33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who does "he" refer to? If it's me ( he quoted my post ) either provide links to where that is so, or stop telling lies.

 

Ha..numerous threads.

 

You have been on pretty much every thread on this topic.Same stuff different day.

On 12/31/2019 at 9:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to understand how a fire can get that close to a population center without the chainsaws and bulldozers removing the fuel BEFORE it could be a problem. Do they not have chainsaws, bulldozers and people to use them in that town, or is there some reason they could not attempt to save the town?

You obviously have never experienced country towns in Australia and what they do and dont have. Keep your comments to yourself until you are grown enough to experience before commenting.

1 hour ago, Ventenio said:

If you are an Aussie..... what do you think about having a fireworks display??   of course i think it was dumb, but i will listen to people who know more about it than i do.....

Well..they had their little fireworks display for  (about 60 seconds) for the little kiddies in our town and then the boxes were passed around for the volunteer firies..who,of course,have families and properties of their own.

 

i have never seen so much money stuffed into the boxes.."C'mon Aussie..c'mon,c'mon.."

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by Odysseus123

20 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Well..they had their little fireworks display for  (about 60 seconds) for the little kiddies in our town and then the boxes were passed around for the volunteer firies..who,of course,have families and properties of their own.

 

i have never seen so much money stuffed into the boxes.."C'mon Aussie..c'mon,c'mon.."

Watched the Sydney show, a middle finger for Scomo during the entertainment and over a million $ raised.

 

4 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Watched the Sydney show, a middle finger for Scomo during the entertainment and over a million $ raised.

 

A middle finger scomo.... why ?

absolute tragic events .... Lake Conjola show complete devastation today following the fire front that ravaged the town, some 50 homes destroyed in Lake Conjola and some 200 homes destroyed on the south coast.

Some off topic, troll also baiting posts and replies removed

I have said enough on other posts/times - but I will summarise again.  The problem with bushfires in Australia is the eco-nutters and idiots who dont burn off and remove the bush BEFORE the next drought comes again, which it always does. Many years ago I was riding motorbike through a small town in the Adelaide Hills and we  stopped for petrol. I commented to the petrol station guy that the trees were so close to everything in the town - they were like a wall that finished just before the roads and house - he went off about 'city slickers' and concrete. That town was burnt to the ground in yet another bushfire only a year or so later - Ash Wednesday.  Years later I was in a Vic town and it was the same and I spoke out about it and I got the same reaction - they also burnt down some years later.  I have seen that same sheiiite in many country towns - especialy in SA and VIC.  It happens all the time in Australia and the idiots and greenies just will not change - and the media lets them off.  After the Canberra disaster (I was there) the Govt covered it all up and even the local Aboriginees came out and said they used to burn back the bush so big fires did not happen - nothing has changed - idiots never listen to history.  I have nil sympathy for adults caught in that situation - it is like camping under a big gumtree - it is obviously stupid and yet every year or two a person is killed by falling branches from gum trees  (wind at night). I hope the kids are safe. 

 

 

 

On 12/31/2019 at 1:15 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to understand how a fire can get that close to a population center without the chainsaws and bulldozers removing the fuel BEFORE it could be a problem. Do they not have chainsaws, bulldozers and people to use them in that town, or is there some reason they could not attempt to save the town?

There are over one hundred fires burning across NSW alone, has been going on for several months now, after a 3 year drought. One thousand buildings gone, several lives lost.

Firestorms create there own weather , A firestorm is a conflagration which attains such intensity that it creates and sustains its own wind system. It is most commonly a natural phenomenon, created during some of the largest bush fires and wildfires .Firestorms also explode the air in front of them due to intense heat conditions, buildings spontaneously explode.

Combined with its own wind pattern driven by 40klm external wind gusts.

Over 2000 volunteers on the ground fighting them across NSW, backed up professionals from across NSW, Canada and NZ.

 

Months over over 35 degree heatwave.

Some of the fire-fronts are hundreds of kilometers across

Similar happening in South Australia, Queensland, Victoria and Western Australia, over 400,000 hectares have been burned since November.

