At What Age Would You Take Your Kids Out To Bars?

[MsFigure]

OK, I'm waiting for the gasps of horror, but my son is 5 & I've taken him to bars since he was 3. His father was a musician who played in a rock band in a bar & I'd take him to see his Dad play. Now, his father's dead we (very occasionally) still go to see his dad's friends play. My son is a total rock music addict. His favourite songs are "We will rock you" and "Smoke on the water". I very rarely go out anymore (as can be seen by my post times on here), but if I do, I usually take him. To me, it's a connection to his father & if others think I'm wrong, I guess that's up to them.

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest. If we do go out for dinner and want to bring her along, we make sure we go out early so we're home no later than 9pm, where she usually crashes out in her stroller in the restaurant before we even start our meal...... and if we want a late night out, we organise a sitter to stay with her at home while she is sleeping.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

As for taking MY daughter out to a bar? Not a chance. First she is a minor and secondly, we wouldn't take her anywhere that has loud music (that you can't speak over), is dark, smokey and has the majority of people in it drinking alcohol or wasted (on drugs).

Isn't it illegal anyway to take children into any places that serve alcohol like bars, pubs, nightclubs, etc

Di

[GuestHouse]

if you really think I care anything about the way you raise your children then your ego must be at warp factor 5

Then why are YOU asking or even concerned about my response?

This thread is aimed at parents of young children, you don't have young children so why are here and why are you bothered about MY posts on the subject of my reasoning for what I do with MY children.

Listen up Gummy, when I suggested you get a hobby, I didn't mean stalking me here on TV. And let's be honest about this Gummy, your responses singling me out for your drivel seems very much like stalking.

So please, go live your own life.

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest. If we do go out for dinner and want to bring her along, we make sure we go out early so we're home no later than 9pm, where she usually crashes out in her stroller in the restaurant before we even start our meal...... and if we want a late night out, we organise a sitter to stay with her at home while she is sleeping.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

As for taking MY daughter out to a bar? Not a chance. First she is a minor and secondly, we wouldn't take her anywhere that has loud music (that you can't speak over), is dark, smokey and has the majority of people in it drinking alcohol or wasted (on drugs).

Isn't it illegal anyway to take children into any places that serve alcohol like bars, pubs, nightclubs, etc

Di

Great Post Di, and no you are not the only one who agrees bars are not the right environment for children.

[jdinasia]

I love living where I do ..... the bars down on beach road fall into 2 types ... ones with single guys playing pool etc. and ones where women and families go. <no gogo's and no discos> Almost all are open to the air so they aren't dark and smokey and the ones that families go to don't seem to draw people getting DRUNK ... just folks out for a drink or 2. Strangely <tongue in cheek> there aren't any 'pros' in the more family places either. But why would it be strange that most people go out for a drink or 2 ... don't get stinking drunk ... and that there are places w/o hookers?

I don't have a problem with folks bringing kids along almost anywhere ... I do have a problem with gross stereotyping though

[britmaveric]

Well if it serves food then I don't have a problem with lil ones being there if its reasonable hour. I dunno I always was in bed by 7-8pm. As for pro(s) adding to the mix - no problem with lil ones being around them - they are great with kids and love em.

[OlRedEyes]

I wouldn't take a kid into a bar for reasons already mentioned here, for the kid's sake.

Additionally, a bar, whether it has prossies or not, is generally considered an adult venue. Therefore it's patrons could reasonably expect not to be entertained by a kid roaming around. Kids don't sit still. They run around, sometimes screaming, annoying everybody except the motherly types. Plus now the patrons have to watch themselves.

I have kids, I respect the fact that you would want your family to have a good time. Take them to a restaurant, not a bar. Please. Consider others as well. They have a right to escape from kids when going to a bar.

[chanchao]

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

Yup, I guess we stumbled upon one more difference between Thailand and the West.. Indeed in Europe (etc.) you'd NEVER see children out of bed after 8am, no matter what. It's quite a common sight in Thailand though.

Personally I would prefer my kid to be in bed too by 8am (heck, the earlier the better. ) but... she just doesn't want to go to sleep. Yesterday I think it was almost 10 O'clock.

