Britain tells EU: compromise on Brexit or we'll get nasty: Spectator source

[el torro]

35 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Bit of a far fetched assumption. I would suspect that a GE will result in another Tory /Lib Dem coalition.

Impossible to 'call' as the majority of tory MPs have no interest in leaving - but are reluctant to be so obvious.

 

I doubt it would be a Tory/Lib coalition as the latest reincarnation of the Libs. are 100% revoke article 50 - anathema to a large percentage of the voting population.

 

Not that it matters, as the main political players (Con./Labour) already know they will look even more silly if there is another GE in the near future.

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that a vote against JC was a vote for brexit.

A GE never has and never will provide an answer to the brexit question. If the 2017 GE had answered the question then we wouldn't be in this mess. TM threw away the majority and had to bribe the DUP, what sort of answer was that.

It is highly likely that come the GE the vote will be more distributed than ever before. You are probably quite right that Farage will take a hefty slice of the vote but no one is going to get into bed with him and there is every chance there will have to be an alliance.

 

Indeed, and irrespective of other issues Brexit will the absolute key focus.

 

I believe an alliance will be required on both sides of the Brexit divide. When push comes to shove the Tories are the only party that COULD win outright (I don’t think that they will). Labour are in disarray and have singularly failed to take advantage of the mess the Tories have made of things. Surely no one would trust Corbyn to run a raffle let alone the country. The Lib Dems have casually hovered up snowflakes and defectors to add to their moderate electorate. I was no fan of Cable but his “<deleted> to Brexit” polarized the party as the only truly Remain party. Swinson scares me with her ineptitude.

 

If Johnson’s discussions come to nought then I would say (Cable style) “<deleted> to a deal” we will go all in with a clean Brexit and give Farage his 90 seats.

[el torro]

25 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that a vote against JC was a vote for brexit.

A GE never has and never will provide an answer to the brexit question. If the 2017 GE had answered the question then we wouldn't be in this mess. TM threw away the majority and had to bribe the DUP, what sort of answer was that.

It is highly likely that come the GE the vote will be more distributed than ever before. You are probably quite right that Farage will take a hefty slice of the vote but no one is going to get into bed with him and there is every chance there will have to be an alliance.

I agree with a lot of this, but I'm still shocked at the appalling policies that May and her advisors came up with as a GE strategy!

 

'Conspiracy' does spring to mind in an otherwise predictable election.  (And I say this as someone who would NEVER vote for the tories!)

 

Nonetheless, both the tories and labours' election manifestos said that they would respect the referendum result - as has been pointed out in numerous threads.

 

But I do agree that in the next GE the vote is likely to be more distributed than ever before.

[Monomial]

2 hours ago, el torro said:

You forgot the Express and, sadly, the Guardian/Independent (????) and Telegraph.

 

Newspapers are making it ever more clear that they are far from unbiased.

 

This has always been the case obviously - but hopefully it will be a 'wake up' call to those with an open mind that all their reporting is biased in one way or another.

 

David555's post that brexit would lead to a shortage of toilet paper ???? pretty much encapsulates most of what has been said in MSM!

 

All media today is for entertainment purposes only. There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades.

 

Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting. Don't use these gems as toilet paper. In several hundred years they could be literary masterpieces, demonstrating the pretentiousness of an entire civilization. It is unconscionable you could think to deprive students 1000 years from now the opportunity to read this modern poetry simply for lack of a bum gun.

 

[el torro]

11 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

All media today is for entertainment purposes only. There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades.

 

Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting. Don't use these gems as toilet paper. In several hundred years they could be literary masterpieces, demonstrating the pretentiousness of an entire civilization. It is unconscionable you could think to deprive students 1000 years from now the opportunity to read this modern poetry simply for lack of a bum gun.

 

"There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades."

 

I agree.

 

"Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

Personally, I could do without it as it tends to irritate, rather than entertain.  Not to mention, all the remainers on these threads seem to believe the propaganda spouted.

 

"I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting."

 

They've been doing this for decades - pointing out the obvious bias between different newspaper articles on the same subject.

 

[SheungWan]

"There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades."
 
I agree.
 
"Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."
 
Personally, I could do without it as it tends to irritate, rather than entertain.  Not to mention, all the remainers on these threads seem to believe the propaganda spouted.
 
"I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting."
 
They've been doing this for decades - pointing out the obvious bias between different newspaper articles on the same subject.
 

Remainers unlikely to be stupid enough to read the Daily Express.

