Serious Ideas To Improve Things For Falang In Thailand.

[November Rain]

Increase the price of airfare into Thailand, slash the price of airfare out again.

Very good idea, maybe means testing of Farangs at the immigration office also would weed out the paupers and poverty packers.

Because as we all know, only rich farangs are good. The more money you have, the better person you are..... yeah, OK, then

Excuse me, but isn't this a case of farang discriminating against farang? You can't seriously mean these suggestions. Tourism depends on competitive airfares and a hospitable reception. Some BM's here sound as if they're trying to run with the current regime. So do it - you'll soon learn who your friends are. You're farangs too and they'll never let you forget it as long as you're sitting on their turf. It's human nature. From an expat.

My sarcasm obviously didn't come off well & I couldn't get the smileys to drop down. I was meaning I didn't agree.

[jdinasia]

You are generally correct and yes romanizing is a flawed science - especially when lazy 'falangs' set out to do it. However I venture to say that given 2 farangs ...or Thais for that matter - side by side - if one said it with an R sound (as it is spelled and properly spoken) and the other the lazy L sound - the one speaking with the R sound would impress and show better to any Thai listening.

I try to put my best foot forward when I speak and though at times I may slip into a lax speaking language - even in english; I still see it better to show the Thai that I know better and try to be better than an unlearned and unknowing person. It is no different that trying to hear and learn the tones properly. Yeah you may find that some Thais will by some miracle make sense of a toneless attempt at Thai but you would go so much further if you at least try to do it right. Making excuses that they hear it the same doesn't float - they do hear it different - just as they do the tones.

I totally agree with trying your best to speak as correctly as you can. But ? is neither an R nor an L, it is what it is. It is definitely an R sound at the beginning of a word. Sometimes in a word it is properly pronounced as an L sound. I find the Thais actually pronounce Farang with a hybrid sound that is a little of both, when I speak I try to emulate that sound. Call me lazy if you will, but I think people are more impressed if your speech sounds familiar rather than overly succinct. We are always amused by foreigners whose English is mechanical and too formal. It might be correct but they still exude foreignness.

I am never mistaken for a farang and I don't use an L sound when I tell people that I am indeed a farang, but I do agree with 99% or what you say.

Yes we are always amused at the mechanical english some foreigners to western countries may use but are you not even more amused at someone that offers you Lice instead of Rice? You may understand what they say in the context of the sentence but you most certainly will laugh and consider their language ability to be something less than..... 'perfect'? I would rather the mecahincs knowing they are really trying.

sorry ... but if you aren't mistaken for a farang ... you probably are not one

[jdinasia]

re: Immigration ......

Get rid of visa exemptions.

Everyone pays for and gets a 90day visa .... show an income source outside of Thailand and get it extended <for the fee> Make the 90 day visa 1000 baht and a 30 day TV 500 baht. Charge 2000 for the extension each time. Make it as fast and painless as possible.

Do real cheacks on Non-Imm annual extensions and up the fee a small amount then do away with 90 day reporting and re-entry permits.

[qwertz]

Increase the price of airfare into Thailand, slash the price of airfare out again.

Very good idea, maybe means testing of Farangs at the immigration office also would weed out the paupers and poverty packers.

Because as we all know, only rich farangs are good. The more money you have, the better person you are..... yeah, OK, then

Excuse me, but isn't this a case of farang discriminating against farang? You can't seriously mean these suggestions. Tourism depends on competitive airfares and a hospitable reception. Some BM's here sound as if they're trying to run with the current regime. So do it - you'll soon learn who your friends are. You're farangs too and they'll never let you forget it as long as you're sitting on their turf. It's human nature. From an expat.

My sarcasm obviously didn't come off well & I couldn't get the smileys to drop down. I was meaning I didn't agree.

I didn't misunderstand your message, NR. It's the others I can't fathom. Are they for real?

[ZukiSuzuki]

Serious Ideas To Improve Things For Falang In Thailand?, Won't happen but perhaps a wish list.

1. Fish and chip shops on every Soi

2. Free visas

(In order of importance)

KD

They'd charge us 200 baht for tartar sauce

So long as they issue a correct reciept with the minimum of fuss then i realy don't mind.

[JR Texas]

Serious Ideas To Improve Things For Falang In Thailand?, Won't happen but perhaps a wish list.

1. Fish and chip shops on every Soi

2. Free visas

(In order of importance)

KD

They'd charge us 200 baht for tartar sauce

So long as they issue a correct reciept with the minimum of fuss then i realy don't mind.

