Bars And Internet Shops Being Raided!

[bendix]

Why shouldn't the authorities raid businesses using pirated software. It's completely appropriate.

What a load of bull, it is not appropriate for a government to run the errands of big US businesses.

Try reading my second post. I'll spell it out very clearly for you.

Software development companies act either on their own or through the Busines Software Alliance in Thailand. They hire law firms to protect their IP rights. The law firms organise and pay for customs and police to conduct the raids, seize countfeit goods and prosecute (occasionally) those people convicted if IP theft (which is against the law).

Why is that wrong?

Who else should seek to uphold and administer the law except for . . . well . . the agents of the law?

What a bizarre notion, I know.

Edited April 2, 2007 by bendix

[soundman]

Why shouldn't the authorities raid businesses using pirated software. It's completely appropriate.

What a load of bull, it is not appropriate for a government to run the errands of big US businesses.

Try reading my second post. I'll spell it out very clearly for you.

Software development companies act either on their own or through the Busines Software Alliance in Thailand. They hire law firms to protect their IP rights. The law firms organise and pay for customs and police to conduct the raids, seize countfeit goods and prosecute (occasionally) those people convicted if IP theft (which is against the law).

Why is that wrong?

Who else should seek to uphold and administer the law except for . . . well . . the agents of the law?

What a bizarre notion, I know.

Well who exactly is going to administer the law? Some govt. department???

I walked into the local OBT office last week to pick up some bank guarantees for the family business. I had a good look at all the PC's in the office. I noticed they were all running pirated windows xp OS by "Illusion". The same version availble in Pan Thip, or other IT centres around the country.

Who is going to police the "police"????

Cheers,

Soundman.

[The Professor]

If someone invests a lot of cash to open and run a net cafe, why not get legit copies of windows?

[Jet Gorgon]

Well who exactly is going to administer the law? Some govt. department???

I walked into the local OBT office last week to pick up some bank guarantees for the family business. I had a good look at all the PC's in the office. I noticed they were all running pirated windows xp OS by "Illusion". The same version availble in Pan Thip, or other IT centres around the country.

Who is going to police the "police"????

Cheers,

Soundman.

How can you tell they are pirated versions just by looking? Crock, Soundman.

[jeebusjones]

Well who exactly is going to administer the law? Some govt. department???

I walked into the local OBT office last week to pick up some bank guarantees for the family business. I had a good look at all the PC's in the office. I noticed they were all running pirated windows xp OS by "Illusion". The same version availble in Pan Thip, or other IT centres around the country.

Who is going to police the "police"????

Cheers,

Soundman.

How can you tell they are pirated versions just by looking? Crock, Soundman.

He did mention the "by Illusion." It's not a crock. If Windows is pirated, you'll sometimes see it in the taskbar after every program's name, or in the title bar of Internet Explorer. It will just be the name of the person/group that cracked the software to be copied. "Illusion" is a version that seems to be very popular in Thailand.

So yes, it is possible to know if it's pirated just by looking.

Also, after a time Windows will discover that it isn't a genuine copy. Then you'll have a little logo in the bottom right system tray that looks like a blue star. This symbol is to indicate that Windows is counterfeit.

Edited April 2, 2007 by jeebusjones

[Tyree D.]

I get Windows updates like everyone else, but now it wants me to install this program that checks to see if my Windows is legit then disables it if it's not. screw that.

[jEFFREYk44]

so if the gov can allow software piracy it can not allow medical piracy?

I know, there are poor HIV people and all, but when one thing is right, why is the other wrong?

Where are standards?

[ronw]

I get Windows updates like everyone else, but now it wants me to install this program that checks to see if my Windows is legit then disables it if it's not. screw that.

The program is called "Widows genuine advantage"...and is spyware....you may be asked to download it, but even if you refuse, it will somehow get onto your computer...then tell you that the OS is fake.....and a while later, your system will crash....

[cdnvic]

I get Windows updates like everyone else, but now it wants me to install this program that checks to see if my Windows is legit then disables it if it's not. screw that.

The program is called "Widows genuine advantage"...and is spyware....you may be asked to download it, but even if you refuse, it will somehow get onto your computer...then tell you that the OS is fake.....and a while later, your system will crash....

It's not spyware You can avoid it by disabling automatic updates and manually downloading security updates from Windows update.

Running a legit copy is the easiest way to deal with it. I hardly ever notice WGA.

[Sing_Sling]

so if the gov can allow software piracy it can not allow medical piracy?

I know, there are poor HIV people and all, but when one thing is right, why is the other wrong?

Where are standards?

Are you saying that Thailand's policies are hypocritical?

