Tourist Killed At “full Moon” Party

[philliphn]

It saddens me to hear about the violent tendencies of young Thai men. It seems that they feel that any loss of face for them should be punished by the deatht penalty or severe gang violence. From the stories I keep hearing the moral issues of what is right seem irrelevant to many young Thai men.

If Thailand wants to attract a better class of tourist, like I keep hearing about, at minimum they need to ensure the basic safety of such tourists (all tourists). When old Thai hands speak of not daring to stand up for your self even when you are right, because Thais will kill you, or seriously injure you by gang violence, over minor issues, something is very wrong.

Severe penalties must be enforced on any one who engages in such violence Thai or farang. If a weapon is used the penalties should be harsher.

From SBK's posting I gather that the the farang murdered was not a very nice person. However, the death penalty was out of order for his obnoxious behavior.

[cdnvic]

It saddens me to hear about the violent tendencies of young Thai men. It seems that they feel that any loss of face for them should be punished by the deatht penalty or severe gang violence.

It saddens me that people get over-excited and attribute the actions of thugs and murderers to Thai men as a whole. Most Thai people avoid confrontation and are about as patient with idiocy as can be expected with anyone. Sometimes there's a rogue among them that loses their temper and the results are deadly, but this happens everywhere. It's tragic, but not typical of Thai behaviour, male or otherwise to inflict severe violence or or kill over every loss of face.

Edited April 3, 2007 by cdnvic

[Scott]

Overall, there are a couple of things that cause a lot of the problems in the country. First, the lack of enforcement of laws and the inaction of the police and secondly, the importance of not losing face.

On the first issue, the police neither "serve" nor "protect" anyone but themselves. That leaves everyone with little recourse except to settle scores themselves. Anytime there is trouble you don't here anyone yell, "call the police."

The lad who as a child throws stones, then later carries a knive, will eventually get a gun. He should have been stopped long before that. So weapons, gangs and violence become the mainstay of "justice" and self-policing.

We all know the consequences of losing face and it's quite serious here and will result in violence more easily and quickly than a lot of westerners are used to. There usually isn't the "step outside and we'll take care of it" idea. It tends to be instant.

My condolences to the family.

[solo siam]

eveyone that has spent a fair amount of time in thailand..( ive been around 19 years)..knows that to get in any sort of arguement on any sort of level...it can end up costing you your life....as a previos post mentioned....a fight in your own country might end up with a few bruises or a broken nose at the most...in thailand/phillipins and other areas....you are gambling with your life as an insult to a local is a big loss of face and they do not way up the consequences...and do not fight in ones...chances are they will get away with it as well.

thailand wants places like phuket to become world class tourist destinations..like monte carlo...san tropez.

but you cannot have tourists being beaten up / stabbed / raped / murdered over things.....like a disagreement over a tuk tuk fare.

the thai authorities really need to get a grip...as one day the tourists may decide enough is enough.

as when incidents like this do occur ( far to often) ...the first response from anyone in authority is there concern for the tourist industryand loss of revenue.

I pulled up at the local fresh food market a few days ago - on southern Phuket - and was shocked to the core to see a huge serrated dagger sitting in the front basket of a motor-scooter.

Seems to me, the message is that the local population are armed, dangerous and ready to kill?!!!

Please!

By dagger, I guess you mean knife - and of course no-one at the fresh food market could have any use for a knife, could they? for example butchering, gutting fish etc... I don't think I've ever read such a sensationalist statement from someone.

[curber]

I think this young man`s murder is atrocious but lets remind ourselves what a full moon party is.....a few thousand young people binge drinking and doing as many drugs as is humanly possible in as short a time as possible.With the violence I see in the young people of Canada today(I`m pretty sure it is not just Canada`s youth that have become so violent) is it any suprise one of the thousands of drunk and stoned youth is murdered.I`m a little too old to be mixing it up anymore but as a younger man a fight was usually between two, never any mob swarming and no one got hurt too bad.The crowd would stop the fight before serious damage was inflicted...now they join in to harm or kill ....I guess that is progress ...I`m all for regression ...my condolences to the dead youths family and friends.....let`s hope some justice is dealt out in hopes it might prevent further needless killings

[sbk]

4 clubs on the head and 8 stab wounds, wonder how long they held him up and how many did it

take to inflict the damage of the ones not holding him up.

