SURVEY: Elon Musk, innocent, crazy or guilty?

[monkfish]

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

OMG, Vern swore and he called someone a buffalo , thats terrible .

Yep, that makes Musk not guilty of accusing him on being  Pedo.................

 

Yet you fret coz he wrote "Pedo Guy" that's terrible lol.
and then sues for $190 mil hahaha

[sanemax]

22 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Yet you fret coz he wrote "Pedo Guy" that's terrible lol.
and then sues for $190 mil hahaha

Accusing someone of being a pedo is indeed terrible and serious , calling people Kwai and saying f off are just two common swear words .

  You seem concerned about Vern saying f-off/buffalo , but unconcerned about Musks false pedo accusations 

[monkfish]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Accusing someone of being a pedo is indeed terrible and serious , calling people Kwai and saying f off are just two common swear words .

  You seem concerned about Vern saying f-off/buffalo , but unconcerned about Musks false pedo accusations 

Well maybe we should ask the Thai Navy Seal Divers if they take objection to being called a Kwai?
I would say that's in very bad taste considering one died risking his life to save boys.

[canuckamuck]

 Musk crossed a line, but it was an, I'm sorry I take it back kind of line, not a, here take 190 million, kind of line.

Sticks and stones and all that.

And Vern started it by also crossing a line.

[sanemax]

20 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Well maybe we should ask the Thai Navy Seal Divers if they take objection to being called a Kwai?
I would say that's in very bad taste considering one died risking his life to save boys.

Well, yes, maybe you could start a thread about that ?

Shocking that Vern called people "Kwai" , Musk was right all along .............

[AsianAtHeart]

Not guilty according to the law, but not courteous nor gentlemanly.

 

The laws should not be tightened, but this does not mean people should exercise no restraint.

[amykat]

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

Well maybe we should ask the Thai Navy Seal Divers if they take objection to being called a Kwai?
I would say that's in very bad taste considering one died risking his life to save boys.

Did Vern do that in public media knowing he has a very large following?? Or was that a private text?  Are we not allowed to say our opinions privately??  That is highly different.

[thaitot]

He asked for too much. Vern's reputation and potential earnings would have never reached a million dollar bench mark. The jury saw this as a money grab. Sorry this is why everything costs more because of greedy lawyers.  Trying to recover 190 million from an insult was just not realistic and people see thru this. 

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, thaitot said:

He asked for too much. Vern's reputation and potential earnings would have never reached a million dollar bench mark. The jury saw this as a money grab. Sorry this is why everything costs more because of greedy lawyers.  Trying to recover 190 million from an insult was just not realistic and people see thru this. 

Wouldnt the Judge then give Vern what he thought was a reasonable amount, rather than finding Musk not guilty ?

  Are you saying that the Judge found Musk to be not guilty.................because Vern sued him for too much ?

  surely those two things have no connection ?

[AsianAtHeart]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Wouldnt the Judge then give Vern what he thought was a reasonable amount, rather than finding Musk not guilty ?

  Are you saying that the Judge found Musk to be not guilty.................because Vern sued him for too much ?

  surely those two things have no connection ?

In the American court system with a trial by jury, the judge does not decide the guilt or innocence of the accused.  That is the jury's task.  The judge, if the jury finds the accused to be guilty, then determines the appropriate sentencing.  If, however, the jury has not convicted the accused, the judge has no sentence to give.  One does not sentence an acquitted party to any kind of punishment.

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

In the American court system with a trial by jury, the judge does not decide the guilt or innocence of the accused.  That is the jury's task.  The judge, if the jury finds the accused to be guilty, then determines the appropriate sentencing.  If, however, the jury has not convicted the accused, the judge has no sentence to give.  One does not sentence an acquitted party to any kind of punishment.

Yes, but my point was : Would the amount of money claimed have any effect on the verdict ?

[Roy Baht]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's make another survey:

Let's say a rich guy would make a deal with you. You sell him the right to call you a pedo-guy, read by millions of people on Twitter and then reprinted all over the world.