[bendix]

Who is going to police the "police"????

Cheers,

Soundman.

Well, you can if you want to. Why don't you call the Business Software Alliance and report it. Google for the details. As I said before, they usually reward whistleblowers following a successful investigation. Good luck with that.

I'm not saying the system is right, or fair. Frankly, I know the BSA very well and they are sensible and only fight the battles they are likely to win and - indeed - get a payout from. I would imagine it would be much easier to get a satisfactory resolution from a large or mid-size corporation scared of the impact of a prosecution on its brand and reputation, than it would from the cash-strapped police.

Realpolitick, my friend. Realpolitick.

[bendix]

so if the gov can allow software piracy it can not allow medical piracy?

I know, there are poor HIV people and all, but when one thing is right, why is the other wrong?

Where are standards?

The government does not 'allow' software piracy. Official policy is very much against it and in favour of protecting IP rights. Of course, official policy and on the ground practice can often be too different things.

As for the medical issue; Thailand is well within its rights - under both WHO regulations and, indeed, section 51 of the Thai Patents Act - to circumvent orignators' patents if it is deemed that the costs of doing otherwise is too high for the health budget and will deprive Thai citizens of access to essential medication. In that event, it is within its rights to go to places like China or India for cheaper generics. This is common practice in many poorer countries, including most of Africa and parts of Asia and is endorsed in WHO conventions.

The current debate is not about what Thailand has done; it's more about is Thailand 'poor' enough to justify the action.

And, besides, how can anyone compare breaching copyright to ensure it's citizens get essential medicine to breaching copyright so some loutish kids can play computer games or have cyber sex?

[richard10365]

I think if Mr. Gates wants to do business here in Thailand he should drop his prices to reflect what the average Thai person makes in a year as compared to what an average American makes in a year.

I think he will find more people buying his software if he did.

Until then, I'll just do what most Thai and Thai government agencies do in Thailand. Get my Operating System and updates from Pantip Plaza.

I've had too many problems with Windows to go investing a lot of money in something that constantly needs upgrading. Imagine buying a car you constantly had to take back to the dealer to fix things that were broken. If they put out a product that lasted a few years it might be worth buying. I have purchased legit copies of Windows before but now a days it's just not worth it.

[Heng]

Some of my friends over at Pinkerton are also involved in these raids. They also do raids on the fake bags, jeans, shirts, etc. factories as well.

Piracy is stealing. Being poor or greedy is no excuse to steal.

[cdnvic]

Get my Operating System and updates from Pantip Plaza.

I've had too many problems with Windows to go investing a lot of money in something that constantly needs upgrading. Imagine buying a car you constantly had to take back to the dealer to fix things that were broken. If they put out a product that lasted a few years it might be worth buying. I have purchased legit copies of Windows before but now a days it's just not worth it.

Ok, so you admit you're a thief, yet you complain about the quality of the product you steal?

I suppose if you stole a car you'd be complaining about the wipers causing streaks and perhaps if that was fixed you may pay in the future?

A thief is a thief, no excuses.

[richard10365]

Get my Operating System and updates from Pantip Plaza.

I've had too many problems with Windows to go investing a lot of money in something that constantly needs upgrading. Imagine buying a car you constantly had to take back to the dealer to fix things that were broken. If they put out a product that lasted a few years it might be worth buying. I have purchased legit copies of Windows before but now a days it's just not worth it.

Ok, so you admit you're a thief, yet you complain about the quality of the product you steal?

I suppose if you stole a car you'd be complaining about the wipers causing streaks and perhaps if that was fixed you may pay in the future?

A thief is a thief, no excuses.

I'm not making excuses. If it makes you feel better to brand me as a thief, then by all means feel free. It's only your opinion and that really doesn't mean much. Your just mad because you paid a lot of money for a working verions of Windows and I got my working version of Vista for 120 baht. You know what they say about when in Rome.

I never complained about the product I stole but I did complain about the Microsoft Windows versions I purchased legally. Since the legal versions didn't work well, I will steal mine from Pantip.

But if I legally purchase a product that is legally sold from a legal business in Thailand am I really stealing? I suppose if I ran in the store and ran out with a copy of windows without paying then I might be charged with a crime.

I pay for the product so in reality, I'm not stealing no more than if I bought a camoflouge pants with U.S. Army on them. (U.S. Army is copyrighted by the U.S. Army.) Most Thai soldiers have items with U.S. Army on it as well. By your definition, they are theifs as well.

Oh well, we can't arrest everyone. I will have to live with my shame and my 120 baht working version of Windows Vista.

[cdnvic]

Actually, I didn't brand you a thief, the dictionary does.