JR Texas: 1) flush the existing visa and business rules and regulations down the toilet and start over (lower the bar on everything and make it extremely easy for foreigners to remain in LOS...especially those that are married or have any type of property or business; 2) create a level playing field that encourages small scale business investment so that the economy can start growing and people can obtain decent employment; 3) stop forcing farangs to leave the country for a visa status change or extension or tourist visa (crazy behavior); 4) make it extremely easy for farangs to get as many tourists visas as they want....back to back for infinity........the vast majority are doing nothing wrong and are only spending money; 5) make sure that each consulate does the same thing........this week you can get that type of visa in Penang, next week you can't but you perhaps can in Singapore (totally nuts).

[bendix]

Clamp down on the visible sex industry. Close Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Walking Street and Patpong.

That, in a stroke, would get rid of muscle-shirt wearing, scrawny-armed, 55 year old divorced born again youths, with their necks straining under the weight of 8 buddhist amulets worn in a forlorn attempt to curry favour and look local.

Then, they would all follow dgoz to Cambodia, raising the average IQ of farangs in both Thailand and Cambodia in the process.

Edited April 3, 2007 by bendix

[Heng]

JR Texas: 1) flush the existing visa and business rules and regulations down the toilet and start over (lower the bar on everything and make it extremely easy for foreigners to remain in LOS...especially those that are married or have any type of property or business; 2) create a level playing field that encourages small scale business investment so that the economy can start growing and people can obtain decent employment; 3) stop forcing farangs to leave the country for a visa status change or extension or tourist visa (crazy behavior); 4) make it extremely easy for farangs to get as many tourists visas as they want....back to back for infinity........the vast majority are doing nothing wrong and are only spending money; 5) make sure that each consulate does the same thing........this week you can get that type of visa in Penang, next week you can't but you perhaps can in Singapore (totally nuts).

But how will any of those ideas continue to annoy and frustrate foreigners?

Keep the current regs, but work in some kind of game show format down at Suan Phlu to make the wait time more entertaining? Work Point could set up "Game Tossakarn Farang" and maybe a more adult oriented version of "Black Box."

[LindsayBKK]

Farang is spelled ปรั่ง the middle consonant is an R sound, but Thai phonetics have it resembling more of an L sound. spell it however you want. Either way you say it they hear it just the same. It’s the same as us not hearing the tones so easy, they don’t easily distinguish between an R and an L in the middle of a word. Romanizing Thai is generally a flawed science. Our accents mess it up too.

As far as the OP is concerned, people should come here. Be nice and follow the rules.

ฝรั่ง not ปรั่ง = ปรั่ง bpràng

ฝรั่ง ( ฝะ-หรั่ง- ) fà-ràng [ N ] westerner ; caucasian ; guava ;

มันฝรั่ง = mun fà-ràng potato

ผักชีฝรั่ง = pàk chee fà-ràng Parsley ;

ดีเกลือฝรั่ง = dee gleua fà-ràng magnesium sulfate ;

[Ijustwannateach]

Clamp down on the visible sex industry. Close Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Walking Street and Patpong.

That, in a stroke, would get rid of muscle-shirt wearing, scrawny-armed, 55 year old divorced born again youths, with their necks straining under the weight of 8 buddhist amulets worn in a forlorn attempt to curry favour and look local.

Then, they would all follow dgoz to Cambodia, raising the average IQ of farangs in both Thailand and Cambodia in the process.

I'm of two minds about shutting down the tourist-oriented sex business- on one hand, it tends to heavily distort relations between inexperienced well-meaning farangs and Thais in Bangkok- on the other, you can't get rid of it entirely and it's better to have a known place to keep it.

[bendix]

Clamp down on the visible sex industry. Close Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Walking Street and Patpong.

That, in a stroke, would get rid of muscle-shirt wearing, scrawny-armed, 55 year old divorced born again youths, with their necks straining under the weight of 8 buddhist amulets worn in a forlorn attempt to curry favour and look local.

Then, they would all follow dgoz to Cambodia, raising the average IQ of farangs in both Thailand and Cambodia in the process.

I'm of two minds about shutting down the tourist-oriented sex business- on one hand, it tends to heavily distort relations between inexperienced well-meaning farangs and Thais in Bangkok- on the other, you can't get rid of it entirely and it's better to have a known place to keep it.

Why not? I'm deadly serious. Get rid of the most visible aspects of it - the symbols - and the sex tourists and sexpats will stay away in droves. If people who remain want that kind of thing, it aint exactly hard to find in other venues.

In one fell swoop, the gene pool of the Farang community would be improved beyond measure. Those left behind would be genuine family people, genuine retirees, genuine teachers and genuine expats working here and paying taxes.

