1 hour ago, MikeN said:

17 hours ago, candide said:

8% of UK's GDP depends on exports to the EU vs 2.3% for EU exports to the UK. The economic risk resulting from a no deal is nearly 4 times higher for the UK than for the EU.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.... //

Not lies; just facts !

Candide explained it clearly and simply.

If you can't understand that, then...  for you

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by Pattaya46

18 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Someone has been reading the Trump play book. I hope it goes better for them. Only trouble is Britain needs the EU a lot more than they need Britain. 

Of course they do. Scotland voted to stay in the EU so they will break away from the UK soon. Probably Ireland later because they also voted to stay in the EU.  A no deal will be catastrophic for the UK economy. The Brexiteers just can't understand this and label every negative aspect as project fear, talk about doing big deals with other countries.

But it won't happen, nothing will replace the trading with the EU. Just like Rome Egypt and Greece, Britain has lost its empire it has no colonies to exploit and sell third-rate consumer goods to. It will decline much more and be more like countries like Greece.

17 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The source was cited as making it clear that defense and security cooperation will be affected if the EU tries to keep Britain in the EU. The source also said that any EU states that oppose a delay would be granted good cooperation.

 

What a nonsense there is currently dangling in the UK leadership.

Incredible.

 

 

That is openly playing very dubious games. The sort of thing that could be expected from the non elected bureaucrat Cummings whose determined to deliver the chaos his millionaire masters want.

 

It is also very close to contempt of court in undermining the Supreme Courts decisions and the Benn Act. Hope some politicians are looking at how this nasty little fascist can be taken down.

4 minutes ago, gamini said:

It will decline much more and be more like countries like Greece.

As long as it's as warm as Greece too.

 

Pound just jumped off a cliff, now at 37, down 0.5 since yesterday.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by BritManToo

3 minutes ago, gamini said:

Of course they do. Scotland voted to stay in the EU so they will break away from the UK soon. Probably Ireland later because they also voted to stay in the EU.  A no deal will be catastrophic for the UK economy. The Brexiteers just can't understand this and label every negative aspect as project fear, talk about doing big deals with other countries.

But it won't happen, nothing will replace the trading with the EU. Just like Rome Egypt and Greece, Britain has lost its empire it has no colonies to exploit and sell third-rate consumer goods to. It will decline much more and be more like countries like Greece.

 

Scotland and NI can't just scratch their <deleted> and decide to leave the UK. Scotland would then have to apply for EU membership. Not the easy nod'wink process nationalists like to pretend. Nor would they dictate the leaving terms as they also pretend. NI wouldn't survive on its own. And many there would never agree to joining the Republic and many in Eire don't want them!

 

But apart from that you're right. The UK will decline, it has no empire to exploit like before. It has little manufacturing. But in such cases the very wealthy get even more wealthy, with even big slices of a smaller pie. Now guess which lot are supporting BJ and his cronies and pulling their strings? They stand to make billions and billions from the chaos you describe. And ensure their positions at the top are more secure.

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'm for No Deal now and let BJ wait 3/6 months for his election. Bring on the chaos, deaths from medicine shortages, businesses going bust pound getting rinsed, shortages in shops and thousands of lorry drivers at boiling point. Skirmishes between fishermen in the channel , armed paramilitaries on the Irish border playing roadblocks again. - all 24/7 on rolling news channels.   He'll be screaming to get back in . Let chaos reign and then back in and no more of this nonsense and let's remember who caused this chaos and those British who cheered it on can hang their heads in abject shame. Yes please No Deal and let's all choke on this poisonous bilge. So no more extensions EU kick us out and let us rot. Time to take the gloves off.

 

 

Nice avatar pic. The missus, by any chance?

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by Krataiboy

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

You really think that UK people who currently buy BMW, Mercedes or Porsche cars will stop to do so after Brexit because of a new tax? I doubt.

Yes, probably a slight reduction in sale volume, but nothing like 'plummet'.

 

They also act like Mercedes and Co don't have tons of employers in the UK. Aldi, car manufacturers, lidl, Zara, h&m etc the list goes on forever. All big EU companies that employ tons of British workers in Britain, only a monkey would wish them to do badly, making those UK workers unemployed. 

 

 

As always, only the rich UK cronies will win here and they are supported by a partially dumb population that doesn't realize they are just a bunch of chess figures that get played. 

 

Eton college 4D chess. 

