UK government and military accused of war crimes cover-up

[rooster59]

UK government and military accused of war crimes cover-up

 

 

The UK government and armed forces have been accused of covering up the killing of civilians by British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

An investigation by BBC Panorama and the Sunday Times has spoken to 11 British detectives who said they found credible evidence of war crimes.

 

Soldiers should have been prosecuted for the killings, say insiders.

 

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said it rejected the unsubstantiated allegation of a pattern of cover-ups.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50419297

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2019-11-17

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[ivor bigun]

Thank you boys for all you have done in keeping us safe ,as for the detectives ,go f yourselves

[Orton Rd]

Killing the enemy of all your country and culture stands for is not a war crime

[RuamRudy]

27 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Killing the enemy of all your country and culture stands for is not a war crime

In what way did Baha Mousa threaten me, my country or my culture? Why would I consider a hotel receptionist to be my enemy?

 

Death of Baha Mousa

On 14 September 2003, Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist, was arrested along with six other men and taken to a British base. While in detention, Mousa and the other captives were hooded, severely beaten and assaulted by a number of British troops. Two days later, Mousa was found dead. A post-mortem examination found that Mousa suffered at least 93 injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death.

Edited November 17, 2019 by blackcab
Font normalised

[baansgr]

Blair and Cameron are the only ones that need prosecuting...and hanging should be the only verdict

[evadgib]

Panorama/the BBC have nothing but contempt for veterans.

[pegman]

Any justice in this world Bush, Chaney, Rummy & Blair would  have been prosecuted long ago. 

[Moonlover]

33 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Killing the enemy of all your country and culture stands for is not a war crime

Killing the enemy (the definition being the armed forces a hostile nation) is not a war crime.

 

Killing innocent civilians of a country that is perceived as your enemy IS a war crime. I say 'perceived' because Iraq was not a hostile country to the UK and we were not at war with them.

 

 

[Orton Rd]

Their ideology makes them the enemy, probably never been a war without civilian casualties. The enemy would not even make the distinction

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Their ideology makes them the enemy, probably never been a war without civilian casualties. The enemy would not even make the distinction

 

Casualties makes them sound like people accidentally caught in crossfire, rather than people deliberately taken off the streets by heavily armed men in combat gear, and tortured to death over a number of days for no reason other than they are a different colour.

 

As for ideology, how do you know what Mousa's 'ideology' was? He was a hotel receptionist, for gods sake,  a simple man trying to survive ans support his family in very difficult circumstances, none of which were of his making. He wasn't collateral damage - he was brutally tortured and murdered by British scum.

[vogie]

Those people that can't back their armed forces should stand in front of them in times of conflict.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Those people that can't back their armed forces should stand in front of them in times of conflict.

I would suggest that comments like yours do a disservice to the vast majority of our forces who are honourable, noble and decent, and equally as outraged at the actions of the few bad apples. 

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I would suggest that comments like yours do a disservice to the vast majority of our forces who are honourable, noble and decent, and equally as outraged at the actions of the few bad apples. 

Have you served?

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Have you served?

No

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Their ideology makes them the enemy, probably never been a war without civilian casualties. The enemy would not even make the distinction

‘Their ideology’ you say.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Those people that can't back their armed forces should stand in front of them in times of conflict.

 

54 minutes ago, vogie said:

Have you served?

I'll step in here. I have served. 24 years worth. And I have a couple of medals, one of which was for 'Desert Storm'. 

 

And I fully endorse the earlier comment by @RuamRudy Your comment is a disgraceful insult to the vast majority of the UK's armed forces, both serving and veterans.

[AverageBloke]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

Their ideology makes them the enemy, probably never been a war without civilian casualties. The enemy would not even make the distinction

So that makes it right? 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

 

I'll step in here. I have served. 24 years worth. And I have a couple of medals, one of which was for 'Desert Storm'. 

 

And I fully endorse the earlier comment by @RuamRudy Your comment is a disgraceful insult to the vast majority of the UK's armed forces, both serving and veterans.

And I served too in Healys secret war in Oman, saw my brethren blown to bits, I am sick to death of our armed forces being dragged through the mire by lawyers who think they can make a quick buck by some jumped up charges and accusations 40 or more years after the event, it's totally shamefull.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

Any justice in this world Bush, Chaney, Rummy & Blair would  have been prosecuted long ago. 

+ Powell & Campbell.

[evadgib]

28 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

I'll step in here. I have served. 24 years worth. And I have a couple of medals, one of which was for 'Desert Storm'. 

 

And I fully endorse the earlier comment by @RuamRudy Your comment is a disgraceful insult to the vast majority of the UK's armed forces, both serving and veterans.

How about the current witch hunt into the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971 which in the last month saw a terminally ill former paratrooper wheeled into court in a very confused state?

When can we expect same in t'other direction for the likes of Adams or the scroat given immunity re Hyde Park?

