Denied Retire Ext. less than 12 months proof.

[arjunadawn]

I am on retirement extension few years now. My last US embassy verification letter was November 18. 

I followed income verification news through the early part of year, and understood there were changes, but was unclear what I needed to do for certain. Each 90 day, I reported in person to Trat Immigration and asked what will suffice for proof of my monthly VA payment? Each time they told me it’s not clear yet.
 

90 days ago I took wife because I now had to have clarity, and they were still uncertain. However, the a Colonel said I should start transferring to Thai bank ASAP and then on my 25 Nov. 19 extension renewal, show at least three months wire transfer. The colonel and staff made a big deal out of arriving at this flexibility for first year changes. (I did this and also included wire transfer data, US bank info and VA deposit, etc).
 

Today I was denied my extension because I have less than 12 months verified deposits in Thai account.  As I understand, had I began to immediately wire transfer after Dec or Jan changes were promulgated, I still could not reach 12 verified wire transfers in the past 12 months. Trat called their boss who was out, forwarded docs... four hours! “No,” even they told me 90 days ago it would be okay, and I supplied overwhelming evidence, they denied me today for a 12 month requirement I never could have met. They even pulled my last November application to see Embassy letter covering me. 
 

Does anyone have any guidance that does not have me leaving wife, family, and home? My visa expires 8 Dec 19

[MeePeeMai]

Gosh I'm sorry to hear that.  That's just typical though of how they do things here as I have been given bad and conflicting info every time I ask a question at Imm.

 

Lots of posts and threads on the subject here and you could switch to a Non-O based on marriage to a Thai (you will probably have to leave LOS and get that outside of Thailand since they will probably ask you for a Thai Insurance policy and/or financials if you try to switch over from a Non O-A or Non O retirement to a Non O based on Thai family here).  No financials required at some places. 

 

I assume you are on a Non O-A (or are you here on a Non-O based on retirement?)

Edited November 25, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[lkv]

19 minutes ago, arjunadawn said:

Does anyone have any guidance that does not have me leaving wife, family, and home? My visa expires 8 Dec 19

A. Contact an agent to discuss "options".

or

B. Start over with a fresh single non O from a nearby consulate. I would advise that non O to be based on marriage.

Edited November 25, 2019 by lkv

[arjunadawn]

2 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Gosh I'm sorry to hear that.  That's just typical though of how they do things here as I have been given bad and conflicting info every time I ask a question at Imm.

 

Lots of posts and threads on the subject here and you could switch to a Non-O based on marriage to a Thai (you will probably have to leave LOS and get that outside of Thailand since they will probably ask you for a Thai Insurance policy if you try to switch over from a Non O-A to a Non O based on Thai family).

 

I assume you are on a Non O-A (or are you here on a Non-O based on retirement?)

Yes, non O Retirement. I have Aetna in thailand and OPD 40,000. Just scrambled to get that this past week. I confess I am not so sharp about my options, and only read here occasionally, but this is horrible for us. 
 

My wife says still time, try Chanthaburi or Chaeng Wattana. I’m pretty sure shopping around not gonna work, or wise... or legal? 
 

The room was filled with expats and I dare say astonished at the “No.” small room. One guy said get a 90 day (Don't understand), seed 400,000, then convert that to Marriage (I do not have 800,000).

[arjunadawn]

Just now, lkv said:

A. Contact an agent to discuss "options".

 

B. Start over with a fresh single non O from a nearby consulate. I would advise that non O to be based on marriage.

Can you tell me more? Maybe... go out nearby, apply to come back in on 90 day Non O? (Keep monthly $ coming in), but apply for the first threshold I reach- marriage extension, 400,000k?). Think we could get and deposit in a month. Not sure about the technical details. 
 

I asked at immigration too. Response to the above question? “Why don’t you switch to marriage extension now?” 
But, ahh, if I dobt have 12 months of deposits, how can...