Chainsaws to clear debris is like pissing in the wind in this , firebreaks are cut continuously, but fires are jumping them, embers are travelling up to 10 klm in front of the fires 

 

Army also being used along with helicopters and fire bombing retarding jet aircraft

 

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by RJRS1301

8 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

I have said enough on other posts/times - but I will summarise again.  The problem with bushfires in Australia is the eco-nutters and idiots who dont burn off and remove the bush BEFORE the next drought comes again, which it always does. Many years ago I was riding motorbike through a small town in the Adelaide Hills and we  stopped for petrol. I commented to the petrol station guy that the trees were so close to everything in the town - they were like a wall that finished just before the roads and house - he went off about 'city slickers' and concrete. That town was burnt to the ground in yet another bushfire only a year or so later - Ash Wednesday.  Years later I was in a Vic town and it was the same and I spoke out about it and I got the same reaction - they also burnt down some years later.  I have seen that same sheiiite in many country towns - especialy in SA and VIC.  It happens all the time in Australia and the idiots and greenies just will not change - and the media lets them off.  After the Canberra disaster (I was there) the Govt covered it all up and even the local Aboriginees came out and said they used to burn back the bush so big fires did not happen - nothing has changed - idiots never listen to history.  I have nil sympathy for adults caught in that situation - it is like camping under a big gumtree - it is obviously stupid and yet every year or two a person is killed by falling branches from gum trees  (wind at night). I hope the kids are safe. 

 

 

 

You are off your head-welcome to Thailand.

 

You will be safe here-for a while..

It's Called AGENDA 21 / AGENDA 30! Go figure. The same thing happened in California. Imagine that! Samd same water buffalo. Anybody heard of DEW's.

Double post.

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by Odysseus123

6 minutes ago, nervona81732 said:

It's Called AGENDA 21 / AGENDA 30! Go figure. The same thing happened in California. Imagine that! Samd same water buffalo. Anybody heard of DEW's.

Splendid!

..and just when did you arrive from Tralfamadore?

 

Are we looking after you and you crew ok?

 

Are you in line for repatriation to your solar system?

i have read a lot of comments here about having pumps to save houses and chainsaws to cut down trees to reduce fuel for fires. firstly we are talking about an area as big as the UK. these fires are travelling at up to 40kph. the warnings are. do not stop and defend your homes because the heat from the fire WILL kill you. the fires are melting steel engine blocks. the roar of the fires is like a locomotive coming toward you. they are creating their own weather storms called pyro(fire) cumulonimbus storms. they are so great that they lifted up an 8tonne fire truck and dropped it on it's side. all you armchair critics would sh...t yourselves if one of these fire storms came your way. give me a category 5 cyclone any day. none of you have been through a fires like this.....i can tell by your comments. houses can be rebuild but when your dead, your dead. if there are only 10 dead. that in itself is unbelievable.

3 minutes ago, barrykay said:

i have read a lot of comments here about having pumps to save houses and chainsaws to cut down trees to reduce fuel for fires. firstly we are talking about an area as big as the UK. these fires are travelling at up to 40kph. the warnings are. do not stop and defend your homes because the heat from the fire WILL kill you. the fires are melting steel engine blocks. the roar of the fires is like a locomotive coming toward you. they are creating their own weather storms called pyro(fire) cumulonimbus storms. they are so great that they lifted up an 8tonne fire truck and dropped it on it's side. all you armchair critics would sh...t yourselves if one of these fire storms came your way. give me a category 5 cyclone any day. none of you have been through a fires like this.....i can tell by your comments. houses can be rebuild but when your dead, your dead. if there are only 10 dead. that in itself is unbelievable.

It's only a few..most posters understand

 

Curiously enough they are Trumpists and climate change deniers as well..they have a complete inability to actually converse with others who are on the ground experiencing these things

They are more than just a few pigeons short of a loft...

8 minutes ago, barrykay said:

i have read a lot of comments here about having pumps to save houses and chainsaws to cut down trees to reduce fuel for fires. firstly we are talking about an area as big as the UK. these fires are travelling at up to 40kph. the warnings are. do not stop and defend your homes because the heat from the fire WILL kill you. the fires are melting steel engine blocks. the roar of the fires is like a locomotive coming toward you. they are creating their own weather storms called pyro(fire) cumulonimbus storms. they are so great that they lifted up an 8tonne fire truck and dropped it on it's side. all you armchair critics would sh...t yourselves if one of these fire storms came your way. give me a category 5 cyclone any day. none of you have been through a fires like this.....i can tell by your comments. houses can be rebuild but when your dead, your dead. if there are only 10 dead. that in itself is unbelievable.