The plus side of that is that she doesn't wake up at ungodly hours in the morning. When I was a kid myself it always struck me as weird that I had to be in bed directly after Sesame Street, but then people would complain when I woke up the house & general environs at 6am. 'Well gimme a fricking life then', I thought, or thoughts to that effect.

[chanchao]

(Though also note that when I talk about bars I do actually mean 'at a for the kid appropriate time'. So daytime, or early evening, etc. )

[MsFigure]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks the little ones should be in bed at reasonable hour.

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

Yup, I guess we stumbled upon one more difference between Thailand and the West.. Indeed in Europe (etc.) you'd NEVER see children out of bed after 8am, no matter what. It's quite a common sight in Thailand though.

Personally I would prefer my kid to be in bed too by 8am (heck, the earlier the better. ) but... she just doesn't want to go to sleep. Yesterday I think it was almost 10 O'clock.

The plus side of that is that she doesn't wake up at ungodly hours in the morning. When I was a kid myself it always struck me as weird that I had to be in bed directly after Sesame Street, but then people would complain when I woke up the house & general environs at 6am. 'Well gimme a fricking life then', I thought, or thoughts to that effect.

The trick to getting your child used to a routine, especially the night sleep/morning wakeup - is to TRAIN THEM, which starts from the moment they are brought home from the hospital. Our daughter was always in bed at 5.30pm from the word go. The first 6 months or so they wake up for feeds, but we never took her out of room so after she finished her feed it was back to bed for her. She got used to the fact that once she went upstairs at that time, she was not going to come down until the morning - and at 3 she's still following the same routine. Even when we go to Australia on holiday to visit family, we keep her as close to the same schedule as possible (thankfully only 1 hour difference between Perth and here). As she got a bit older and could communicate more, she would let us know that "she wasn't ready to sleep", but I would still put her in her cot (sometimes with her crying) and within 10 minutes she would be soundly sleeping.

My husband and I get up early 5/5.30am (and have done so for as long as I can remember) so for her to wake up at that time is perfect for us. If we were late risers, her bedtime would be an hour or so later so that she would wake when we did - but she is still following a routine and getting the same number of hours sleep everynight which is so important for them. Getting them to follow a routine makes planning your own day AND NIGHT easier. For us, once the daughter is in bed - we can do the things that can't be done while she is awake and keeping us busy. It gives us down-time to relax and spend time together without interuptions, as well as making it easier to plan a night out or dinner. Knowing that our daughter will be asleep at a certain time, and would stay asleep while we were out is just a matter of organising a sitter to be at the house while we are out, plus we don't have to worry about if she is missing us, etc

Anyway, enough about that.... I just cannot see any reason for parents to even consider taking their young children out to a bar in the first place. If you want to do something as a family - either do something together during the day/late afternoon or have an early dinner at a restaurant BUT If you want to have a few drinks at a bar, organise a babysitter AND leave the children at home. No-one should drink and then drive especially with kids in the car

Additionally, a bar, whether it has prossies or not, is generally considered an adult venue. Therefore it's patrons could reasonably expect not to be entertained by a kid roaming around. Kids don't sit still. They run around, sometimes screaming, annoying everybody except the motherly types. Plus now the patrons have to watch themselves.

I have kids, I respect the fact that you would want your family to have a good time. Take them to a restaurant, not a bar. Please. Consider others as well. They have a right to escape from kids when going to a bar.

OlRedEyes, I totally agree with you !

Di

[The Dan Sai Kid]

As an exectant father I wanted to put in my ha'pence.

I hate my pregnant wife being near anyone smoking - whether inside or outside - and I'm sure I won't be changing my mind when our baby is born.

On the other hand, in LOS there is a very blurry line between restaurant and bar...

[Boo]

I do think there needs to be a clarification of what the op means by bar. When on holiday my niece is taken to outside resteraunt/bar places that have music (in europe/america) but in the UK no one would dream of taking her near a proper drinking pub. There are places that are family pubs with childrens gardens & dedicated family no smoking areas where her dad takes her sometimes in summer to have lunch as part of his visitation rights but there aren't places like this to my knowledge in LOS, so is a resteraunt that plays music cosidered a bar, even if there may be some freelancers in there or are we talking about "gogo" obvious drinking bars & nightclubs?