”Yea, right...” and walked away. 
 

Im way out of my comfort zone. My wife will be home from work shortly. This is disaster. New home, etc. 

[MeePeeMai]

So if you have a Non-O visa, and you have 400,000 in a Thai bank (in your name only), and it has been in there for 2 (sometimes they want 3) months, you should be able to get your extension for marriage to a Thai at your local Imm Office without leaving Thailand.

 

No you cannot go to another office unless you move to another area or put in a change of address etc. You must use your nearest immigration office.

[MeePeeMai]

What he meant by 90 day is to leave Thailand and get a Non-O (multiple entry or a single entry) and return here and then you would be able to get a 12 month extension to that one after "seeding" the 400k in your bank account for the 2 (or 3) months.

 

Don't forget that you can go in before your current extension expires and get a 60 day extension to visit your thai wife.  That will give you 60 day longer here to get the 400k seeded etc.

[MeePeeMai]

14 minutes ago, arjunadawn said:

Im way out of my comfort zone. My wife will be home from work shortly. This is disaster. New home, etc. 

Relaaaaxxxxxx!

 

You still have plenty of time.  Like I said you can get a 60 day extension to visit your wife which will give you 60 more days to plan your next move. I believe it costs 1800 baht (if I recall correctly).

Edited November 25, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Relaaaaxxxxxx!

 

You still have plenty of time.  Like I said you can get a 60 day extension to visit your wife which will give you 60 more days to plan your next move. 

So, can't he do an extension for 60 days for "visiting wife", and then extend 12 months for "retirement"?

 

By that time, he would have the full 12 months of financials?

Edited November 25, 2019 by lkv

[arjunadawn]

7 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Relaaaaxxxxxx!

 

You still have plenty of time.  Like I said you can get a 60 day extension to visit your wife which will give you 60 more days to plan your next move. I believe it costs 1800 baht (if I recall correctly).

This! This was something I overhear by westerner on way out. So, If... they permitted 60 days seeding... and I get extension from Dec on, then maybe... 60 days later could... Hrmm, convert? Convert to marriage extension? 

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

So, can't he do an extension for 60 days for "visiting wife", and then extend 12 months for "retirement"?

 

By that time, he would have the full 12 months of financials?

Yes that would work if he can scrape together the 800k or have a full 12 months of transfers (which meet their criteria of being from a foreign transfer and at or near the same time every month etc..)  The bank account must be in his name alone (as you know but the OP might not).

[MeePeeMai]

1 minute ago, arjunadawn said:

This! This was something I overhear by westerner on way out. So, If... they permitted 60 days seeding... and I get extension from Dec on, then maybe... 60 days later could... Hrmm, convert? Convert to marriage extension? 

Yes if they only want it "seeded" for 2 months (some offices are asking for 3) but your first extension for marriage should only be two months.

 

It would be wise not to wait until the last minute to apply for your extension though (if possible).  Worst case scenario is they will give you 7 days to leave the country if your extension is denied for some reason at that point (after the 60 day extension).

[arjunadawn]

3 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Yes if they only want it "seeded" for 2 months (some offices are asking for 3) but your first extension for marriage should only be two months.

 

It would be wise not to wait until the last minute to apply for your extension though (if possible).  Worst case scenario is they will give you 7 days to leave the country if your extension is denied for some reason at that point (after the 60 day extension).

Thank you so much. I have K bank account in my name for few years. 
 

Wife is going to have to go with me. Now... now she fully grasps the impossibility they demanded. (I can’t tell you how relieved you’ve made me I may have options. I am grateful). 
 

[Number 6]

I'm not here to be snide.

 

I don't know why people continue with this method. Even if you're not caught out this year it will be next or next.

 

It's over. Really.

 

Get the money in the bank. Sleep soundly.

 

Go get a non o in savanakhet and build your funds up.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Number 6

[MeePeeMai]

10 minutes ago, arjunadawn said:

Thank you so much. I have K bank account in my name for few years. 
 