Agree I was in Lorne in 1983 (Ash Wednesday) the firestorm came down the hillside in moments, house next door exploded, all precautions had been taken in the days leading up to the devastation, some homes even had sprinklers installed in the roofs, and were not burned but exploded.

One of our cars melted in the driveway, the other was at the beach with us.

Most terrifying time to live through and I have been in cyclones.

 

22 hours ago, evadgib said:

Just curious; do the Aussie's have Smoke-jumpers?

No, the fires move so fast that the "jumpers would in all likelihood be trapped and die (no way to get them out), people don't realise how hot the ground gets, six months after the "Ash Wednesday" fires ,the ground 2 meters down, was so hot that it would cause paper to catch fire!! So they couldn't even dig in to save themselves! 

4 hours ago, Ventenio said:

If you are an Aussie..... what do you think about having a fireworks display??   of course i think it was dumb, but i will listen to people who know more about it than i do.....

Most small towns cancelled, and only major cities went ahead.   The usual vocal minority claimed outrage that they should be taking place when the bushfires are still going on, and that the $6 million (in Sydney) would be better spent on the fire defence.  Sydney is the showpiece of fireworks and subject to the loudest attacks.

 

the usual vocal minority do not understand, or choose to ignore facts.

 

the fireworks are funded by local councils so the money pool is different to the state based fire defence funding.

 

The fireworks are approved by the local fire services and any potential threats are monitored by boots on the ground.

 

over 1 million people attend in Sydney alone, despite the headaches of traffic and public transport. This probably tells you what most people think.  The vast majority of people just enjoy the wonderful show and beautiful harbour.

 

it generates roughly $130 million revenue for the city.   Hard to know what tax revenue stems for that, but probably in the order of 30-40 million.

 

Sydney council donates to the Rural Fire Service, which would not be possible without that revenue.  This year councils also raised funds from crowd donations.

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

It's only a few..most posters understand

 

Curiously enough they are Trumpists and climate change deniers as well..they have a complete inability to actually converse with others who are on the ground experiencing these things

They are more than just a few pigeons short of a loft...

So much hate!   Guess your new year will be as miserable as every other.   Good early season contender for conflating the most issues.

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I read once one hectare of bush on fire puts out as much energy as the atom bomb that destroyed Hiroshima.

Unless the authorities cut every tree down near population centres, there will be crown fires. No fire fighting force can stop a crown fire, all anyone can do is let it burn out.

Most Australian bush is eucalypt, which produces oil to protect itself from insect predators. There is also the factor of wind in Victoria, which can change from a 50 km/hr hot northerly to a 50 km/hr southerly in ten minutes. A fire burning for days on a 1 km front becomes a fire on a 50 km front with the wind change. Impossible to defend.

Radiant heat is the real killer in bushfires. If one can survive until the flame front passes, the aftermath can be dealt with. According to a CFA study years ago, 95% of residents who defended their property saved it. Under these unprecedented conditions, I am not sure that is valid any longer. Dare I mention climate change?

Best option for Mallacootans is to get into the water, and wait it out.

Dry is dry, whatever the cause.

Seems to me then, that the state governments are to blame for not paying up to remove the undergrowth. I hear what you say about crown fires, but on the Al Jazira news which was extensive, every sequence had undergrowth burning.

However, after it is all over there will be a lot of finger pointing and covering of backsides. The inquiry will be interesting.

4 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Ha..numerous threads.

 

You have been on pretty much every thread on this topic.Same stuff different day.

So you won't supply a link because you can't.

