Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

There's an official police order from April this year and it's already released. It's not confusing at all.

 

"and the impact to U.S. citizens in general"

 

What's so special with US citizens?

 

Meaning, the impact not just on retired U.S. military personnel with existing insurance coverage, but also on other Americans with existing insurance coverage.

 

Since it's the U.S. government talking, they're going to be talking about the impact on their citizens -- not the British, French, Germans, etc etc...  Same as would be the case for any government and its comments.

 

PS - The multitude of Thai govt. documents and news reports that have surfaced on this issue in the past couple days have been nothing but CONFUSING.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

So before 31st Oct enter no problem on an O-A ME, you have used your crystal ball an asked for the insurance (cert) to start on the day of entry.

You then decide to go to Japan for the weekend, a month later for 4 days. You re-enter and get 365 days - 1 month -4 days, so you get 330 day entry stamp. Is that the way it works?

If it does work that way, could you arrive with 91 days of insurance and just get a 90 Day stamp? As the year is no longer the default must have. This is ignoring the link to the foreign insurance cert thingy, that someone linked,  which is printed on unobtainium

Read the last paragraph of the police order and it states that if you have a current O-A visa then this does not affect you until the term of your current O-A visa reaches the end of your approved length of stay.

[sambum]

"Satit said 14 private insurance companies in Thailand had joined the project."

 

Now there's a surprise! Surprised there's not more! 

 

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"Satit said 14 private insurance companies in Thailand had joined the project."

 

Now there's a surprise! Surprised there's not more! 

 

A lot of them are foreign based companies with branches here in Thailand

 

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

"Satit said 14 private insurance companies in Thailand had joined the project."

 

Now there's a surprise! Surprised there's not more! 

 

The others got trampled in the stampede to the trough. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Neocon said:

As of this morning, U.S. Embassy staff have not yet received any notification on this issue from the Thai government.

 

Perhaps it got mistakenly mixed in with the tea party invitations, and thus has gone temporarily missing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The police order only mention O-A visa extensions. Nothing else. 

 

There is no such thing as O-A visa extensions...

 

There are O-A visas..issued abroad.

 

And then there are retirement extensions issued here that CAN be issued on the basis of prior O-A visas (along with other types as well).

 

[holy cow cm]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The police order only mention O-A visa extensions. Nothing else. 

Yes but a Poster in the morning posted a link that has the minister of health quoted by Reuters stating long term foreigners of extension over 50. 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2019/10/10/foreigners-insurance-visa-requirements-over-50s-thai-deputy-public-health-minister-sathit-pitutecha/

[Sheryl]

Read the last paragraph of the police order and it states that if you have a current O-A visa then this does not affect you until the term of your current O-A visa reaches the end of your approved length of stay.

Not quite. It states this if you have already entered on an O-A visa.

There are people who have been issued a visa but not yet entered. Interpretations differ as to the situation for someone issued a visa before the effective date but entering after it.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Meaning, the impact not just on retired U.S. military personnel with existing insurance coverage, but also on other Americans with existing insurance coverage.

 

Since it's the U.S. government talking, they're going to be talking about the impact on their citizens -- not the British, French, Germans, etc etc...  Same as would be the case for any government and its comments.

 

And I repeat my question:

What's so special about common US citizens when it comes to health insurance? I am not talking about the military. Why do you think that every european government will comment the upcoming insurance? This is not news, the police order was released in April this year,and you can only apply for the O-A Visa in your home country. So, there's no real need for embassies/consulates to comment it,but they will, of course,just for information.

[sambum]

4 hours ago, rocketdave said:

As I have said on here a few times I'm not against medical insurance but I am 70 with three preconditions (hypertension, diabetes 2, and gout.) The premiums I am being quoted are about 90% of the 400,000 + 40,000 Baht cover required, rising every year of course as I get older. My point is, If I can afford the premiums I can afford to pay at least that much of any medical costs so paying this large sum every year is basically robbery.

If this robbery becomes law and effects us on retirement extensions (which I'm sure it will) I, like many others, will be Cambodia bound.

I also can't understand how some people get hospital treatment without paying, a friend went into hospital in Rayong and had to pay 10,000 Baht on entry before they would even look at him. His bill was less than that and he got a refund of the balance.