SBK

I would find it hard to say one of my friends was not a good person also. Evidence says otherwise,

because he would of quelled the problem of his friends instead of being the major culprit.

Have the Hubby Watch his friends is all I can say.

You are completely mis-quoting someone here.

I don't see anywhere where sbk said either that he was a good person, or that he was a friend. Simply that her husband knew of him, which is not surprising for locals, and that he hadn't had any trouble before.

I'd trust info from locals on the spot before I'd trust something I read in the Post any day.

thanks for that cdnvic, yes, its true, my husband knows of him, certainly not a friend as they aren't even remotely close in age. But my husband literally knows well over a thousand people so the fact that he knows this guy comes as no surprise.

It saddens me to hear about the violent tendencies of young Thai men. It seems that they feel that any loss of face for them should be punished by the deatht penalty or severe gang violence.

It saddens me that people get over-excited and attribute the actions of thugs and murderers to Thai men as a whole. Most Thai people avoid confrontation and are about as patient with idiocy as can be expected with anyone. Sometimes there's a rogue among them that loses their temper and the results are deadly, but this happens everywhere. It's tragic, but not typical of Thai behaviour, male or otherwise to inflict severe violence or or kill over every loss of face.

I agree to this to an extent, I think alot of it depends on age. Either the violent ones wise up and figure out that this is not a good response or their own violence gets them killed.

Overall, there are a couple of things that cause a lot of the problems in the country. First, the lack of enforcement of laws and the inaction of the police and secondly, the importance of not losing face.

On the first issue, the police neither "serve" nor "protect" anyone but themselves. That leaves everyone with little recourse except to settle scores themselves. Anytime there is trouble you don't here anyone yell, "call the police."

The lad who as a child throws stones, then later carries a knive, will eventually get a gun. He should have been stopped long before that. So weapons, gangs and violence become the mainstay of "justice" and self-policing.

We all know the consequences of losing face and it's quite serious here and will result in violence more easily and quickly than a lot of westerners are used to. There usually isn't the "step outside and we'll take care of it" idea. It tends to be instant.

My condolences to the family.

And Scott, I agree with you wholeheartedly here. In fact, you could even go so far as to say the police themselves are part of the problem, since, according to stories in the papers, so many of them seem to use force to solve their own personal arguments as well.

And yes, the ultimate fact here is a young man is dead over something that was most likely stupid and pointless. His family should be given condolences rather than told that their son was an unpleasant man who deserved to die. No one deserves to die for ignorant or obnoxious behavior. No one.

[terry57]

It saddens me to hear about the violent tendencies of young Thai men. It seems that they feel that any loss of face for them should be punished by the deatht penalty or severe gang violence. From the stories I keep hearing the moral issues of what is right seem irrelevant to many young Thai men.

If Thailand wants to attract a better class of tourist, like I keep hearing about, at minimum they need to ensure the basic safety of such tourists (all tourists). When old Thai hands speak of not daring to stand up for your self even when you are right, because Thais will kill you, or seriously injure you by gang violence, over minor issues, something is very wrong.

Severe penalties must be enforced on any one who engages in such violence Thai or farang. If a weapon is used the penalties should be harsher.

From SBK's posting I gather that the the farang murdered was not a very nice person. However, the death penalty was out of order for his obnoxious behavior.

ok fair enough, so lets turn your story around the other way.

how about when farang step foot in thailand, they realise they are guests in this country and its there privilage to be here.

all they have to do is be respectful to the thai and country, have a cracking good time without getting out of control and they will never have a problem.

its pathetic to continually blame the thai for there behaviour when confronted by recalcitrant farangs.

we all know that the thai overeact, but thats they way it is and will always be like this, so how about behaving ones self.

its not very hard you know, and considering thailand has 10,000,000 visitors a year the majority of farang never have a problem.

its only when some tossers get out of control that stories like this hit the news.

even though i cant side with the thais behaviour when they are confronted with such shocking behaviour, nether can i condem them as things are settled thaiway and always will be.

besides that ive been coming here 20 years and never had a problem and thats because i behave myself, so i find it very hard to side with farang when they cause trouble.

thank you very much.

[ThaiGoon]

Interesting that every single time a crime is committed by a Thai (or Thais), there's never a shortage of the so called "civilized" and "educated" farangs on TV who can't wait to make a sweeping generalization about Thailand and all Thai people as a whole. I wonder if these same "civilized" and "educated" people do the same to other Western countires where this type of crime also has definitely occured. Maybe they just do it to a country like Thailand because we are a backwater country and they of course are of a superior race and culture. So we, Thais, must all be the same while they, of course, are all individuals.

