How to build muscle when 60 years+?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, grifbel said:

Simply untrue unless you want a phony bulked u look to stare at in the mirror all day.  Lean muscle mass is much healthier and can be achieved through body weight exercise and other aerobic/anaerobic fitness. No need for weights. Look at boxers or Muay Thai.  Now get down and give me a 100 push ups

Spoken like someone who has no clue at all about muscle. Without progressive overload you don't get muscles. 

 

Its amazing what people believe. I can get from Bangkok to Pattaya walking too does not mean using a car is faster and better. 

 

Just because something can be done an other way does not make it the best or easiest way.

 

Lean muscle mass is no different from muscle mass bodybuilders have. Lean just means without fat. (do you actually know what your talking about)

 

Yes you can get some muscles from body-weight exercises but not much and the gains stop fast as its hard to use progressive overload with just body-weight. 

 

Its time for you to study a bit more and then come back. 

[robblok]

Just a basic explanation for all the people who think they know something but just dont.

 

The body does not like change and will only build muscle if its needed.

 

This means you have to challenge your body all the time, the moment you do more then last time the body stops making muscle. 

 

Bodyweight exercises can help at first to get to a certain level but its hard to make them heavier and then you have to keep cranking out reps and that just wont make any more muscle after a certain period.

 

Progressive overload is nothing more then making an exercise heavier while staying in a certain rep range (go to high and no muscle will be created so 100 push-ups.. wont do much). 

 

That is why weights are good because they are easy to add load and so are machines. 

 

Its just the fastest way to get muscle and after newbie gains needed.  Other things can help gain muscle but are just not as effective.

 

People should read the science behind it before commenting and thinking they know something. 

 

Stupid remarks like lean muscle from body-weights.. lean muscle is lean muscle.. no matter how you get it. Its not that you get lean muscle from body-weight exercises and not from something else. 

 

Bodybuilders are masters at building muscle.. its what they do. So give them some credit in figuring out what works best. Don't worry you wont look like a bodybuilder any day soon if you start using weights it takes time and dedication. But using weights will help you put on muscle faster then any other method. (also goes past limitations of bodyweight).

 

Of course stuff like food and recovery play a huge role too.

Edited January 16, 2020 by robblok

[grifbel]

On 1/2/2020 at 2:43 PM, robblok said:

It all depends on your goals, for real muscles a gym is still king.  Sure you can get some muscles doing stuff with resistance bands (newby gains) but it will soon max out. 

 

I mean there is a reason why athletes and bodybuilders go to a gym. Its much better but these guys have other goals then the average Thaivisa poster.

 

I prefer the gym as it works far better (for me) as anything else. But I have different goals too then the average Thaivisa poster. 

 

Just find the right tools for the job, if a lil firmness and maybe some small muscles is goal then you can do a lot. If you want to get there faster and get bigger then a gym is much better. 

 

(yes that is me with the sissie gloves)

 

 

Does not look good and is probably not healthy either.  Total body fitness is the way to go rather than working out so you can post some selfies.  Do some research and get back to us.

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, grifbel said:

Does not look good and is probably not healthy either.  Total body fitness is the way to go rather than working out so you can post some selfies.  Do some research and get back to us.

Again you have absolutely no clue about building muscle. This has nothing to do with how something looks. To get at my level you need to put in a huge amount of work so people don't have to worry to become like that at all. 

 

However if you want to add some muscle weights are the best way to do it. I don't workout to post selfies. I guess you missed the one of me being fat <deleted>. That is what weights did to me a total body transformation. Weights plus a good diet. 

 

You have no clue about what is healthy, you have no clue about how to build muscle. What do you know actually ?

[Tony125]

9 minutes ago, grifbel said:

Does not look good and is probably not healthy either.  Total body fitness is the way to go rather than working out so you can post some selfies.  Do some research and get back to us.

Doesn't  look good ? Seen a guy looking like that walking on 2nd road by massage parlors. Girl came out and said " I massage you for free!"  Did you see his before photo? I aplaud his dedication and effort. May be a little on the large size but not too extreme as he was already a large guy he just loss the fat and increased his muscle/strength.