[bendix]

But if I legally purchase a product that is legally sold from a legal business in Thailand am I really stealing? I suppose if I ran in the store and ran out with a copy of windows without paying then I might be charged with a crime.

Point of order. You havent legally purchased a product. It isnt legally sold. And those businesses aren't legal.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of this, but even if you're not stealing you are - at least - purchasing stolen goods. Technically, the vendor has stolen the intellectual property by making unauthorised copies, and is illegally selling them to you.

However, please don't stop. It's keeping the law firm at which I work in the luxurious manner to which we have all become used.

Edited April 3, 2007 by bendix

[Sing_Sling]

Umm, Richard. You are on a losing argument here . . . best to simply let it die off.

[Crow Boy]

But if I legally purchase a product that is legally sold from a legal business in Thailand am I really stealing? I suppose if I ran in the store and ran out with a copy of windows without paying then I might be charged with a crime.

If you willingly pay for an item that you know or should reasonably know is counterfeit or stolen you have received stolen goods and that is a crime. The claim by visitors that the Rolex watch they bought for $30 isn't a crime because they didn't know it doesn't hold - ignorance of the law is not a plea in court. The easiest way to stop illegal purchase of these items bought are to sieze them at Customs on arrival back at the home country and prosecute the PURCHASER. If there is no market there is no supply. qed.

People coming into Austrlia where all the luggage is automatically scanned are being warned of the breach and the goods confiscated - the next step is to prosecute.

I pay for the product so in reality, I'm not stealing no more than if I bought a camoflouge pants with U.S. Army on them. (U.S. Army is copyrighted by the U.S. Army.) Most Thai soldiers have items with U.S. Army on it as well. By your definition, they are theifs as well.

Oh well, we can't arrest everyone. I will have to live with my shame and my 120 baht working version of Windows Vista.

You are a thief and I am sure you would not have the same attitude if someone broke into your house and took your legit laptop with the pirated software - You would say they stole from you and this is exactly the same thing that you are doing.

By your claim that you refuse to purchase something that is broken then that is fine - don't buy it but don't steal it - don't use it. Find an open source option instead. In our office we use opensource alternatives for all the Microsoft products except the Operating System - for that we purchase legitimate licenced copies. Any person found with non legal copies are arbitarily fired and have the option to discuss it with the police if they so wish.

BTW the US Military supplies arms, clothing, and supplies including vehicles - you may notice if you get your head out of your ar## that some to the trucks (they are the big green ones filled with soldiers) are LEFT hand drive - they are in many cases obsolete and either given by various countries including the US or sold cheap here. Some are left over from the Vietnam days but they are the minority.

CB

[jeffrosner]

If you do not know what your rights are, you have none.

Ask the guy who owns the Dum phone shop, he turned on video cameras and demanded identification and a warrant from the gun-holding criminals (cops).

The same crap with the SPA goes on in America. You can't come into my home or business without a search warrant. If you don't have one, then you are trespassing and are lucky I don't shoot you.

I don't give a $hit if you are a cop or not, if you have no proper process then you are no better than any criminal coming to steal from me. Cops have no protection in America when they work outside the law.

What rights do Thai People have? They must have some otherwise the 6 idiots who entered the Dum Phone Shop would have smashed his video cameras and then smashed his face.

Comments?

[bendix]

Comments?

[/size][/size]

No comment. Just a suggestion. Take a couple of aspirins, and go and sit in a nice dark room. Breathe deeply, and relax.

You'll feel much better, believe me.

[jeebusjones]

A few months ago I purchased a new lap top from IT City at Siam Paragon. IT City is a fairly reputable shop in a relatively upscale location.

The people in IT City kindly installed a pirated version of Windows XP professional on my laptop, free of charge. They also added pirated copies of Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Office, and a few others. I didn't ask for any of these things.

My PC was purchased from a shop at Pantip Plaze over a year ago. Despite the "Authentic Windows" stickers on it, recently I discovered the PC has pirated Windows XP also.

Piracy is a part of life in Thailand. No matter how you feel about it, if you use any computers or software in Thailand, chances are you've used pirated software at some point or another.

[cdnvic]

A few months ago I purchased a new lap top from IT City at Siam Paragon. IT City is a fairly reputable shop in a relatively upscale location.

The people in IT City kindly installed a pirated version of Windows XP professional on my laptop, free of charge. They also added pirated copies of Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Office, and a few others. I didn't ask for any of these things.

My PC was purchased from a shop at Pantip Plaze over a year ago. Despite the "Authentic Windows" stickers on it, recently I discovered the PC has pirated Windows XP also.