 

I think that a lot of the bills must be for "post op care". Maybe people have enough cash/insurance to pay for the initial treatment, but in a private hospital the after care costs can soon rocket.

And I agree with your final statement 100%. A friend of mine required an operation costing 80,000 baht and they wanted payment up front before doing it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

And I repeat my question:

What's so special about common US citizens when it comes to health insurance? I am not talking about the military. Why do you think that every european government will comment the upcoming insurance? This is not news, the police order was released in April this year,and you can only apply for the O-A Visa in your home country. So, there's no real need for embassies/consulates to comment it,but they will, of course,just for information.

 

The issue that's pretty much glaringly obvious to everyone -- but apparently not to you -- is the absurdity of requiring crappy, low coverage but high premium Thai health insurance policies against groups of expats who ALREADY have various forms of their own health insurance with higher limits that's perfectly valid and usable in Thailand.

 

The U.S. military retiree health insurance coverage is usable in Thailand. And many other expats, not just from the U.S., have their own private health insurance cover that's valid internationally. So if they're already covered and would pose no burden on the Thai government health care industry, then why require them to have expensive, duplicative Thai policies that cover less than their own?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Max69xl]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There is no such thing as O-A visa extensions...

 

There are O-A visas..issued abroad.

 

And then there are retirement extensions issued here that CAN be issued on the basis of prior O-A visas (along with other types as well).

 

So you think you can't extend the O-A Visa? Of course the extension is based in the O-A retirement visa,but it will still be an O-A extension with a required health insurance, and you need the 800k in the bank. You must learn how to read. There's no other terminology. 

[RedPill]

4 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

So you think you can't extend the O-A Visa? Of course the extension is based in the O-A retirement visa,but it will still be an O-A extension with a required health insurance, and you need the 800k in the bank. You must learn how to read. There's no other terminology. 

Ok, so that was what I've been asking yesterday. 

 

I didn't care so much whether it's an O or O-A after you got it into an retirement extension. That was just the base to get an extension.

 

What I was wondering about is this:

 

- To get O-A, you need to fulfill the health insurance requirement for the first year

then you extend into a retirement extension, and then you don't need this health insurance requirement anymore?

 

That doesn't make much sense to me ????

 

So why not the same requirement for an O, where you also can stay a year?

 

What's the difference or reason why this only applies to O-A?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by RedPill

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

So you think you can't extend the O-A Visa? Of course the extension is based in the O-A retirement visa,but it will still be an O-A extension with a required health insurance, and you need the 800k in the bank. You must learn how to read. There's no other terminology. 

It's an extension of stay, not an extension of visa... The visa is issued and then dies once its period has run. After that, you either get a new visa or apply for an extension of stay... not an extension of visa.

 

And yet there are folks here claiming the new insurance requirement only applies to actual O-A visa holders, and not to retirement extension of stay holders who previously had O-A visas...

 

As more info comes in, I'm increasingly persuaded it's going to apply also to retirement extension holders who previously had O-A visas, if not to all retirement extension holders regardless of what prior visa they had.

 

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, sambum said:

I think that a lot of the bills must be for "post op care". Maybe people have enough cash/insurance to pay for the initial treatment, but in a private hospital the after care costs can soon rocket.

And I agree with your final statement 100%. A friend of mine required an operation costing 80,000 baht and they wanted payment up front before doing it.

80k is not a bad price for surgery. Pick a private hospital in Pattaya,Phuket or Bangkok and that sum won't get you anywhere. 

[Russell17au]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There is no such thing as O-A visa extensions...

 

There are O-A visas..issued abroad.

 

And then there are retirement extensions issued here that CAN be issued on the basis of prior O-A visas (along with other types as well).

 

You can get a single 1 year extension on an "O-A" visa and at the end of that extension you must either return to your home country and apply for a new "O-A" visa or you can cross the border and obtain a Non-Imm "O" visa for 90 days and then as long as you meet the financial requirements then you can apply for your extension based on retirement

[Max69xl]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's an extension of stay, not an extension of visa... The visa is issued and then dies once its period has run. After that, you either get a new visa or apply for an extension of stay... not an extension of visa.

 

And yet there are folks here claiming the new insurance requirement only applies to actual O-A visa holders, and not to retirement extension of stay holders who previously had O-A visas...

