UK government and military accused of war crimes cover-up

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Killing the enemy of all your country and culture stands for is not a war crime

 

jeez,

you have sunk quite deep haven't you, the UK?

 

beginning to think that EU would be way better off without you . . .

 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

This topic is not about me!

 

quite right you are, it isn't

and the term you, as well as my comment, has a coverage wider than just you personally

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

quite right you are, it isn't

and the term you, as well as my comment, has a coverage wider than just you personally

You are still off topic!

[transam]

33 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Nothing new to know all knew that US and UK troops slaughter and tortured thousands of innocents.
It's the so called "western democracy".

I guess you are not German Axis or Japanese then....?

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't doubt anything you say about the terrors, stresses and dislocation from reality that the armed forces must face in combat circumstances and I make no attempt to suggest that I have come close to experiencing that, but the instances in question are not the result of split second calls which had tragic, unintended consequences. These were premeditated, protracted acts of violence against individuals who had no cause to be caught up in them. 

 

I believe (and I desperately want to continue to believe) that the vast majority of our armed forces personnel are as revulsed as I am about these isolated incidents. However this circling of the wagons and declaring that no civilian has the right to question the actions of any armed forces personnel only makes you look as if you condone them. 

There are times when those civilians need to take their blinkers off RR.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

There are times when those civilians need to take their blinkers off RR.

Surely you mean avert our eyes?

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

Thank you boys for all you have done in keeping us safe ,as for the detectives ,go f yourselves

Really? 

What have they done so special in Iraq? Invading a country side by side with notorious US Liars showing fake photos? 

And left a devastated country paving the way for IS? 

"f" your government! But not the detectives who detected the crimes. Of course the soldiers have to be prosecuted if they are guilty. ????

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Really? 

What have they done so special in Iraq? Invading a country side by side with notorious US Liars showing fake photos? 

And left a devastated country paving the way for IS? 

"f" your government! But not the detectives who detected the crimes. Of course the soldiers have to be prosecuted if they are guilty. ????

"Of course the soldiers have to be prosecuted if they are guilty"

 

But not the likes of Martin McGuiness I'm guessing?

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Surely you mean avert our eyes?

No, I was right the first time.

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No, I was right the first time.

Then please enlighten me. Why am I wrong to think that the British soldiers implicated in the death of Baha Mousa should be held to account? Why is it blinkered of me to feel dissatisfied at their being free to walk the streets of Britain?

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

The please enlighten me. Why am I wrong to think that the British soldiers implicated in the death of Baha Mousa should be held to account? Why is it blinkered of me to feel dissatisfied at their being free to walk the streets of Britain?

I cannot possibly reply to that as i know nothing about it other than what's in the public domain.

[sawadee1947]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

"Of course the soldiers have to be prosecuted if they are guilty"

 

But not the likes of Martin McGuiness I'm guessing?

Nobody stands above the law in our countries 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

There are times when those civilians need to take their blinkers off RR.

Which civilians are you referring to, the civilians tortured and murdered by members of HM Armed Forces?

 

Or are you less bothered about civilians being tortured and murdered by HM Armed Forces and more offended by civilians who object to these crimes?

[puipuitom]

Translated from a Dutch poem:

 

We turn to God and Johnny Soldier, 
...as great distress and bitt're battle awaits us. 
The need over, the country in peace state, 
Forgotten is the Lord, and Johnny Soldier despised!

I serve the Fatherland and go to war,
I'm doing my duty there in that distant land.
It is certainly not a piece of cake for me,
but my profession also has its downside.

The House of Representatives is filled with chitchat,
but who's gonna bury me if I get killed over there?
Civilians know years later always better than in my split second 
But when it goes wrong somewhere, we have to go there

Poorly armed, every soldier knows
that the DA's office always knows better how things are going.
After months from behind the desk and safely
Is THEIR judgment on us always sacred?

[Scot123]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Casualties makes them sound like people accidentally caught in crossfire, rather than people deliberately taken off the streets by heavily armed men in combat gear, and tortured to death over a number of days for no reason other than they are a different colour.

 

As for ideology, how do you know what Mousa's 'ideology' was? He was a hotel receptionist, for gods sake,  a simple man trying to survive ans support his family in very difficult circumstances, none of which were of his making. He wasn't collateral damage - he was brutally tortured and murdered by British scum.

Your twisted bitterness towards the UK is well noted. British military DO NOT COVER UP and if you had served you would know that. In fact in the British Army you get done twice if you break once if you break a civil law and found guilty and then in the army for bringing the army into disrepute. Panarama is scum and were caught dam to rights for coercing people to make false statements and lying in an under cover sting. We in the UK have a court of law which is above military law so soldiers are not protected that commit civil crimes if anything they are persecuted as umbrella's get put up. With everything there are 2 sides and if there was a crime the cid would be all over it (a career making investigation for a MP's CID officer). So with all evidence laid out if crimes were committed they will be procecuted and that's a fact jack! Guilty by headline. Get a new hobby. 

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, Scot123 said:

Your twisted bitterness towards the UK is well noted. British military DO NOT COVER UP and if you had served you would know that. In fact in the British Army you get done twice if you break once if you break a civil law and found guilty and then in the army for bringing the army into disrepute. Panarama is scum and were caught dam to rights for coercing people to make false statements and lying in an under cover sting. We in the UK have a court of law which is above military law so soldiers are not protected that commit civil crimes if anything they are persecuted as umbrella's get put up. With everything there are 2 sides and if there was a crime the cid would be all over it (a career making investigation for a MP's CID officer). So with all evidence laid out if crimes were committed they will be procecuted and that's a fact jack! Guilty by headline. Get a new hobby. 

