**What (Thai) investments would you recommend**

[side]

23 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Use your hard earned investment money to purchase a one way ticket to a country that actually appreciates foreigners participation in the economy and rewards them accordingly.  ????

I've been fully appreciated to date and have been rewarded accordingly. It's my home and for me, the positives totally outweigh the negatives. I have a very good life and I'm happy.

 

So, having said that, back to the real point of the thread. Cool with you?

[Puchaiyank]

5 hours ago, side said:

I've been fully appreciated to date and have been rewarded accordingly. It's my home and for me, the positives totally outweigh the negatives. I have a very good life and I'm happy.

 

So, having said that, back to the real point of the thread. Cool with you?

I'm happy for you...if you like living in an unrealistic bubble...it is your business...????

 

Be sure and report back when you awaken from your slumber...or the bubble bursts unexpectedly of course...????

[Tayaout]

You are not taxed on foreign income if you bring it to Thailand the next year. It's better to invest your money in a country with no or lower tax than Thailand. 

 

Here is a book for you: https://www.amazon.com/Nomad-Capitalist-Citizenship-Companies-Investments-ebook/dp/B07C2QK2ML

Edited November 24, 2019 by Tayaout

[oceanbreeze851]

I am really interested in this topic as my wife may need  some income after I'm gone. I do not appreciate the comment by Puchaiyank. He appears to be against anything Thailand. Opinionsare like a**hole*, everyone has one.

[saengd]

50 minutes ago, oceanbreeze851 said:

I am really interested in this topic as my wife may need  some income after I'm gone. I do not appreciate the comment by Puchaiyank. He appears to be against anything Thailand. Opinionsare like a**hole*, everyone has one.

I'll email you the link I sent to the OP, given what you're looking for you may find it helpful.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, oceanbreeze851 said:

I am really interested in this topic as my wife may need  some income after I'm gone. I do not appreciate the comment by Puchaiyank. He appears to be against anything Thailand. Opinionsare like a**hole*, everyone has one.

Hes a loser. Plenty on this forum.

[side]

Let me point out again, I have the majority of my funds elsewhere, BUT I have an amount sitting in Thailand which I feel could be invested wisely, directly here, and am looking around for ideas, advice.

 

This is NOT about buying a business. I'm not going to buy a bar ????, I am talking here about actual investments (stocks, bonds, ETFs and similar instruments). It does appear at first sight that fees are higher than elsewhere, as one or two people on here have already pointed out.

 

@saengd pointed me in the direction of some very useful info so anyone with a serious interest should maybe have a PM convo with him too.

 

[Brickbat]

I recently saw Kasikorn bank and CIMB have REIT’s that have risen annually around 18% pa for the last 4 years. And just 1000 thb minimum to start. Beaten Aussie REITS ! ANd would have gained on the Baht ( which I foresee falling or the economy here tanks more when the inevitable correction takes place . 

[tpkhk]

@side

 

Would recommend you open a Thai Brokerage account.  Bualuang in Silom has English speaking staff.  If you dont end up funding, or trading there are no charges anyway.  No minimums too.  Except if you trade, 100 share minimum for better liquidity.  Generally speaking, this has not been a good year for Thai stocks.... 

 

There are some small quirks - ie shares held by foreigners have to be of a certain type - you choose when you purchase or send in paperwork after buying (for conversion).  Liquidity is the same as the general market.  If you are a taxpayer here, there is some dividends witholding that can be clawed back.  None of this should be a show stopper.

 

Couple of resources for you if you are inclined to invest in individual stocks

https://thaistocks.com/content/thai-broker-review - Plenty of resources in the free section, I havent subscribed.

https://www.jitta.com/explore?country[0]=TH - This site offers a lot of info on individual Thai stocks (covers other markets too).

 

On the Internet from time to time - DBS Vickers/Maybank put out some good research.  Local brokerages seem to put out +ve research for the most part.. so take that with a pinch of salt.

 

If you are interested in Capital Preservation for the most part with dividends, then look at infrastructure funds - JASIF, BTSGIF, DIF and so on.  Also local REITS.

 

As for if this is a good time, risk - here's an example of A list companies - depending on when you bought, lot of pain/joy.

 

PTTGC (one of the many listed arms of PTT) - this year - high of 81, low of 48 and currently at around 54.  

SCC - high of 490, low of 351, and currently at 390.  

 

If all this is too much - research the mutual fund type trusts that the banks have been selling - those can be bought at the bank, and there's probably a lot of internet research available if you get the ticker symbol.  Good luck.

Edited November 26, 2019 by tpkhk

[rwill]

The only investing I would do in Thailand is a fixed account or CD.

 

I opened a Charles Schwab International account.  The only minuses to it are you have to have $25,000 US dollars to open it and lots of paperwork to fill out for applying.

Normal broker transactions are fee free now.  Buy and sell stocks, etfs, reits at will without worrying about fees lowering your returns.