 

As more info comes in, I'm increasingly persuaded it's going to apply also to retirement extension holders who previously had O-A visas, if not to all retirement extension holders regardless of what prior visa they had.

 

The police order mention extensions based on the previous visa, in this case only the O-A. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You can get a single 1 year extension on an "O-A" visa and at the end of that extension you must either return to your home country and apply for a new "O-A" visa or you can cross the border and obtain a Non-Imm "O" visa for 90 days and then as long as you meet the financial requirements then you can apply for your extension based on retirement

 

It's not an extension of the visa... It's an additional one year permission to stay that's granted every time you enter on the visa...up until it expires at the end of its 12 month validity period.  You're mis-using the terms and what actually occurs.

 

The visa is dead at the end of the first year, period. It is not extended in any way. But the person can get their last 12 month permission to stay before the visa expires.

 

That's a permission to stay, which is an entirely different thing than an extension of stay based on retirement.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[RedPill]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You can get a single 1 year extension on an "O-A" visa and at the end of that extension you must either return to your home country and apply for a new "O-A" visa or you can cross the border and obtain a Non-Imm "O" visa for 90 days and then as long as you meet the financial requirements then you can apply for your extension based on retirement

Good, and then you don't need the health insurance requirements anymore for the retirement extension, only for the O-A which opened the door to it?

 

This doesn't make sense to me ???? 

 

It makes only sense if the health insurance is then also required for subsequent extensions ... and I think this will come.

 

How can they ask or have a requirement for the first year, but not for the second, third etc. on extensions?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by RedPill

[Caine]

6 hours ago, glennb6 said:

So now, a few days back I read that health insurance was to be manditory for new O-A visa applicants over 50 yrs of age. Not a very clear explanation for an official announcement, but I'm now extending my O-A visa, not applying for a new one, so I passed on the details.

 

Today I read that the plans are "updated" to include ALL over 50 O-A visas, new and extensions, and again with less than clear guidelines. I will only speak for myself because that's the only person I am an expert in knowing.

 

Seems I am considered first, a long stay TOURIST. I thought I was a long term Non-immigrant? Something about being deemed a temporary tourist bothers me both from the perspective of being considered temporary by the authorities, and from the point of security of lifestyle. The later in that I am retired here, intend to live here until I die, and if that makes me a "non-immigrant" fine, but a temporary tourist?? Maybe tourists will be limited to X number of months one of these days at the whims of, well...

 

I am very INSULTED to be called "high risk" because I am over 50 yrs old. Hey, we all die some day but some people are healthier than others regardless of age. Some people live a healthier life style than others, regardless of age. I do know age discrimination when it's typed in print in my face by the host government!

 

Me, knock on my wooden head, I am healthy, never needed a hospital or a doctor in countless years. I'm not fat/overweight. I eat healthy, I exercise regularly and am in better shape than most 30-40 yr olds. I don't smoke, I rarely drink alcohol, I am in a monogamous relationship with my GF, and my stress levels are near zero. Sound pretty good and low risk to me.

 

I rarely ride public transportation, which seem to overturn, have brake failures, and driver brain failures resulting in crashes thus ranking Thailand rather high on road fatalities and injuries. I drive an older Toyota pickup and a whimpy Honda Wave motorcycle. I have Thai driver licenses and extra insurance on the pickup truck. I drive safely, sober, and on the lookout. Anyone who has ever been here and especially who live here knows how bad the driving is.

 

Tourists who rent larger motorcycles and blast around drunk. Locals who believe Buddha will protect them and don't bother looking who they drive in front of or on which side of the road they drive. Half the population who rides motorcycles sans helmets, and frequently three plus people on two seat motorcycles...yea. Many locals don't have driver licenses, carry insufficient insurance if any, and apparently frequently run from the scene of accidents (according to the daily news reports)...yea, who is it that is 'high risk'???

 

Police? Apparently they are there at the occasional roadblock to check helmets, license, and other minor stuff. Many people remember the recent news report with pictures of three young boys stopped at a roadblock, one wearing a metal pot on his head, and the police standing around chuckling how funny that was. Too young for licenses, no helmets, insurance? Driving skills?  Say no more.