Wife is going to have to go with me. Now... now she fully grasps the impossibility they demanded. (I can’t tell you how relieved you’ve made me I may have options. I am grateful). 
 

The 1st thing to do is go in and ask for a 60 day extension to visit your wife.  I have not yet done it but I believe you will need to show originals (and a copy) of your passport and relevant Visa/Entry Stamp/Departure Card/TM-30 (if you have it in your passport)/latest 90 day report paper as well as your original marriage license and a copy (all copies signed in blue ink by you and the copy of your marriage license signed by both you and your wife).  TM7 form I believe is to request the extension based on marriage.

Edited November 25, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[scubascuba3]

Op, you have a Non imm O so insurance isn't required, you commented earlier you'd got it which sounded like in order to comply

[MeePeeMai]

8 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I'm not here to be snide.

 

I don't know why people continue with this method. Even if you're not caught out this year it will be next or next.

 

It's over. Really.

 

Get the money in the bank. Sleep soundly.

 

Go get a non o in savanakhet and build your funds up.

It sounds like his money is tight due to having a family and building a new house.

If he can get a 60 day extension and get the 400k in the bank soon enough then he won't have to leave and spend the extra money going outside to get a Non O based on marriage.  Cheaper option.

[Mango Bob]

Didn't immigrations state when these new rules came out that the first year they will be lianent but starting the second year you must show the money for each month?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Mango Bob

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Mango Bob said:

Didn't immigrations state when these new rules came out that the first year they will be lianent but starting the second year you must show the money for each month?

Yes

But it is getting late in the year.

It seems he may of not had enough done already this late in the year.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Didn't immigrations state when these new rules came out that the first year they will be lianent but starting the second year you must show the money for each month?

I can't recall anyone getting leniency on here

[mike787]

...and this is EXACTLY the reason i will never buy anything more than a beer in thailand.  Immigration can lock you out at will.  there you have it, all your assets, love, life, history tossed out.  Now you have to switch into damage control plan B extrication.   AKA: you are screwed! so sorry! damm this place.

[UKresonant]

City Break to HCMC and get a non-O ME to visit your wife with her writing a letter requesting the visa? Then if they start doing the 12 month thing rather than 2 transfers it would just mean a couple of short holidays whilst you wait them out ????

Bangkok air is handy to do the trip?

USD notes $200 I think.

No transfer proof required, but no harm in taking the income proof with you, in this unstable environment!

p.s. Plenty pages left in your passport?

Edited November 25, 2019 by UKresonant

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, arjunadawn said:

Does anyone have any guidance that does not have me leaving wife, family, and home? My visa expires 8 Dec 19

You best option may be to go out of new single entry non-o visa and start all over again.

Getting a new visa would be considered your first extension which only requires a few months of transfers.

As suggested before getting a 60 day extension to visit your wife would give you more time to do it.

[elviajero]

Getting a new Non O (spouse) would be your best option so you can start from scratch. With that you should be able to use a few months income transfers and apply for the extension as a spouse or retiree. I’d go for the former.

[arjunadawn]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

I'm not here to be snide.

 

I don't know why people continue with this method. Even if you're not caught out this year it will be next or next.

 

It's over. Really.

 

Get the money in the bank. Sleep soundly.

 

Go get a non o in savanakhet and build your funds up.

Not snide. A fair, hard, but good point. It’s simple for me- my retirement journey into a few years in Thailand worked well with monthly income proofs. It seems I should have- but didn’t see [this] coming. I could not have made 12 months regardless. It’s a 10-11 mo old policy. Not snide. 

[arjunadawn]

56 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You best option may be to go out of new single entry non-o visa and start all over again.

Getting a new visa would be considered your first extension which only requires a few months of transfers.

As suggested before getting a 60 day extension to visit your wife would give you more time to do it.