The Charles Schwab Debit card is one of the best, if not the best available.  You don't get it automatically by opening an account.  Tell them you want one and a simple form to fill out.  But you can use it at ATM's world wide with no fee, no foreign transaction charge, plus they rebate most fees charged by the ATM bank, like the 220 baht fee for Thai banks, unlimited.  The one thing a little weird about it is you can withdraw $1,000 per day but only $500 per transaction.  So to get $1000 you have to do 2 withdrawals.  But hey you get the fees back and Visa exchange rate which is pretty close to the mid range you see when you look up exchange rates.

Also you can do international wires with them for a $25 fee.

[garymutchell1987]

On 11/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, saengd said:

I'll email you the link I sent to the OP, given what you're looking for you may find it helpful.

I would interested in this link as well if you are happy to share

[malathione]

You could take a look at Morningstar Thailand. Personally, I haven't but I do know Thailand has its own dedicated Morningstar site.

[saengd]

7 minutes ago, malathione said:

You could take a look at Morningstar Thailand. Personally, I haven't but I do know Thailand has its own dedicated Morningstar site.

https://www.morningstarthailand.com/th/?lang=en-TH

[johnnysunshine]

GOLD - Perfect for when the global currency shift happens and most (unbacked) currencies are worthless!

[khunPer]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:51 AM, side said:

What has served you well so far? Obviously I could throw it at a selection of leading Thai companies but I'm keen on hearing from people who've worked some investments successfully here, ie gather some opinions first.

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions!

What have serve me well so far...

 

A bit in low risk mutual funds, the so-called LTF that have had tax-benefits, average long term yearly dividends little over 3 percent, and average long term value increase higher than the average inflation rate, so a small gain on top of dividends.

 

SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) where I have hand-picked some few companies (as Buffet says, never more than 10 in your portfolio) based on statistic facts of P/E, P/BV, historical performance, some company insight, and feelings – the last is import, I have to believe in the company's future ability to grow.

 

Average dividend payout after 10 percent withholding tax is higher than 3 percent – due to my mix of value increasing stocks, some SET-listed companies pays around 6 percent in annual dividend – and an average increase of stock value at between 6 and 7 percent per year (dividend not included). Single shares can increase 50 percent, or double in value, in a few years (I talk from experience).

 

I mainly pick NVDR shares – easy available for foreigners with a pre-set "no voting right"-lot – but I have one non-NVDR as well, which however require some paperwork for being registered shareholder and eligible for dividend (high payouts, that why I chose it).

 

In general I found the SET equally good as my home-country stock market, and the stocks I have on US-market. The major benefit is that I get the dividend in Thai baht, and I don't need to think of present currency exchange rate, and that the dividend withholding tax is 10 percent only (you don't need to do anything more, if you accept the withheld tax). There is furthermore no capital gain tax on SET stocks.

 

In the more difficult end to invest is land, but that can also be good – especially chanote title deed empty land, or farm land – but that require a Thai company limited, and all the aspects about investing in a company as a foreigner, and not loosing out. Farm land has been good capital gain, paying similar to a long-term fixed bank interest rate in annual fees, and double-up in value – or more than double-up – in an eight to ten year time-frame. I've also used farm land for my child-saving, which is easy, as a minor Thai can own land...????

[Kurtf]

The Thai economy isn't on solid footing in my humble opinion. So for an investment I would recommend 10 baht gold bars. 

[Autonuaq]

Of you plan to stay and die in thailand then you can invest in thialand only the thai bath is strong and not sure if that will keep this way.

 

Inverst in thailand to live in thailand isomey to keep local.

 

When you plan to move later or are not sure. Then never invest in thailand because many companie move out and when youdo you are to late and lose a lot of money due to hte exchange rate as well you do this then you are to late

 

In this case investe around the globe and none to just max 5% in thailand

[side]

9 hours ago, tpkhk said:

@side

 

Would recommend you open a Thai Brokerage account.  Bualuang in Silom has English speaking staff.  If you dont end up funding, or trading there are no charges anyway.  No minimums too.  Except if you trade, 100 share minimum for better liquidity.  Generally speaking, this has not been a good year for Thai stocks.... 

 

There are some small quirks - ie shares held by foreigners have to be of a certain type - you choose when you purchase or send in paperwork after buying (for conversion).  Liquidity is the same as the general market.  If you are a taxpayer here, there is some dividends witholding that can be clawed back.  None of this should be a show stopper.

 

Couple of resources for you if you are inclined to invest in individual stocks

https://thaistocks.com/content/thai-broker-review - Plenty of resources in the free section, I havent subscribed.

https://www.jitta.com/explore?country[0]=TH - This site offers a lot of info on individual Thai stocks (covers other markets too).

 

On the Internet from time to time - DBS Vickers/Maybank put out some good research.  Local brokerages seem to put out +ve research for the most part.. so take that with a pinch of salt.

 

If you are interested in Capital Preservation for the most part with dividends, then look at infrastructure funds - JASIF, BTSGIF, DIF and so on.  Also local REITS.

