FritsSikkink Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 18 hours ago, Scot123 said: Yet. And this was the number 1 reason we left Thailand. 20 days notice.... How can you really live your life and plan a future not knowing what crazy idea then law immigration will in pose next. I new it. How can you live without health insurance? Do you have a couple of million in your bank account or will you start a "go Fund Me"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momofarang Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Old Croc said: This part of the Police Order relates to extensions, not the granting of a visa overseas. We are nearly all familiar with the criteria for grant of extensions, but this order has now added a new criteria, numbered (6), that seems to require health insurance for an "alien who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A" Confusing wording that could be interpreted to include anyone who has ever been granted an O-A, not just those who get one after 31 Oct 2019. I'm sure IO's will interpret it in different ways. If Insurance is only required for new visa issue, why has the extension criteria been amended? I agree, the wording is explicit, and they wouldn't bother adding this paragraph here if it wasn't the case. The question that remains now is whether they have also amended the requirements for an extension of stay based on marriage. If this was the case everyone having entered on an OA would have to leave and come back on a non O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fex Bluse Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Sounds like getting foreign insurance (not Thai) might be best option and use the exclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBKK Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Anyone asking for a Shenghen visa, at least to travel to Italy like my wife, is required to present the insurance coverage for the period, so I do not see the problem, is safer for everybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmen Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, uncleeagle said: it initially wont apply. But what happens if in a year or so they say it will apply to everyone over 50 extension's ALREADY need to have the 400k in the bank. Non OA need 400k insurance, not rocket science 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Someone said that this is a scam to force the purchase of Thai insurance. Let's explore that. Firstly, if you get foreign insurance, then a form needs to be filled by the insurance company, signed by 2 directors of the company as well as other details. http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf That's never going to happen so you will be forced to a Thai insurance company. When looking at Thai Insurance, check if it's underwritten by a western company. The better ones are. If not, then you'll find that paying out is disproportionate to your premiums. They will always look for a 'get-out'. To check this, look at the company and check their inflows against their outflows. You'll probably find that their premium input exceeds any payout by a HUGE margin. Some of these Thai companies should be ashamed to call themselves 'insurance companies'. I suffered first hand when my son was laid up in hospital after being involved in an accident where a pick-up knocked him off his m/cycle causing some serious injuries. There came a point when the 'insurance company' turned up at the hospital to check him out of the hospital. He couldn't walk <deleted> after some very major surgery. Fortunately, he was a teacher and his school insurance kicked in. When I confronted the guy from the first company. "Surely, you have a duty of care in a situation like this." "No" he replied. "We are a business and we have to make money" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post iJustWanttoKnow Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2019 Hope this will be made clearer soon. Been here almost 14 years - not really many issues. But I had always considered that the 800,000 baht in the bank was a de-factor insurance policy. Have a health issue then use this 800,000 baht - it is two times the required insurance policy. What am I missing here? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmen Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, iJustWanttoKnow said: Hope this will be made clearer soon. Been here almost 14 years - not really many issues. But I had always considered that the 800,000 baht in the bank was a de-factor insurance policy. Have a health issue then use this 800,000 baht - it is two times the required insurance policy. What am I missing here? No need for insurance on retirement extension. This is not about extension. ignore the scare Mungers crystal ball gazing and endless what if scenario's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I can't be asked to read through 17 pages.... But just to comment (if no-one has yet said this), that this police order states that a Thai health insurance policy is required. Your $1 million policy with BUPA international that you sensibly already have, won't meet those requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swifty5x5 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 flash people stop reporting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looplaw Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 hours ago, legend49 said: Sent this to my son in Australia who was planning to come here in December. Went down like a lead balloon, he is cancelling and going to Vietnam instead wants me to visit him there. You raised a very wise young man . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyhangmon Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Melbun said: Judging by the constant smirking jollyhangmon isn't pleased to pay for insurance. Put a smile on your dial matey and suck it up. GFY 'matey'! Sucking up seems to be your speciality which is fine, you've obviously adapted (to yet another scam) as naturally preferred - just don't draw conclusions there about others ... Edited October 10, 2019 by jollyhangmon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rabas Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, madmen said: No need for insurance on retirement extension. This is not about extension. ignore the scare Mungers crystal ball gazing and endless what if scenario's. That may be bad advice. It is required according to the police order page 2 (above), section 6 which clearly states Thai medical insurance is required for extensions of type OA visas. Both the left and right columns make in clear the insurance requirement is only for type OA. Some retirees and all Thai wife visas are on type O, afaik. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AussieBob18 Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Russell17au said: It does not matter what the rules are or whether you like them or not every country has the right to set their own rules and if you do not like those rules then you do not apply for a visa to go to that country. Russell - I will try not to insult you, but you have made me angry so please bear with me. It is not about the rules - when I fist got an O-A in 2012 - it is about all the changes clearly designed to get more money and/or to drive out the 50+ Expats. This new rule, whcih was previously raised and dropped, has been started with less than a month's notice. NO OTHER Country has ever done that. Changing the rules for visitors is soemthing that should and is done very carefully in aver other Country mentioned (including mine). If the rules of 2012 were the same today, then you are right. But they are not. The Thai rules now are much much worse than in 2012 both financially and personally, and therefore what you said is total and utter rubbish. You dont think this is going to be applied to those already here on a 12 month O-A Visa? Good luck. You dont think this is going to be applied to those who apply for any 12 month O Visa? Good luck. You dont think this is going to be applied to those already here on any 12 month O Visa? Good luck. Get real Russell - it is coming to everybody. It doesnt matter that it is unfair or wrong. This is going to force a lot of people already struggling after the recent huge Baht increases, to leave Thailand. But there are many who cannot leave - they will probably have to go 'underground' and pay a 20K Baht fine if they are caught and deported. This is causing a lot of people problems Russell and your comments are both ignorant and stupid. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNROAMIN Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 15 hours ago, Time Traveller said: Wrong. Read the 2nd page of the Police Order. (the very first sentence) I am not going to correct you, however, keep in mind that this document was translated from Thai to English, which on many occasions can be rather confusing and there is very poor grammar, as well as sentence structure. First, on page one at the bottom sub para 2 states: A alien that has been granted a Non immigration O-A visa before this order of Oct 31 2019 is permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a granted length of stay. To me this means anybody who is living here now with extensions of stay are not affected. Secondly, the next page is the revised criteria for Aliens wanting to apply for a new O-A visa from their home country as from 31 Oct 2019. Prior to this new police order there was no requirement to have health insurance mentioned in the criteria for a O-A visa. This is my understanding of this new ruling. Everybody will interpret this differently, I am going to talk with my Immigration office for clarification if that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilly07 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Finally the Insurance Industry has reached an "agreement" with Immigration! The industry gets income and no outgoings from active young travellers and Immigration source another income stream. No point in applying to old codgers like myself as we can't get cover and self fund and would be a real risk to the income stream where we all know that the Insurance Industry doesn't take risks! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, rabas said: That may be bad advice. It is required according to the police order page 2 (above), section 6 which clearly states Thai medical insurance is required for extensions of type OA visas. Both the left and right columns make in clear the insurance requirement is only for type OA. Some retirees and all Thai wife visas are on type O, afaik. Whether you are right or wrong rabas is not relevent at this time. The fact is that you are probably right, and I agree that it will be applied to everyone eventually. That is what is causing a lot of people concerns. It is not fear mongering to speculate that what has been done already will not be extended. You think Thai Govt and Insurance oligargs are going to allow O-A Visas to cancel their insurance after being in Thailand for 12 months?? This is just the start IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmen Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said: You dont think this is going to be applied to those already here on a 12 month O-A Visa? Good luck. You dont think this is going to be applied to those who apply for any 12 month O Visa? Good luck. You dont think this is going to be applied to those already here on any 12 month O Visa? Good luck. Please read the financial requirements needed for extension's and then come back and tell us why you think it will apply to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, madmen said: Please read the financial requirements needed for extension's and then come back and tell us why you think it will apply to them Requirement: proof of income 65'000 THB per month. So ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilly07 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 The Insurance Industry doesn't want to offer cover to all those that self fund currently as that would require payouts! They certainly wouldn't want to cover all on extensions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNROAMIN Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Momofarang said: I agree, the wording is explicit, and they wouldn't bother adding this paragraph here if it wasn't the case. The question that remains now is whether they have also amended the requirements for an extension of stay based on marriage. If this was the case everyone having entered on an OA would have to leave and come back on a non O. My understanding is that this new criteria has been amended for extensions of stay to cover all new farangs/applications wanting to live here after 31 Oct 2019. Your first year is not an extension of stay it is an O-A visa, then after one year it becomes the extension of stay, I am hoping that all farangs before the new ruling takes effect will not be affected as it was not a requirement before 31 Oct 2019. Surely Thailand Immigration is not that stupid that they would instigate a ruling that would see thousands of farangs exiting Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerandDog Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 21 hours ago, Phanganguy said: So, its good logic .. type O based on retirement ... no need Type OA retirement ... 