Seven days of carnage claim 373 lives, down 19%

[Assurancetourix]

18 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Pure luck and has nothing to do with any campaign strategy!

 

Pure luck because there were more traffic jam so less drivers who can go fast ;

 

There is almost no motorway in Thailand; a few hundred km around Bangkok;
To go from bangkok to Nakon Phanom there is, according to the Thais, only one real road, the 2 to Udon Thani then the 22 to Nakon Phanom.

In any case, this is what 99.9% of Thai people do because they cannot read a map or correctly use the GPS of their vehicle or their smartphone.
It is therefore normal that this only route is very crowded.
While there are quite a few roads in perfect condition that allow you to avoid this route, provided you take each other by the hand.

From my house, Sawang daen Din to Nong Khai, the only road known by the Thai people, it is road 22 to Udon, then the bypass of Udon which is always very congested then road 2 until Nong Khai;
route that I never take; I go through secondary roads which make me do a few more km but I am quiet, almost no traffic and roads in very good condition ..

 

Having been an international trucker for 40 years and having gone to almost all European countries without GPS which did not exist at my time, I am never lost  anywhere in the world because I have an excellent sense of orientation. .

[Airbagwill]

19%?

Optimistically this could represent the start of a sea-change in road safety in Thailand - the populace are gradually becoming aware that this is not acceptable

 

However, the authorities, even though the country's economy is losing 3% per annum due to this, are still not responding appropriately and doing the wrong thing every year.

 

This leads to the worrying conclusion that some may use these figures to vindicate the inappropriate actions the authorities have taken.

 

As for the stats themselves - 19% is a significant figure.

firstly lets assume no one is cooking the books.

however the books themselves are almost worthless.

the 30 day rule is a myth, but obviously the numbers we are dealing with now are just first draft......they won't be confirmed till the end of the year.

they still fail to come up to international standards

A full set would include amongst others a 3-grade assessment of injuries - minor, serious and fatal....

Thailand has NEVER achieved this.

 

Then one wonders where these stats come from and who compiles them - there are several sources in Thailand - amongst them police, hospitals and insurance. one suspects that the current set come only from police, and it seems pretty clear that the police force in Thailand is neither trained in or capable of dealing with road safety issues. This leads one to conclude that the stats themselves ae insufficient to daw any serious conclusions from.

 

PS - I look forward to the day when the media can repost of road safety without the elvish use of soundbite and cliche. Even a 10 year old school kid could find a different word for "carnage".

[Airbagwill]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:24 PM, Artisi said:

And after they factor in the deaths in hospital it's likely to be +20%, but let's not mention that in our press releases..... 

 

that would be the same every year. I've never seen a later "rouding up" of the figures.

I think the main problem every year is te limited sources used for these impromptu figures that are little more than educated guesses.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

22 hours ago, Searat7 said:

With the holiday being on a Wednesday you can be sure that many more people will be traveling on this weekend to return home. It would be interesting to know the stats through tomorrow (Sunday).

With all the & days of danger, the parameters have always been very arbitrary. As you indicate, the volume of traffic is not alluded to.

It all comes down to the haphazard gathering of statistics. In Europe and the states even, better stats are gathered EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR, without this (a proper picture of the situation) it is difficult to see how progress can be made.

 

[Airbagwill]

On 1/4/2020 at 8:16 AM, LennyW said:

The published figures may be down....but........

but what? These figures ae produced in the same way every year.

[Airbagwill]

23 hours ago, simtemple said:

Hospital deaths don't count. Statistics Thai Style

This is a wildly inaccurate myth that needs to be busted.

Yearly stats are gathered from multiple sources including hospitals and there is no 30 day cut-off either.

However even the most cursory observer would realise that these stats would not be available until later.

The problem is how these "instant" stats are gathered, collated and analysed .... and by whom.

however as they are gathered in the same way hey year, they have a constant that makes them comparable - however inaccurate they may be.

[Airbagwill]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:44 PM, Traubert said:

20% reduction isn't enough, isn't that good enough?

No it isn't because the authorities are not showing any real understanding of the issues and are not showing any significant changes in policy or methodology.

As said what is worrying now is that this reduction will not be analysed properly but it will be used instead to justify inappropriate policies.

[Airbagwill]

On 1/4/2020 at 7:46 AM, legend49 said:

More than 64,000 highway officials and police officers manned 2,000 checkpoints countrywide during the seven days. 

 

I never saw 1 of these 64,000 where do they hide? Correct me if I am wrong head BIB Muppet said no checkpoints this period to get the traffic flowing, so they still managed 2000 tea money collection points?

Checkpoints (Thai style) are a sign of not knowing how to deal with the problem. It is also a constant reminder that the police have insufficient training in road safety

[Airbagwill]

On 1/4/2020 at 8:34 AM, bignbad said:

The No 1 cause was drunk driving, at 32.7 per cent, followed by speeding, at 29 per cent.