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[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Indeed, and irrespective of other issues Brexit will the absolute key focus.

If that were to be the case then all things being equal then the Lib Dems would get about 16.8 million and the 17.2 split in other directions.

Never going to happen, GEs do not work that way  so can never be a substitute for a referendum. More of a lottery than an answer to the brexit question.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

If it's austerity it's bad. If it's extra spending/borrowing it's bad. This decision is not dependent on Brexit.

 

Refusal to face reality is what got us in this mess.

They could shut the factory and throw away the keys and all we would see would be the shouts of project fear, claiming nothing more than a holiday.

 

Nissan warns no-deal Brexit would make entire European business model ‘unsustainable’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-brexit-no-deal-europe-unsustainable-car-industry-a9151296.html

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

You obviously have no idea how many leavers have understood what, why and for how long.

Obviously the words "In my opinion" were a deliberate omission.

I know a fairly large number of people that voted to leave and not one of them was based on long term anti EU sentiment. The most common arguments were GP waiting times and "too many foreigners". Problems of the UK's own making.

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Obviously the words "In my opinion" were a deliberate omission.

I know a fairly large number of people that voted to leave and not one of them was based on long term anti EU sentiment. The most common arguments were GP waiting times and "too many foreigners". Problems of the UK's own making.

Bet you don't know all 17.4 million of them. Just my opinion/guess, of course.

[stephenterry]

18 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

However the demise of the worst Tory government I have seen in my lifetime would be a great blessing for UK, and indeed the rest of the world. Rarely in politics has a cabinet so dishonest, inadequate, self serving, uncaring, venal, and incompetent ever been assembled. 

Apologies for extracting this viewpoint. I completely agree with the comments - a pity Rory Stewart is considering leaving the political scene - he's the one politician I could trust to play with a straight bat.

 

In a GE it is feasible that the Brexit party would soak up a few tory seats, as would the LD who would be given a free ride in marginal seats held by the tories. IMO, a hung parliament is not out of the question despite the current polls showing a healthy lead for the tories. 

 

Whether that would improve matters, is questionable, but it could rein in the extremists to a more broad church approach.

[stephenterry]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Bet you don't know all 17.4 million of them. Just my opinion/guess, of course.

Ah, so you didn't study the post referendum reports on why constituencies voted the way they did. It is quite enlightening. For example, in middlesboro men in a job queue said they voted leave because it had to be better than now - austerity biting. There are many other reasons quantified why people voted to leave, e.g. distrust of the EU by working class families on council estates, fears of immigrants taking jobs, etc etc.  None of which was about ideology. Which is what johnson and his right-wing cronies are pursuing, using the referendum vote as the rationale.

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Ah, so you didn't study the post referendum reports on why constituencies voted the way they did. It is quite enlightening. For example, in middlesboro men in a job queue said they voted leave because it had to be better than now - austerity biting. There are many other reasons quantified why people voted to leave, e.g. distrust of the EU by working class families on council estates, fears of immigrants taking jobs, etc etc.  None of which was about ideology. Which is what johnson and his right-wing cronies are pursuing, using the referendum vote as the rationale.

This is exactly it, a vote to remain is a vote for 'no change', and the poorer people in the UK can't see anything worse than their current position. A vote to leave is a vote for 'change', life at the moment is pooh, so let's roll the dice.

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Ah, so you didn't study the post referendum reports on why constituencies voted the way they did. It is quite enlightening. For example, in middlesboro men in a job queue said they voted leave because it had to be better than now - austerity biting. There are many other reasons quantified why people voted to leave, e.g. distrust of the EU by working class families on council estates, fears of immigrants taking jobs, etc etc.  None of which was about ideology. Which is what johnson and his right-wing cronies are pursuing, using the referendum vote as the rationale.

Aha! No. I certainly did not. Probably as factual as that IFS guesswork. Be off with you, varlet!

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Remainers unlikely to be stupid enough to read the Daily Express.

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True. They prefer to stoop way down and over on the left of the toilet brush holder, to reach the reliable and totally unbiased reporting from the Independent, and that other beauty, Gardening Today, something like that?

[stephenterry]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Aha! No. I certainly did not. Probably as factual as that IFS guesswork. Be off with you, varlet!

Clearly, then you know nothing, but still regard it as false.  In fact the reports came from polling booth constituencies who were willing to release such information for public record.  Before you jump in again, and make false allegations, know your facts, please - otherwise it just indicates you're a troll. Sorry.