The reputation of farang among Thais and the Thai government would be enhanced. The farang kee nok of popular thai culture would disappear. The images of farangs being paraded on Pattaya TV, facing kiddie sex charges, would go. Our collective reputation wouldn't be dragged through the mud. The government wouldnt need to introduce more draconian immigration rules, catching many innocents in a net designed to capture the human detritus that it is intended to capture.

Frankly, everyone would benefit.

[kiakaha]

I quite like things just the way they are

[chanchao]

> Clamp down on the visible sex industry. Close Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Walking Street and Patpong.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaahhh!!! What a nightmare scenario..!!!

I absolutely hate massage parlours and karaoke.

But on the plus side, the street scenery would get a lot more interesting...

Edited April 3, 2007 by chanchao

[Flysiam]

You are generally correct and yes romanizing is a flawed science - especially when lazy 'falangs' set out to do it. However I venture to say that given 2 farangs ...or Thais for that matter - side by side - if one said it with an R sound (as it is spelled and properly spoken) and the other the lazy L sound - the one speaking with the R sound would impress and show better to any Thai listening.

I try to put my best foot forward when I speak and though at times I may slip into a lax speaking language - even in english; I still see it better to show the Thai that I know better and try to be better than an unlearned and unknowing person. It is no different that trying to hear and learn the tones properly. Yeah you may find that some Thais will by some miracle make sense of a toneless attempt at Thai but you would go so much further if you at least try to do it right. Making excuses that they hear it the same doesn't float - they do hear it different - just as they do the tones.

I totally agree with trying your best to speak as correctly as you can. But ? is neither an R nor an L, it is what it is. It is definitely an R sound at the beginning of a word. Sometimes in a word it is properly pronounced as an L sound. I find the Thais actually pronounce Farang with a hybrid sound that is a little of both, when I speak I try to emulate that sound. Call me lazy if you will, but I think people are more impressed if your speech sounds familiar rather than overly succinct. We are always amused by foreigners whose English is mechanical and too formal. It might be correct but they still exude foreignness.

I am never mistaken for a farang and I don't use an L sound when I tell people that I am indeed a farang, but I do agree with 99% or what you say.

Yes we are always amused at the mechanical english some foreigners to western countries may use but are you not even more amused at someone that offers you Lice instead of Rice? You may understand what they say in the context of the sentence but you most certainly will laugh and consider their language ability to be something less than..... 'perfect'? I would rather the mecahincs knowing they are really trying.

sorry ... but if you aren't mistaken for a farang ... you probably are not one

Know of what you speak before you speak. Yes, if you were to look at me there is no mistaking - I am farang. But I do not speak like one. Living here since I was 11 and attending Thai schools will do that to you. So, my friend, you are probably wrong.

[steveromagnino]

Then, they would all follow dgoz to Cambodia, raising the average IQ of farangs in both Thailand and Cambodia in the process.

oi, I came up with that, copying (in true style) off Rob Muldoon. Why Rob Muldoon? Because he robbed us.

Interesting that so many have such an isolated view that we should care about 'farangs' rather than foreigners, but ok, whatever, most of this board are farang so I guess I can let that go.

1. Significantly reduce illegal sex industry

2. Control all english teachers and kick out any with fake degrees forever

3. 30 day visa on arrival one use one extension only per year; otherwise must apply at an embassy but can get 1 year rolling or similar with proof of income etc (note point 6)

4. Reduced queues and delays for work permits

5. Compulsory language tests for PR and citizenship, but reduced time for applying for both

6. No special treatment for any farangs married or having children here compared to single

7. Maximum of 2X double pricing or less than 100b for any free vs. double price scenario

8. Standardised paperwork for bank loans etc for farangs

9. Clear retirement rules at any age with mandatory language and culture tests

10.Reduce list of prohibited occupations

11.Maintain current land ownership laws for all areas and enforce except Bangkok metro area for properties over the value of 10m baht less than XYZ size; one property per person; introduce clear lease policy for retirees etc in selected beachfront resort areas

12.Set TAT tourist targets of 10m tourist visitors per year and no more, then reduce budget allocations

The remainder are all more country related than farang related, so I'll leave it at that for now.

[aussiestyle1983]

I think a good idea would be for the MOE to arrange a formal foriegn teacher training school that would lead to a formal qualification here that could be used to get a TL and WP.

There are obviously many under qualified teachers here, good and bad, but many teachers choose to not work legally here or they quit and go back to their home country because they don't have a degree (This is due to not uderstanding to requirements needed to be a teacher here, some people say a degree is required, some say it isn't required)

For those who don't meet the requirements set by the MOE to get a TL and WP, they could pay a fee, dedicate however much time it would take out of their lives and do this course. They would then be able to teach here legally and not have to worry about anything (they would also have training on how to teach Thais specifically, which would be a huge advantage.)

