Tourist Killed At “full Moon” Party

[alaina]

anybody who knows anything about thailand knows that this is the quickest way to be possibly murdered for your stupid actions. ( spitting in a thais face.)

And can you show me any proof that this 32 year old Israeli spit in a Thai's face?

Like I said this is speculation, by someone on the forum who had a friend who was SUPPOSEDLY there. And let's pretend this friend was in fact there. Was this guy in proximity of the incident to actually see and hear what was going on? Was this person witness to everything before and after? I mean how reliable is this so-called friend (How many drinks did he have)? Say the Israeli guy really did spit in the face of a Thai, was this the Israeli who even got stabbed?

Also, none of you are mentioning this: "The suspects include the son of a local politician, who has a bad reputation for bothering foreigners." Sounds to me like this guy has had problems in the past, yet most of you seem to be saying (maybe not condoning) that the Israeli kind of got what he had coming to him. Who's to say the a Thai guy didn't provoke the whole mess. Because right now I haven't read a single article stating that anyone spit in anyone's face.

Maybe we should just wait until more facts on the matter come out before we judge too much. I think it's a very sad state when a disagreement (regardless of who started it) could lead to murder. Just glad my wife and I up here in Chiang Mai stay far away from the bars.

Sorry for the aside, but..

While I admire the idea that you are waiting for "the facts", I think that sbk's post is as valid as anything you'll end up reading in the news. Just take a look at the Thai papers, and drop by the FCC, their info on this will hardly be "fact" either. They just have more ink.

[khall64au]

eveyone that has spent a fair amount of time in thailand..( ive been around 19 years)..knows that to get in any sort of arguement on any sort of level...it can end up costing you your life....as a previos post mentioned....a fight in your own country might end up with a few bruises or a broken nose at the most...in thailand/phillipins and other areas....you are gambling with your life as an insult to a local is a big loss of face and they do not way up the consequences...and do not fight in ones...chances are they will get away with it as well.

thailand wants places like phuket to become world class tourist destinations..like monte carlo...san tropez.

but you cannot have tourists being beaten up / stabbed / raped / murdered over things.....like a disagreement over a tuk tuk fare.

the thai authorities really need to get a grip...as one day the tourists may decide enough is enough.

as when incidents like this do occur ( far to often) ...the first response from anyone in authority is there concern for the tourist industryand loss of revenue.

I pulled up at the local fresh food market a few days ago - on southern Phuket - and was shocked to the core to see a huge serrated dagger sitting in the front basket of a motor-scooter.

Seems to me, the message is that the local population are armed, dangerous and ready to kill?!!!

[ourmanflint]

To all those that believe that Thailand will never change, may I remind you that there once was a time when no Thai however offended would dare to attack and kill a tourist.

So yes, Thailand has already changed and IMHO it can change again, it just needs a nudge in the right direction from within.

I don't want to give up on that hope just yet..

Quite the optimist eh? Nice to see but extremely unrealistic when considering human nature. Please name me one country that does not have murder. I don't think its possible and as long as we are human, we are going to kill each other.

Optimist yes!!

Not so long ago in Thailand attacks like this were really, really rare, now they are much more commonplace so Thailand has changed. And attacking a tourist was a very serious crime and seriously punished, nowadays it's no more than a PR operation to placate the ever so important "quality tourist" we hear so much about.

Quality tourists that I doubt would want to come to a place where there was the slightest chance of being murdered over an argument... Thailand needs to shape up.. end of story!

And JD I left Thailand last month... for no particular reason other than to put some more nuts in the bank!!

[terry57]

Hi Terry,

Oh my Goth (see other thread) you must be so proud knowing a 'hitman'.

And the feeling you must have had when your 'brave' husband called in to him to help.

Would you be Ok when your 'Hitman' had shot that person?

I first thought you where Ok, but I have my doubts now Terry

take care,

Alex

ok this is the last time i'll mention the hitman and just to put alex's mind at ease ill explain it to him.

