18 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have some experience translating the gobbly-gook of WB reports.

 

"Thailand; unless you reform your Education System greatly, you will forever remain a backwards, low-growth country that perpetually envies more advanced places. And, all of your neighbours (beginning with Vietnam) will surpass you over time (including Burma). Period."

 

The key to this report, although they don't say it plainly, is that the growth of productivity requires a well-educated workforce. And, a well-educated workforce requires massive, massive reforms in all levels of the Thai Education system.

 

Step 1. Enter the Headquarters building of the Thai Education Ministry and fire everyone working there. Immediately. Literally everyone. These people created and perpetuate the current hideous, child's brain-killing monster.

 

Step 2. Enter the office of every Provincial Education Ministry office in the land and fire the top ten staffers. Immediately.

 

Yes, this might sound dramatic, but it is a serious proposal. These are the people who created the current, unsustainable, Frankensteinian-working mess and there is no doubt in my mind that they are unable to fix it. Fire them today, literally today.

 

Step 3. A massive audit of how Education System monies are spent to catch all the theft. Fire at will. Fire thousands. Then fire another thousand or two 'pour encourager les autres'.

 

Step 4. Make each Head of School responsible for the grades of their students and unless more than 50% of students pass the standard test each year, fire them. Immediately.

 

Then, begin the real reform of the Education System. With a chain saw.

 

I am completely serious about every word in this post; it is only the blueprint to getting started...

 

 

 

Serious you may be, realistic you are not.  Keep dreaming.

I got your reality check right here, World Bank...

 

Thailand may have low wages, but it also has very low poverty rates.

 

Australia, United Kingdom, Japan, Germany and the United States all have high wages and much higher poverty rates than Thailand.

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/wealth-distribution-income-inequality

 

 

Are people in the high wage countries happier than people in Thailand?

 

Are you f---ing kidding me? ????????????????

 

Nope.  Not that I've seen.  The British are morose, Germans are uptight, Japanese are depressed and Americans are just plain crazy. 

 

Not sure what Australians are....thirsty?  Drowning your sorrows, mates? ????

 

Conclusion: More money increases poverty and decreases your happiness. Ignore the World Bank.  The only thing they're interested in is making the Bankers richer.  They don't give a damn about poor people. ✓

 

 

Edited January 18, 20206 yr by SiSePuede419

What does it say about a country when only the street walkers/bar girls and ladyboys speak a smattering of English ? The average knowledge of Thai students is incredibly low. I was told by Thai friends in Bangkok years ago that you could get your kids higher grades if the money was right. Similar to India.The poor people in Thailand are oppressed and have no future. I see more and more homeless families on the streets, and more drunks/drugged than ever before !  Shame.

This is just recycling the same issues and arguments using different articles so that the same posters can bicker and slag off the government and anyone associated with running it, tiresome and not useful.

5 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

So what about retirees on a fixed pension?

 

they'll be retiring elsewhere 

2 minutes ago, geisha said:

What does it say about a country when only the street walkers/bar girls and ladyboys speak a smattering of English ? The average knowledge of Thai students is incredibly low. I was told by Thai friends in Bangkok years ago that you could get your kids higher grades if the money was right. Similar to India.The poor people in Thailand are oppressed and have no future. I see more and more homeless families on the streets, and more drunks/drugged than ever before !  Shame.

 

hiso kids speak excellent english in fact many families i know of its first language even at home. as one of my friends told me when i commented on it "of course the we speak english at home, cannot conduct (international) business in thai!"

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

Why does no one on this forum EVER talk about moving to Switzerland or Singapore or Dubai ?? One big reason they are hella expensive.....

 

I would move to Singapore tomorrow if we could get the visa....and in summer we would go to Austria....

 

Those are not more expensive than Holland/Paris/London...also Tokyo isn't.

 

And they are not expensive compared to Thailand since the quality of EVERYTHING there is much higher than in Thailand.

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

Lets not forget high income nations have very high consumer prices....

 

Why does no one on this forum EVER talk about moving to Switzerland or Singapore or Dubai ?? One big reason they are hella expensive.....

 

They have said over and over and over They want Thailand to move past the middle income trap...In other words they WANT THAILAND TO BE A EXPENSIVE PLACE....

Yes.  People brag about how great Singapore is.  I came here to get away from places like that.  High priced concrete jungle.  People constantly complaining Thailand needs to do this or that.  They are clueless it is just going to raise prices big time.