Anyway, condolences to the victim's family. I hope the culprit(s) will rightly be brought to justice soon.

[ando]

Thais suppress a lot of anger to save face and avoid conflict.

Its a different culture with different social rules from what we westerners are used to. First impressions of the western tourists is that the Thais are always smiling and never seem to take offence at anything.

But push a Thai too far and when the smile turns to anger that flood of suppressed feelings comes out big time.

When in Thailand we must learn to live under THEIR rules. Spitting in someones face, especially in front of their friends is almost certain to get an unrestrained violent response, which may well end up in death if a weapon is handy. This is just the way it is in Thailand. If you cant accept it, best to go home and dont come back.

I think a lot of tourists tend to think Thais are meek and subservient because they put up with so much abuse from tourists on occasions. They just dont realize that behind the smile there could be a bomb waiting to go off.

The fact is that most Thais dont particularly like foreign tourists despite the welcoming facade. And I guess that's not much different from any country. Just the Thais are are a lot more welcoming.

The misconception that some tourists develop that Thais are weak, compromising and submissive can suddenly explode into violence when a tourist pushes the Thai etiquette of smiling to save face too far. Its a cultural misunderstanding that can and has often led to the death of a tourist.

In the West we tend to think of a street fight or bar-room brawl as something of a fun event as romanticized in the movies with the looser getting knocked out or perhaps a bloody nose. In Thai culture its a huge loss of face to loose your cool (jai lawn) and resort to violence. Once it has started there are no social inhibitions to restrain the level of injury on the opponent. This is just the way it is.

Like it or not, or whether it fits into your western ideal of how things ought to be, this is the way things are in Thailand. And if you dont like it, best dont come, or at least behave yourself and treat the Thai people with dignity as I know most tourists do.

[Brutiniero]

"Thais suppress a lot of anger to save face and avoid conflict.

Its a different culture with different social rules from what we westerners are used to. First impressions of the western tourists is that the Thais are always smiling and never seem to take offence at anything.

But push a Thai too far and when the smile turns to anger that flood of suppressed feelings comes out big time."

Finally somebody came to the point and @Thaigoon: " Nobody is bashing Thais for their behaivour, its a cultural thing."

Good and Bads are everywhere, I am only suprised to hear so bad news about Israel tourist manners. The sign that they a not wanted at a hotel in PhiPhi .... I am speachless.

In the end I have no experience with that, but guess that they aren't the cream of Israels society either.

[davidjtayler]

It seems to me that all parties in general (not this specific case) both farang and Thai could benfit from a little education....

Foreign people coming to Thailand on Thai culture and how to behave appropriately and respectfully and Thai people residing in and working in tourist areas on how to react calmly to different situations involving foreign people.

Highlighting specific examples of poor behaviour from both sides as well as examples of alternative good behaviour that could avoid potential lethal situations and may well open some eyes and lower overall violent outcomes between locals and tourists.

At the end of the day its all about respecting each other and unfortunately late at night when alcohol and other substances may be involved this can sometimes be forgotten.

[t.s]

Drugs, alcohol and young men; deadly combination...

yes, that is why i avoid young men.

Having spent many an FMP in Haadrin surrounded by pumped up young isreali lads fresh out of the service, i have seen how agressive and obnoxious they can be, however the drop-in bar is rife with this kind of violent activity and is notorious for its gang of bar boys.

a number of years back i was very strongly admonished for having a conversation with a an irish girl who was sitting at the bar, apparantly drinking free as her "boyfreind" tended bar. I was approached by him and told he would stab me if i continued talking to her.

i have seen bottles smashed over heads, random attacks and all sorts of violence outside this place, and it is often some

[ThaiGoon]

"Nobody is bashing Thais for their behaivour, its a cultural thing."

Try to go back a few pages, and you might see a comment like Thais are "dumb animals."

Anyway I do appreciate all the valid and constructive comments in this thread. It was just a few individuals that my first comment in this thread was directed to.

[t.s]

"Thais suppress a lot of anger to save face and avoid conflict.

Its a different culture with different social rules from what we westerners are used to. First impressions of the western tourists is that the Thais are always smiling and never seem to take offence at anything.