 

As for if this is a good time, risk - here's an example of A list companies - depending on when you bought, lot of pain/joy.

 

PTTGC (one of the many listed arms of PTT) - this year - high of 81, low of 48 and currently at around 54.  

SCC - high of 490, low of 351, and currently at 390.  

 

If all this is too much - research the mutual fund type trusts that the banks have been selling - those can be bought at the bank, and there's probably a lot of internet research available if you get the ticker symbol.  Good luck.

Very helpful and will follow up a few of your points on here, great post!

[side]

9 hours ago, rwill said:

The only investing I would do in Thailand is a fixed account or CD.

 

I opened a Charles Schwab International account.  The only minuses to it are you have to have $25,000 US dollars to open it and lots of paperwork to fill out for applying.

Normal broker transactions are fee free now.  Buy and sell stocks, etfs, reits at will without worrying about fees lowering your returns.

The Charles Schwab Debit card is one of the best, if not the best available.  You don't get it automatically by opening an account.  Tell them you want one and a simple form to fill out.  But you can use it at ATM's world wide with no fee, no foreign transaction charge, plus they rebate most fees charged by the ATM bank, like the 220 baht fee for Thai banks, unlimited.  The one thing a little weird about it is you can withdraw $1,000 per day but only $500 per transaction.  So to get $1000 you have to do 2 withdrawals.  But hey you get the fees back and Visa exchange rate which is pretty close to the mid range you see when you look up exchange rates.

Also you can do international wires with them for a $25 fee.

The CS account allows you to invest across all markets?

The amounts you open with are in USD currency?

Can you recommend a link or two to follow up on your info?

 

And thanks for posting, very interesting angle.

[DiDiChok]

About five years ago, someone calling himself a 'Retired Investor' replied to a topic here on Thai Visa asking a similar kind of question as to how to invest a ฿12 million lump sum to support some Thai family.  I copied the text of his reply as I thought at the time it was very wise advice.  I have not had the time or the data to check the performance of this advice over the last five years, but you may find it interesting and I'd welcome any comments that you may have.  Please ignore any irrelevant bits, as it was the investment angle that most attracted me.  It could be that the dividends have fallen catastrophically by now.  I haven't been able to find the original post, but here's what he said at the time anyway:

 

I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. K-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

 -Retired investor

[AlexRich]

Why not invest in Singapore. They are in a safe environment and there is no witholding tax on dividends, so every dividend goes straight into your account without any deductions.

[Oztruckie]

If you really need to ask that question on a forum,why would you even contemplating investing in securities you obviously know little about,I've invested in securities back home,and only invest in blue chip companies I know.

[GarryP]

On 11/26/2019 at 8:59 AM, garymutchell1987 said:

I would interested in this link as well if you are happy to share

Me too.

 

All my money is in Thailand, having lived here for 38 years. I am a member of the office provident fund, and 90 percent of my other savings are in mutual funds of one type or another and a couple of ETFs. Always interested in other investment opportunities though. I should add that I am now a Thai citizen so am not subject to any local restrictions placed on expats. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by GarryP

[GarryP]

15 hours ago, DiDiChok said:

About five years ago, someone calling himself a 'Retired Investor' replied to a topic here on Thai Visa asking a similar kind of question as to how to invest a ฿12 million lump sum to support some Thai family.  I copied the text of his reply as I thought at the time it was very wise advice.  I have not had the time or the data to check the performance of this advice over the last five years, but you may find it interesting and I'd welcome any comments that you may have.  Please ignore any irrelevant bits, as it was the investment angle that most attracted me.  It could be that the dividends have fallen catastrophically by now.  I haven't been able to find the original post, but here's what he said at the time anyway:

 

I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. K-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

 -Retired investor

Great post. It gives me some ideas for when I retire as I will have no pension and will have to depend entirely on my savings. I had never thought of trying to live purely off dividends, but if those figures are still accurate for an investment of 7 million I would be happy indeed. I want to leave my wife plenty to live off when I am gone and give my son something too when I kick the bucket (not in a hurry though). 

[side]

3 hours ago, Oztruckie said:

If you really need to ask that question on a forum,why would you even contemplating investing in securities you obviously know little about,I've invested in securities back home,and only invest in blue chip companies I know.

Excuse me? Did you even read my OP? Here is the part of that OP that says: "I have a solid, well diversified portfolio sitting elsewhere". ..... My existing investments are across various currencies, stock markets and other financial instruments. Many are blue chip, some are a little more risky, some are even quite obscure. 

 

I most certainly know my way around the investment world, but the true road to success lies in constantly learning. Don't you agree?

 

So, the reason I "need" to ask that question on the investment part of a Thai forum is because I actively seek the opinion of others who may have specific experience that might be useful for further research as I am considering options of where to put some money that I want to place here, somewhere.

 

Does my detailed answer sufficiently satisfy your curiosity and perhaps dampen your obvious disdain for my appalling naivety?

 

Condescension is the distant cousin of sarcasm. Both are total dicks.