 

I stress the road safety issues because driving is high risk here, but hey, because I'm an over 50 non-Thai, I am considered high risk. Essh.

 

So, I checked the premium rates for the stated minimum required insurance of 400k in patient and 40k outpatient coverage and surprise surprise surprise... 81,746 baht per year for 61-67yr olds. Seems a bit high for very minimal coverage, especially when the government has recently and officially condoned public hospitals to charge "whatever they feel like" for foreigners.

 

My current coverage with same company is 780k inpatient, zero outpatient. If I am injured and require outpatient care I will pay out of pocket. As my visa requirement is that I must have 800k in Thai banks, I think I can cover the 40k baht minimum.

 

My current coverage including discounts for no outpatient coverage, a deductible, and not having used the insurance (now in 2.5yrs since I started) is 19,238 baht per year.

 

So for lesser coverage the government is expecting me to pay an additional 62,508 baht every year!?? Expecting me to be OK with insurance that provides me with lesser coverage but costs 425% more than what I voluntarily buy now!??!!

 

At the very best and kindest, this is full on incompetence and disregard, and at worst it smells like government corruption, collusion with the insurance business, graft, and theft from a small segment of the non-resident population that is expected to say nothing as they are not Thai and just pay, just pay.

 

I don't like (but knew and agreed to before retiring here) having to keep 800k baht in Thai banks on a permanent bases. Didn't really care for the 2 months prior and 3 months after extension requirements because it sounds like the government assumes I'm trying to cheat the system with an agent (I am not). I don't travel in country much at all so the TM30 tracking doesn't affect me, but it seems childish and ineffectual if really intended to track criminals. I grin and report myself in to immigration every 90 days even though it makes me feel like a parolee, but at least the process is quick.

 

Now, the government says I will be required to pay an additional $2050 USD for their approved insurance scheme. I am not a big spender like the 2 week millionaire tourists or rich Thais, but my spending is a 100% positive income for the country, not to mention the 800k baht stuck in the bank. It costs Thailand ZERO, NOTHING to have me here, and I expected to live this way for another 20 to 30 years.

 

This mandatory insurance scam is insulting, way over the top costly, and provides significant mistrust in what the government may come up with next for me trying to live here.  Of all the policies and rules, this is one that may well push me to look elsewhere to live in retirement.

 

This rant is mostly "preaching to the choir" but maybe it will be read by some Thais, may some Thail government officials.

Simple answer go live elsewhere. Job done.

[wwest5829]

12 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Hopefully, this will avoid numerous scaremongering, nonsensical posts as in the other threads about the insurance

Just sayin:

Update on Health Insurance for OA visas.
Please note this is only for Chiang Mai immigration. They have confirmed that any person who has previously held and OA visa and then extended it inside Thailand WILL NEED health insurance for the renewal. This means if you arrived 3 years a go on an OA visa and since then have been getting extensions in Chiang Mai, you will need to show health insurance at your next extension. For those that do not qualify for insurance or cant obtain it, your option is to leave and then reapply for a NON 0 visa and then get a 1 year extension based on Retirement. Please note that health insurance isnt currently required for the Non 0 Retirement extensions. For any questions contact [email protected]

[zydeco]

This is what happens when generals, bankers, and insurance companies control immigration policy.

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, RedPill said:

Good, and then you don't need the health insurance requirements anymore for the retirement extension, only for the O-A which opened the door to it?

 

This doesn't make sense to me ???? 

 

It makes only sense if the health insurance is then also required for subsequent extensions ... and I think this will come.

 

How can they ask or have a requirement for the first year, but not for the second, third etc. on extensions?

 

 

The insurance is for anything to do with the "O-A" visa and the extra 1 year that you can get for it (it does not matter if you want to call it an extension or a permission to stay or an extra time it is all the same) You can get 2 years from the original entry date and for that full time you must have health insurance plus if you return to your home country and apply for a new "O-A" visa then you will be required to have the health insurance but if you do not return to your home country to get a new "O-A" visa and you go to Loas, Vietnam or any other country and apply for a 90 day "O" visa then you do not need the health insurance for that. But, if you decide on the "O-A" visa then you must show your financials in your home country and if you change to the 90 day "O" visa with the extension based on retirement then you must show your financials in a Thai bank account.