For how much would you sell that right?

Is 1,000 USD enough? Or maybe 10k?

Or should anybody be able to call you such names with out any compensation?

Interesting. This is exactly what a member of the Law and Economics Movement would say. And according to that school of thought, Musk should have been found guilty and forced to pay exactly that amount ("For how much would you sell that right?"). Of course, how do we know exactly what that amount is or if Vern would honestly estimate it? But we could go further with this. As a Western man living in Thailand, I don't like it when any prominent international social figure calls a Western man living in Thailand who is not a pedo, a pedo. It propagates a negative stereotype I abhor. How much would I charge to sell that right, the right to not have Western men in Thailand groundlessly called pedos? How much would you charge? Should Musk pay that too? To all Western men living in Thailand?

[AsianAtHeart]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but my point was : Would the amount of money claimed have any effect on the verdict ?

In theory, it should have no effect on the guilt or innocence phase of the trial, which is the jury's part.  It might have an effect on the judge's sentencing, however--if it reaches that phase.

[DJ54]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Are you saying that the Judge found Musk to be not guilty.................because Vern sued him for too much ?

It was a trial by jury not by judge. Some maybe all have a choice 

Trial by Judge or Trisl by Jury. The verdict by jury was not guilty.

Which would presumably tie the judge hands of awarding money...

Don’t know I’m not a lawyer 

[sanemax]

24 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

It was a trial by jury not by judge. Some maybe all have a choice 

Trial by Judge or Trisl by Jury. The verdict by jury was not guilty.

Which would presumably tie the judge hands of awarding money...

Don’t know I’m not a lawyer 

Yes, but that hasnt answered my question .

Would the amount of money seeked have any effect on the outcome of the trial ?

[MarcB]

Elon Musk wins the award of "Instigator of the longest thread on Thaivisa ever"

The reward is 190 M Baht

[DrTuner]

52.5% are for a big brother society. When are Elon's Mars trips due to start again? Have to get away from this insane ball.

[SkyFax]

12 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but that hasnt answered my question .

Would the amount of money seeked have any effect on the outcome of the trial ?

No -- the outcome was based on the jury following the standard California jury instructions for defamation involving a private individual.

[billd766]

21 hours ago, jobsworth said:

The man is a visionary who will take us all to Mars and ensure the survival of our species. Support him.

Why would I want to go to Mars.

 

I prefer the small chocolates Mars bars I can buy ib the shops to eat.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, monkfish said:

The texts prove he was in it for the $$$$$ and a low life not a nice guy and there are several more go see the link i sent he calls them Kwai which is Thai for Buffalo.

There is only a timeline and not a dateline so it could have happened on any day.

[billd766]

17 hours ago, monkfish said:

Well maybe we should ask the Thai Navy Seal Divers if they take objection to being called a Kwai?
I would say that's in very bad taste considering one died risking his life to save boys.

Maybe we should as all the expats in Thailand if they take objection to being called a farang?

 

15 hours ago, thaitot said:

He asked for too much. Vern's reputation and potential earnings would have never reached a million dollar bench mark. The jury saw this as a money grab. Sorry this is why everything costs more because of greedy lawyers.  Trying to recover 190 million from an insult was just not realistic and people see thru this. 

AFAIR Vern actually asked for USD $75,000.

 

Using the no win no pay lawyers I suspect that they looked at Musk's fortune and bumped the claim up so that they could get a large amount as well. Having said that, I wasn't there and I really don't think anyone from TVF was involved either. 

[Artisi]

On Monday, December 09, 2019 at 7:31 PM, monkfish said:

Well maybe we should ask the Thai Navy Seal Divers if they take objection to being called a Kwai?
I would say that's in very bad taste considering one died risking his life to save boys.

Ex seal. An unfortunate accident and a risk that all the divers took with 99.9% of them those nasty farangs who need to be carefully watched and controlled daily by the immigration authorities. 

What short memories some people have. 

[monkfish]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

Maybe we should as all the expats in Thailand if they take objection to being called a farang?