 

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

This report is a damning indictment of the financial implications of Brexit. Which in no small way has adversely affected me and my family, by the baht dropping to a new low today. While not at starvation levels, the impact on others in similar situations is just as great, and as such, the leavers rhetorical mantra of exiting the EU on October 31st with or without a deal leaves an everlasting sour taste in my mouth.

 

And for what?  Has anyone on here been screwed like this by the EU? Don't think so. I can't wait for the comeuppance for the tory party at the forthcoming GE.  Reap what you sow, and what goes around comes around.

Poor embittered guy. Tories 15% ahead (yes, 15%) in yesterday's Opinium poll in the Observer. 

18 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'm for No Deal now and let BJ wait 3/6 months for his election. Bring on the chaos, deaths from medicine shortages, businesses going bust pound getting rinsed, shortages in shops and thousands of lorry drivers at boiling point. Skirmishes between fishermen in the channel , armed paramilitaries on the Irish border playing roadblocks again. - all 24/7 on rolling news channels.   He'll be screaming to get back in . Let chaos reign and then back in and no more of this nonsense and let's remember who caused this chaos and those British who cheered it on can hang their heads in abject shame. Yes please No Deal and let's all choke on this poisonous bilge. So no more extensions EU kick us out and let us rot. Time to take the gloves off.

 

 

I agree with with you. However It's so sad that UK people will suffer just because they followed that maniac. It's the very hard way of learning ????

But..... the doors are not shut forever. The day will come for UK to become the bloc's member again. They are always welcome ????

38 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Scotland and NI can't just scratch their <deleted> and decide to leave the UK. Scotland would then have to apply for EU membership. Not the easy nod'wink process nationalists like to pretend. Nor would they dictate the leaving terms as they also pretend. NI wouldn't survive on its own. And many there would never agree to joining the Republic and many in Eire don't want them!

 

But apart from that you're right. The UK will decline, it has no empire to exploit like before. It has little manufacturing. But in such cases the very wealthy get even more wealthy, with even big slices of a smaller pie. Now guess which lot are supporting BJ and his cronies and pulling their strings? They stand to make billions and billions from the chaos you describe. And ensure their positions at the top are more secure.

Very good post, especially the first para.

 

But I assume you will agree that "The UK will decline" is pure conjecture, and "it has no empire to exploit like before" is just the same silly rhetoric that has been far too prevalent amongst remainers for too long now?

 

I share your fears that brexit will allow politicians to lower 'standards' and increase the divide between rich and poor.  But on the other hand, if they get away with ignoring the brexit referendum result, this will happen even more quickly IMO.

 

Surely better to not allow politicians to get away with ignoring the referendum result?

 

With a bit of luck, if politicians are forced to accept the referendum result they will at least slow down in their plans to further impoverish the poor segment of society, and finally realise that they need to take into consideration the electorate?

18 hours ago, damascase said:

Donald Tusk

 

✔@eucopresident

 

 

.@BorisJohnson, what’s at stake is not winning some stupid blame game. At stake is the future of Europe and the UK as well as the security and interests of our people. You don’t want a deal, you don’t want an extension, you don’t want to revoke, quo vadis?

 

18K

5:39 PM - Oct 8, 2019

can't be clear than that, straight to the facts..... but sure brexiters will blame the EU, it's always easy to blame somebody else, easy to look one way never considering the possibility that BJ gang are liars .... pity

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

can't be clear than that, straight to the facts..... but sure brexiters will blame the EU, it's always easy to blame somebody else, easy to look one way never considering the possibility that BJ gang are liars .... pity

Never mind how you look at it, the EU needs serious reform..

 

I'd hoped this would happen as a result of the UK referendum result - but the EU preferred to dig back in its 'trenches' .

 

Nonetheless, the 'threats' pointed out in the OP are real.  The UK has far better security etc. etc. than the rest of the EU, and the EU is playing games by pretending this is unimportant

5 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

can't be clear than that, straight to the facts..... but sure brexiters will blame the EU, it's always easy to blame somebody else, easy to look one way never considering the possibility that BJ gang are liars .... pity

Bit of a strange post especially when J C Juncker said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"

1 hour ago, gamini said:

lost its empire it has no colonies to exploit

Very true, but they are still dreaming and can't stop themselves fighting WW2 a second time. They defeated Germany but lost their power, more even when Germany rose again from ashes becoming more successful than UK. 

So even their pride was gone. 