I feel this would stop many good teachers with years of experience (those without silly degrees in un-related fields) from giving up here and returning home. Many of those people aren't going to study back home and pay thousands of dollars to get a degree to come here again and earn peanuts (several people who have the time and money such as myself are going back home to get qualified but lets face it, most peole aren't) So if the MOE offered its own course that would help un-qualified teachers become qualified, im sure there would never be a shortage of good English teachers here and im sure they could make a decent ammount of money from the course.

[bendix]

Then, they would all follow dgoz to Cambodia, raising the average IQ of farangs in both Thailand and Cambodia in the process.

oi, I came up with that, copying (in true style) off Rob Muldoon. Why Rob Muldoon? Because he robbed us.

Interesting that so many have such an isolated view that we should care about 'farangs' rather than foreigners, but ok, whatever, most of this board are farang so I guess I can let that go.

1. Significantly reduce illegal sex industry

2. Control all english teachers and kick out any with fake degrees forever

3. 30 day visa on arrival one use one extension only per year; otherwise must apply at an embassy but can get 1 year rolling or similar with proof of income etc (note point 6)

4. Reduced queues and delays for work permits

5. Compulsory language tests for PR and citizenship, but reduced time for applying for both

6. No special treatment for any farangs married or having children here compared to single

7. Maximum of 2X double pricing or less than 100b for any free vs. double price scenario

8. Standardised paperwork for bank loans etc for farangs

9. Clear retirement rules at any age with mandatory language and culture tests

10.Reduce list of prohibited occupations

11.Maintain current land ownership laws for all areas and enforce except Bangkok metro area for properties over the value of 10m baht less than XYZ size; one property per person; introduce clear lease policy for retirees etc in selected beachfront resort areas

12.Set TAT tourist targets of 10m tourist visitors per year and no more, then reduce budget allocations

The remainder are all more country related than farang related, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Oh oh oh oh. I got another one. We should ban all smart-arsed Thais from posting on Thaivisa on two grounds. One, it seriously undermines TV Members' collective view that Thais are nitwits and two, we don't want no common sense spouted around these 'ere parts, do you 'ear y'all?

Edited April 3, 2007 by bendix

[onzestan]

Frankly, everyone would benefit.

True.

One could also convert suwannapum into one big bordello in the transit area so that

the sex tourists don't have to enter the country, and we could use Don Meuang again

for international flights.

:D

Cheers

Onzestan

Edited April 3, 2007 by onzestan

[bendix]

[

True.

One could also convert suwannapum into one big bordello in the transit area so that

the sex tourists don't have to enter the country, and we could use Don Meuang again

for international flights.

:D

Cheers

Onzestan

Evidently, Bangkok bar owners are blaming the new airport on a business downtown, suggesting (bizarrely) that the airport's location means people are ignoring Bangkok and heading straight for Pattaya.

The poor loves.

I hope it's true, and long may it continue.

[steveromagnino]

I think a good idea would be for the MOE to arrange a formal foriegn teacher training school that would lead to a formal qualification here that could be used to get a TL and WP.

So if the MOE offered its own course that would help un-qualified teachers become qualified, im sure there would never be a shortage of good English teachers here and im sure they could make a decent ammount of money from the course.

Despite being an Aussie, your point makes excellent sense. I think a two year diploma including 6 months specifically about Thai language and culture would be a great benefit; and perhaps the same institution could also do a 6 month orientation for foreign teaching staff coming.

Teachers would then be able to teach say primary school, secondary school english or english language only at other institutions.

Only thing would be how to get rid of that horrible Australian accent, and replace it with a sophisticated Kiwi one. I am not sure that any school could work that miracle.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think this thread is about foreigners in general, not teachers (who are a tiny part of the foreign population here)- but whatever rules are finally decided on for teachers, they should be clear, transparent, internally consistent, and applied consistently (if this is to help them as foreigners)...

re. restrictions on the illegal sex trade- that would primarily affect millions of Thais, not foreigners (I think Bendix and I were discussing the foreign-tourist-targetting areas, a tiny part of the overall sex-industry)...

and it's hard for me to see how certain items on SM's list (like not allowing free competition for property ownership at all levels) help foreigners.

[cdnvic]

11.Maintain current land ownership laws for all areas and enforce except Bangkok metro area for properties over the value of 10m baht less than XYZ size; one property per person; introduce clear lease policy for retirees etc in selected beachfront resort areas

That just reinforces the perception that Thailand exists only along Sukhumvit and Silom. I don't think that funneling people into what's already a farang ghetto will help matters. All you will get are a lot of 5m properties with 10m baht prices.