He's done research and has been working out for a log time. Give you an example of what he's talking about. You should do squats every day ,the more the better .You will get stronger more flexable but will reach a peak. However if you do squats while holding dumbells, kettle bells or barbell your muscles will get stronger/bigger due to lifting heavier weight than just your body weight. You can tone with body weight and resistance bands give you more help but nothing beats free weights for building muscle. Can use home gym with weights or go to a gym for a lot more weights and machines that give more viriety.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Doesn't  look good ? Seen a guy looking like that walking on 2nd road by massage parlors. Girl came out and said " I massage you for free!"  Did you see his before photo? I aplaud his dedication and effort. May be a little on the large size but not too extreme as he was already a large guy he just loss the fat and increased his muscle/strength.

He's done research and has been working out for a log time. Give you an example of what he's talking about. You should do squats every day ,the more the better .You will get stronger more flexable but will reach a peak. However if you do squats while holding dumbells, kettle bells or barbell your muscles will get stronger/bigger due to lifting heavier weight than just your body weight. You can tone with body weight and resistance bands give you more help but nothing beats free weights for building muscle. Can use home gym with weights or go to a gym for a lot more weights and machines that give more viriety.

The picture makes me look really big (nice lights good angle plus everything flexed under weight). Sure I got some muscle but nowhere close to real top bodybuilders.

 

People really don't seem to understand that you need to increase effort all the time to get extra muscle. The easiest way is to load it with weights. The squat (if only bodyweight is available) might be done with one leg to make it heavier. But its so hard to make an exercise hard that way.

 

If its just about building muscle its all about overload rest and food. 

 

There is a lot of science behind how to grow muscle and bodybuilders know how to do it. So why not learn from them. I don't pretend to know it all as i still learn new things but I do know the basic principles.

 

Anyway i would never have gotten where i am if I had not changed my diet. Its a full package. Exercise without good diet does not work.

 

 

[rech]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Just a basic explanation for all the people who think they know something but just dont.

 

The body does not like change and will only build muscle if its needed.

 

This means you have to challenge your body all the time, the moment you do more then last time the body stops making muscle. 

 

Bodyweight exercises can help at first to get to a certain level but its hard to make them heavier and then you have to keep cranking out reps and that just wont make any more muscle after a certain period.

 

Progressive overload is nothing more then making an exercise heavier while staying in a certain rep range (go to high and no muscle will be created so 100 push-ups.. wont do much). 

 

That is why weights are good because they are easy to add load and so are machines. 

 

Its just the fastest way to get muscle and after newbie gains needed.  Other things can help gain muscle but are just not as effective.

 

People should read the science behind it before commenting and thinking they know something. 

 

Stupid remarks like lean muscle from body-weights.. lean muscle is lean muscle.. no matter how you get it. Its not that you get lean muscle from body-weight exercises and not from something else. 

 

Bodybuilders are masters at building muscle.. its what they do. So give them some credit in figuring out what works best. Don't worry you wont look like a bodybuilder any day soon if you start using weights it takes time and dedication. But using weights will help you put on muscle faster then any other method. (also goes past limitations of bodyweight).

 

Of course stuff like food and recovery play a huge role too.

 

 

Thank you for taking time to teach us about this.

 

 

 

 

[simon43]

testosterone injections twice a week.  My mental state is great and I feel great!

You may feel great temporarily, but if you need injections to feel this way, then your artificial health is not nearly as good as you think and is probably not sustainable.

 

 

 

 

I was diagnosed with low testosterone in my 20s. My father also had it and my son needs to be checked when he hits his teen years.  Low T meant ED problems all my life, but I still managed to father 4 kids ????.

 

In the 90s, I used to have slow-release T pills implanted under my skin near my kidneys.  Now, with T injections easily available, I go down that route.  I have annual full health checks/bloodwork and quarterly PSA/T bloodwork. 

