Erewin National Park - Forget Double Pricing

[KhunMarco]

double post sorry!

Edited April 3, 2007 by KhunMarco

[sriracha john]

I apologize for having overlooked this fiscal year's quarterly thread on double-pricing and arriving in such a tardy manner.

I post my standard response in the hopes that one day the Thai solution proposed to this Thai/Foreigner issue becomes reality:

Ahhhh... another thread to which the following is appropriate:

Sorry to have not noticed this month's version of this monthly thread earlier:

I have never heard of a tax id and work permit in tandem NOT get someone in at local prices.

Just off the top of my head and to be quite specific from personal experiences, the following parks would accept ONLY Thai National ID cards for admission at Thai prices:

Pang Sida National Park

Huay Huat National Park

Khao Sam Roi Yot National Marine Park

It is a highly inconsistent policy extended across the country which lends itself to abuse and charges of racism/favoritism, and creates a great deal of resentment. Certainly not worth the ill will it generates.

It's a shame when those in power to effect change ignore the recommendations of those with brains. The solution is right in front of their noses:

Dr. Adis Israngkura, an economist at Chiang Mai University and a consultant to Thailand's first and foremost "think tank" (Thailand Development Research Institute) conducted a research project for TDRI on this very topic and wrote the best paper, "Determining entrance fees to national parks: the case of Thailand" that I have ever encountered on the subject.

The paper, published in 2001, made the following recommendations:

1. Higher fees, for all, to the more popular parks with many facilities, which can subsidize the smaller parks with very few facilities.

2. Higher fees, for all, on long week-ends/holidays when parks tend to be heavily visited to help ease congestion and lessen environmental degradation, which will result in increased visitor satisfaction.

3. Annual memberships and lifetime memberships should be offered and available to all.

4. Both Thai and foreigners should pay the same entrance fee, but special services should be made available to the foreign visitor for additional higher fees, such as English-speaking tour/travel guides or English-language information booklets/maps. "The current policy unnecessarily jeopardizes the the image of the overall tourism industry."

5. Entrances fees should be exempted for the elderly, the handicapped, and children visiting on school trips.

I think when experts, and Thai himself, recognizes it as a problem, it's VERY telling....

[meemiathai]

Just my 2 Satang on this.

I was at a waterfall in Koh Chang and was as equally surprised as the OP about the huge difference in entry fee.

Its one of the very few things that annoys me here. Imagine if this was done in a Western country. The media would have a field day with it!

Also notice : English for opening hours and screw-farang price. Native language for Thai price, I wonder why they don't write Thai price in English

So this is the type of signs that farangs are accusing them for trying to hide the facts that there is a double pricing system? I thought farangs had logic?

[Maigo6]

years ago on Khaon San Road, a travel agent asked me out to dinner. Her friend kept saying, "he is a ######"(rhymes with banker). She agreed and after I was called a ###### for a few times asked - "are you taking the piss?". They weren't and later that night I found out that they thought '######' meant a really handsome guy.

No Neeranam my old mate, she really did think you were a banker.

[meemiathai]

years ago on Khaon San Road, a travel agent asked me out to dinner. Her friend kept saying, "he is a ######"(rhymes with banker). She agreed and after I was called a ###### for a few times asked - "are you taking the piss?". They weren't and later that night I found out that they thought '######' meant a really handsome guy.

No Neeranam my old mate, she really did think you were a banker.

We all know how good the thais are at english pronounciations, don't we?

[mpdkorat]

Just my 2 Satang on this.

I was at a waterfall in Koh Chang and was as equally surprised as the OP about the huge difference in entry fee.

Its one of the very few things that annoys me here. Imagine if this was done in a Western country. The media would have a field day with it!

Also notice : English for opening hours and screw-farang price. Native language for Thai price, I wonder why they don't write Thai price in English

So this is the type of signs that farangs are accusing them for trying to hide the facts that there is a double pricing system? I thought farangs had logic?