But push a Thai too far and when the smile turns to anger that flood of suppressed feelings comes out big time."

Finally somebody came to the point and @Thaigoon: " Nobody is bashing Thais for their behaivour, its a cultural thing."

Good and Bads are everywhere, I am only suprised to hear so bad news about Israel tourist manners. The sign that they a not wanted at a hotel in PhiPhi .... I am speachless.

In the end I have no experience with that, but guess that they aren't the cream of Israels society either.

this has nothing to do with thai culture and supressed anger. this has to do with a bunch of violent young thai guys who have always belived they could do whatever they want. these guys are known for this sort of behavior, they do this a few times a year, this time somebody died. usually the sticking point occurs over the "honour" of one of the young female travellers that they are both shagging and fleecing.

[dog412]

It saddens me to hear about the violent tendencies of young Thai men. It seems that they feel that any loss of face for them should be punished by the deatht penalty or severe gang violence. From the stories I keep hearing the moral issues of what is right seem irrelevant to many young Thai men.

If Thailand wants to attract a better class of tourist, like I keep hearing about, at minimum they need to ensure the basic safety of such tourists (all tourists). When old Thai hands speak of not daring to stand up for your self even when you are right, because Thais will kill you, or seriously injure you by gang violence, over minor issues, something is very wrong.

Severe penalties must be enforced on any one who engages in such violence Thai or farang. If a weapon is used the penalties should be harsher.

From SBK's posting I gather that the the farang murdered was not a very nice person. However, the death penalty was out of order for his obnoxious behavior.

ok fair enough, so lets turn your story around the other way.

how about when farang step foot in thailand, they realise they are guests in this country and its there privilage to be here.

all they have to do is be respectful to the thai and country, have a cracking good time without getting out of control and they will never have a problem.

its pathetic to continually blame the thai for there behaviour when confronted by recalcitrant farangs.

we all know that the thai overeact, but thats they way it is and will always be like this, so how about behaving ones self.

its not very hard you know, and considering thailand has 10,000,000 visitors a year the majority of farang never have a problem.

its only when some tossers get out of control that stories like this hit the news.

even though i cant side with the thais behaviour when they are confronted with such shocking behaviour, nether can i condem them as things are settled thaiway and always will be.

besides that ive been coming here 20 years and never had a problem and thats because i behave myself, so i find it very hard to side with farang when they cause trouble.

thank you very much.

from reading your post's on this thread, i must admit, maybe you have a point. maybe the 10,000,000 visitors coming here should be given a heads up as to to the mindset they are coming to. to the europeans, topless and thong bathing attire is inappropriate to thai culture, and may result in the mindset that the offender is seen as being "disrespectful" to Thai culture. it's pretty uptight here. this is at the beach. their is NO criticism permitted, except in an almost solo esoteric understanding of which you would be not privy. years would be a understatement to gain this insight. just remember, it is a given "Privilege" for you to come and spend your money here, and , of course, you are at the same time a guest. welcome to Thailand, please be careful. respect or culture, as we do.

[Espina]

Just for the contrast I googled "killed in bar brawl" to see what would pop up:

Calangute waiter killed in brawl with tourists

BY HERALD CORRESPONDENT

MAPUSA, MARCH 4 — A waiter of a bar and restaurant at Umtavaddo, Calangute who was brutally attacked by two young tourists succumbed to his injuries at the Goa Medical College early Sunday morning.

The deceased has been identified as Dashrath Rathore resident of Bijapur. A case under section 302 IPC (murder) has been registered against the accused Aman Singh and Jasbinder Singh both residents of Chandigarh.

Calangute police claimed that both the accused were nabbed at the Dabolim airport on Sunday evening while they were trying to flee from the State.

According to police, the accused both students studying in Australia were on a holiday trip to Goa. The duo who were putting up at Mandrem, visited Calangute beach on Saturday afternoon.

The two accused who were interrogated stated that they picked up a quarrel with a waiter.

Following some heated arguments, the duo were given a sound thrashing by the other waiters. In a fit of rage one of the accused pulled out a knife and stabbed the victim and disappeared from the scene. The victim who suffered abdominal injuries was rushed to the GMC where he succumbed to his injuries at 3 am on Sunday.

Calangute police are conducting the further investigations into the case.

...Gee whiz, it seems that bar brawls between tourist patrons and bar staff are not exclusive to Thailand...