Big diff IMO. I too don't like being near smokers whilst preggersa & never smoked near my neice when I was a smoker & wont put my kid in an enclosed place where people are smoking but as my husband is a musician, I picture that on some occasions when he is older, our little one will be taken to a bar whilst on holiday in LOS to watch daddy play.

Like NR's example, it wont be every night but I dont see a problem on special occasions or the odd weekend night. But IMO it is up to the parent what they do & what they deem best for their kids.

[bkkmadness]

I understand a few people have said they wouldn't take their children to bars because they don't want their children being around alcohol.

Do you also extend this to the home and not drink in front of the children even at meal times etc?

[chanchao]

> No-one should drink and then drive especially with kids in the car

What, so drunk driving is more okay at other times!?

[Don't answer that, I'm doing a parody of Thaivisa discussion techniques :] ]

But indeed of course there wouldn't be any alcohol drinking when going to bars. Indeed drinking alcohol is not the main point of going to bars in Thailand anyway, at least not for me. Actually I make it a point to not even pick up, hold or otherwise handle or play with other people's kids if I drank any amount of alcohol, no matter if it's in a bar setting or not.

Thank you for your comments on getting kids on a fixed day/night schedule with an early bed time. I have to say though that with Dad at work, that leaves less quality time with Dad in the evening.. [Perhaps this too is part of a Western feminist conspiracy to get kids attached to Mum so it becomes easier to cut dad out should there be a parting of ways..! ]

Anyway, I guess for an earlier bed time / stricter day & night schedule you'd need to separate the kid from your own / other family member's activities, i.e. the kid would need to have their own individual room and be confined there while still being somewhat supervised. I guess that too isn't traditionally a Thai/Asian thing. (As active-infrared WiFi network cams aren't that widespread, though I'd probably go for one of those)

Edited March 28, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

I understand a few people have said they wouldn't take their children to bars because they don't want their children being around alcohol.

Do you also extend this to the home and not drink in front of the children even at meal times etc?

No. Also the issue is not so much with alcohol as a liquid substance involving carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, but rather with unknown strangers who may or may not have had too much of it and with unknown effects on their mental state.

[GuestHouse]

Chanchao beat me to it.

I understand a few people have said they wouldn't take their children to bars because they don't want their children being around alcohol.

Do you also extend this to the home and not drink in front of the children even at meal times etc?

No. Also the issue is not so much with alcohol as a liquid substance involving carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, but rather with unknown strangers who may or may not have had too much of it and with unknown effects on their mental state.

And if I can add to to what chan has said - behaviour, language and the whole idea of promoting drinking as 'grown up fun'. Well of course it is, but it's not one that I or my wife want to promote for our children, there are a lot more other things that we can enjoy as a family.

Importantly, alcohol may be enjoyed in very many different contexts other than in bars, part of family meals is the obvious and relavent example - The issue I see is controlling the experience of our children to ensure that they grow to appreciate alcohol in a more textured and broader sense.

[gummy]

Guesthouse,

Firstly don't get carried away, as your own importance is only limited by your own imagination.

Again you seem unable to answer the most simplistic of questions which I even took the trouble to provide an example to you. The topic was, and I repeat again, was "At what age would you take your children into a bar". Clearly to answer with out secondary diatribe is beyond your narrow minded imagination so thus I shall not be responding further to this post, albeit to say that I like others will find your automatic egotistic response to this last post on the one hand amusing, but on the other pitiful, owing to your own personal prejudices.

Does the the topic state parents with young kids ? or does it state just kids. Can you read simple English? The definition of kids is children. Like yourself I have children. Unlike yourself 2 have been brought up in Europe and 2 in Asia thus making me far more qualified than yourself to respond to this question with any degree of experience. But unlike yourself my 4 have all already attained significant academic achievement together with stable family relationships , most probably beyond what you could envisage for yourself even though they have been used to going to restaurents/bars both in Europe and Thailand, without detriment, since very very early ages. Again as the other thread on bringing up children in Thailand, to which you also had negative opinions , it explains that to provide good guidance as parents is of most importance as parents. To explain that in order to avoid any ambiguity on your part this means that parental guidance is of more consequence than physical environments attended. Understand that or is that too difficult to appreciate its meaning? It would appear that perhaps you are insecure in your ability to provide such guidance that your answer is not to expose them to bars and restaurents, or for that matter , what else in the real world? Come back in 20 years to tell us all what your children are doing please as the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Maybe allowing them to grow up in a protected and sheltered environment, without exposure to the real world is the better approach.