And now? Fighting the last battle against 250 mill. peacefull Europeans ... ?

How pathetic. 

Do they really want to have back this Splendid Isolation, which they were famous for centuries ago? With hard borders around? No freedom of movement? No visa-free traveling for holidays? ????????????????

I can't believe it! 

It is fun to watch a weakened UK finally get relegated to the second division.  I hope Boris can get that 'no-deal' to completely smash up the UK economy.  Time to pull your necks in little Britons and stop telling others what to do.

Edited October 9, 20196 yr by Ketyo

6 minutes ago, Ketyo said:

It is fun to watch a weakened UK finally get relegated to the second division.  I hope Boris can get that 'no-deal' to completely smash up the UK economy.  Time to pull your necks in little Britons and stop telling others what to do.

Still the 5th largest Economy in the world.

How is your country doing?

2 hours ago, MikeN said:

Lies, damn lies, and statistics....

8% of the Uk’s GDP (2.622 trillion $US) = 0.209 trillion dollars of exports going to the EU.

2.3%of the EU GDP (18.8 trillion) = 0.4324 trillion dollars worth going to the UK.

A mere $223,400,000,000 trade deficit....

I may have not remembered the exact figures or they were not up to date. The 18.8 trillion figure is about EU 28 but even by retracting UK's GDP.

So according to your remark, the % of GDP should be higher than 8% for the UK and lower than 2.3% for the EU. Actually it would show a worse situation for the UK than my previous comparison.

21 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Very true, but they are still dreaming and can't stop themselves fighting WW2 a second time. They defeated Germany but lost their power, more even when Germany rose again from ashes becoming more successful than UK. 

So even their pride was gone. 

And now? Fighting the last battle against 250 mill. peacefull Europeans ... ?

How pathetic. 

Do they really want to have back this Splendid Isolation, which they were famous for centuries ago? With hard borders around? No freedom of movement? No visa-free traveling for holidays? ????????????????

I can't believe it! 

 

This would be quite hilarious if it were not for the grotesque re-writing of history going on here.  (Well, not re-writing...just simple ignorance.)

The British fought WW2 when more or less bankrupt, and depending on American loans which had provisions that crippled the UK financially after the war.

Worse still, Germany, the home of fascist abomination, got all that Marshall Aid after the war which helprd the Germans to their feet very quickly and allowed them to become the nation they are today (ditto Japan).  Telling the British to eff off.

 

6 minutes ago, candide said:

I may have not remembered the exact figures or they were not up to date. The 18.8 trillion figure is about EU 28 but even by retracting UK's GDP.

So according to your remark, the % of GDP should be higher than 8% for the UK and lower than 2.3% for the EU. Actually it would show a worse situation for the UK than my previous comparison.

 

Eh??!!

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Still the 5th largest Economy in the world. How is your country doing?

Still dreaming of the past... 

India and France now do better than UK :

1. United States (GDP: 21.41 trillion)
2. China (GDP: 15.54 trillion)
3. Japan (GDP: 5.36 trillion)
4. Germany (GDP: 4.42 trillion)
5. India (GDP: 3.16 trillion)
6. France (GDP: 3.06 trillion)
7. United Kingdom (GDP: 3.02 trillion)
8. Italy (GDP: 2.26 trillion)
9. Brazil (GDP: 2.26 trillion)
10. Canada (GDP: 1.91 trillion)

5 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Eh??!!

My initial point was that, due to export figures, the impact of no deal on UK's GDP would be nearly 4 times the level of the impact on the EU. If my figures need to be corrected, it would rather show an impact higher than 4 times.

4 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

This would be quite hilarious if it were not for the grotesque re-writing of history going on here.  (Well, not re-writing...just simple ignorance.)

The British fought WW2 when more or less bankrupt, and depending on American loans which had provisions that crippled the UK financially after the war.

Worse still, Germany, the home of fascist abomination, got all that Marshall Aid after the war which helprd the Germans to their feet very quickly and allowed them to become the nation they are today (ditto Japan).  Telling the British to eff off.

 

Well, the Marshall Aid was given to Germany to prevent the population from dying. 

This aid was help to help themselves. 

Much cheaper than to provide food only. 

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Still

Exactly. Time will tell..... 

10 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

This would be quite hilarious if it were not for the grotesque re-writing of history going on here.  (Well, not re-writing...just simple ignorance.)