Edited November 17, 2019 by evadgib

[Barry343]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In what way did Baha Mousa threaten me, my country or my culture? Why would I consider a hotel receptionist to be my enemy?

 

Death of Baha Mousa

On 14 September 2003, Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist, was arrested along with six other men and taken to a British base. While in detention, Mousa and the other captives were hooded, severely beaten and assaulted by a number of British troops. Two days later, Mousa was found dead. A post-mortem examination found that Mousa suffered at least 93 injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death.

 Fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death. I must be very lucky to be alive as in the past I have suffered those terrible fractures and breaks on top of that I broke a nail. 55555  

[rbmcn]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

Blair and Cameron are the only ones that need prosecuting...and hanging should be the only verdict

Hanging is a bit too civilized for Blair!

[Sujo]

23 minutes ago, Barry343 said:

 Fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death. I must be very lucky to be alive as in the past I have suffered those terrible fractures and breaks on top of that I broke a nail. 55555  

But it didnt cause your death like him. And it was 93 injuries.

 

Where your injuries from being kidnapped and tortured?

 

Perhaps you should alert the authorities to your expertise.

[Sujo]

57 minutes ago, vogie said:

And I served too in Healys secret war in Oman, saw my brethren blown to bits, I am sick to death of our armed forces being dragged through the mire by lawyers who think they can make a quick buck by some jumped up charges and accusations 40 or more years after the event, it's totally shamefull.

Not your armed forces. Just the criminal ones who give the good ones a bad name.

 

Surely you would like your good name for serving preserved. If not, then dont complain if you get lumped in with the criminals.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I would suggest that comments like yours do a disservice to the vast majority of our forces who are honourable, noble and decent, and equally as outraged at the actions of the few bad apples. 

I'm ex armed forces and can assure you that what happens on active service cannot be judged by a group of civilians away from the theatre of conflict. It's too easy to look at things in the comfort of your armchair, especially by those who've never taken arms in the service of their country. Active duty is lots of boredom broken up with periods of intense action which requires split second decisions which no amount of training can prepare you for. Those who've never served on active duty should refrain from commenting on something they know nothing about. Battle indidents should not be judged by civilian standards, they're chalk and cheese. If anyone asked my advice about volunteering for military service these days, I'd strongly advise them against it. It's difficult enough trying to protect yourself against the enemy without your own people, who you're attempting to protect, trying to stab you in the back.

[Rimmer]

An off topic baiting post has been removed

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Not your armed forces. Just the criminal ones who give the good ones a bad name.

 

Surely you would like your good name for serving preserved. If not, then dont complain if you get lumped in with the criminals.

Remember Paul Shiner the dishonest lawyer who spent £30 million of public monies investigating erroneous claims that Iraqis had been tortured by British Troops, when in reality he was paying his contacts to find Iraqis willing to lie so he could line his own pockets, well he got struck off in 2017.

And Piers Morgan staging mock interrigation of Iraqis to again darken the integrity of our armed forces, the good old media strikes again.

In wars incidents that perhaps shouldn't happen, do happen. But the constant needlessly persecution of our armed forces by people willing to lie to make money off the backs of our military needs to come to an end immediately.

[RuamRudy]

14 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I'm ex armed forces and can assure you that what happens on active service cannot be judged by a group of civilians away from the theatre of conflict. It's too easy to look at things in the comfort of your armchair, especially by those who've never taken arms in the service of their country. Active duty is lots of boredom broken up with periods of intense action which requires split second decisions which no amount of training can prepare you for. Those who've never served on active duty should refrain from commenting on something they know nothing about. Battle indidents should not be judged by civilian standards, they're chalk and cheese. If anyone asked my advice about volunteering for military service these days, I'd strongly advise them against it. It's difficult enough trying to protect yourself against the enemy without your own people, who you're attempting to protect, trying to stab you in the back.

I don't doubt anything you say about the terrors, stresses and dislocation from reality that the armed forces must face in combat circumstances and I make no attempt to suggest that I have come close to experiencing that, but the instances in question are not the result of split second calls which had tragic, unintended consequences. These were premeditated, protracted acts of violence against individuals who had no cause to be caught up in them. 

 

I believe (and I desperately want to continue to believe) that the vast majority of our armed forces personnel are as revulsed as I am about these isolated incidents. However this circling of the wagons and declaring that no civilian has the right to question the actions of any armed forces personnel only makes you look as if you condone them. 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And I served too in Healys secret war in Oman, saw my brethren blown to bits, I am sick to death of our armed forces being dragged through the mire by lawyers who think they can make a quick buck by some jumped up charges and accusations 40 or more years after the event, it's totally shamefull.

 

so why the heck don't you just stay in the UK then if you cannot behave in line with law and order

when you are outside UK?

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

so why the heck don't you just stay in the UK then if you cannot behave in line with law and order

when you are outside UK?

 

This topic is not about me!