 

AFAIR Vern actually asked for USD $75,000.

 

Using the no win no pay lawyers I suspect that they looked at Musk's fortune and bumped the claim up so that they could get a large amount as well. Having said that, I wasn't there and I really don't think anyone from TVF was involved either. 

So you think from $190,000,000 Unsworth only wanted 75K lol ?? hahaha

[billd766]

13 hours ago, monkfish said:

So you think from $190,000,000 Unsworth only wanted 75K lol ?? hahaha

As you are so knowledgeable please tell us who exactly claimed the 190 million dollars. Don"t forget to include the links proving your comment, will you? Especially as you know ALL of the details about the case.

[SkyFax]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

Maybe we should as all the expats in Thailand if they take objection to being called a farang?

 

AFAIR Vern actually asked for USD $75,000.

 

Using the no win no pay lawyers I suspect that they looked at Musk's fortune and bumped the claim up so that they could get a large amount as well. Having said that, I wasn't there and I really don't think anyone from TVF was involved either. 

The $75,000 claimed in the original court filing was strictly for jurisdictional purposes:

 

From Title 28-JUDICIARY AND JUDICIAL PROCEDURE

PART IV-JURISDICTION AND VENUE

CHAPTER 85-DISTRICT COURTS; JURISDICTION

§1332. Diversity of citizenship; amount in controversy; costs

(a) The (Federal) district courts shall have original jurisdiction of all civil actions where the matter in controversy exceeds the sum or value of $75,000, exclusive of interest and costs, and is between-

(1) citizens of different States;

(2) citizens of a State and citizens or subjects of a foreign state ...

[transam]

On 12/9/2019 at 7:04 PM, monkfish said:

Yet you fret coz he wrote "Pedo Guy" that's terrible lol.
and then sues for $190 mil hahaha

Are you a pedo.....?    ????

[marke985]

On 12/10/2019 at 12:00 PM, SkyFax said:

No -- the outcome was based on the jury following the standard California jury instructions for defamation involving a private individual.

I'm not so sure about that.  The Jury are ordinary people like most of us on this forum.  If someone on this forum got that idea it is likely someone on the jury could of also, which could of influenced their opinion on the case.

[marke985]

A few questions I have about this case if anyone followed it very closely.

1. Was this a criminal or civil case?  In a criminal, you must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I remember My old law professor back in 2005, use the example of a 95%+ certainty to be found guilty.  Whereas in a civil case beyond reasonable doubt does not factor in and a 51%+ certainty can be used to be found guilty.  Hence, you often see people found Not guilty in the criminal case, but then found guilty in the civil and a dollar amount judgement is awarded.  (i.e. OJ Simpson Case)

 

2. Musk claimed the term (pedo guy) was a common term used in South Africa when he was growing up to mean creepy old guy.  Can anyone confirm this?  Any South Africans on this thread?

[transam]

5 minutes ago, marke985 said:

A few questions I have about this case if anyone followed it very closely.

1. Was this a criminal or civil case?  In a criminal, you must be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I remember My old law professor back in 2005, use the example of a 95%+ certainty to be found guilty.  Whereas in a civil case beyond reasonable doubt does not factor in and a 51%+ certainty can be used to be found guilty.  Hence, you often see people found Not guilty in the criminal case, but then found guilty in the civil and a dollar amount judgement is awarded.  (i.e. OJ Simpson Case)

 

2. Musk claimed the term (pedo guy) was a common term used in South Africa when he was growing up to mean creepy old guy.  Can anyone confirm this?  Any South Africans on this thread?

https://www.iol.co.za/saturday-star/news/elon-musks-pedo-guy-insult-leaves-sa-most-bemused-38798885

[SkyFax]

54 minutes ago, marke985 said:

A few questions I have about this case if anyone followed it very closely.

1. Was this a criminal or civil case?  In a criminal,  <CUT>

This was a civil trial. 

 

As to the above:

the outcome was based on the jury following the standard California jury instructions for defamation involving a private individual.

I'm not so sure about that. 

 

That's what the jury foreman said.