Sadly, I wish could offer a solution or some method of resolution but I can't. It's really up to the cops to be called before the event, rather than after, but then if this happpened , every bar-stool ex-pat pundit would be screaming thier lungs out about the more visible police presence wrecking thier memories of the "real Thailand".

[andook]

This type of incident happens all over the world where there are bars, booze, and and young guys. Young guys wanting to drink and fight are not common to just Thailand or the UK, believe it or not...

Tragic, blah blah. Darwin Awards all round.

[dog412]

Interesting that every single time a crime is committed by a Thai (or Thais), there's never a shortage of the so called "civilized" and "educated" farangs on TV who can't wait to make a sweeping generalization about Thailand and all Thai people as a whole. I wonder if these same "civilized" and "educated" people do the same to other Western countires where this type of crime also has definitely occured. Maybe they just do it to a country like Thailand because we are a backwater country and they of course are of a superior race and culture. So we, Thais, must all be the same while they, of course, are all individuals.

Anyway, condolences to the victim's family. I hope the culprit(s) will rightly be brought to justice soon.

Thaigoon, as you know this is a forum about Thailand. however, it amazes me that you do not see the amount of criticism directed by and at many of the foreigners own home countries. many to a very extreme point of view. as a aside, i have read your quick criticism's of "foreign" entities with no such reciprocation against your home country. up to you. while it happens everywhere, what could possibly be the mindset to stab a stranger to death? only a sickness i presume.

[meadish_sweetball]

Bar brawls happen everywhere, but they usually do not end up in anybody getting stabbed to death.

Not in Thailand either. That same night there were probably several other bar brawls around the Kingdom that never escalated to this level.

While it can never be stressed enough that it is extremely important to behave oneself and respect Thais and their culture, it is not as if every single Thai would pull a knife and stab you, even if you spat beer in his face. Just in case someone was labouring under that misconception. (and please do not take this as a recommendation to test if it is true or not.)

Should it not be possible to treat this incident as a very unfortunate occurrance without us all suddenly having to psychoanalyse Israeli and/or Thai culture? Sure, some aspects of it may be relevant, but then again, in an individual case such as this - it's the facts of there and then that count. Facts we still do not have. All we have is some scattered news reports and hearsay which may or may not prove to be what actually went down.

It's usually wise to keep a low profile, and to think twice before acting - or typing. Other people do judge you by your actions and words.

[t.s]

it should be never , ever drink or associate with groups of thai males who are drinking unless you know them or are familiar with their class and their background.

So I should fear all groups of Thai men in a bar/drinking?

not fear, a wary respect.

[richard10365]

I don't think it is a matter of deserving to be murdered but it is comparable to walking blindfolded into high speed traffic during rush hour. On coming drivers will hit the brakes but chances are the person will be hit and probably killed.

He might not have deserved it, but his actions helped the end result come about.

[ThaiGoon]

while it happens everywhere, what could possibly be the mindset to stab a stranger to death? only a sickness i presume.

Yeah, almost the same kind of sickness that a couple of Australian serial killers who in the late 90's picked up random foreign backpakcers and then killed them senseless in the nearby woods, had I suppose. The point is this kind of sickness is not exclusive to Thais.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by this, "as you know this is a forum about Thailand." Are you saying that it's a forum about Thailand so it's a smart and wise thing to generalize the country and the people everytime a crime commited by Thais happens?

P.S. Here's the story about the backpacker murders: http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/crime/se...rer/index.shtml (It actually happened in the early 90's.) And before anyone will misunderstand my intention, I'm posting it to show that I wasn't making up the story, not to bash every Australian.

Edited April 3, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

Bar brawls happen everywhere, but they usually do not end up in anybody getting stabbed to death.

Not in Thailand either. That same night there were probably several other bar brawls around the Kingdom that never escalated to this level.

While it can never be stressed enough that it is extremely important to behave oneself and respect Thais and their culture, it is not as if every single Thai would pull a knife and stab you, even if you spat beer in his face. Just in case someone was labouring under that misconception. (and please do not take this as a recommendation to test if it is true or not.)

Should it not be possible to treat this incident as a very unfortunate occurrance without us all suddenly having to psychoanalyse Israeli and/or Thai culture? Sure, some aspects of it may be relevant, but then again, in an individual case such as this - it's the facts of there and then that count. Facts we still do not have. All we have is some scattered news reports and hearsay which may or may not prove to be what actually went down.