60k baht insurance Errrr OA extensions ... who knows!!! There's was a separate article posted in TV yesterday about health insurance and it referred to ALL new Non Imm visas. That's O & O-A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBob18 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, madmen said: Please read the financial requirements needed for extension's and then come back and tell us why you think it will apply to them Please read up on what has happened for the last 2-3 years and tell me why they will not apply it to them. PS - Good Luck if you think otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDGRUEN Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said: My understanding is that this new criteria has been amended for extensions of stay to cover all new farangs/applications wanting to live here after 31 Oct 2019. Your first year is not an extension of stay it is an O-A visa, then after one year it becomes the extension of stay, I am hoping that all farangs before the new ruling takes effect will not be affected as it was not a requirement before 31 Oct 2019. Surely Thailand Immigration is not that stupid that they would instigate a ruling that would see thousands of farangs exiting Thailand. The 2nd year of the O-A Visa works like a one year Extension of Stay (nearly identical) except there is no application to extend. An O-A Visa holder merely makes a border run a few days before the Expiry Date of the 1st. Year of the O-A Visa. Upon rentering Thailand, the O-A Visa Holder gets stamped back in 12 months in the future. Then visit the Immigration office to file a TM.30 / TM.28 Edited October 10, 2019 by JDGRUEN Spell correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fforest1 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 The problem with the O-A is you freeloaders were getting a extra year for FREE.....We cant have that......If we require you freeloaders to buy worthless health insurance that will help to offset your free year.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabas Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 56 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said: My understanding is that this new criteria has been amended for extensions of stay to cover all new farangs/applications wanting to live here after 31 Oct 2019. Your first year is not an extension of stay it is an O-A visa, then after one year it becomes the extension of stay, I am hoping that all farangs before the new ruling takes effect will not be affected as it was not a requirement before 31 Oct 2019. Surely Thailand Immigration is not that stupid that they would instigate a ruling that would see thousands of farangs exiting Thailand. I agree they may need to grandfather some older fogies otherwise the Thailand immigration crisis may rival Syria's in the news. They did grandfather long stay people when they raised the financial requirements to 800,000/ year. Type O-A. They can do this by comparing the initial OA visa date with the date of the new police order, as you say. The visa type and date follow you when you renew your passport. But there is no indication in the police order except an implied argument. But in their 'police' minds they are aware of the effective date of orders. Good news is they did not say retroactive. Type O. It's more likely they may grandfather older type O retiree visas because they are not yet required to have insurance. Of course all guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 What is difficult to understand is WHY are they targeting people applying for O-A visas? By their own admission and published stats, the 300 million unpaid debts by foreigners are, in the majority, TOURISTS! So because tourists have been identified as the main culprits of the 300 mill unpaid bills, generally law-abiding foreigners are being targeted. ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, DUNROAMIN said: Secondly, the next page is the revised criteria for Aliens wanting to apply for a new O-A visa from their home country as from 31 Oct 2019. Prior to this new police order there was no requirement to have health insurance mentioned in the criteria for a O-A visa. This is my understanding of this new ruling. Everybody will interpret this differently, I am going to talk with my Immigration office for clarification if that is possible. I find the police order to be as follows- It applies only (and the order uses the term only) to any O-A Visa issued after 31 October 2019. However, the problem is going to be the date of issuance of the insurance policy as part of the documentation presented states the policy needs to have a full year to get a full year extension. That means one who goes the O-A route has to time their Visa and extensions of stay in conjunction with the insurance I do believe that everyone who has an O-A issued prior to the order will be grandfathered . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Baht Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 23 hours ago, madmitch said: I really cannot see any other reason to include outpatient. It's ridiculous to make this compulsory and really pushes up the premiums. I have nothing against compulsory health insurance for those on long-stay visas that don't qualify for the Thai scheme, which is actually far wider than this applies to, but the unnecessary inpatient section will account for at least one third of the premium. It's definitely a gift to hospitals who overcharge for medicine and are losing the Thai market as regular drugstores are being allowed to fill prescriptions. Hopefully, expats will be able to spend that 40K on medicinal cannabis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worgeordie Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 8 hours ago, mickybangkok said: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Total <deleted> Your talking <deleted> as per usual regards worgeordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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