# 1 = i dont know the hitman as i met him once in 1988. ( long time ago)

no need to be proud but an experience i'll never forget and one im so glad i had as it made me well aware of the dangers and reality of thailand.

if the israeli had had this experience i dare say he would still be alive today as he would not of been so silly to spit in a thais face.

this is the connection between my hitman story and the israeli dude at hadd rin.

# 2 = dont have a husband because im a dude and not a dudette so thats a silly comment alex.

# 3 = not my hitman and he did not shoot anybody that i know off.

but i can tell you that my ex partner got knocked off by a hitman as he played that game.

# 4 = cant believe you dont like me any more alex but here's ten baht so you can ring someone up who cares. ( only joking mate as you've just broken my heart)

the story about the hitman was for any newbies out there who thinks that thailand is disneyland and they can do anything they want. ( you cant and you will pay )

the reason behind the story was for it to tie in with the killing of the israeli and drive home the point that thais are not to be messed with.

if ive helped one person get a grip on this, i'll gladly wear the flack that a few of you have thrown at me tonight.

thank you very much and hope you all have a nice sleep.

end of story and maddy will be very happy to hear that.

[meatgrowler]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

maybe we have understood your quote there jimmy.

do you really think that the thai people are dumb animals. ?

and if you do, why?

thank you very much.

i think if we rewind this thread we all disagree with what has happenned to the israili but can understand it.

lets forget the israili aspect and realise it would of happened to any nationality that committed the said act regardless whether one was wright or wrong.

many people have commented on the israili's because of past experiences but the nationality is irrelevant

it is the said act that caused the unreasonable response.

To me it has nothing to do with the fact the person was from Israel, what it is about is that he was brutally murdered in public over something very trivial.

The whole supporting the Thai's actions leading up to this is absurd , it was the actions of a bunch of animals.

Unfortunately there are those who seem to try to justify or even condone these animal actions.

Not looking to debate this issue , as I actually live here and see more and more of this attitude every day, it is a sad reality.

Are there any ISRAELIS reading this thread that can give their opinion on all of this?????/......its only fair

[markr]

the story about the hitman was for any newbies out there who thinks that thailand is disneyland and they can do anything they want. ( you cant and you will pay )

A decent comment Terry, this is very true!

I once had an experience with a gun in thailand, it wasn't pointed at me, nor was i the one pointing it, but, it did make me realise how quickly this thai man lost his rag, (with another thai) and felt the only option was to shoot him.

Turned out nothing came of it, but his intentions were very clear.

Mark

Edited April 2, 2007 by markr

[bkkmadness]

you say smarter and i say more experienced and its a fact that this incident could of been avoided with a bit more caution on the part of the two farang.

drinking whisky to excess late at night with a drunken cop who then tried to touch up the female and that was what it was all over.

Sorry Terence I did mean to change that from smarter to experienced, not sure why I didn't.

It's actually a fact that if they had never come to Thailand they would never be killed. Funny how facts can be used to make an argument. Would it then be correct to say:

'a senseless killing that could of been avoided if the two people had never come to Thailand.'

It wouldn't would it. Because it's a smart arse comment and two people died.

It's a disrespectful comment, that's my problem with it. These two people were gunned down on holiday Terry and that's why you don't start talking about why they were partly to blame, it just isn't done. You can see my point right?

We might have to agree to disgaree on this or take it up another time Terence, we are going wildly off topic. You can have your usual last say if you want, I know you need it.

[bkkmadness]

the story about the hitman was for any newbies out there who thinks that thailand is disneyland and they can do anything they want. ( you cant and you will pay )

Terry, people meet hitmen in Thailand before they've met a decent girl. I'm surprised hitmen aren't there to greet people at the airport most people know one so soon. Someone starts talking to me about the hitman in a bar chances are he's a tourist or newbie to Thailand. I met more hitmen when I was new to the country than I do now, tell me that ain't the truth punters!