 

What was the causes of the remaining 38.3%? 

Stupidity? 

one wonders how they gather these stats. For instance in UK everyone is breathalyser and processed for instance and speed is assessed by careful analysis for the accident scene. As none of this occurs in Thailand one has to conclude it is guesswork by the police.

[Airbagwill]

21 hours ago, dlclark97 said:

A good start!  But still have 81% to go.  A final zero deaths on scene or later as a result of an accident would be something to cheer about. 

"Safe System" as adopted in the EU aims to reduce deaths to zero and other accidents to negligible numbers. This is not achieved by blaming drivers but by creating a road environment where the safety of all road users is considered.

[Artisi]

35 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

that would be the same every year. I've never seen a later "rouding up" of the figures.

I think the main problem every year is te limited sources used for these impromptu figures that are little more than educated guesses.

Delete educated.... 

[LennyW]

19 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

"Safe System" as adopted in the EU aims to reduce deaths to zero and other accidents to negligible numbers. This is not achieved by blaming drivers but by creating a road environment where the safety of all road users is considered.

Utter nonsense, the drivers in Thailand are the main problem, lack of driving skill, lack of awareness, lack of depth perception, lack of foresight, me first attitude, blinkered to anything outside their own bubble, the roads are generally very good in Thailand that is not the problem.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by LennyW

[LennyW]

35 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

but what? These figures ae produced in the same way every year.

Exactly, nothing more than a guesstimate.

Edited January 5, 2020 by LennyW

[steve187]

23 hours ago, loong said:

Almost a million over 7 days, roughly 140,000 per day.

More than 64,000 highway officials and police officers.

That averages to just over 2 vehicles stopped per person per day.

They really should put in a complaint about being overworked!

what about the ones stopped that did not commit any offences, or are that just so good at only stopping the ones that commit offences

[Artisi]

13 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

"Safe System" as adopted in the EU aims to reduce deaths to zero and other accidents to negligible numbers. This is not achieved by blaming drivers but by creating a road environment where the safety of all road users is considered.

Based on the premise that a vast majority agree with and in most cases comply with the rules and regulation without relying on amulets or magic etc. 

[steve187]

3 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Utter nonsense, the drivers are the main problem, lack of driving skill, lack of awareness, lack of depth perception, lack of foresight, me first attitude, blinkered to anything outside their own bubble, the roads are generally very good in Thailand that is not the problem.

 

no u turns are a good design, road design and planning has everything to do with the amount of accidents

[LennyW]

4 minutes ago, steve187 said:

no u turns are a good design, road design and planning has everything to do with the amount of accidents

So how does a perfectly good road achieve this, selfish me first <deleted>....agree with the U turns though!

 

https://www.facebook.com/ampmy.honda/videos/2870887082942701/?t=11

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by LennyW

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Utter nonsense, the drivers in Thailand are the main problem, lack of driving skill, lack of awareness, lack of depth perception, lack of foresight, me first attitude, blinkered to anything outside their own bubble, the roads are generally very good in Thailand that is not the problem.

 

You have summed up the underlying problem very well. Sure, roads and signage could be improved in some areas but when you are catering for a population who can't see or cares what happens outside their 1 metre of personal space you are asking for miracles to reduce the kill rate. 

 

[steve187]

9 minutes ago, LennyW said:

So how does a perfectly good road achieve this, selfish me first <deleted>....agree with the U turns though!

 

https://www.facebook.com/ampmy.honda/videos/2870887082942701/?t=11

 

 

i didn't say all collisions could be avoid, but a good road design and lay out helps to reduce collisions, over bridge u turns in place of outside lane u turns would save thousands of collisions in Thailand

[Airbagwill]

30 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Utter nonsense, the drivers in Thailand are the main problem, lack of driving skill, lack of awareness, lack of depth perception, lack of foresight, me first attitude, blinkered to anything outside their own bubble, the roads are generally very good in Thailand that is not the problem.

 

Your comments underline why so little progress is made on rod safety in Thailand-

Everyone is prepared to make a comment (these do not qualify as opinions) based on absolutely no knowledge of road safety whatsoever.

Sadly your own comment shows absolutely no understanding of road safety and it seems you prefer to resort to airing pure assumption and prejudice based on nationality and race.

Like so many exits, you also have no idea what makes a "good road" - I suggest you investigate road design before making such glib comments

You might also take into account that countries that have adopted "safe System" (something you are clearly unaware of) have death rates less than one tenth of Thailand's.

 

The trouble with so many "experts" on this forum is they have spent most of their lives driving within the "safe system" and fail to realise how much this has done to protect them from their own inadequacies. The result; they erroenously think that they are "good Drivers" - a very unfortunate spin-off from a very successful system.