 

In all the frenzied analysis of what is alleged to have happened, to the best of my knowledge nobody has been able to demonstrate why Mousa was a threat that needed to be eliminated. The facts which are clear, however, are that a civilian was taken from the streets to a British army base where he was held for 2 days. In those 2 days he received significant injuries from which he subsequently died. Is that something you are comfortable to brush over and forget about?

 

You see, this is where I am struggling to comprehend. I cannot see why you anyone would feel that they defend the people who commit these crimes. They stain the reputation of their units and they stain the reputation of the British military in general, never mind the damage their actions do on the ground.

 

As I said in a previous comment, this was not a case of a split second response to a situation that had tragic and unintended consequences. This was cold sadistic, cold blooded murder. 

[Salerno]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The facts which are clear, however, are that a civilian was taken from the streets to a British army base where he was held for 2 days. In those 2 days he received significant injuries from which he subsequently died. Is that something you are comfortable to brush over and forget about?

There was a court case, one soldier got jailed for a year and kicked out of the army. Where's the "brushing over and forgetting about"?

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

There was a court case, one soldier got jailed for a year and kicked out of the army. Where's the "brushing over and forgetting about"?

In terms of justice, I think the verdict and sentence fell somewhat short of what would be normally considered reasonable, given the magnitude of the crime committed. The judge himself remarked, "none of those soldiers has been charged with any offence, simply because there is no evidence against them as a result of a more or less obvious closing of ranks.". To me, that doesn't sound like justice was served.

 

 

[Salerno]

So, no brushing it under the rug and forgetting about it, you just don't like the result. No worries. As it happens, in this case, I 100% agree with you.

[shy coconut]

13 hours ago, vogie said:

"Of course the soldiers have to be prosecuted if they are guilty"

 

But not the likes of Martin McGuiness I'm guessing?

Maybe they can dig him up and put him Infront of a judge

[sunnyboy2018]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In what way did Baha Mousa threaten me, my country or my culture? Why would I consider a hotel receptionist to be my enemy?

 

Death of Baha Mousa

On 14 September 2003, Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist, was arrested along with six other men and taken to a British base. While in detention, Mousa and the other captives were hooded, severely beaten and assaulted by a number of British troops. Two days later, Mousa was found dead. A post-mortem examination found that Mousa suffered at least 93 injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death.

This report is not true. Anyway, Arab terrorists do have 'day jobs'. Why should children be murdered by Muslim terrorists because our security forces are hampered and restricted by fear of making a mistake but the murders are not hampered. Both the manchester mass killing of kids and the london bridge bomber were known to the security forces but they were not allowed to gather sufficient evidence to arrest them.

[sunnyboy2018]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In terms of justice, I think the verdict and sentence fell somewhat short of what would be normally considered reasonable, given the magnitude of the crime committed. The judge himself remarked, "none of those soldiers has been charged with any offence, simply because there is no evidence against them as a result of a more or less obvious closing of ranks.". To me, that doesn't sound like justice was served.

 

 

There was no crime proved. Now let the BBC make 10 documentaries about muslim grooming gangs, FGM, murder knife and gang culture and the whole curse that I***m has brought to us. Im sick of the tax funded BBC and biased output.

[steve187]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In what way did Baha Mousa threaten me, my country or my culture? Why would I consider a hotel receptionist to be my enemy?

 

Death of Baha Mousa

On 14 September 2003, Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist, was arrested along with six other men and taken to a British base. While in detention, Mousa and the other captives were hooded, severely beaten and assaulted by a number of British troops. Two days later, Mousa was found dead. A post-mortem examination found that Mousa suffered at least 93 injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken nose, which were in part the cause of his death.

war is war, if there should have been a war is something that should have been dealt with by an inquiry, no good blaming the tools( soldiers) when the going gets tough, when there are no rules being followed by the opposing fractions

[Benmart]

22 hours ago, baansgr said:

Blair and Cameron are the only ones that need prosecuting...and hanging should be the only verdict

Seems you left out the "trial" part of your comment. I am happy to have never served with you in the armed forces or law enforcement. By the way, I believe the death sentence in the UK was abolished years ago.

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Seems you left out the "trial" part of your comment. I am happy to have never served with you in the armed forces or law enforcement. By the way, I believe the death sentence in the UK was abolished years ago.

Blair has had his "trial" it was called the 'The Chilcott Report', it makes damning reading for Blair, the thing that it omits is that Blair was responsible for 1.5 million deaths in Iraq, many of those were British service men. Blair has openly admitted it was a mistake as Iraq posed no threat to the UK, he was sheepishly following G W Bush.

And lastly I wouldn't take everything that people say too literally, I often say "I could eat an elephant between two bread vans" I am not being literal only emphasising my hunger.

[Salerno]

7 hours ago, Benmart said:

By the way, I believe the death sentence in the UK was abolished years ago.

Sadly 

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Sadly 

I would welcome it's return too but it would be political suicide for whoever tried bringing it back.

[Salerno]

7 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I would welcome it's return too but it would be political suicide for whoever tried bringing it back.

I have no issue with a death penalty whatsoever but, and it's a fairly huge but, only in cases where it is 100% without doubt that the person is guilty (and yes, before people jump in, there are cases where there is no doubt ... regardless of mental health issues). Therefore, wouldn't be that many.

[chickenslegs]

15 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I would welcome it's return too but it would be political suicide for whoever tried bringing it back.

Maybe there should be a referendum.

 

Nooooooo!

[evadgib]

Ministry of Defence response to allegations relating to the conduct of UK forces in Iraq and Afghanistan