 

Yes. The problem at hand is that the fingerprints of mad Uncle Too and his shower of armed interlopers cannot now successfully be razed from what has become the tragedy of political Thailand.. In other words mad Uncle Too is largely responsible for the fiasco that is Thailand today. Unfortunately the world has moved on from the days of mad Uncle Too’s youth. These days nobody cares who is doing it for; or for what (he thinks is a) worthy purpose. The whole concept of Armed Forces taking over a government is anathema to most thinking people these days, and the disdain in which Mr Prayuth is held by other world leaders, which is evident from the photo shoots which inevitably proceed from world leader meetings is clear and obvious. So while I don't disagree with any of Samuel's comments regarding the education problem in Thailand, the malaise extends far and wide, so that the same techniques he recommends be adopted to transform the education department, really need to be applied on a much wider basis.

 

Still, the wheel is turning, times have changed and it is not his fault or mine that mad Uncle Too appears to be locked in a time warp for which there is (for him and his band of merry men) no obvious escape which allows him/them to remain living in Thailand in the long-term. The cultural conventions which have bound the hands and minds of the Thai people for generations are being overturned. Anyone who cannot see this in events in society, is, in my view, just not paying attention.

 

The wheel will continue to turn and the longer the interlopers remain in power, the more bloody the final outcome is likely to be. Of course they won't take any notice of this, Thais always know best.

ed reprobates have been in power for long enough that their

 

What does it say about a country when only the street walkers/bar girls and ladyboys speak a smattering of English ?

 

That they're smarter than foreigners who can't speak Thai at all? ????

Edited January 18, 20206 yr by SiSePuede419

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.  People brag about how great Singapore is.  I came here to get away from places like that.  High priced concrete jungle.  People constantly complaining Thailand needs to do this or that.  They are clueless it is just going to raise prices big time.

 

 That's as may be. Fortunately, there is little prospect that major changes going to happen at the grassroots of Thailand in the future which either you or I are going to experience in the short-term. For this reason, I think your fear of Thailand becoming a new Singapore is unlikely to be realised.

 

The days of Thailand being essentially a private piggy bank for a single group of people are very quickly coming to a close, and no groups of semi-educated senior Armed Forces hangers-on is going to be able to persuade the Thai population that they need to be in charge in order to protect the Thai culture or the way things have usually been done in Thailand.

 

It's no secret that I do not have much regard for the intelligence of Thai people but even Thai people are not infinitely stupid, and from listening to the scuttlebutt around the place, I can tell you that things are changing. Slowly perhaps, but changing nonetheless.

19 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have some experience translating the gobbly-gook of WB reports.

 

"Thailand; unless you reform your Education System greatly, you will forever remain a backwards, low-growth country that perpetually envies more advanced places. And, all of your neighbours (beginning with Vietnam) will surpass you over time (including Burma). Period."

 

The key to this report, although they don't say it plainly, is that the growth of productivity requires a well-educated workforce. And, a well-educated workforce requires massive, massive reforms in all levels of the Thai Education system.

 

Step 1. Enter the Headquarters building of the Thai Education Ministry and fire everyone working there. Immediately. Literally everyone. These people created and perpetuate the current hideous, child's brain-killing monster.

 

Step 2. Enter the office of every Provincial Education Ministry office in the land and fire the top ten staffers. Immediately.

 

Yes, this might sound dramatic, but it is a serious proposal. These are the people who created the current, unsustainable, Frankensteinian-working mess and there is no doubt in my mind that they are unable to fix it. Fire them today, literally today.

 

Step 3. A massive audit of how Education System monies are spent to catch all the theft. Fire at will. Fire thousands. Then fire another thousand or two 'pour encourager les autres'.

 

Step 4. Make each Head of School responsible for the grades of their students and unless more than 50% of students pass the standard test each year, fire them. Immediately.

 

Then, begin the real reform of the Education System. With a chain saw.

 

I am completely serious about every word in this post; it is only the blueprint to getting started...

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said. However, we must at least consider the root cause of why the educational system is one of the world's worst. Could it be that those in power, and the elite want it to be that way? After all, nearly all their kids go to private schools, and attend university abroad. So, do they care? And do they want a well education, informed and curious populace? 

7 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

What does it say about a country when only the street walkers/bar girls and ladyboys speak a smattering of English ?

 

They're smarter than foreigners who can't speak Thai at all? ????

The situation is more complex than you suggest. The ubiquitous surprise that Thai people display when a foreigner speaks pretty good Thai has little to do with reason. It has everything to do with the wider culture with which Thai people are afflicted from birth.