I was hoping you’d jump in. I decided to post in open instead of PM coz figure your overwhelmed by those. Thank you. 
 

1. Request extension based on Marriage (on this tail end of my existing retirement extension)?
2. Continue with transfers during this time. (Also, put 400,000 in bank as soon as possible).

3. Go to another country and apply for Single Entry O-VISA?

I am like a child arranging this in my head. Thank you all for patience.

[arjunadawn]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

...and this is EXACTLY the reason i will never buy anything more than a beer in thailand.  Immigration can lock you out at will.  there you have it, all your assets, love, life, history tossed out.  Now you have to switch into damage control plan B extrication.   AKA: you are screwed! so sorry! damm this place.

This is precisely how I feel.

[gk10002000]

1 hour ago, Number 6 said:

I'm not here to be snide.

 

I don't know why people continue with this method. Even if you're not caught out this year it will be next or next.

 

It's over. Really.

 

Get the money in the bank. Sleep soundly.

 

Go get a non o in savanakhet and build your funds up.

Many people are on a tight budget and really do live paycheck to paycheck.  They budget properly and can afford to live and make ends meet.  Sure having savings laying around that you don't need would be nice and people should have some cash backup, but many don't.  Now this fellow, the OP seems to be married so in his case the amount of cash to lock up is 400,000 baht if I understand the marriage things correctly.  That is obviously better than 800,000 baht that a single retiree extension would do, but still, it is $13,000 USD which is more than many people have laying around in cash.  I hate tying up money in a foreign country, even though I could afford to do it, and always planned to do the income method. 

[MeePeeMai]

28 minutes ago, arjunadawn said:

I was hoping you’d jump in. I decided to post in open instead of PM coz figure your overwhelmed by those. Thank you. 
 

1. Request extension based on Marriage (on this tail end of my existing retirement extension)?
2. Continue with transfers during this time. (Also, put 400,000 in bank as soon as possible).

3. Go to another country and apply for Single Entry O-VISA?

I am like a child arranging this in my head. Thank you all for patience.

 

1.  IF you can get your bank balance up to 400K in the next 7-10 days then you should ask your local Immigration Office if they will require you to have the 400K in your bank for 2 months, or three months in order to apply for an extension based upon marriage to your Thai wife.  If you can get the 400k in your bank by then and if they say 2 months seeded for switching over to a marriage extension (from your current retirement extension) then you could get the 60 day extension to stay with your wife and go that route (without having to leave the country and get a Non-O at Savanakhet or someplace like that).

 

1a.  If they tell you two months, just remember that they can always say three months when you return to do your extension (not likely but possible) at which point you would be denied and then given 7 days extension (longer) to leave the country (then you must go elsewhere to get a Non-O single or multi entry).

 

2.  Continue with your transfers since you cannot touch the 400k until after your extension is approved and you must make sure to follow the rules on the 400k in the bank method (as far as when you can start withdrawals) and especially continue your monthly transfers if you plan on getting a Non-O outside LOS and then coming back to apply for a 12 month extension based on the income method (in which case no 400k bank balance is required).

 

3.  You could get all the paperwork together and do this prior to Dec 8 when your current extension expires (which would save you 1800 baht fee for the 60 day extension) or you could get the 60 day extension and then take your time planning your trip and doing research here on which place you wish to go to get your Non-O at some point before your 60 day extension expires in Feb of next year.

Edited November 25, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[Number 6]

35 minutes ago, arjunadawn said:

Not snide. A fair, hard, but good point. It’s simple for me- my retirement journey into a few years in Thailand worked well with monthly income proofs. It seems I should have- but didn’t see [this] coming. I could not have made 12 months regardless. It’s a 10-11 mo old policy. Not snide. 

Thanks. It's just killing me to see everyone go through this only to be turned out. I'm honestly of the opinion this is a de facto way of moving everyone to banked method. The problem really arises when the expatriate doesn't have the cash on hand.

 

Good luck.