'Hello I'm your friendly hitman this evening and this week I will regalling you in stories of the Thai mafia whilst practising my hundred yard stare. You will in return buy me drinks and think you are connected.'

the reason behind the story was for it to tie in with the killing of the israeli and drive home the point that thais are not to be messed with.

Don't ###### with the locals, golden rule in any country.

[terry57]

you say smarter and i say more experienced and its a fact that this incident could of been avoided with a bit more caution on the part of the two farang.

drinking whisky to excess late at night with a drunken cop who then tried to touch up the female and that was what it was all over.

Sorry Terence I did mean to change that from smarter to experienced, not sure why I didn't.

It's actually a fact that if they had never come to Thailand they would never be killed. Funny how facts can be used to make an argument. Would it then be correct to say:

'a senseless killing that could of been avoided if the two people had never come to Thailand.'

It wouldn't would it. Because it's a smart arse comment and two people died.

It's a disrespectful comment, that's my problem with it. These two people were gunned down on holiday Terry and that's why you don't start talking about why they were partly to blame, it just isn't done. You can see my point right?

We might have to agree to disgaree on this or take it up another time Terence, we are going wildly off topic. You can have your usual last say if you want, I know you need it.

at least your smiling maddy and i think we can respectfully agree to disagree.

just dont get bloody sad on me will you.

je--suss

[JiveTalker]

Funny how whenever any incident involving a foreigner and a Thai is disussed on this here forum there are some people always blindly defending the action of the Thai and trying to somehow apportion blame onto the vicitm?

However should anyone disagree with these vocal few, we get the classic reply:

"Well it's Thailand, if you disagree then why are you here?"

Terrible thing to have happened, whatever the circumstances.

[terry57]

Funny how whenever any incident involving a foreigner and a Thai is disussed on this here forum there are some people always blindly defending the action of the Thai and trying to somehow apportion blame onto the vicitm?

However should anyone disagree with these vocal few, we get the classic reply:

"Well it's Thailand, if you disagree then why are you here?"

Terrible thing to have happened, whatever the circumstances.

what are you talking about ? as no one has said that on this thread and no one has defended the thai.

[65Craig]

OK, enough with Terry's hitman story, please. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And 65Craig, you can believe or disbelieve what I have heard, but my husband does know the "son of a local politician" and has never heard of him as being a known troublemaker. Doesn't say it hasn't happened but that the police speculate just as much as every farang on this board with what appears to be just as little information.

Remember the woman whose 5 year old son was murdered in Koh Samui and the police were sure it was the ex-boyfriend? And then, lo and behold, it turned out it wasn't the ex boyfriend after all! Amazing!

So, lets remember that none of us knows the whole story, I am reporting the bits I have heard, you can take them or not, as you like. But please remember that the police obviously don't know the whole story either. If they did, they would realize that the father isn't actually involved in local politics anymore anyway.

I'm not doubting this is what you've heard, I'm just doubting that someone who was not involved in the actual altercation and was just supposedly present at the bar (of all places) would have all the facts. I mean maybe someone spit on this guy first and he spit back. It's like that case study where a guy runs into a crowded University Lecture Hall and takes the professor's briefcase. They then interview all 300+ University Students and basically get close to 300 different descriptions of what the suspect looked like and what really happened. Imagine adding ALCOHOL to the equation and you'd probably get doubled that (form all the drunks with double vision ) It's all conjecture, and the only people who probably really know what went down are the actual participants. The police then have the job of deciphering what really went down. Tough job, and I'm well aware that the police can be corrupt here as well (as are many Politicians and possibly their sons). Hopefully they can figure it all out and justice will be served. I think the moral of all this is, in any sort of disagreement in a foreign country, it's probably best to walk away (let the Thai save face if they must) and live another day. Anyway, I'm done with this... Too depressing. Cheers and I hope everyone has a happy and safe songkran!!!

[meadish_sweetball]

My condolences to the family of the deceased.