 

As for Bradycardia (slow heart rate), I don't SUFFER from it, but BENEFIT from it!  A few years ago, before I embarked on a regular exercise routine, my resting heart rate was about 80 bpm and BP maybe 130/90.  I checked it just now and it's 50 bpm, blood pressure about 105/65, (no, I never ever feel faint).

 

Thanks for all the advice about building/maintaining muscle.

[simon43]

BTW - I completely screwed up the quote function in my post above, but can't change it.  Hope it makes sense.

[Tony125]

18 hours ago, simon43 said:

BTW - I completely screwed up the quote function in my post above, but can't change it.  Hope it makes sense.

https://www.stack.com/a/life-hack-buy-a-medium-weight-kettlebell?yptr=yahoo

[Tony125]

On 1/17/2020 at 6:14 AM, simon43 said:

On 1/17/2020 at 6:17 AM, simon43 said:

BTW - I completely screwed up the quote function in my post above, but can't change it.  Hope it makes sense.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/fitness/this-new-lifting-rule-will-help-to-add-inches-to-your-biceps/ar-BBZ5x77?li=BBnba9O

 

Below is a PM I sent you 3 years ago that you didn't read so Im posting to you now. Think it was bout your step daughter taking the drug mentioned

http://www.drugs.com/tramadol.html

She may say its sleeping pill but they may call it that as as a pain killer it will make you drowsy. Read the article can stop ones breathing.

[grifbel]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:40 PM, robblok said:

Again you have absolutely no clue about building muscle. This has nothing to do with how something looks. To get at my level you need to put in a huge amount of work so people don't have to worry to become like that at all. 

 

However if you want to add some muscle weights are the best way to do it. I don't workout to post selfies. I guess you missed the one of me being fat <deleted>. That is what weights did to me a total body transformation. Weights plus a good diet. 

 

You have no clue about what is healthy, you have no clue about how to build muscle. What do you know actually ?

LOL, clueless is as clueless does, to paraphrase Forrest Gump.

Building up a bunch of non-utilisable and non-functional muscle mass while training like a grunting pack mule in front of a mirror is the biggest waste of time in the pursuit of complete and total fitness and health.  Will also result in an imbalanced gait like a top heavy penguin, not to mention a range of circulatory issues.  Willing to bet you could not run 10km, cycle 100 km, swim 5k, skip 1 hour with heavy rope, survive even a single  Muay Thai training session, or do any basic stretching or flexibility training.  

Instead of donkey style fitness with a bunch of grunting and narcissistic egotistical mirror gazing like a Kardashian, do some aerobic/anerobic fitness and some flexibility training at home, and also train your mind.  You’ll thank me later.

Teaching moment over!

 

PS Anyone can go on wiki or google and get accurate information without suffering through your endless fitness proselytizing. 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by grifbel

[robblok]

1 minute ago, grifbel said:

LOL, clueless is as clueless does to paraphrase Forrest Gump.

Building up a bunch of non-utilizable and non-functional muscle mass while training like a brainless grunting pack mule in front of a mirror is the biggest waste of time in the pursuit of complete and total fitness and health.  Will also result in an imbalanced gait like a top heavy penguin, not to mention a range of circulatory issues.  Willing to bet you could not run 10km, cycle 100 km, swim 5k, skip 1 hour with heavy rope, survive even a single  Muay Thai training session, or do any basic stretching or flexibility training.  

Instead of donkey style fitness with a bunch of grunting and narcissistic egotistical mirror gazing like a Kardashian, do some aerobic/anerobic fitness and some flexibility training at home, and also train your mind.  You’ll thank me later.

Teaching moment over!

 

PS Anyone can go on wiki or google and get accurate information without suffering through your endless fitness proselytizing. 

 

First of my muscle is balanced and functional because I do compounds like dead lift and so on. Also my program includes cardio seems like a no brainer to have it in a program. Like i said you have no clue. 

 

Your one of those Muay Thai idiots who probably has had a few blows to the head too many.

 

For building muscle there is no better way to do it then bodybuilding. For defending yourself there are better sports then Muay Thai still not bad. Though I prefer to stay out of trouble no need to prove myself like those aggressive Muay Thai guys.