As for stalking you then I respectively suggest that you seek medical council owing to your obvious mental abberations because how often previously have you imagined people are stalking you ? Again the more cynical TV members will most probably laugh at that suggestion but I am aware that delusionary episodes should be treated seriously. I also trust that you bar your children from seeing any form of TV that may portray lewd or inappropriate behaviour and of course I'm sure you would never drink any form of alcohol in front of your children whilst at home. Oh by the way, read my previous posts in other topics if you have not already done so,so that you can steer clear of the bad areas of Rome where prostitution is paramount, unless of course you have already "sounded" those areas out yourself.

Now you just have a nice day now,

Di,

Where did the OP state times that children should or should not be taken in/out to bars ? Clearly any responsible parent would not wish his or her child to be deprived of appropriate rest. But tell me what is the problem of taking children out , as a family, to pub/restaurent/bar for Sunday lunch as many of the Thai population do as well as in the UK ?

Again it appears that a qualified and specific responses is negated by huge generalisations to attract a wider audience appeal.

Edited March 28, 2007 by gummy

[GuestHouse]

Guesthouse,

Firstly don't get carried away as your own importance is only limited by your own imagination.

Followed by a 400 word diatribe aimed at me

"Own Importance" - hel_l no, its an importance you bestow - Get over it... please....its for your own good I say that. This obsession of yours is not healthy.

Edited March 28, 2007 by GuestHouse

[November Rain]

OK, I'm waiting for the gasps of horror, but my son is 5 & I've taken him to bars since he was 3. His father was a musician who played in a rock band in a bar & I'd take him to see his Dad play. Now, his father's dead we (very occasionally) still go to see his dad's friends play. My son is a total rock music addict. His favourite songs are "We will rock you" and "Smoke on the water". I very rarely go out anymore (as can be seen by my post times on here), but if I do, I usually take him. To me, it's a connection to his father & if others think I'm wrong, I guess that's up to them.

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest. If we do go out for dinner and want to bring her along, we make sure we go out early so we're home no later than 9pm, where she usually crashes out in her stroller in the restaurant before we even start our meal...... and if we want a late night out, we organise a sitter to stay with her at home while she is sleeping.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

As for taking MY daughter out to a bar? Not a chance. First she is a minor and secondly, we wouldn't take her anywhere that has loud music (that you can't speak over), is dark, smokey and has the majority of people in it drinking alcohol or wasted (on drugs).

Isn't it illegal anyway to take children into any places that serve alcohol like bars, pubs, nightclubs, etc

Di

FYI, my son's bedtime is 7:30 pm on schooldays, 8pm when there is no school the next day. I don't think that going to see his Dad's friends play once every 2 or 3 months & staying up late (having had a nap to compensate during the day) and being able to sleep in the next morning is going to disrupt his sleep patterns too much. Oh, and on normal days (ie 89 days out of 90 - non music nights) he usually sleeps through to 6:30 or 7 the next morning, which by my calculations is a minimum of ten and a half to eleven hours sleep - uninterrupted, as you say. I think he's doing OK. But thank you for your concern about my son's sleeping habits. I'm glad that you have your life & your parenting sorted so well. It's obvious that you would never feel tempted to try & give your child(ren) some tangible reminder of their father. It must be nice to be perfect.

[sbk]

C'mon NR, be fair, you expected a reply like that so why get so upset? Everyone has their own beliefs about parenting and if you feel you are doing right by your child then what does someone else's opinion matter?

[endure]

There's a big all-you-can-eat-for-89baht near Hillside condo in CM. They have food, music, booze and kids and lots of customers. Seems to me that that would be an OK place to take your kids.

[November Rain]

C'mon NR, be fair, you expected a reply like that so why get so upset? Everyone has their own beliefs about parenting and if you feel you are doing right by your child then what does someone else's opinion matter?

Agreed, sbk, I did expect criticism. But I expected it for the alcohol/smoke/loud music reasons, not an attack on not letting my son sleep enough. When I took him in (at the age of 2) he'd been living in a house full of eccentric Thais. He wasn't eating solids (still on formula), slept anytime he fancied, wore diapers all the time etc etc etc. Since living with me his life has been very stable. Bedtimes, mealtimes, what he's allowed to do & what he isn't. I believe children need stability & need to know where they stand. He's an extremely mature, well-behaved, intelligent little boy who rarely pushes his boundaries, now. But boy, were there tantrums then...