 

There are many foreigners who speak pretty good Thai, but they are not understood, or perhaps (which is more likely) Thai people pretend not to understand them. It has little to do with the expertise or otherwise possessed by the foreigners and more to do with the fact many Thai people believe, firstly their language is the best language in the world and secondly that only Thai people are really worthy to be able to speak it - this has more than a little to do with the mythological source of the language.

 

The reality is quite different - the Thai language is a primitive language which doesn't stay in one place for very long, it changes. It is ideally suited for a primitive population which in figurative terms have only recently clambered down from the trees.

 

 

1 hour ago, BestB said:

How does Thailand improve productivity when in general people do not want to work but go to work and do as little as possible or do nothing at all.

 

Yes could blame education but they all managed to figure out how to use Facebook just unable to figure out how to use google for simple self education 

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

The world bank is completely out of touch, when they state that private consumption is on it's way up. No idea where they dug up this information, but from everything I have heard, everything I have read, and all of the merchants, hoteliers, restaurant owners, and others I have spoken with, quite the opposite is the case. No amount of fiction is going to change that fact. The people are scared. The economy is faltering. Manufacturing and foreign investment is down. Tourism is getting decimated. The real estate market is very soft, in most sectors. 

 

Thailand is headed toward a world of hurt, when it comes to their economy, and the under qualified goons in charge have no real answers. 

Edited January 18, 20206 yr by spidermike007

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree with everything you said. However, we must at least consider the root cause of why the educational system is one of the world's worst. Could it be that those in power, and the elite want it to be that way? After all, nearly all their kids go to private schools, and attend university abroad. So, do they care? And do they want a well education, informed and curious populace? 

Indeed, Thailand does not have an education system, it's a indoctrination system, their society would collapse without it, last thing the "elites" want!

28 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

Very similar to the stranglehold the Catholic church had over Europe in the Dark Ages (death penalty for anyone but clergy knowing how to read and/or write) and still why they're against birth control. Having large families leaves you only time to try to keep them fed, not educated, therefore not capable or interested in challenging the status quo. It's a vicious circle.

As someone posted there are good schools.

The problem is you have to pay for them and most Thais can not afford to send there kids there.

There is only a small amount of room at the top and  the elite get all those jobs.

The elite are happy to have a poor standard of education at the low end income working people, as they don't need pressure on their own.

Saying that, they will pounce on children who are genius level and provide them with scholarships and jobs.

 

It is similar world wide with many coming out of university with law degrees and end up working in supermarkets as no room at the top for them unless they are connected.

Very sad world we have these days.

Thailand is not going to "first world" status, but the "first world" is coming soon to Thailand status...so why worry?

 

While Thailand has remained stuck decades back, other have climbed a mountain (of debt and other things) and are discovering that behind the top of this mountain lies a very slippery slope...

 

The fact that the baht appears to go up only shows that the major currencies are already sliding down...and this is far from over.

 

In tomorrow's world of pain, Thai people will be among the happiest because they won't miss the good ol' days.

 

In yesterday's world, Thailand's situation was pathetic, but in tomorrow's world Thailand may well one of the "cleanest dirty shirts".

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree with everything you said. However, we must at least consider the root cause of why the educational system is one of the world's worst. Could it be that those in power, and the elite want it to be that way? After all, nearly all their kids go to private schools, and attend university abroad. So, do they care? And do they want a well education, informed and curious populace? 

 

That sums up the true situation pretty well. the fiasco which is the Thai education system is not accidental, it has developed through a more or less unique combination of malice of forethought and an almost transcendental incompetence.

 

 

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Indeed, Thailand does not have an education system, it's a indoctrination system, their society would collapse without it, last thing the "elites" want!

Chulalongkorn University is considered the best higher learning institute in the nation. It is ranked 446 in the world. What does that tell you?

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Chulalongkorn University is considered the best higher learning institute in the nation. It is ranked 446 in the world. What does that tell you?

That they paid to be elevated higher than there true place? 

There are many foreigners who speak pretty good Thai, but they are not understood...

 

Agree with you for all the complex reasons you stated.

 

Another reason is our brains aren't tuned for tonal language.

 

Heard a Chinese woman at the Immigration office trying to renew her visa.  Her Thai pronunciation was much more natural sounding than mine.  Perhaps this is because Mandarin is tonal? I wonder how good Vietnam speakers of Thai sound, since that's also tonal?

 

Yeah, the moo ping vendor this morning was impressed I could speak a little Thai.

 

But the other day, I ordered Khao Suay and they thought I said Khao Soi.  Suay and Soi sound nothing alike.

 

Perhaps it's because foreigners typically order Khao Soi and don't use the Thai expression "Khao Suay" for White rice?