At this waterfall last year I showed them my drivers licence and explained in Thai that I lived in Thailand and I was charged the local rate of 20 baht.

[sriracha john]

Just my 2 Satang on this.

I was at a waterfall in Koh Chang and was as equally surprised as the OP about the huge difference in entry fee.

Its one of the very few things that annoys me here. Imagine if this was done in a Western country. The media would have a field day with it!

Also notice : English for opening hours and screw-farang price. Native language for Thai price, I wonder why they don't write Thai price in English

So this is the type of signs that farangs are accusing them for trying to hide the facts that there is a double pricing system? I thought farangs had logic?

At this waterfall last year I showed them my drivers licence and explained in Thai that I lived in Thailand and I was charged the local rate of 20 baht.

Was that on a Tuesday when the lanky guard is there?

He'll accept those conditions, but if you go on a Thursday with the short bald guy, he won't accept anything less than a Thai National ID card.

On Wednesdays, it's hit or miss because sometimes the young woman with the ponytail is there and she'll accept drivers licenses, but on other Wednesdays, it's the old guy and he won't.

Mondays are definitely out because that's when the boss from Trat hangs around and he's real picky.

On Saturdays and Sundays, you'll usually get by because the lanky guy from Thursday is usually still around, but on weekends especially, it helps if you give the guy a couple Chang.

All the above is facetious of course, but it illustrates, in a very realistic manner, the tremendous ambiguity from one park to the next as well as the often-encountered ambiguity encountered within a single park depending on which staff is working and the mood they are in that I've seen on several occasions elsewhere. It's all so subjective and arbitrary and reflects so negatively on the entire National Park department.

[joecr]

...

And for citizenship, I am sure if you are willing to swap citizenship with a thai, he/she would be more than willing to guarantee you free entries to all national parks in Thailand for a lifetime. Guess why?

Please. Tell me where this mythical, poorly uninformed soul is....I would happily give him my American passport for his Thai citizenship. Wouldn't even think twice about it. Heck, I'd pay him for it also. And he'd still be getting the short shaft.

Think before you blather. If we could actually *GET* Thai citizenship, there'd be no need for us to sit here bitching about dual pricing. For those of us who have been here 10 years or more, it does start to get annoying after a while. Yes, we can suck it up for a few years, but at some point, the injustice of it all just boils over and we all wind up exploding.

I feel sorry for the poor ranger on Koh Samet who got an earful from me last Sunday. But hey, I managed to bite my tounge the 50 times before, so what do you expect? You can't keep it in forever.

The sad thing is not one of those guys who screwed me previously and didn't see me fulminate realize how lucky they were that my wrath didn't burst out at that time.

[qwertz]

Why not boycott these places en masse and publicise it? There are enough farang newspapers who'd print it. I never visit them anyway, for the reasons mentioned here. You expats have no cohesion there, consequently no recognition.

[soundman]

Why not boycott these places en masse and publicise it? There are enough farang newspapers who'd print it. I never visit them anyway, for the reasons mentioned here. You expats have no cohesion there, consequently no recognition.

Seriously, great point, however, IMHO us falangs can co-hese all we want & it would achieve absolutely sweet FA. The only way falangs can achieve anything in Thailand is to do it the thai way, with thai attitude, & therefore receiving condescending comments from thai people such as "look at him - he is becoming thai" (A little TIC of course).

Cheers,

Soundman.

[taxexile]

if you want to visit sam roi yodt park and not pay anything at all ,

then if you arrive at the south entrance from prajuap khiri khan , just tell them you arent stopping in the park but going straight through to pranburi.

if you are coming from the north (pranburi) , tell them you are not stopping but going straight through to prajuap

worked for me twice now , and cant tell you how good it felt.

Edited April 5, 2007 by taxexile

[sriracha john]

if you want to visit sam roi yodt park and not pay anything at all ,

then if you arrive at the south entrance from prajuap khiri khan , just tell them you arent stopping in the park but going straight through to pranburi.

if you are coming from the north (pranburi) , tell them you are not stopping but going straight through to prajuap

worked for me twice now , and cant tell you how good it felt.