As I said, I did expect criticism about the fact that we once in a blue moon visit a rock pub together. I did not expect it about something I didn't even mention in my post, something which IMO, is totally unfounded.

[bkkmadness]

It doesn't hurt to let a kid stay up late once in a blue moon.

[britmaveric]

It doesn't hurt to let a kid stay up late once in a blue moon.

Non school nite agreed.

[kratindaeng]

10-year-old 'allowed To Drive Locally'

well in response to this thread, I can have a bia or 12 and get the son to take me and the missus home safely from the bar!

55555555!

KD

[madjbs]

Guys there really isnt much point of listening to someone who thinks that every bar in Thailand has prosties in it. Sometimes the Thai way of dealing with things works well, just bite your lip and let them live on in ignorance. Unfortunatly GH me and alot of people used to respect your opinion but in this thread and a couple of others you have shown your true self. Not that I expect you to care.

Edited March 28, 2007 by madjbs

[MsFigure]

OK, I'm waiting for the gasps of horror, but my son is 5 & I've taken him to bars since he was 3. His father was a musician who played in a rock band in a bar & I'd take him to see his Dad play. Now, his father's dead we (very occasionally) still go to see his dad's friends play. My son is a total rock music addict. His favourite songs are "We will rock you" and "Smoke on the water". I very rarely go out anymore (as can be seen by my post times on here), but if I do, I usually take him. To me, it's a connection to his father & if others think I'm wrong, I guess that's up to them.

I'm only shocked because I'd expect a child that age to be tucked up and sleeping in bed after 8pm.

I always find it hard to see young children up and about late in the evenings, especially being brought out into town. My 3 year old daughter is ALWAYS in bed by 7pm at the latest. If we do go out for dinner and want to bring her along, we make sure we go out early so we're home no later than 9pm, where she usually crashes out in her stroller in the restaurant before we even start our meal...... and if we want a late night out, we organise a sitter to stay with her at home while she is sleeping.

I don't know, maybe my husband and I are the only ones that think that babies and young children need to follow a (sleeping) routine where they go to sleep & wake up the same time every morning which gives them a good 7/8 or 9 of hours of uninterrupted sleep every night.

As for taking MY daughter out to a bar? Not a chance. First she is a minor and secondly, we wouldn't take her anywhere that has loud music (that you can't speak over), is dark, smokey and has the majority of people in it drinking alcohol or wasted (on drugs).

Isn't it illegal anyway to take children into any places that serve alcohol like bars, pubs, nightclubs, etc

Di

FYI, my son's bedtime is 7:30 pm on schooldays, 8pm when there is no school the next day. I don't think that going to see his Dad's friends play once every 2 or 3 months & staying up late (having had a nap to compensate during the day) and being able to sleep in the next morning is going to disrupt his sleep patterns too much. Oh, and on normal days (ie 89 days out of 90 - non music nights) he usually sleeps through to 6:30 or 7 the next morning, which by my calculations is a minimum of ten and a half to eleven hours sleep - uninterrupted, as you say. I think he's doing OK. But thank you for your concern about my son's sleeping habits. I'm glad that you have your life & your parenting sorted so well. It's obvious that you would never feel tempted to try & give your child(ren) some tangible reminder of their father. It must be nice to be perfect.

My post was not an attack on you or your parenting - I was merely stating my shock that a child - any child - of that age is not in bed at an appropiate time, and that they were in a bar with a rock band playing instead, where it is most likely not an environment (excessively loud music, smokey, drunks, etc) suitable for children.

Di,

Where did the OP state times that children should or should not be taken in/out to bars ? Clearly any responsible parent would not wish his or her child to be deprived of appropriate rest. But tell me what is the problem of taking children out , as a family, to pub/restaurent/bar for Sunday lunch as many of the Thai population do as well as in the UK ?

Again it appears that a qualified and specific responses is negated by huge generalisations to attract a wider audience appeal.

