallity " and thereby in doing so are dismissing this important issue to being just one of those things or words to that effect. "

IMHO of course.

marshbags

Edited March 24, 2007 by marshbags

[jumnien]

Shame, shame, shame. Oh, the shame! Nothing but shame.... Woe is us!

[marshbags]

Shame, shame, shame. Oh, the shame! Nothing but shame.... Woe is us!

I,m sorry you are unable to empathise with the frustration many of us feel with the futile loss of life that seems to get worse with no apparent solution in sight.

Perhaps i can ask all members who think it is worth ( at least it,s positive ) having a go at bringing attention to the situation and their concerns via their respective embassies and consuls.

Can i humbly ask that you email them with a short letter outlining your concerns and requesting them to possibly raise the matter with their counter parts at Thai institutions, where ever they may be.

Also perhaps sending one to the TAT authorities in a seperate email relating to safety on the roads regarding the buses in particular and the below standards and NOT acceptable.

After all many tourists use them and just maybe we can put a bit of weight behind the Thai communities.

At least we can try and perhaps feel a little better and positive that we have voiced our concerns, if nothing else.

I sincerely apologise if any of my remarks are taking away the importance of the O.P. and the article as this is not my intention.

Thank you

marshbags

Edited March 24, 2007 by marshbags

[andook]

Safety has always been a joke here. Always will, probably. No-one gives a <deleted> when it happens to the other guy. Its probably bad karma or whatever... ho hum.

[jasreeve17]

Marshbags is doing another long rant.

But I agree with this one in it's entirity.

People looking the other way, hunching their shoulders, "such is life", it doesn't affect me (this time)...

... these attitudes are a disgrace, and contribute to a farked up society. We all have social responsibilities, and should attempt to live up to them. Of course, it's tough when the Thais themselves seem to have different thoughts on the issue.

(although the writer of the article was Thai - encouraging!)

I've said it before:-

Thailand; first World pretentions, and third World realities.

[qwertz]

It's the classic result of progress at all costs. The tourists have a little less to worry about as their investment is small and short

term and the popular resorts have more police (?)presence. I've thought long and hard over retiring there and thanks to this

informative forum I'm now a little wiser. I sympathise with the expats there, especially those with investments and family ties, for

the shabby recognition of their contribution to this land. However, since they have no voting rights as far as I know, I feel that they

should have taken the logical steps and formed a national association instead of one expat in CM, one in BKK and another in

Phuket, whose only contact is through the web. They need to organise and get international legal advice in order to have a voice, or

one day they might find themselves in a similar situation to the white Zimbabweans. BTW, this is not criticism but rather concern.

[OlRedEyes]

It's the classic result of progress at all costs. The tourists have a little less to worry about as their investment is small and short

term and the popular resorts have more police (?)presence. I've thought long and hard over retiring there and thanks to this

informative forum I'm now a little wiser. I sympathise with the expats there, especially those with investments and family ties, for

the shabby recognition of their contribution to this land. However, since they have no voting rights as far as I know, I feel that they

should have taken the logical steps and formed a national association instead of one expat in CM, one in BKK and another in

Phuket, whose only contact is through the web. They need to organise and get international legal advice in order to have a voice, or

one day they might find themselves in a similar situation to the white Zimbabweans. BTW, this is not criticism but rather concern.

I think most expats will leave rather than fight. What's the point? Why expend a lot of energy if there is no hope of success? I don't think there are many retirees here that doesn't heed the 'don't bring to Thailand what you're not prepared to walk away from" advice, for this precise reason.

Many would like to settle permanently, and contribute to the welfare of the country, but few are so blind as to believe that this is a realistic expectation, even if they form a lobbying group. Reality, I'm afraid.

[tim armstrong]

From Todays Nation Sat, March 24, 2007 : Last updated 0:10 am (Thai local time)

Quote:-

JUST A THOUGHT

Please return to lost and found: public safety

Living in Thailand at this particular juncture requires a tough mind-set.

Politics is a mess, the baht is rising too fast, too furiously, and the South is literally a war zone. To make matters worse, road accidents and criminal offences are becoming more insane, as if Thailand is ruled by lawlessness.

You take a coach and it might just burst into flames; you walk down the street and suddenly you might be caught up in a school gang fight; and if you get into a verbal fight with someone, your arm might be cut off.

The point is that people living in Thailand in general, let alone the southernmost provinces, are taking unwarranted risks every time they step out of the house. Life is getting cheaper by the day.

Yesindeed it does seem that life is becoming more unsafe. Being aware

The call for public safety will be sounded whenever a fatal accident takes place, but in the end it will not materialise into anything substantial. The coach accident in Saraburi that killed 29 passengers this past week was not the first of its kind and it will definitely not be the last.

The high death toll shocked the nation, but actually similar unnecessary deaths occur every now and then within Thailand's transportation system. Passengers are not safe on buses, boats, trains or taxis.

And it's the same story every time. Carelessness on the part of the driver, or the operating company as a whole is to blame, and officials announce that stricter precautions and harsher punishments will be put in place.

However, time has proven that there are no prevention and punishment mechanisms in place at all. The Saraburi accident reflects how lax the laws and the enforcement of them are. There's no fear of punishment on the part of the coach operator at all as regards the way it maintains its buses. This particular one had been running for 36 years!

On an emotional note, there has not been a single word of apology from the coach company. To take a cue from previous cases, the operator will be allowed to run buses on the same routes pretty soon despite a one-week ban for now.

Even if the operator's licence is revoked, how can the authorities guarantee that a new operator will abide by the rules that are never respected nor feared in the first place?

The call for more stringent measures will fall, once again, on deaf ears. Just like the recycling of Thai lakorn (soap opera) plots, this whole vicious cycle will repeat itself when a tragic accident takes place in the future.