I hope they can get to the bottom of what happened and that the killer is brought to justice. Must be very difficult for several reasons. Bar brawls happen very quickly as we all know, and even people who were directly involved may have missed what actually went down (being drunk, turned the other way, misheard what was said etc.) Further, there is nothing to say they will be telling the truth. Group protection mechanisms can be very strong.

Just a request, it would be nice of more people thought about what they posted, and attempted to show respect to the family of the person who was killed. They are no doubt in shock and have started the long grieving process that comes from losing a family member.

We all have different ideas about this, but I know I would not want to encounter people making light of it on an internet forum, if it were my brother or son who had been stabbed.

[seagull]

I think we need to seperate the behaviour of Israelis and the behaviour of Thai locals on islands like Koh Phangan.

There are far too many people here on these boards who after spending many years in Thailand, make the typical excuses for the behaviour of Thai locals. There seems to be an attitude that only if we had all known better that Thais are on a short fuse then these things would not happen.

I've been many times to Phangan and have had a great time, but I did find the behaviour of many,many local Thai men abhorrent, these really are the worst kind of scum, and yes, they have all been drawn by the goings on at Haad Rin.

Please let's not make the mistake of saying that it is partly our faults for antagonising these thugs. It is not acceptable. This behaviour is not unique to Thailand, but it is quite unique for a supposedly top tourist destination. Everyone that makes excuses for these rapists and murderers are also part of the problem, it is not reasonable to say this is just part of the Thai psychy and we should all play along.

And no matter how many half-naked girls I saw at the FMP, I was never tempted to rape someone... so making any attempt to excuse the behaviour of people who do is really just pathetic.... Terry!!

My "manflint", rightfully spoken.

[jdinasia]

I think we need to seperate the behaviour of Israelis and the behaviour of Thai locals on islands like Koh Phangan.

There are far too many people here on these boards who after spending many years in Thailand, make the typical excuses for the behaviour of Thai locals. There seems to be an attitude that only if we had all known better that Thais are on a short fuse then these things would not happen.

I've been many times to Phangan and have had a great time, but I did find the behaviour of many,many local Thai men abhorrent, these really are the worst kind of scum, and yes, they have all been drawn by the goings on at Haad Rin.

Please let's not make the mistake of saying that it is partly our faults for antagonising these thugs. It is not acceptable. This behaviour is not unique to Thailand, but it is quite unique for a supposedly top tourist destination. Everyone that makes excuses for these rapists and murderers are also part of the problem, it is not reasonable to say this is just part of the Thai psychy and we should all play along.

And no matter how many half-naked girls I saw at the FMP, I was never tempted to rape someone... so making any attempt to excuse the behaviour of people who do is really just pathetic.... Terry!!

My "manflint", rightfully spoken.

You mix one group of ill tempered nasty louts ... with a second group of nasty ill-tempered louts ... and you get bad shit happening ...

Nobody made any 'excuses' for behavior here ... people just said they were surprised it didn't happen before.

[Tyree D.]

I got Popcorn on this. I hope I don't get banned again. I'll just replace Caucasians with Isrealis when I get into a rant.

[seagull]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

Mr. Mook, "dumb animal"? Isn't that going overboard?

[Tyree D.]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

Mr. Mook, "dumb animal"? Isn't that going overboard?

and I got banned for saying things about Caucasians.

[seagull]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

Mr. Mook, "dumb animal"? Isn't that going overboard?

and I got banned for saying things about Caucasians.

and I got banned for re-posting deleted posts! I must be good

[jdinasia]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

Mr. Mook, "dumb animal"? Isn't that going overboard?

and I got banned for saying things about Caucasians.

and I got banned for re-posting deleted posts! I must be good

at a guess .... since having a new account after being banned is against the forum rules ..............

5, 4 , 3 , 2 , 1 ,

[endure]

Don't pick fights with Thai, they can't deal with reasoned negotiation unless they are guaranteed success.

Well put , it is like dealing with a dumb animal.