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

I have said enough on other posts/times - but I will summarise again.  The problem with bushfires in Australia is the eco-nutters and idiots who dont burn off and remove the bush BEFORE the next drought comes again, which it always does. Many years ago I was riding motorbike through a small town in the Adelaide Hills and we  stopped for petrol. I commented to the petrol station guy that the trees were so close to everything in the town - they were like a wall that finished just before the roads and house - he went off about 'city slickers' and concrete. That town was burnt to the ground in yet another bushfire only a year or so later - Ash Wednesday.  Years later I was in a Vic town and it was the same and I spoke out about it and I got the same reaction - they also burnt down some years later.  I have seen that same sheiiite in many country towns - especialy in SA and VIC.  It happens all the time in Australia and the idiots and greenies just will not change - and the media lets them off.  After the Canberra disaster (I was there) the Govt covered it all up and even the local Aboriginees came out and said they used to burn back the bush so big fires did not happen - nothing has changed - idiots never listen to history.  I have nil sympathy for adults caught in that situation - it is like camping under a big gumtree - it is obviously stupid and yet every year or two a person is killed by falling branches from gum trees  (wind at night). I hope the kids are safe. 

 

 

 

Well said. Prevention is always the best way.

Wonder if things will change now, or if we'll be reading the same stories in a couple of years time.

On 12/31/2019 at 10:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to understand how a fire can get that close to a population center without the chainsaws and bulldozers removing the fuel BEFORE it could be a problem. Do they not have chainsaws, bulldozers and people to use them in that town, or is there some reason they could not attempt to save the town?

And how long would it take to move thousands of tons of wood and where could they put it where it wouldn't catch fire ?  Where would they get all the trucks and equipment to move it all at short notice ??  Logistically it is impossible. You are right about one thing..........You fail to understand !

2 hours ago, Mick501 said:

Most small towns cancelled, and only major cities went ahead.   The usual vocal minority claimed outrage that they should be taking place when the bushfires are still going on, and that the $6 million (in Sydney) would be better spent on the fire defence.  Sydney is the showpiece of fireworks and subject to the loudest attacks.

 

the usual vocal minority do not understand, or choose to ignore facts.

 

the fireworks are funded by local councils so the money pool is different to the state based fire defence funding.

 

The fireworks are approved by the local fire services and any potential threats are monitored by boots on the ground.

 

over 1 million people attend in Sydney alone, despite the headaches of traffic and public transport. This probably tells you what most people think.  The vast majority of people just enjoy the wonderful show and beautiful harbour.

 

it generates roughly $130 million revenue for the city.   Hard to know what tax revenue stems for that, but probably in the order of 30-40 million.

 

Sydney council donates to the Rural Fire Service, which would not be possible without that revenue.  This year councils also raised funds from crowd donations.

The cost of the fireworks for Sydney about $6million had already been allocated and paid for before the fire season began. Many local councils had their shows cancelled due to the total fire bans in place.

Sydney City council donated $600,000 towards fire services, Red Cross raised almost $2 million more for fire relief during and because of the fireworks.

 

Sydney has had smoke pollution equivalent to Delhi for weeks now, so I am sure the fireworks for many as it was a breezy night was welcome relief for many.

 

Just saw an interview with a man who was in his boat 800 mtrs offshore and the embers driven by the wind were dropping in water around him.

I do not think people realise that trees such as eucalyptus and avocado trees literally explode in extreme heat. Throwing debris 100s of meters and causing more fires in all directions

One fire crew had to abandon their truck as it was melting in the heat, and get rescued by another truck behind them

Another truck was picked up by the wind generated by the fire and thrown on it side killing one of the firemen

 

On 12/31/2019 at 9:15 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to understand how a fire can get that close to a population center without the chainsaws and bulldozers removing the fuel BEFORE it could be a problem. Do they not have chainsaws, bulldozers and people to use them in that town, or is there some reason they could not attempt to save the town?

A very good comment. For 100's of years before the Europeans arrived the aboriginals burned off the full load in the bush during winter. This practice continued until the early 1980's when the city dwelling greens banned the annual burn off and banned cutting fire breaks in the bush to avoid endangering some bloody insect. Now we have massive build up of fuel load which makes for bigger and more severe fires.

Good forrest management is not allowed.