Nothing wrong with taking children to those places for sunday lunch. If you do decide to go out in the evening and the place it is not smoky, has music that you can talk over and be heard (that is without the need to shout) and have people there with main purpose of eating a meal while having a few drinks to wash it all down - I don't see any problem with it. One of the bad elements that you try to protect your children from and avoid are usually still in bed recovering from the after effects of all the alcohol they consumed the night before, and one that won't venture out again to their favourite watering hole until after dark and much later in the evening.

It is when children are kept up too late at night to accompany their parents to a bar/pub that has excessively loud music, is smokey, and has the majority of people there drinking (and not eating) and go there to drink, that I think isn't right.

Di

[swanks]

Firstly not every bar has prostitutes, I took my son into a bar/pub today. Hes 5 months, also took him there when he was 2 months. Ill have a beer and he'll have his milk or a nap whilst his mum is out shopping. As long as its not smokey or too noisy I dont think there is anything wrong with it. As a child I was in a pub with my dad once or twice a week from a very early age.

I think the same Jared, and indeed sat quit happily outside Sally bar in jomtien last week with my 6 month old on my knee.

I was only there for half an hour as my wife did some shopping and I didn't want to sit in the car ( OK he didn't !) but I saw no harm in it .

It was quit funny as some have you have realised I don't do PC and I can be a bit blunt , but I saw no harm at all when the little fella did his usual smile, gurgle and hold his hands up to a member of staff.

It just happened to be to a kattoy in full fig though !

They rather hit it off really and the kattoy got all broody and mumsy with him.

As a general rule I don't like kids in pubs though , especially in the evenings although I don't frequent the type of places where unruly behavior is tolerated .

I actually think people need a break from the kids and some time to themselves .

[pedro01]

Firstly not every bar has prositutes, I took my son into a bar/pub today. Hes 5 months, also took him there when he was 2 months. Ill have a beer and he'll have his milk or a nap whilst his mum is out shopping. Aslong as its not smokey or too noisey I dont think there is anything wrong with it. As a child I was in a pub with my dad once or twice a week from a very early age.

1. What bar was that that does not have prostitutes?

2. I think you've supplied the evidence that taking children into bars from an early age does infact adversely effect their judgement with respect to bars.

In Bangkok, I take my son to The Barbican - the staff love him there (me too) and The Bulls Head - they love him there but he loves the juke box more. These places I take him to at lunchtime on Saturday mostly where he will usually polish off an adult sized plate of Spaghetti Bolognase. If in Pattaya - Shenanigans is good - he likes both the breakfast & lunch there. Sometimes we go for an early dinner too. He's almost 5 now, we've been doing this since he was 0.

As far as I know, the girls working there are not prostitutes. I would ask them but I am fairly sure that I would get thrown out if I did.

You should look around a bit - it's not all Nana Plaza here, you know.

[chanchao]

> In Bangkok, I take my son to The Barbican - the staff love him there (me too) and The Bulls

> Head - they love him there but he loves the juke box more.

Ah, yes, that's one thing I defnitely do, take my daughter to places where there's lots of friendly staff to keep her entertained so the Mrs and myself actually have a fighting chance of diverting some attention to the food.

The Queen Victoria Inn is such a place, very clean, lots of nice staff and the wife of the owner recently had a baby boy herself. She's lovely too. (And good Brit food in big portions)

[stiggy]

A regular pub or bar is generally an escape for Adults.

Drinking, smoking,telling jokes etec etc No offense but having some one elses kid running around or shouting etc is not on. many a quiet night out with the missus has been ruined by some one elses genes running around causing havoc.

There are excxeptions i feel ,such as so called family pubs with large garden etc,I would have no problems taking the kids there in the daytime.Green man in Phuket is a good example.

To answear the OP I feel 13-15yrs old is sufficent provided there is an area to sit with them and seperate from other adults that do not wish to have kids around.

As for these people that I have seen in bar areas full of bar girls with kids not acceptable,Last time I had a boys night out there was a scandinavian kid about 12 i guess playing connect 4 with a group of prostitutes whilst dad got so pissed he fell of the chair....

[chanchao]

> Last time I had a boys night out there was a scandinavian kid about 12 i guess playing connect 4 with a

> group of prostitutes whilst dad got so pissed he fell of the chair.

Right, that's one thing I most certainly wouldn't do. (At 12 years of age I'd make sure to have age-appropriate educational games available. )