 

IMHO, reading Thai is the most difficult language in the world.  Google Translate Camera can't read it.  Chinese is easy by comparison: one symbol, one word.

 

 

8 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

 

IMHO, reading Thai is the most difficult language in the world.  Google Translate Camera can't read it.  Chinese is easy by comparison: one symbol, one word.

 

 

True, this is called "scriptura continua", or writing without separations and punctuation, a system that was abandonned around 1500 in Europe, but has remained, for some mysterious reasons (not being colonized probably one of these reasons), in Thailand (and in cousin Laos too).

 

The result is that Thai brains are wired differently, they are still deciphering, while the others are interpreting...a world of difference, which explains a lot...

Thailand’s lowly and worsening position in the PISA educational tables which measures 15 year olds are a depressing glimpse into the future along with googling IQ by country. 

"Productivity isn’t everything but in the end it’s almost everything ".

20 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have some experience translating the gobbly-gook of WB reports.

 

"Thailand; unless you reform your Education System greatly, you will forever remain a backwards, low-growth country that perpetually envies more advanced places. And, all of your neighbours (beginning with Vietnam) will surpass you over time (including Burma). Period."

 

The key to this report, although they don't say it plainly, is that the growth of productivity requires a well-educated workforce. And, a well-educated workforce requires massive, massive reforms in all levels of the Thai Education system.

 

Step 1. Enter the Headquarters building of the Thai Education Ministry and fire everyone working there. Immediately. Literally everyone. These people created and perpetuate the current hideous, child's brain-killing monster.

 

Step 2. Enter the office of every Provincial Education Ministry office in the land and fire the top ten staffers. Immediately.

 

Yes, this might sound dramatic, but it is a serious proposal. These are the people who created the current, unsustainable, Frankensteinian-working mess and there is no doubt in my mind that they are unable to fix it. Fire them today, literally today.

 

Step 3. A massive audit of how Education System monies are spent to catch all the theft. Fire at will. Fire thousands. Then fire another thousand or two 'pour encourager les autres'.

 

Step 4. Make each Head of School responsible for the grades of their students and unless more than 50% of students pass the standard test each year, fire them. Immediately.

 

Then, begin the real reform of the Education System. With a chain saw.

 

I am completely serious about every word in this post; it is only the blueprint to getting started...

 

 

 

I can save  much  more  time..........."we  will listen to none of this and  carry on as ever"

18 hours ago, DrTuner said:

1. Get rid of the military

 

That'll go a long way.

Quite the reverse. The military set up anti corruption committees, especially the saw paw taw, which has reduced corruption remarkably.

38 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

There are many foreigners who speak pretty good Thai, but they are not understood...

 

Agree with you for all the complex reasons you stated.

 

Another reason is our brains aren't tuned for tonal language.

 

Heard a Chinese woman at the Immigration office trying to renew her visa.  Her Thai pronunciation was much more natural sounding than mine.  Perhaps this is because Mandarin is tonal? I wonder how good Vietnam speakers of Thai sound, since that's also tonal?

 

Yeah, the moo ping vendor this morning was impressed I could speak a little Thai.

 

But the other day, I ordered Khao Suay and they thought I said Khao Soi.  Suay and Soi sound nothing alike.

 

Perhaps it's because foreigners typically order Khao Soi and don't use the Thai expression "Khao Suay" for White rice?

 

IMHO, reading Thai is the most difficult language in the world.  Google Translate Camera can't read it.  Chinese is easy by comparison: one symbol, one word.

 

 

Thai is easy. Ever tried Hungarian or Finish, I have.

Wealthy countries MAKE THINGS.  If you look at the wealthy countries of the world.  The USA, China, Germany, Japan, and the U.K.  All of them make products.  Wealth is created when humans add value to raw materials and produce finished products.  The educated work force is great if you are moving to the next step when you have an economy that requires CPA.s, Engineers, Computer Technicians.  However you don't leap frog to that when your only economy is based on tourism and selling natural resources.  With computers the requirement for skilled blue collar workers is diminished.  You need a favorable government policy to encourage companies to locate their manufacturing plants in Thailand versus someplace else.  That will employ Thai's and raise the standard of living for those people and the service providers who sell them clothes, food, cars, etc. 

 

3 hours ago, thailand49 said:

fixing it would mean those in power slowly will not the care more about themselves than their own people!  But of course Thai don't know that.

Enough of the Thai bashing, this could be said of many governments in the world.

 

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Quite the reverse. The military set up anti corruption committees, especially the saw paw taw, which has reduced corruption remarkably.

Corruption committees that consist of proven corrupted MP's? Sounds great