 

But everyone likes a different sports its not about what is the best but what you can keep doing. I would absolutely hate Muay Thai and the people who do it. Just not my thing like lifting weights is not your thing. People should do what they like and keeep doing.

 

The question was about building muscle (did the blows to the head impede your reading ability ?) 

 

I been training for years in a row, i wonder how many years of consistent training you got under your belt. Because that is what it is about in the end consistency.

[grifbel]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Because that is what it is about in the end consistency.

This seems to be about the first correct thing you have said. Consistency is indeed important.  Not sure for the need for all the personal attacks though.  Seems you are suffering from feelings of inadequacy and inferiority so wish to diminish others.  May explain the obsession with biceps.

Never done Muay Tai, but certainly impressed by the fitness and physique, especially compared to yours. 

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

I been training for years in a row,

Let me leave you with a bit of Einstein,

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, grifbel said:

This seems to be about the first correct thing you have said. Consistency is indeed important.  Not sure for the need for all the personal attacks though.  Seems you are suffering from feelings of inadequacy and inferiority so wish to diminish others.  May explain the obsession with biceps.

Never done Muay Tai, but certainly impressed by the fitness and physique, especially compared to yours. 

Let me leave you with a bit of Einstein,

Your the one attacking others not me I just respond in kind. 

 

I get great results no need to change. (not completely true of course i change once in a while to keep progressing). 

 

All my other things were correct too. If there was a contest between building muscle Muay Thai style or bodybuilding style the bodybuilder would win. I don't get it why that is so hard to admit. If it is about cardio the Muay Thai would probably win. 

 

Its like different tools for the job for building muscle, lifting weights with progressive overload. For cardio .. muay Thai.. for muscle.. certainly not Muay Thai.

 

Its hard for you to admit your wrong. 

[Tony125]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your the one attacking others not me I just respond in kind. 

 

I get great results no need to change. (not completely true of course i change once in a while to keep progressing). 

 

All my other things were correct too. If there was a contest between building muscle Muay Thai style or bodybuilding style the bodybuilder would win. I don't get it why that is so hard to admit. If it is about cardio the Muay Thai would probably win. 

 

Its like different tools for the job for building muscle, lifting weights with progressive overload. For cardio .. muay Thai.. for muscle.. certainly not Muay Thai.

 

Its hard for you to admit your wrong. 

Ignore his posts, the OP posted he wanted to build bigger arms and bigger muscles in general at his age. Wanted larger muscles and strength which as you and I both mentioned he could do with different methods but for greatest results he would need  some weights. OP even mentioned he had some but was suggested to get more once  he decided where he was going to settle  down.

[grifbel]

27 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your the one attacking others not me I just respond in kind. 

Simply not true, you are the one thinking you have a monopoly on the truth and telling others they do not have a "clue".

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

I get great results no need to change

That is your subjective conclusion.  As noted, non-functional and imbalanced proportion neither looks good nor is healthy.

 

29 minutes ago, robblok said:

All my other things were correct too.

Sorry, hate to bust your bubble of delusion, but nobody is correct all the time.  You got one point right about consistency.  The rest is self-serving nonsense.

 

To bring this discussion to a close, balanced total body and mind fitness is the goal, not padding your ego and papering over inadequacies with bigger biceps.  You come up short on pretty much all counts.

Final teaching moment over.  Cannot help you anymore.

[stephenterry]

Now I've had a successful hernia operation and, at 7 weeks after, back on the road to fitness. Fast walking and bodyweight cardio exercising helped me with flexibility and toning up my upper body. I still have a lot of lower loose skin to eradicate by my WFPB diet over the course of this year, though. 

 

Note: the body replaces all skin cells every three months.

 

Muscles have reacted well, I can feel them protest and now I've upped the ante by using very light 2 kilo weights to continue progress. I have no design or wish to become a bodybuilder, just a healthy fit person who could once again go swimming when the weather (and water) warms up. Back in the 1970's following achilles surgery, swimming was a great health benefit - and I achieved my target of swimming 1,000 miles over a five year period. Still have the badge on my trunks.   