[Airbagwill]

24 minutes ago, Artisi said:

You have summed up the underlying problem very well. Sure, roads and signage could be improved in some areas but when you are catering for a population who can't see or cares what happens outside their 1 metre of personal space you are asking for miracles to reduce the kill rate. 

 

Yet another total misunderstanding of how road safety and safe system works. It isn't JUST roads it is the entire transport environment, from enforce, education engineering emergency service to scientific evaluation.

It seems that many ae incapable of seeing the whole picture and resort of little sound bites as if they are the cure

[Airbagwill]

40 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Exactly, nothing more than a guesstimate.

you fail to see how this fits into th general malaise re road safety in Thailand.

[Airbagwill]

41 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Based on the premise that a vast majority agree with and in most cases comply with the rules and regulation without relying on amulets or magic etc. 

That shows a complete misunderstanding of how safe system works - have you bothered to read up on Safe System?- the idea is to prevent idiots from doing what they do and mitigate the consequences - the whole point is that it overcomes such things as superstition etc. however I suspect you are just making stereotypical generalisations at the expense of Thai people .

Edited January 5, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Isaanbiker]

On 1/3/2020 at 7:56 PM, RichardColeman said:

64,000 officials and police and STILL 373 dead ? Talk about a complete failure

We drove to my wife's village on the highway 226 on the 30th of December.

 

No coppers on a road that had checkpoints every 5 km a few years ago. 

 

  

[LennyW]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Your comments underline why so little progress is made on rod safety in Thailand-

Everyone is prepared to make a comment (these do not qualify as opinions) based on absolutely no knowledge of road safety whatsoever.

Sadly your own comment shows absolutely no understanding of road safety and it seems you prefer to resort to airing pure assumption and prejudice based on nationality and race.

Like so many exits, you also have no idea what makes a "good road" - I suggest you investigate road design before making such glib comments

You might also take into account that countries that have adopted "safe System" (something you are clearly unaware of) have death rates less than one tenth of Thailand's.

 

The trouble with so many "experts" on this forum is they have spent most of their lives driving within the "safe system" and fail to realise how much this has done to protect them from their own inadequacies. The result; they erroenously think that they are "good Drivers" - a very unfortunate spin-off from a very successful system.

Been living and driving in Thailand for past 23 years, no matter how much nonsense you spout about what other countries do regarding roads, until the mindset of the Thai people driving  change to that of another race......nothing will change. 

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Yet another total misunderstanding of how road safety and safe system works. It isn't JUST roads it is the entire transport environment, from enforce, education engineering emergency service to scientific evaluation.

It seems that many ae incapable of seeing the whole picture and resort of little sound bites as if they are the cure

It is blatantly obvious you are on another planet, or are you completely blind as to this is Thailand and nobody gives a rats a rse about all the well intended academic discussion.

Rules are ignored, common sense is completely lacking. 

Make and implement all the changes you believe will reduce the kill rate - all to no avail as the laws will be ignored, drink-driving will still be here along with speeding, driving on the wrong side of  the road, ignoring red lights, and the me me attitude. 

As 80% of the road deaths are motor cycle riders, usually drunk, it seems that the majority of roads, rules, emergency services, and scientific evaluation is adequate. 

 

So who has a complete misunderstanding of the  picture and what the cure is? 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Artisi

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, LennyW said:

Been living and driving in Thailand for past 23 years, no matter how much nonsense you spout about what other countries do regarding roads, until the mindset of the Thai people driving  change to that of another race......nothing will change. 

Irrelevant, so have I, but I've done a higher mileage.

You comment just shows how with some people familiarity is mistaken for experience and how we fail to learn from it it due to addiction to confirmation bias.

 

I have said that change is at present almost impossible, so you clearly haven't red my posts, but unlike yourself, I've outlined some reasons why.

[Airbagwill]

22 minutes ago, Artisi said:

It is blatantly obvious you are on another planet, or are you completely blind as to this is Thailand and nobody gives a rats a rse about all the well intended academic discussion.

Rules are ignored, common sense is completely lacking. 

Make and implient all the changes you believe will reduce the kill rate - all to no avail as the laws will be ignored, drink-driving will still be here along with speeding, driving on the wrong side of  the road, ignoring red lights, and the me me attitude. 

As 80% of the road deaths are motor cycle riders, usually drunk, it seems that the majority of roads, rules, emergency services, and scientific evaluation is adequate. 

 

So who has a complete misunderstanding of the  picture and what the cure is? 

 

QED

[loong]

3 hours ago, steve187 said:

what about the ones stopped that did not commit any offences, or are that just so good at only stopping the ones that commit offences

As the article stated....

Quote

Almost a million vehicles were stopped for inspection and 230,306 persons ticketed, most for not wearing a helmet or having no valid driver’s licence. 

 

[steve187]

2 hours ago, loong said:

As the article stated....

 

sorry didnt take it all in