Besides, money does not filter the good from the bad. What is needed are proceedures where the immigration officer has to ask three questions to every arrival;

1. "Do you have a valid visa?"

2. "Do you have enough funds to support yourself in Thailand?"

3. "Are you a tw@t?"

Correct answers: 1:yes 2:yes 3:no

[bendix]

What is needed are proceedures where the immigration officer has to ask three questions to every arrival;

1. "Do you have a valid visa?"

2. "Do you have enough funds to support yourself in Thailand?"

3. "Are you a tw@t?"

Correct answers: 1:yes 2:yes 3:no

hahahahaha. ###### ###### ###### and buggery ######.

Why couldn't I have come up with that line?

Would you let me in with 2 out of 3 right, cdnvic?

Edited April 3, 2007 by bendix

[PhilHarries]

Closing down the sex industry really cracks me up but I suppose this is a flights of fancy thread.

PS Prostitutes work in brothels, beer bars are not brothels ergo bar girls are not prostitutes. Elementary dear Watson, Thai logic.

If you want to kill off the sex tourist business, just get the girls to form a union and charge the same price as London, Hamburg or Amsterdam.

One thing they could do is start locking up trouble making farangs in the monkey house untill the last day of their visit, or visa. Then escort them to their place of residence, hotel or whatever, supervise their bag packing then take them to Suvarnabhumi and kick them out with a nice big "persona non grata" stamp in their passport.

A few reports of that back in thugland might make them change their holiday plans.

[bendix]

I'm not suggesting close down the sex industry. The idea is neither desirable, nor possible. Read my post again.

[aussiestyle1983]

Only thing would be how to get rid of that horrible Australian accent, and replace it with a sophisticated Kiwi one. I am not sure that any school could work that miracle.

Good one mate!

[cdnvic]

Only thing would be how to get rid of that horrible Australian accent, and replace it with a sophisticated Kiwi one. I am not sure that any school could work that miracle.

Good one mate!

The difficulty is finding a Kiwi teacher that will come to work everyday

[aussiestyle1983]

I think this thread is about foreigners in general, not teachers (who are a tiny part of the foreign population here)-

re. restrictions on the illegal sex trade- that would primarily affect millions of Thais, not foreigners

I believe that foreign teachers make up more of the a tiny percent of the population here, and before Thailand can confidently say that the people here can speak English, there will need to be a lot more foreign teachers here than there are right now, so changes will need to be made before the foriegn teacher population here is as high as it needs to be before English can become more widely and correctly used. The way things are going ATM combined with the current teaching laws and requirements, there are going to need to be some serious changes before Thailand will have the number of qualified foriegn teachers that it needs. Also remember, English is the International language, so the more English speaking Thais there are, the more business opurtunities that become available.

As for the restrictions on the illegal sex trade, that would also help clean out some of the un-desireable whore monger type teachers who come here with their fake degrees and use their illegally earnt salary to pay for their viagra and whore mongering habits!

Edited April 3, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[qwertz]

I think this thread is about foreigners in general, not teachers (who are a tiny part of the foreign population here)-

re. restrictions on the illegal sex trade- that would primarily affect millions of Thais, not foreigners

I believe that foreign teachers make up more of the a tiny percent of the population here, and before Thailand can confidently say that the people here can speak English, there will need to be a lot more foreign teachers here than there are right now, so changes will need to be made before the foriegn teacher population here is as high as it needs to be before English can become more widely and correctly used. The way things are going ATM combined with the current teaching laws and requirements, there are going to need to be some serious changes before Thailand will have the number of qualified foriegn teachers that it needs. Also remember, English is the International language, so the more English speaking Thais there are, the more business opurtunities that become available.

As for the restrictions on the illegal sex trade, that would also help clean out some of the un-desireable whore monger type teachers who come here with their fake degrees and use their illegally earnt salary to pay for their viagra and whore mongering habits!

Sh!t! Morality and impotence tests? Now I've got to change all my plans!

[PhilHarries]

I'm not suggesting close down the sex industry. The idea is neither desirable, nor possible. Read my post again.

I know what you meant Bendix, I was just being facecious.

One thing they could do to improve the lives of not just expats but everybody in Thailand and that is to clean the place up. I mean physically not morally, just take a look around any neighborhood at the mountains of trash laying around. Just mark out a city block, or urban area, and get a crowd of local people, provide some skips, and pay them 100 Baht for a day's clearing.