 

 

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by geoffrobbo

3 minutes ago, geoffrobbo said:

A very good comment. For 100's of years before the Europeans arrived the aboriginals burned off the full load in the bush during winter. This practice continued until the early 1980's when the city dwelling greens banned the annual burn off and banned cutting fire breaks in the bush to avoid endangering some bloody insect. Now we have massive build up of fuel load which makes for bigger and more severe fires.

Good forrest management is not allowed.

 

 

I think that is simplifying to issue, yes in some region massive fuel load, but we now have temperate rain forests which have never burned on fire. Extreme heat over 40 deg for weeks on end in some areas.

It is not a simple fix or simple one cause. My friends avocado orchid literally exploded causing fires and he lost over one thousand trees, he had cleared ground for kilometers around the property.

1 hour ago, geoffrobbo said:

A very good comment. For 100's of years before the Europeans arrived the aboriginals burned off the full load in the bush during winter. This practice continued until the early 1980's when the city dwelling greens banned the annual burn off and banned cutting fire breaks in the bush to avoid endangering some bloody insect. Now we have massive build up of fuel load which makes for bigger and more severe fires.

Good forrest management is not allowed.

 

 

That is quite incorrect-tho' repeated often..

Is there a drop in hazard reduction?

A spokesperson for the NSW Department of Planning, Industry and Environment has told Guardian Australia that the National Parks and Wildlife Service carried out hazard reduction activities across more than 139,000ha in 2018 and 2019.

 'This is our new normal': regional mayors on bushfires and climate change

Claire Pontin and Dominic King

 

 

Read more

The NPWS had a hazard reduction target to treat 680,000ha of parks and reserves in the five years from 2011, which the spokesperson said it had exceeded.

The spokesperson added: “Hazard reduction is just one way of preparing for bushfires – it doesn’t remove the threat of fire.”

Bradstock says: “In New South Wales, hazard reduction work is governed by policies that are set by coordinating committee chaired by the Rural Fire Service. They bring together all players – with representatives from farmers, environment groups and governments.

“Hazard reduction work has increased because of increased funding to the RFS and to national parks. There has been more carried out in recent years..."

 

The nonsense has been spruiked by Barnaby Joyce endlessly over the past few monthsa.Nobody has ever accused Barnaby of having a brain-which is why they vote for him.

Edited January 1, 20206 yr by Odysseus123

6 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

I have said enough on other posts/times - but I will summarise again.  The problem with bushfires in Australia is the eco-nutters and idiots who dont burn off and remove the bush BEFORE the next drought comes again, which it always does. Many years ago I was riding motorbike through a small town in the Adelaide Hills and we  stopped for petrol. I commented to the petrol station guy that the trees were so close to everything in the town - they were like a wall that finished just before the roads and house - he went off about 'city slickers' and concrete. That town was burnt to the ground in yet another bushfire only a year or so later - Ash Wednesday.  Years later I was in a Vic town and it was the same and I spoke out about it and I got the same reaction - they also burnt down some years later.  I have seen that same sheiiite in many country towns - especialy in SA and VIC.  It happens all the time in Australia and the idiots and greenies just will not change - and the media lets them off.  After the Canberra disaster (I was there) the Govt covered it all up and even the local Aboriginees came out and said they used to burn back the bush so big fires did not happen - nothing has changed - idiots never listen to history.  I have nil sympathy for adults caught in that situation - it is like camping under a big gumtree - it is obviously stupid and yet every year or two a person is killed by falling branches from gum trees  (wind at night). I hope the kids are safe. 

 

 

 

It's not any different to those people who live on transient land on the Florida Keys in the path of hurricanes. People live in the bush because they like it.

I think you will find many people living in high fire risk areas take steps to defend their property. The first thing any authority such as the CFA does in a fire situation is cut electricity to the affected area, so a householder better have an independent backup generator or pump ready, with tank water available. There are those who choose to wing it, and they are usually the ones who lose their houses.

While I agree controlled burning is necessary, there are areas in the Victorian Alps that are simply inaccessible for that purpose.

I was once told by a CFA captain any stick the thickness of a little finger was a potential ember, and could travel up to 5 km before the flame front.

Having said that, I think the precursor conditions for these latest fires are unprecedented. The elephant in the room is climate change.

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Dare I mention climate change?

No please  dont , eucalypt  trees   burn very well but also re grow  very fast also