Piracy is a part of life in Thailand. No matter how you feel about it, if you use any computers or software in Thailand, chances are you've used pirated software at some point or another.

Yes, some people get defrauded into buying a computer with a pirated copy of windows on it. A way around that is to insist on being given the OEM disk, and it's serial number should be on the receipt. This gives you a leg to stand on when appealing to Microsoft that you are the true owner of the license key.

You should also consult http://www.microsoft.com/thailand/cleanshop/ to find trusted dealers where you won't get any fakes.

As for the unlicensed Photoshop and Office copies, they can be dealt with by using the add/remove programs in the control panel. (you did that right?)

Edited April 3, 2007 by cdnvic

[jeffrosner]

Comments?

[/size][/size]

No comment. Just a suggestion. Take a couple of aspirins, and go and sit in a nice dark room. Breathe deeply, and relax.

You'll feel much better, believe me.

Didn't you just claim to be a Laaaaaawwwwwyer or work in some lawwwwwr firm? No comments? When confronted with something that goes against your beliefs, is this your response? Is your typical tactic that of making me appear to be off the wall in need of a nap?

I presented you with fact, that can be backed up with case law but if you choose to tuck tail and run, that is your right. I hadn't expected much else.

Maybe we need a thread on Lawwwwyers. Are they are as venomous and vile here in Thailand as their counterparts in America and England. Just a thought.

JR

Edited April 3, 2007 by jeffrosner

[raro]

Coming back to the Linux aternative: Are there any Linux user groups in or around Pattaya?

I am VERY interested learning more about Linux, I tried to install Suse 10.0 before and would use it without hesitation on a stand-alone computer. However, I did not manage to get two comps to talk to each other...

Is Ubuntu easier to set up for networking?

[jeffrosner]

You will find Ubuntu much easier to network.

[KhunMarco]

If you do not know what your rights are, you have none.

Ask the guy who owns the Dum phone shop, he turned on video cameras and demanded identification and a warrant from the gun-holding criminals (cops).

The same crap with the SPA goes on in America. You can't come into my home or business without a search warrant. If you don't have one, then you are trespassing and are lucky I don't shoot you.

I don't give a $hit if you are a cop or not, if you have no proper process then you are no better than any criminal coming to steal from me. Cops have no protection in America when they work outside the law.

What rights do Thai People have? They must have some otherwise the 6 idiots who entered the Dum Phone Shop would have smashed his video cameras and then smashed his face.

Comments?

Yes , I can read at the regular size, thanks

edit:spelling

Edited April 3, 2007 by KhunMarco

[Crow Boy]

If you do not know what your rights are, you have none.

Ask the guy who owns the Dum phone shop, he turned on video cameras and demanded identification and a warrant from the gun-holding criminals (cops).

The same crap with the SPA goes on in America. You can't come into my home or business without a search warrant. If you don't have one, then you are trespassing and are lucky I don't shoot you.

I don't give a $hit if you are a cop or not, if you have no proper process then you are no better than any criminal coming to steal from me. Cops have no protection in America when they work outside the law.

What rights do Thai People have? They must have some otherwise the 6 idiots who entered the Dum Phone Shop would have smashed his video cameras and then smashed his face.

Comments?

And another well constructed, considered, and constructive post is lobbed like a grenade onto TV.

Hint: Jeffrosner - people listen to what you say not how big you type - most grade schoolers grow out of the need for big fonts fairly quickly. If you want people to review your comments try doing it rationally and leave the hysterics out of it.

CB

[jasreeve17]

I get Windows updates like everyone else, but now it wants me to install this program that checks to see if my Windows is legit then disables it if it's not. screw that.

The program is called "Widows genuine advantage"...and is spyware....you may be asked to download it, but even if you refuse, it will somehow get onto your computer...then tell you that the OS is fake.....and a while later, your system will crash....

Is this a microsoft program?

My computer got this (I bought a new acer from a main showroom, and didn't realise that they ship out their products with fake software) and I felt that it was a kind or windows "undercover" program. Microsoft's idea to get back at the piracy cheats?

- If so, wouldn't it break some Thai laws? The internet is controlled at a national level; look at lotteries / gambling sites / games sites, etc.

I have zero knowledge of computers, and it's a complete guess. Please don't slate me if the idea is stupid.

I can understand why microsoft would do this (I used to manage and license a set of patents.) to defend their products, but I did feel a bit cheated by the Acer company who put me in this compromised position. Can you imagine Sony selling their products with fake software...

(I know, pay peanuts... next time I'll pay more and check that the software is original.)

Edited April 3, 2007 by jasreeve17