The British fought WW2 when more or less bankrupt, and depending on American loans which had provisions that crippled the UK financially after the war.

Worse still, Germany, the home of fascist abomination, got all that Marshall Aid after the war which helprd the Germans to their feet very quickly and allowed them to become the nation they are today (ditto Japan).  Telling the British to eff off.

 

I wish you’d stop posting such easily debunked nonsense:

 

At the start of WW2, the UK was in possession of the largest empire in recorded history, far from bankrupt.

 

And.....

 

In all, Great Britain received roughly one-quarter of the total aid provided under the Marshall Plan, while France was given less than one fifth of the funds.

 

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/marshall-plan-1

 

The UK, shock horror, was held to its war debts, this as a calculated US policy to strip the UK of the funds needed to keep hold of its empire.

 

A cold calculation Brexiteers should consider before putting the nation in need of going cap in hand to the US for a trade deal.

 

 

You really think that UK people who currently buy BMW, Mercedes or Porsche cars will stop to do so after Brexit because of a new tax? I doubt.
Yes, probably a slight reduction in sale volume, but nothing like 'plummet'.

I really do, yes. A few S-Class buyers may still sign away company money, but the bulk sales will drop when their prices increase.
The most biggest and most important sector, fleet buyers, are the most price sensitive too. They’ll drop imported cars like a hot frankfurter.

10 minutes ago, candide said:

My initial point was that, due to export figures, the impact of no deal on UK's GDP would be nearly 4 times the level of the impact on the EU. If my figures need to be corrected, it would rather show an impact higher than 4 times.

I for one, would appreciate it if posters would stop trying to manipulate statistics to their own end - as you can pretty much guarantee that these types of statistics can (and will) be interpreted in any way that suits an argument.

 

At the end of the day, various EU countries export more to the UK than vice-versa.  But the OP is about the UK pointing out that it is very important to the EU when it comes to 'security' info, compared to the rest of the EU combined. 

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

This report is a damning indictment of the financial implications of Brexit. Which in no small way has adversely affected me and my family, by the baht dropping to a new low today. While not at starvation levels, the impact on others in similar situations is just as great, and as such, the leavers rhetorical mantra of exiting the EU on October 31st with or without a deal leaves an everlasting sour taste in my mouth.

 

And for what?  Has anyone on here been screwed like this by the EU? Don't think so. I can't wait for the comeuppance for the tory party at the forthcoming GE.  Reap what you sow, and what goes around comes around.

Those that thought they were informed weren't as informed as they thought they were.

I was exporting to the EU before the single market, the paperwork was difficult then so why would anyone think that would change.

It is nothing but project fear, until it becomes project reality.

 

The HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) analysis said companies would face a "significant new and ongoing administrative burden" when transporting goods between the UK and EU in the event of no-deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-latest-businesses-customs-forms-hmrc-a9147866.html

31 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Still dreaming of the past... 

India and France now do better than UK :

1. United States (GDP: 21.41 trillion)
2. China (GDP: 15.54 trillion)
3. Japan (GDP: 5.36 trillion)
4. Germany (GDP: 4.42 trillion)
5. India (GDP: 3.16 trillion)
6. France (GDP: 3.06 trillion)
7. United Kingdom (GDP: 3.02 trillion)
8. Italy (GDP: 2.26 trillion)
9. Brazil (GDP: 2.26 trillion)
10. Canada (GDP: 1.91 trillion)

I'm surprised the Uk is in the top 20.

The countries below us must be complete basket cases.

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm surprised the Uk is in the top 20.

The countries below us must be complete basket cases.

Don’t fret, Johnson and the ERG are working on it.

41 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

This would be quite hilarious if it were not for the grotesque re-writing of history going on here.  (Well, not re-writing...just simple ignorance.)

The British fought WW2 when more or less bankrupt, and depending on American loans which had provisions that crippled the UK financially after the war.

Worse still, Germany, the home of fascist abomination, got all that Marshall Aid after the war which helprd the Germans to their feet very quickly and allowed them to become the nation they are today (ditto Japan).  Telling the British to eff off.

 

Maybe the Americans saw more spirit in those 2 Germany & Japan to invest in , as they where both a" beaten dog " , and not on " high horse acting ".... history proved they where right …..I love Japanese cars … excellent material  

But don't worry now the " Marshall aid" is coming very soon from under Trump's booth.... who knows maybe he like to buy England this time as Iceland refused ...