 

I think it's a truism that a human body's muscles can only attain a certain level when utilising a healthy diet. To go further than just consuming extra (and unnecessary) red meat and protein drinks - as bodybuilders know - an increase in muscle mass is only achieved by taking steroids. 

 

So, on reflection, it seems to me that for older males, a far healthier regime is one of optimum nutrition and lean muscle tissue.  

[grifbel]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Now I've had a successful hernia operation and, at 7 weeks after, back on the road to fitness. Fast walking and bodyweight cardio exercising helped me with flexibility and toning up my upper body. I still have a lot of lower loose skin to eradicate by my WFPB diet over the course of this year, though. 

 

Note: the body replaces all skin cells every three months.

 

Muscles have reacted well, I can feel them protest and now I've upped the ante by using very light 2 kilo weights to continue progress. I have no design or wish to become a bodybuilder, just a healthy fit person who could once again go swimming when the weather (and water) warms up. Back in the 1970's following achilles surgery, swimming was a great health benefit - and I achieved my target of swimming 1,000 miles over a five year period. Still have the badge on my trunks.   

 

I think it's a truism that a human body's muscles can only attain a certain level when utilising a healthy diet. To go further than just consuming extra (and unnecessary) red meat and protein drinks - as bodybuilders know - an increase in muscle mass is only achieved by taking steroids. 

 

So, on reflection, it seems to me that for older males, a far healthier regime is one of optimum nutrition and lean muscle tissue.  

Have to agree with you on this.  I wish you well in your recovery!

[Tony125]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Now I've had a successful hernia operation and, at 7 weeks after, back on the road to fitness. Fast walking and bodyweight cardio exercising helped me with flexibility and toning up my upper body. I still have a lot of lower loose skin to eradicate by my WFPB diet over the course of this year, though. 

 

Note: the body replaces all skin cells every three months.

 

Muscles have reacted well, I can feel them protest and now I've upped the ante by using very light 2 kilo weights to continue progress. I have no design or wish to become a bodybuilder, just a healthy fit person who could once again go swimming when the weather (and water) warms up. Back in the 1970's following achilles surgery, swimming was a great health benefit - and I achieved my target of swimming 1,000 miles over a five year period. Still have the badge on my trunks.   

 

I think it's a truism that a human body's muscles can only attain a certain level when utilising a healthy diet. To go further than just consuming extra (and unnecessary) red meat and protein drinks - as bodybuilders know - an increase in muscle mass is only achieved by taking steroids. 

 

So, on reflection, it seems to me that for older males, a far healthier regime is one of optimum nutrition and lean muscle tissue.  

If you have read this post the OP is already taking steroids = Testosterone injections twice a week as he was diagnosed with low testesterone years ago and was prescribed by a Dr. He simply posted that at 60 what did he need to do to get bigger arms and muscles in general.  Was told he needed to have proper diet, maybe some creatine and protein drinks and heavier weights if he wanted larger muscles. Light weights, bands and aerobics will only tone not make larger muscles which is what he wants.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Now I've had a successful hernia operation and, at 7 weeks after, back on the road to fitness. Fast walking and bodyweight cardio exercising helped me with flexibility and toning up my upper body. I still have a lot of lower loose skin to eradicate by my WFPB diet over the course of this year, though. 

 

Note: the body replaces all skin cells every three months.

 

Muscles have reacted well, I can feel them protest and now I've upped the ante by using very light 2 kilo weights to continue progress. I have no design or wish to become a bodybuilder, just a healthy fit person who could once again go swimming when the weather (and water) warms up. Back in the 1970's following achilles surgery, swimming was a great health benefit - and I achieved my target of swimming 1,000 miles over a five year period. Still have the badge on my trunks.   

 

I think it's a truism that a human body's muscles can only attain a certain level when utilising a healthy diet. To go further than just consuming extra (and unnecessary) red meat and protein drinks - as bodybuilders know - an increase in muscle mass is only achieved by taking steroids. 