It's usually wise to keep a low profile, and to think twice before acting - or typing. Other people do judge you by your actions and words.

[highdiver]

I have been reading the post on this thread for the past 48hours and I would like to offer a different perspective.

As per israelies... i have been also in the tour business in samui for the past 10 years and have met many of them. they tend to be very fun loving loud and sometimes rude but the are also warm hearted and give great tips.

They tend to travel in groups as it gives them a sense of security that if in trouble they have someone to help. when ever an israeli is in trouble others wuld come in to help and assit in any way including money. Something I never seen with any other nationality.

They are very aware of prices and rates and respond impolite when someone is trying to rip them off. Some on this thread have mentioned "tight" with cash. They are very aware of the prices and charges as the information on where to go where to eat and drink is passed amongst them, So they are very aware when someone is making an attempt to rip them of.

A Thai travel agent on Samui has told me that the reason most Thai's dont like the Israeli attitude is that in most cases they speak

the truth and dont want to pay the rip of prices that other tourist gladly pay for.

They way in which they respond is based on the nature of Israelis to call it as it is. while most tourist anf thais will walk away from a rip of, some of the israelis beahaving as they would in israel argue about it. unfortunatley this minority is giving many israelis a bad reputation.

As per Terry,s famous hit man story... this is a fine example of how things can realy go wrong.

So lats look at the facts as terry tells them.

an Israeli rents a bike and brings it back broken. The farrang sets a price to repair the bike. the israeli disagrees and the Thai partner is then called in. when not reaching a decision they offer to take him to the Police.

BUT.... instead of going to the police they taking to a former police man that has a gun and when the gun is placed the israeli pays the demanded money.

SO... instead of going to the real police or the tourist police to handle that.. the farrang and his thai partner decide to use a hit man and extort the money... what a wonderfull example of true justice. and they seem so proud of it.

In a normal situation they could have gone to the tourist police and pressed charges and the real police would end this event with out the need to pull out a gun.

The same thing happened to me when i first came to thailand. the bike shop owner told me that I have dammaged his "brand new" bike and asked to be paid 7000 baht. I told him that i would fix it myself and bring the bike back. the repair ended up costing 600 baht.

many farrangs have been extorted for money, and riped of and those who are doing it give thailand a bad name.

After being here for so long and learning the lingo it surprises me how many thais actually use the Phrase"its ok Farrang has money, Farrang can pay" and they are realy hurt, insulted, and rude when you disapprove of them trying to rip you off with bogus excuses. dont get me wtrong I love thailand and love its people but as with the Israelis it only takes a few bad apples that are giving service to tourists to give many wonderful thais a bad name.

Terry was correct that this is the way things are done in Thailand. This has been going on for so long young Thai teen agers are thrilled with this "wild west" attitude and assume that violence is the right way to resolve issues.

It is not surprrising at all that a few years later a bar brawl ends with a dead tourist. or that the general perception is that anything goes...rape, stabing, extorting etc..

It will not be long before another farrang can find himself on the other side of the table with a gun to his head. because someone decided that to clear things up the Thai way and call the hit man. it will not be long before another murder happens.

As per Lap lao

thank you for being a solid rock of sense and sticking to the facts. at this point of time no one realy knows why the fight broke out and if there was or not provocation, spitting etc... As the truth usualy has many sides it will be difficult to know what realy happened.

The only true fact is that a person a human was killed. such a waste it so terrible.

[southwest19]

while it happens everywhere, what could possibly be the mindset to stab a stranger to death? only a sickness i presume.

Yeah, almost the same kind of sickness that a couple of Australian serial killers who in the late 90's picked up random foreign backpakcers and then killed them senseless in the nearby woods, had I suppose. The point is this kind of sickness is not exclusive to Thais.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by this, "as you know this is a forum about Thailand." Are you saying that it's a forum about Thailand so it's a smart and wise thing to generalize the country and the people everytime a crime commited by Thais happens?

P.S. Here's the story about the backpacker murders: http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/crime/se...rer/index.shtml (It actually happened in the early 90's.) And before anyone will misunderstand my intention, I'm posting it to show that I wasn't making up the story, not to bash every Australian.

I have many Thai friends some I have known for many years who are good honest people and would not dream of sticking a knife into someone who alledgedly spat a drink in their face, though they would be deeply offended and so would I if someone did that to me.