[billd766]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:34 PM, david555 said:

(Thailand  Brexiteers & remainers …. time to start sending Bum Gunn's direction U.K.????)

 

Jon Craig

Chief political correspondent

 

Wednesday 9 October 2019 12:44, UK

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-bums-rush-no-deal-could-wipe-out-toilet-paper-stocks-11831093

Brexiteers will say it is the ultimate in "project fear", but it's claimed the nation could be caught short by a scarcity of toilet roll after the UK leaves the European Union.

Remainers will insist it shows Brexit is going down the pan, but a manufacturer has suggested some toilet paper supplies might not withstand long-term border delays or panic buying in the event of no-deal.

I can't see a problem there as I normally buy a pack of 24 and when it gets down to 12 I buy another pack.

 

Forward planning is easy if you think about it and then do it.

 

When I was a young boy in the 1950s we used cut up newspapers.

 

I never did like Izal though.

[BritManToo]

Ireland says there's a deal in sight, and the pound jumps from 37bht to 38bht.

Seems like the money markets are happy for Brexit to happen.

 

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Ireland says there's a deal in sight, and the pound jumps from 37bht to 38bht.

Seems like the money markets are happy for Brexit to happen.

More likely happy to not see a No-Deal Brexit happening... 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Clearly, then you know nothing, but still regard it as false.  In fact the reports came from polling booth constituencies who were willing to release such information for public record.  Before you jump in again, and make false allegations, know your facts, please - otherwise it just indicates you're a troll. Sorry.

You have provided not one of these reports, or even a link. You just picked out a couple of one-off examples suitable for your own purposes. I'll be involved if I want, I am not a troll and I am not sorry.

[jayboy]

23 hours ago, sandyf said:

Bit of a far fetched assumption. I would suspect that a GE will result in another Tory /Lib Dem coalition.

Then you suspect wrong.The Lib Dems will never go into a coalition with the Tories given the damage done to their party last time round.

[SheungWan]

Ireland says there's a deal in sight, and the pound jumps from 37bht to 38bht.
Seems like the money markets are happy for Brexit to happen.
 

The money markets are happy when no-deal Brexit retreats.

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[SheungWan]

True. They prefer to stoop way down and over on the left of the toilet brush holder, to reach the reliable and totally unbiased reporting from the Independent, and that other beauty, Gardening Today, something like that?

I do read the Homes and Gardens section in the Weekend FT.

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[SheungWan]

This is exactly it, a vote to remain is a vote for 'no change', and the poorer people in the UK can't see anything worse than their current position. A vote to leave is a vote for 'change', life at the moment is pooh, so let's roll the dice.

Spokesman for the poor rolling dice.

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[Jip99]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

If that were to be the case then all things being equal then the Lib Dems would get about 16.8 million and the 17.2 split in other directions.

Never going to happen, GEs do not work that way  so can never be a substitute for a referendum. More of a lottery than an answer to the brexit question.

 

Your answer is flawed.

 

Tell that to the Brexit party. Although they will claim a broader manifesto they are a one trick pony that will make it absolutely clear that they are the answer to the Brexit question.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I can't see a problem there as I normally buy a pack of 24 and when it gets down to 12 I buy another pack.

 

Forward planning is easy if you think about it and then do it.

 

When I was a young boy in the 1950s we used cut up newspapers.

 

I never did like Izal though.

Izal! Luxury, until you saw the end of your finger poking out through the middle.

[SheungWan]

Then you suspect wrong.The Lib Dems will never go into a coalition with the Tories given the damage done to their party last time round.

Not worth going that far ahead of resolving the no-deal equation. That's mainly what Sterling is reflecting.

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[gamini]

On 10/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, candide said:

8% of UK's GDP depends on exports to the EU vs 2.3% for EU exports to the UK. The economic risk resulting from a no deal is nearly 4 times higher for the UK than for the EU.

brexiteers dont understand simple economics. So they label every negative report as project fear 

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

True. They prefer to stoop way down and over on the left of the toilet brush holder, to reach the reliable and totally unbiased reporting from the Independent, and that other beauty, Gardening Today, something like that?

Without Brexit the Express has would have folded  there's only so many Maddy/Diana conspiracy stories you can make up.

[SheungWan]

Izal! Luxury, until you saw the end of your finger poking out through the middle.

Bronco was more upmarket than Izal which was the stuff one found hanging up in in outside cold school playground toilets.

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