NOW ya tell us....

oh well, at least then it was only 200

new years party on the beach....

Edited April 5, 2007 by sriracha john

[qwertz]

Why not boycott these places en masse and publicise it? There are enough farang newspapers who'd print it. I never visit them anyway, for the reasons mentioned here. You expats have no cohesion there, consequently no recognition.

Seriously, great point, however, IMHO us falangs can co-hese all we want & it would achieve absolutely sweet FA. The only way falangs can achieve anything in Thailand is to do it the thai way, with thai attitude, & therefore receiving condescending comments from thai people such as "look at him - he is becoming thai" (A little TIC of course).

Cheers,

Soundman.

You can only theorise until you actually try it. I think you're all living in your private bubbles and only come out now and then to socialise or have a day out, for which you're duly ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I do sympathise but I think you all sit still for things until they start to hurt. I also think you underestimate the importance of your joint contribution to the common good there. I wonder if you've ever calculated on a national scale how much foreign currency alone you all pump into LOS. It must run into billions of dollars per annum. You should be thinking about a national association for expats with an extra voice for all the guys sending money to support whole families. You know how money talks and you all have some, why not use it right?

[PaulUSA302]

I only spend about 4 weeks a year in Thailand and I try to avoid the double pricing places.

Already I pay more for Hotel, Taxi, clothes, food, drinks and services as if I am rich and money means nothing to me.... Here in the USA, I watch every penny and you are scolded for being money conscious in Thailand... it is as if they are saying "Shut up! Give us your money! And if you don't like it than too bad! And don't show us your anger!"

So now I come and enjoy my time sitting on the beach and am very picky as to how I spend my money. Now I only spend 1/4 of the money I spent on my previous holidays and I consider it my own personal victory to go home with more of my money than I had in the past!

[qwertz]

And if more of you thought like PaulUSA the locals would sooner or later get the message. They're not dumb when it comes to calculating profit and loss and they don't set enough by to weather much of a financial crisis.

[Pepe']

Why not go to a go go bar and get the best bang for your buck...

[qwertz]

Why not go to a go go bar and get the best bang for your buck...

Yo Pepe, amen to that, can't fault your logic there and the music's usually better.

[noungning]

Four-hundred baht? Really?! What a ripoff. I wonder if that applies to all foreigners. I mean, not just to farangs with Thai families but also to (non-ethnic Thai) Asians living here with their ethnic-Thai families?? By non-ethnic Thai Asians I mean, for instance, Tibetans, Mongolians, Nepalese, etc.

yes ALL foreigners! well with exception, if you speak thai fluently u may come to an exception. i was traveling in thailand last year and went to the site seeing areas and i noticed one place it was a wax museum in nakorn prathom, i read the sign 250baht for admission, i've also read the thai and it also said 250baht, my bf said oh you go ahead yourself i'll wait out here because he didn't want me to spend too much money for admission. but when i asked for 2 tickets, she said in thai, "100baht"! my bf and i were like huh?? lol

i'm not thai, but i read, write, and speak thai quite well. i am laotian, and i look thai i suppose. but i've seen many japanese, korean, and chinese tourists at the areas i was traveling and they were charged the same as all other "white skinned" foreigners. and from my conversations with plenty of ppl, they like ripping of the japanese tourists even more!! because they say japanese people are richer...?

Suffice it to say that if you make a real effort at assimilating with local norms, you will notice that more often than not, you are often treated better than the locals for the fact.

this is true, people that knew i was from the states treated me with alot of respect, it wasn't because i was from the states and they can peel away at my skin. they were just nice and wanted to know and be educated of various things of where i'm from. and sometimes i don't see the respect that is given those of the same background...