 

So, on reflection, it seems to me that for older males, a far healthier regime is one of optimum nutrition and lean muscle tissue.  

Sorry but you have no clue if you say that you can only get muscles when you use steroids. That is simply not true and something people who can't get muscle often say.

 

You can build muscle without steroids, steroids are only needed (if you can call it that) if you want to go beyond your genetic levels. Nothing wrong with red meat and protein at all if it is to get to the 1.6 gram per kg of body-weight (scientific tests prove this). I use protein powders to keep my total calories down while making sure i get enough proteins. Its easy its not better or worse then other proteins. Ok its better then plant proteins but that is general knowledge.

 

I don't get it why people worry about looking like a bodybuilder, that does not happen over night. In fact it wont happen without working out at an intensity that most cant handle and a good program and also good diet. (need to eat enough and the right stuff)

[robblok]

33 minutes ago, grifbel said:

Simply not true, you are the one thinking you have a monopoly on the truth and telling others they do not have a "clue".

That is your subjective conclusion.  As noted, non-functional and imbalanced proportion neither looks good nor is healthy.

 

Sorry, hate to bust your bubble of delusion, but nobody is correct all the time.  You got one point right about consistency.  The rest is self-serving nonsense.

 

To bring this discussion to a close, balanced total body and mind fitness is the goal, not padding your ego and papering over inadequacies with bigger biceps.  You come up short on pretty much all counts.

Final teaching moment over.  Cannot help you anymore.

I just know more about building muscle then most and that was what the question about. Not total fitness like you are describing (reading is not your strong suit) .  I also have no imbalances as i have a good program. 

 

What is non functional ? could you explain what you mean by that ? All my muscles are functional and deliver great power. You can't get big without getting strong too. It is possible to be strong without being big.. (up to a certain level). If someone can pull over 200 kg from the floor with a deadlift then for sure he is big too and his muscles fully functioning. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sorry but you have no clue if you say that you can only get muscles when you use steroids. That is simply not true and something people who can't get muscle often say.

 

You can build muscle without steroids, steroids are only needed (if you can call it that) if you want to go beyond your genetic levels. Nothing wrong with red meat and protein at all if it is to get to the 1.6 gram per kg of body-weight (scientific tests prove this). I use protein powders to keep my total calories down while making sure i get enough proteins. Its easy its not better or worse then other proteins. Ok its better then plant proteins but that is general knowledge.

 

I don't get it why people worry about looking like a bodybuilder, that does not happen over night. In fact it wont happen without working out at an intensity that most cant handle and a good program and also good diet. (need to eat enough and the right stuff)

Rob, to be clear, I did assert that to go further than one's muscle building limit, steroids are needed.  We both agree on that, and that muscles can be built up to a certain level by lifting weights. No divergence there.

 

As for protein, it's a scientifically proven fact that sufficient protein for the bodily daily needs would be be attained by following a whole food plant-based diet, as are other essential nutrients that animal meat products cannot provide. Unfortunately, the premise that high protein consumption is necessary is a misguided fallacy promoted by the meat and dairy food industry to maintain their profit line. That is a truism. The reason they don't support plant-based protein is there's no money in promoting high protein content of:

 

 

1. Seitan. Seitan is a popular protein source for many vegetarians and vegans. ...
2. Tofu, Tempeh and Edamame. ...
3. Lentils. ...
4. Chickpeas and Most Varieties of Beans. ...
5. Nutritional Yeast. ...
6. Spelt and Teff. ...
7. Hempseed. ...
8. Green Peas.

 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Rob, to be clear, I did assert that to go further than one's muscle building limit, steroids are needed.  We both agree on that, and that muscles can be built up to a certain level by lifting weights. No divergence there.

 

As for protein, it's a scientifically proven fact that sufficient protein for the bodily daily needs would be be attained by following a whole food plant-based diet, as are other essential nutrients that animal meat products cannot provide. Unfortunately, the premise that high protein consumption is necessary is a misguided fallacy promoted by the meat and dairy food industry to maintain their profit line. That is a truism. The reason they don't support plant-based protein is there's no money in promoting high protein content of:

 

 

1. Seitan. Seitan is a popular protein source for many vegetarians and vegans. ...
2. Tofu, Tempeh and Edamame. ...
3. Lentils. ...
4. Chickpeas and Most Varieties of Beans. ...
5. Nutritional Yeast. ...
6. Spelt and Teff. ...
7. Hempseed. ...
8. Green Peas.