Mr. Mook, "dumb animal"? Isn't that going overboard?

and I got banned for saying things about Caucasians.

and I got banned for re-posting deleted posts! I must be good

I think you'll find that you were suspended although if you keep talking about it you may get banned as well.

[the gent]

East is East and West is West, and ne'er the twain meet.

However, likening the Thai to ' dumb animals ' is as ludicrous as it is inaccurate since dumb animals seldom behave in such a futile manner. Although I can understand the sentiment behind such a comment which is probably expressed by the poster out of a sense of mounting frustration that can never be resolved if one foolishly tries to apply Western logic where it could never make sense.

My own problem in divining the Thai psyche is reconciling their devotion to each other with their equal and opposing ability to inflict or observe suffering without any apparent qualms. I'm not necessarily talking about my own marriage but I suppose it resolves to their feelings about death which in the Buddhist sense is not as final as we in the Christian West believe. Nevertheless, I still find their seeming callousness quite shocking whether it be to a dog with the most appalling mange or perhaps when a luckless cyclist or pedestrian is squished by a motorist who cannot stop for fear of being held to account. There is a certain long distance lorry driver now retired in Surin whose manslaughter still leaves me speechless but if there is any justice then the b'stard will be reincarnated as either a hedgehog or a traffic cone on the M6. The point is, we're different and if falang don't like it then he can sling his hook.

Mind you, stabbing the hand that feeds you out of a sense of pique is hardly conducive to good relations but logic and reason is no substitute when the blood is up and a perverted personal pride takes priority.

It'll be interesting to see how the case pans out but my money's on the dumb kwai .........

Incidentally, the national fruit in Israel is the prickly pear and is often cited as a metaphor for the Israeli people who like to see themselves as feisty on the outside but all sweet and gooey on the inside.

Now, what are the chances of the Thai knowing that? Perhaps that kwai tap dancing is the more likely.....

[sunreader]

I found some of the Israelis to be quite pushy and smelly at the night market in Chiang Mai at Christmas.

They did little to endear themselves to others.

[OlRedEyes]

Thailand seems to bring out the worst in everybody, Thai and foreigner alike. This thread really makes one want to throw up.

Back to the dark ages.

[Khun ?]

YEP took off the rose colored glasses and cleared the sinuses and took a break from the place before I could really tell what the place was made up of. For the same reason many people are attracted to it and left for the greener pastures is exactly even more of what they are getting into. So much petty stuff ends very tragic and when you have to pay out of your pocket to get officials to do their job it even makes it more pathetic and third world and deserves low class foreign residents and tourist.

Thailand draws the worst of most economies for good reason.

It is not exotic, peaceful or enjoyable much of the time.

Remember ... you divorced yourself/cut your ties to Thailand a while back .......

[0Mix1up]

Certainly bad news makes big news.

[Khun ?]

4 clubs on the head and 8 stab wounds, wonder how long they held him up and how many did it

take to inflict the damage of the ones not holding him up.

SBK

I would find it hard to say one of my friends was not a good person also. Evidence says otherwise,

because he would of quelled the problem of his friends instead of being the major culprit.

Have the Hubby Watch his friends is all I can say.

[jaidam]

Many of us on this forum know the killer. I don't here any of them defending him.

[cdnvic]

4 clubs on the head and 8 stab wounds, wonder how long they held him up and how many did it

take to inflict the damage of the ones not holding him up.

SBK

I would find it hard to say one of my friends was not a good person also. Evidence says otherwise,

because he would of quelled the problem of his friends instead of being the major culprit.

Have the Hubby Watch his friends is all I can say.

You are completely mis-quoting someone here.

I don't see anywhere where sbk said either that he was a good person, or that he was a friend. Simply that her husband knew of him, which is not surprising for locals, and that he hadn't had any trouble before.

I'd trust info from locals on the spot before I'd trust something I read in the Post any day.

[Khun ?]

guess I will have to apoligise then. To many post read since the comment and I am not ready to go back and find it again.