You use hiiya (heeya) in such a trivial complaint? Bet the Thais love that! Please, can a better Thai speaker than me confirm this, but I thought hiiya was a really, really bad insult. As far as I know it literally translates to "monitor lizard", but is the sort of thing that will get you a punch in the face if you say it to the wrong person. Again, my Thai is not very good at all, but I believe you want mai chai instead of mai dai

Edit - mai mee is "don't have"

yeah heeya [pronounced here-a] is a lizard, large in size like an iguana as it was explained to me.

lol well the why the poster said it is valid, though it's not grammatically correct but there are people that speaks that way...but the latter end of the statement is off... but i think your best bet is to speak normally and bargain. when i hear 300, i say 80

[Yorkie]

Khow Pravi Haan National Park.

This was on the Thai side. We were informed that a further Bht 200 per foreigner would be charged on the Khmer side.

We turned around.

[sriracha john]

On a positive note, I see from the sign that, for Thais, at least... that it rewards those that have remained positive for 60 years by admitting them for free. I guess those that have not been "up" for 60 years are relegated to the 20 baht fee.

[mark lamai]

love youse all.

so when you come to australia and have to pay AUD$200

to enter one of our cool parks, you will happily hand it over?

approx. equivalent of 2 days wages for a building worker.

[sbk]

You use hiiya (heeya) in such a trivial complaint? Bet the Thais love that! Please, can a better Thai speaker than me confirm this, but I thought hiiya was a really, really bad insult. As far as I know it literally translates to "monitor lizard", but is the sort of thing that will get you a punch in the face if you say it to the wrong person. Again, my Thai is not very good at all, but I believe you want mai chai instead of mai dai

Edit - mai mee is "don't have"

yeah heeya [pronounced here-a] is a lizard, large in size like an iguana as it was explained to me.

lol well the why the poster said it is valid, though it's not grammatically correct but there are people that speaks that way...but the latter end of the statement is off... but i think your best bet is to speak normally and bargain. when i hear 300, i say 80

Well, after reading this, I am no longer surprised when some farang gets the crap beaten out of him, or gets shot. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, esp in a country like Thailand.

It is NEVER justifiable or valid to use Ai Heah unless the guy is actually pointing a gun to your head, and even then it would probably just encourage him to pull the trigger.

To use it when arguing over such a trivial amount of money just proves to the Thai person that you deserve to pay more, frankly.

[lannarebirth]

Viseted both Ob Luang and Doi Inthanon National Parks today. I farang and 4 Thais and we paid zero at both parks. I really have to wonder what kind of antics are causing the discrimination some people claim

[sriracha john]

Viseted both Ob Luang and Doi Inthanon National Parks today. I farang and 4 Thais and we paid zero at both parks. I really have to wonder what kind of antics are causing the discrimination some people claim

Good luck trying to get 5 people into the 100 other National Parks... it ain't happening.

I will, however, have to add those 2 to the 24 other Parks I've been where no one got in for free....

As the common refrain goes, your mileage may vary... and not paying anything is certainly NOT the norm, be they Thai or farang.

Edited April 7, 2007 by sriracha john

[noungning]

You use hiiya (heeya) in such a trivial complaint? Bet the Thais love that! Please, can a better Thai speaker than me confirm this, but I thought hiiya was a really, really bad insult. As far as I know it literally translates to "monitor lizard", but is the sort of thing that will get you a punch in the face if you say it to the wrong person. Again, my Thai is not very good at all, but I believe you want mai chai instead of mai dai

Edit - mai mee is "don't have"

yeah heeya [pronounced here-a] is a lizard, large in size like an iguana as it was explained to me.

lol well the why the poster said it is valid, though it's not grammatically correct but there are people that speaks that way...but the latter end of the statement is off... but i think your best bet is to speak normally and bargain. when i hear 300, i say 80

Well, after reading this, I am no longer surprised when some farang gets the crap beaten out of him, or gets shot. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, esp in a country like Thailand.