 

 

Good that we agree about the muscle building. I get tired of people always thinking that steroids are needed and that if someone has muscle its because of steroids.

 

I am not sure what you consider high protein, 1.6 gram per kg of bodyweight is not that much at all. (based on 2000 cals and a 90 kg guy) that is about 25% of the total food intake.

 

I disagree about plant based. I think best is eating lots of veggies AND meat. Depending of course on what kind of meat how it is prepared. But nothing wrong with chicken pork or beef at all if you cook it yourself. 

 

I think that vegans always try to push meat vs veggies but forget you can have the best of both worlds too.

 

The fact is that whole proteins are needed and animal proteins are more often full proteins then vegetables. It can be done with just vegetables alone just takes more effort. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by robblok

[grifbel]

5 hours ago, Tony125 said:

If you have read this post the OP is already taking steroids = Testosterone injections twice a week as he was diagnosed with low testesterone years ago and was prescribed by a Dr.

Steroids = testosterone???? False.  You sound suspiciously like the other fitness troll on here (LOL), right down to the posting of inaccurate and misleading information.

Allow me to share a teaching moment with you, but you only get one, unlike the other poster who I gave up on after 2 attempts.

https://www.webmd.com/men/qa/what-is-the-difference-between-testosterone-replacement-and-performanceenhancing-steroids

It's true that anabolic steroids used by some bodybuilders and athletes contain testosterone or chemicals that act like testosterone.

The difference is that doses used in testosterone replacement only achieve physiologic (natural) levels of hormone in the blood. The testosterone forms some athletes use illegally are in much higher doses, and often combined ("stacked") with other substances that boost the overall muscle-building (anabolic) effect

 

 

[robblok]

16 hours ago, grifbel said:

Steroids = testosterone???? False.  You sound suspiciously like the other fitness troll on here (LOL), right down to the posting of inaccurate and misleading information.

Allow me to share a teaching moment with you, but you only get one, unlike the other poster who I gave up on after 2 attempts.

https://www.webmd.com/men/qa/what-is-the-difference-between-testosterone-replacement-and-performanceenhancing-steroids

It's true that anabolic steroids used by some bodybuilders and athletes contain testosterone or chemicals that act like testosterone.

The difference is that doses used in testosterone replacement only achieve physiologic (natural) levels of hormone in the blood. The testosterone forms some athletes use illegally are in much higher doses, and often combined ("stacked") with other substances that boost the overall muscle-building (anabolic) effect

 

 

Wow you actually came up with something true. Your learning maybe once you will see the light too about what is the fasted and best way to build muscles.

 

But testosterone is a steroid no way around it and yes its all about the dosage. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by robblok

[stephenterry]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:53 AM, robblok said:

Good that we agree about the muscle building. I get tired of people always thinking that steroids are needed and that if someone has muscle its because of steroids.

 

I am not sure what you consider high protein, 1.6 gram per kg of bodyweight is not that much at all. (based on 2000 cals and a 90 kg guy) that is about 25% of the total food intake.

 

I disagree about plant based. I think best is eating lots of veggies AND meat. Depending of course on what kind of meat how it is prepared. But nothing wrong with chicken pork or beef at all if you cook it yourself. 

 

I think that vegans always try to push meat vs veggies but forget you can have the best of both worlds too.

 

The fact is that whole proteins are needed and animal proteins are more often full proteins then vegetables. It can be done with just vegetables alone just takes more effort. 

Wrong. Complete fallacy, see below. The scientifically proven fact is that plant based whole foods, as well as meat, contain all 9 essential amino acids, as well as non-essential nutrients. These acids are utilised in the intestines as protein, not absorbed in the stomach/gut.