The big difference is when murders happen in the west and a suspect is apprehended the police cannot be bought off and generally you serve a long period of time in jail and in some countries you receive the death sentence.

If Thailand wants to continue to attract the tourist dollar then the authorities have to show they will not tolerate this kind of crime and if it does happen whether the victim be Thai or farang the punishment will be extremely severe.

[taxexile]

A Thai travel agent on Samui has told me that the reason most Thai's dont like the Israeli attitude is that in most cases they speak

the truth and dont want to pay the rip of prices that other tourist gladly pay for.

a very good and valid point.

As per Terry,s famous hit man story... this is a fine example of how things can realy go wrong.

So lats look at the facts as terry tells them.

an Israeli rents a bike and brings it back broken. The farrang sets a price to repair the bike. the israeli disagrees and the Thai partner is then called in. when not reaching a decision they offer to take him to the Police.

BUT.... instead of going to the police they taking to a former police man that has a gun and when the gun is placed the israeli pays the demanded money.

SO... instead of going to the real police or the tourist police to handle that.. the farrang and his thai partner decide to use a hit man and extort the money... what a wonderfull example of true justice. and they seem so proud of it.

another excellent comment.

After being here for so long and learning the lingo it surprises me how many thais actually use the Phrase"its ok Farrang has money, Farrang can pay" and they are realy hurt, insulted, and rude when you disapprove of them trying to rip you off with bogus excuses. dont get me wtrong I love thailand and love its people but as with the Israelis it only takes a few bad apples that are giving service to tourists to give many wonderful thais a bad name.

and another.

a spot on post.

[ThaiGoon]

The big difference is when murders happen in the west and a suspect is apprehended the police cannot be bought off and generally you serve a long period of time in jail and in some countries you receive the death sentence.

Do you seriously believe that in the West, the police cannot be bought off by rich and influential people? Really? Seriously?

I do agree, however, that the corruption among law enforcement officers in Thailand has to be reduced. But please spare me of this "everything is so perfect and dandy in the west" please.

[dog412]

while it happens everywhere, what could possibly be the mindset to stab a stranger to death? only a sickness i presume.

Yeah, almost the same kind of sickness that a couple of Australian serial killers who in the late 90's picked up random foreign backpakcers and then killed them senseless in the nearby woods, had I suppose. The point is this kind of sickness is not exclusive to Thais.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by this, "as you know this is a forum about Thailand." Are you saying that it's a forum about Thailand so it's a smart and wise thing to generalize the country and the people everytime a crime commited by Thais happens?

P.S. Here's the story about the backpacker murders: http://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/crime/se...rer/index.shtml (It actually happened in the early 90's.) And before anyone will misunderstand my intention, I'm posting it to show that I wasn't making up the story, not to bash every Australian.

I guess what i was trying to say was, that using your own example, if this was a australian forum, yes , we , or someone, would be berating bloody hel_l at the idiotic and down right barbarism of idiots with this type of mentality to perpetuate these type of violent actions. their are many forums in this world, take your choice. I will, however ,understand your feelings of being attacked, I am American, I get it from all sides. rise above.

[southwest19]

The big difference is when murders happen in the west and a suspect is apprehended the police cannot be bought off and generally you serve a long period of time in jail and in some countries you receive the death sentence.

Do you seriously believe that in the West, the police cannot be bought off by rich and influential people? Really? Seriously?

I do agree, however, that the corruption among law enforcement officers in Thailand has to be reduced. But please spare me of this "everything is so perfect and dandy in the west" please.

I am not suggesting for one minute that wealthy people do not have influence at times the west but we are hardly talking about a bunch of Thai stockbrokers here, we are talking about a bunch of thugs who committed murder and yes the chances of them being bought to justice after committing a public murder is a ###### site higher then it is here.

[ThaiGoon]

I guess what i was trying to say was, that using your own example, if this was a australian forum, yes , we , or someone, would be berating bloody hel_l at the idiotic and down right barbarism of idiots with this type of mentality to perpetuate these type of violent actions. their are many forums in this world, take your choice. I will, however ,understand your feelings of being attacked, I am American, I get it from all sides. rise above.

So you are saying that since this is a forum about Thailand, I should tolerate and keep quiet whenever some farang morons wanna bash my country and the people with their idiotic senseless sweeping generalizations? Interesting.