It is NEVER justifiable or valid to use Ai Heah unless the guy is actually pointing a gun to your head, and even then it would probably just encourage him to pull the trigger.

To use it when arguing over such a trivial amount of money just proves to the Thai person that you deserve to pay more, frankly.

golly, i might've sounded like i've used heah before, but no i've never used it to thai ppl or in thailand as i can remember.

but yes i do bargain when i'm out shopping at the markets, and it does work! but again, people believes i'm thai.

[jayjayjayjay]

I asked the guard at the gate why i was being charged 400 Baht - compared to 20 baht for my Mrs. He pointed to a big sign that i missed that said 'foriegners charged 400 baht'.

Do you guys think this is about government policy, it's about the small guy finding his way to get his cut......... Do you really really think the guards hand over 400 baht for each farang to the Parks department. Think about it, 10 farangs per day (totally underestimated for most parks), 4,000 baht, dived this between, ... lets say, 6 officials that day ..... 666 baht each, not bad for being a security guard(that's an extra 20,000/mth on top of there 8-10,000 baht salaries) how else do you think Thai's like this can have a pickup truck!!!! ..... and since logging has slowed down over the years, not because of good controls, purely coz they have run out of trees.. where else are they going to fuel there habits from... the rich farangs.

[p_brownstone]

In recent months I have visited both Khao Yai and Doi Inthanon National Parks and in both instances I would have been charged Baht 400.- for entry, however I have PR and showed my little white book and was allowed in for Baht 20.- with no problems. (I was tempted to claim that, being over 60 I should actually be allowed in for Baht 10.- as Thais are once they attain that age, however I thought I might be pushing my luck!)

Regardless of the fact that it does not affect me personally , I am firmly against the practice of double pricing and actually make a point of commenting unfavourably on it whenever the opportunity arises; I believe it causes so much negative comment that the damage to the country’s image outweighs any small financial gains – especially when it is clearly seen as a Government approved practice.

Incidentally I have never tried to enter a private tourist attraction using my PR book and claiming the Thai price and I rather doubt that it would work – however I am in no rush to visit Safari World or the Crocodile Farm so “chang man” as we Thai speakers say!

Patrick

[Furbie]

In recent months I have visited both Khao Yai and Doi Inthanon National Parks and in both instances I would have been charged Baht 400.- for entry, however I have PR and showed my little white book and was allowed in for Baht 20.- with no problems. (I was tempted to claim that, being over 60 I should actually be allowed in for Baht 10.- as Thais are once they attain that age, however I thought I might be pushing my luck!)

Regardless of the fact that it does not affect me personally , I am firmly against the practice of double pricing and actually make a point of commenting unfavourably on it whenever the opportunity arises; I believe it causes so much negative comment that the damage to the country's image outweighs any small financial gains – especially when it is clearly seen as a Government approved practice.

Incidentally I have never tried to enter a private tourist attraction using my PR book and claiming the Thai price and I rather doubt that it would work – however I am in no rush to visit Safari World or the Crocodile Farm so "chang man" as we Thai speakers say!

Patrick

Oddly enough, simply speaking Thai at Dream World got me in for the local price - though I have to ask why Dream World needs double pricing, other than pure greed of course.

[p_brownstone]

Oddly enough, simply speaking Thai at Dream World got me in for the local price - though I have to ask why Dream World needs double pricing, other than pure greed of course.

One reason I don't really want to go to a private Tourist Attraction is that I can see absolutely NO justifcation for double pricing there.

There is an argument - not a good argument - that National Parks etc. are largely maintained by Taxes paid by Thais, hence the double pricing for Tourists since they pay no Tax here (OK I know some people will jump on that argument for various reasons, as I say, it's not a rationale that I accept in total either).

However there can be no such justification for double pricing in a private enterprise such as Dream World, the Crocodile Farm etc.; it's simply greed, taking advantage of a precedent set by Government policy in other areas.

Patrick

Edited April 10, 2007 by p_brownstone