[sambum]

20 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

80k is not a bad price for surgery. Pick a private hospital in Pattaya,Phuket or Bangkok and that sum won't get you anywhere. 

It was a minor operation - one night overnight stay and then back home.

[Sumarianson]

Does this mean retirees on Non Imm 'O' require the insurance or not? It seems to me they have only specified O-A. If it is brought in for Non Imm. 'O' then the insurers are pricing us out of the country. There is no need for outpatient cover as that is always affordable. If the long stayer retireee can show that he has always had over 40000 in his account at any time during his stay then he would be able to pay outpatient bills. The cover of 400000 would not be enough for most xpats like me and reasonable prices for a more extensive cover should be provided by the insurers. Govering holidays of no more than a month duration with worldwide, Europe, Europe and UK and Worldwide inc USA or USA and Asian countries. I admit it would be wise to have cover but at tje moment any reasonable cover from a half decent company is knocking on 60000 Baht per year for a 60 year old or less. There needs to be a clause yo ensure renewability at a reasonable cost after 70. Insurance companies could make a bundle from this do it should be fair and reasonable. There should also be an insurance policy to cover Thai government hospitals for those who cannot afford the private hospitals cover. This would help fund Thai hospitals and prevent non payment of bills. Though I doubt that few long term retiree have failed to pay his bills ic any. Most is caused by tourists not being insured. That should definately stop. I have never gone anywhere without insurance cover.

[sawadee1947]

That's only the first step. 

On the long run ALL retirees will have to have an insurance. 

And that would be good for the sake and benefit of every foreigner in this country ????

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, weegee said:

Considering a lot have to support the Family as well. It should not be required for Non O base on Marriage.

Finally had enough of all the <deleted> unfolding...Lets see if the wife and families of Marriage Visas, stand up to the government and put a stop to all this rot...Who do you think pays for all the medical requirements already for oneself AND Family?

 

 

 

6 hours ago, weegee said:

And thats whats going to happen....BOOM...falang gone cant stay....Families back to eating nothing again, so they look like they are keeping up with everyone else around them....

Damn Sad actually to think of how many Families are going to be torn apart over this ...

 

The first threat to my staying in Thailand came up when it was noted that 1 out of 12 months fell below the 65K. Nevermind, "we are going to be lenient this year" or that the monthly average is above 65K. Nevermind being told I am like a paroled criminal being required to file a new TM30 if staying outside the province for 24 hours (C.Mai) and now cannot get medical insurance at a cost I can afford ... gee Thailand 400K in hospital coverage but the insurance policy will not cover my heart condition ... I sold everything in the US to be a permanent resident retiree in Thailand and you treat me like this???

Edited October 11, 2019 by wwest5829

[cnx101]

8 hours ago, Knocker33 said:

Thailand insurance companies had joined the project. Now there's a surprise 

Like vultures 

[Russell17au]

12 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Does this mean retirees on Non Imm 'O' require the insurance or not? It seems to me they have only specified O-A. If it is brought in for Non Imm. 'O' then the insurers are pricing us out of the country. There is no need for outpatient cover as that is always affordable. If the long stayer retireee can show that he has always had over 40000 in his account at any time during his stay then he would be able to pay outpatient bills. The cover of 400000 would not be enough for most xpats like me and reasonable prices for a more extensive cover should be provided by the insurers. Govering holidays of no more than a month duration with worldwide, Europe, Europe and UK and Worldwide inc USA or USA and Asian countries. I admit it would be wise to have cover but at tje moment any reasonable cover from a half decent company is knocking on 60000 Baht per year for a 60 year old or less. There needs to be a clause yo ensure renewability at a reasonable cost after 70. Insurance companies could make a bundle from this do it should be fair and reasonable. There should also be an insurance policy to cover Thai government hospitals for those who cannot afford the private hospitals cover. This would help fund Thai hospitals and prevent non payment of bills. Though I doubt that few long term retiree have failed to pay his bills ic any. Most is caused by tourists not being insured. That should definately stop. I have never gone anywhere without insurance cover.

The official police order that is dated on Sept 27, 2019 as stated is for "O-A" visa only, this also includes the extra 1 year that you can apply for to effectively give you 2 years before this visa expires.