 

Excess amino acids will be stored in the body, so there's no way any plant based nutrition regime would have insufficient protein PROVIDING enough Calories are consumed to reach the required gram per kilo of bodyweight - same as meat. The fallacy rationale is mistakenly understood in that owing to low calorie content of vegetables, a higher consumption weight would be required than meat - nothing else is relevant.  

 

Rich sources of amino acids: Eggs, turkey, lamb - and God bless my underpants - watercress, seaweed, beans, spinach, legumes, broccoli, sesame seeds, hemp seeds, chia seeds, soy, peanuts, whole grains, figs, avocado, apples, sprouted grains and seeds, blueberries, cranberries, oranges and apricots.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Wrong. Complete fallacy, see below. The scientifically proven fact is that plant based whole foods, as well as meat, contain all 9 essential amino acids, as well as non-essential nutrients. These acids are utilised in the intestines as protein, not absorbed in the stomach/gut.

 

Excess amino acids will be stored in the body, so there's no way any plant based nutrition regime would have insufficient protein PROVIDING enough Calories are consumed to reach the required gram per kilo of bodyweight - same as meat. The fallacy rationale is mistakenly understood in that owing to low calorie content of vegetables, a higher consumption weight would be required than meat - nothing else is relevant.  

 

Rich sources of amino acids: Eggs, turkey, lamb - and God bless my underpants - watercress, seaweed, beans, spinach, legumes, broccoli, sesame seeds, hemp seeds, chia seeds, soy, peanuts, whole grains, figs, avocado, apples, sprouted grains and seeds, blueberries, cranberries, oranges and apricots.

Eh its just that SOME plant proteins are complete not all. That is why its harder. Why make it hard when you can just add some meat to your diet and get even healthier as just plants alone. Meat + loads of veggies is healthier then veggies alone. Far easier to get everything from meat and as long as you don't eat the wrong meats  and eat loads of veggies your off far better.

 

So it takes more effort, never said it cant be done.

But you explain to me how a diet based on vegetables with some meat is not better then one based on vegetables alone. So both eat the same but the meat group just adds a bit of meat. Seems far better as you get even more nutrients in and easier then veggies alone.

 

I wonder why vegans cant accept that they will have to put in more effort to get the same stuff compared to people who eat meats and veggies. They only seem to want to compare to people who have an unhealthy diet.

[stephenterry]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Eh its just that SOME plant proteins are complete not all. That is why its harder. Why make it hard when you can just add some meat to your diet and get even healthier as just plants alone. Meat + loads of veggies is healthier then veggies alone. Far easier to get everything from meat and as long as you don't eat the wrong meats  and eat loads of veggies your off far better.

 

So it takes more effort, never said it cant be done.

But you explain to me how a diet based on vegetables with some meat is not better then one based on vegetables alone. So both eat the same but the meat group just adds a bit of meat. Seems far better as you get even more nutrients in and easier then veggies alone.

 

I wonder why vegans cant accept that they will have to put in more effort to get the same stuff compared to people who eat meats and veggies. They only seem to want to compare to people who have an unhealthy diet.

rob, it's been scientifically proven for over 40 years that eating meat products is a correlation and possible causation towards the risk of contracting at least one of the top three serious diseases known to modern society - arterial blockage, strokes, and cancers. The mortality rates have been annually increasing - can't blame plant based foods for that.

 

The reason why the gigantic food industries continue to extensively promote meat and dairy products is that there's no money to be made promoting Broccoli or other plant based foods. It's also factual, in that they have the clout and power to 'persuade' Congress/government politicians to avoid upsetting the gravy train, even though thousands are risking health by eating such products. . 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The reason why the gigantic food industries continue to extensively promote meat and dairy products is that there's no money to be made promoting Broccoli or other plant based foods. 

There was me thinking it was because I like the taste of meat and dairy, and dislike the taste of broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, etc.

 

Did I mention the vegan group I sometimes cycle with, who need to inject vitamins to help them get through the day, that doesn't seem very healthy to me.

Edited January 25, 2020 by BritManToo