When will authorities get serious about setting public safety as a top priority and making these "accidents" unforgivable?

Meanwhile, leniency and nepotism prove to still be alive and well in Thai society. The fact that a girl got her right arm chopped off by a gang of three men for not playing their flirting game is just simply outrageous.

More disgusting is the fact that one of those involved is a police officer while the other two are security volunteers. The case was filed with the police station in Saraburi on February 26, but until the victim made it to National Police Office headquarters this past week, no progress had been made.

Local police officers, who worked at the same station as the accused policeman, tried to make the case seem as if it were an accident, and the victim has not yet received any compensation, even medical expenses, from the three so-called law enforcers.

In a case as appalling as this the three were granted bail and released temporarily. How can anyone expect to find peace of mind about personal security if officials are given bail so easily despite the gravity of the case and the fact that they are supposed to be the upholders of the law?

In fact, any government official, especially a member of the police force, should face tighter legal procedures and harsher punishments.

Since no real changes are in sight, the best policy is therefore to watch out for yourself. Make sure you are on alert at all time, ready to jump out the bus window, swim in the klongs or the Chao Phya River or run for your life if need be.

Actually, we're not the only ones leading risky lives - even fish are suffering with safety concerns as well.

The greatest mystery of the Ayutthaya-Angthong massacre that even Agatha Christie's detective Hercule Poirot might not be able to crack is who killed the fish? What caused the sudden lack of oxygen in the water? Will the culprits ever be found and more importantly, punished?

Human life, fish, fish, human life. Sadly, they face more or less the same fate.

Veenarat Laohapakakul

Unquote.

This for me is a good article and constructive in it,s comments as it covers safety in general along with some recent horrific incidents that we are at present debating.

How simple it would be to address and drastically reduce such happenings if the will of the Authorities, Politicians and not least of all The Thai People.

Please remember we are debating Thailand and not all the other countries of the world should anyone feel like submittng a cynical observation on it seeming to be O.K. here because X is the same or worse.

Safety and a reasonably safe enviroment along with quality of life are far more important.

It would also i am sure be sorted out in a heartbeat if some of the Puyai / Authorities and Officials also had to rely on public transport and thus putting themselves and Their Loved Ones in these constant

areas of life threatening enviroments.

Can you imagine what would happen for instance if one of them had to endure and go through what one of the parents has in the recent bus tragedy which claimed so many innocent lives.

I quote the following refering to one such unfortunate parent from one of Georges posts today :-

Quote:-

Manee Buriram, who received the body of her 16-year-old son Wittaya yesterday, said she would not take him yet pending a search for her eight-year-old son Arthit, who has yet to be identified among the remaining 15 charred bodies.

Manee said she had been working in Bangkok and her two sons, who lived with their grandparents in Maha Sarakham, were to visit her during a school break. "I still can't believe that I've lost both my sons at once," she said.

Unquote.

How sad and heartwrenching this must be for her and all the others who are effected on a daily basis with such sadness.

Lets us hope and pray their is now a serious and positive move to put an end to it where ever humanly possible along with rather than covering up for the offenders.

Anyone doing so should get the sentence their criminal actions deserve and they are incarcarated for many year to come.

Shame on those that constantly turn a blind eye while encouraging the companies, some of which they have vested interests of course

marshbags

Yes indeed, life here does seem to be less safe than a few years ago. With the Saraburi incident in mind I was a little disconcerted last night to notice the coach I was travelling on had a noticeable but not major, wheel wobble. Other passengers (all Thai) didn't notice as they probably thought it was normal, and anyway they were still celebrating after a function we'd all been to. When we stopped for a break I pointed out to the driver that he may have a tyre problem, or a simple wheel alignment issue. He just smiled. On closer examination the tyre was bald. But at 1am in the middle of nowhere what can be done? It explained to me why the driver seemed to be going so slowly, particularly around corners. 4hrs later we arrived 'safely' home.

On reflection I wonder if some of the apparent carelessness in these matters comes down to good old Thai fatalism?

Anyway, I'll probably stick to driving the car for a while now.

Tim

[Toptrainer]

I think if that writer Thai or not doesn't like it they should leave! Maybe he/she can go where all the falangs are told to go when they complain?

[qwertz]

Quote Tim: Yes indeed, life here does seem to be less safe than a few years ago. With the Saraburi incident in mind I was a little disconcerted last night to notice the coach I was travelling on had a noticeable but not major, wheel wobble. Other passengers (all Thai) didn't notice as they probably thought it was normal, and anyway they were still celebrating after a function we'd all been to. When we stopped for a break I pointed out to the driver that he may have a tyre problem, or a simple wheel alignment issue. He just smiled. On closer examination the tyre was bald. But at 1am in the middle of nowhere what can be done? It explained to me why the driver seemed to be going so slowly, particularly around corners. 4hrs later we arrived 'safely' home.

On reflection I wonder if some of the apparent carelessness in these matters comes down to good old Thai fatalism?

Anyway, I'll probably stick to driving the car for a while now.

It was around 1980 when the Thai gov. discussed bringing in a roadworthiness test for all motor vehicles. Conservative estimates then assessed that 75% of all vehicles would not pass a test without urgent repair, especially to running gear and bodywork. The idea was shelved, I don't know what the statistics are today but a cursory glance tells me there's been little improvement. A German test (very strict) would probably ground 90% on emission results alone.

Edited March 25, 2007 by qwertz

[jumnien]

Most of us farangs jump to the idea that laws must be changed and enforced, corporate and personal responsibility need to be monitored, shaming of individuals, companies, and entire countries is called for, etc.

My Thai wife's response is that one should take care and increase one's awareness of hindrances and obstacles around them.

Both are valid viewpoints. One is a bit calmer.