Again Sorry

[thunder road]

o.k. so i do my 90 days within the six months, i then leave for a few weeks and return with no visa, do you simply start again with another 90 days of border runs or do you need a visa. Sorry im just catching up with this farce.

[Crossy]

o.k. so i do my 90 days within the six months, i then leave for a few weeks and return with no visa, do you simply start again with another 90 days of border runs or do you need a visa. Sorry im just catching up with this farce.

OK, this is my interpretation of how the rules are operating, others my vary, of course they're welcome to drop in they views

1. You are permitted 90 days of visa exemption entries in a six month period.

2. The six months starts from your first entry after Oct 1st last year.

3. The period is fixed it does NOT roll.

4. If you try to enter within 30 days of the end of your 6 months you may only be permitted to stay until the end of the period NO MATTER HOW FEW OF YOUR 90 DAYS YOU'VE USED (seems to depend on immigration officer).

5. Once your first 6 months is over a new period starts and you will be able to do a border run and return with a full 30 day stamp. IMHO you MAY have to do an overnight stay out of the country in order to bridge between 6 month periods - anyone got any views on this??

Easy eh? Buggered if it is, see my post 'arrived with an expired visa'.

Edited April 4, 2007 by Crossy

[tropo]

3. The period is fixed it does NOT roll.

How did you come to this conclusion?

A rolling 6-month (or 180 day period) is the only way it can work. If a fixed 6 month period was used a consecutive 6 months would be possible. (ie. The last 3 months of one 6-month period tagged onto the first 3 months of another period.)

[jeebusjones]

3. The period is fixed it does NOT roll.

How did you come to this conclusion?

A rolling 6-month (or 180 day period) is the only way it can work. If a fixed 6 month period was used a consecutive 6 months would be possible. (ie. The last 3 months of one 6-month period tagged onto the first 3 months of another period.)

Tropo,

I was wondering what happened to you. I haven't seen a post from you in a while, and the visa exemption debates were sorely missing your input!

The fixed period does seem to be the rule now. So while it is now possible to do 6 consecutive months of visa exemption in a row, it would require the person to spend at least one night out of the country when the first six month period ended and the new one began.

See the thread about "Canadian only give 4 days." She was only stamped in until April 4, which was when her new six month period began. Crazy and completely counterintuitive, but it seems to be the way the rules are being applied.

Edited April 4, 2007 by jeebusjones

[tropo]

I was wondering what happened to you. I haven't seen a post from you in a while, and the visa exemption debates were sorely missing your input!

The fixed period does seem to be the rule now. So while it is now possible to do 6 consecutive months of visa exemption in a row, it would require the person to spend at least one night out of the country when the first six month period ended and the new one began.

See the thread about "Canadian only give 4 days." She was only stamped in until April 4, which was when her new six month period began. Crazy and completely counterintuitive, but it seems to be the way the rules are being applied.

I'm in the Philippines at present in a small provincial town and very busy renovating a house I bought. I've only been online a few times in the last month. That's incredible that they count in 6 month blocks...I'll have to do some back reading.

I'll be returning late April without a visa hoping for a full 30 days. I did notice the baht has dropped 3 per dollar since I left on Feb 27...very disappointing.

Edited April 4, 2007 by tropo

[LivinLOS]

Crazy and counter intuitive it is but also happened 100% for sure to a buddy here.. 43 days on visa free stamps in 6 months at last arrival but given 22 days only to take him to the end of his 6 months.. He has however been told (verbally / unoffically) that he needs a tourist visa and cannot just visa run on that day..

So for him it seems they are saying BOTH 180 day block AND rolling counts.. Maybe its just thier way of making border runs a royal PITA.

I can say as an opposite of this both my little brother and an offshore oilworker mate on monthly rotation (and theres a can of worms) came into Thailand in Oct and came back in March.. They both got 30 day full stamps that went past a fixed 6 months period.. So rules at one desk seem to differ from rules at another desk.

[Crossy]

3. The period is fixed it does NOT roll.

How did you come to this conclusion?

A rolling 6-month (or 180 day period) is the only way it can work. If a fixed 6 month period was used a consecutive 6 months would be possible. (ie. The last 3 months of one 6-month period tagged onto the first 3 months of another period.)

I agree that a rolling period would be the SENSIBLE option, but difficult to calculate manually.

At least two posters and one person i know have run into this problem, getting a permit to stay only to the last day of their 6 month period. A right royal PITA

[LivinLOS]

I agree that a rolling period would be the SENSIBLE option, but difficult to calculate manually.

How can 6 months befopre today be harder to calculate than the 6 months blocks.. With that system you have to look all the way back to earliest visit.. then block out the following years.. Then look inside those block..

Or does the slate clear after x amount of time out of the country ?? What starts a 'new block' 3 months away ?? 6 months away ?? never ??

This system is even more a55 backwards..

And this situation can effect, the holiday tourist, the oil worker on rare rotation downtimes, good spending people not being Thailands visa runners.. Those guys will just pay attention and avoid the traps.. its a mess..

[Vit77]

All you guys write seems so complicated to me. I do visa run every 2 months (new rule for my country: 1 month visa (in abroad consulate) + 1month ext) and nobody asked me about anything yet. Last time I came from Laos officer said:

- but I can give u visa only for 30 days, can be?

- no, can't.. give me 60 days please, ok?

- can't.. for your country 30 days, so - can be?

- cannot! but if I say cannot u will give me 30 days anyway, yes?

- yes

So anyway, for ma all these "new" rules and regulations are black magic. I just do my visa runs and nobody asks me for how many days I am where or what or anything else

Luckily I found school now and next run I will apply for ED 1-year visa.

[ChokChaiChas]

Fixed six month or rolling 6 month periods?

The evidence to date, including that of the unfortunate Canadian, proves nothing.

The forum needs to hear from those entering Thailand in the next week or so who first entered more than 6 months ago but after 1 October, departed and re-entered less than 6 months ago. If the immigration officer counts visa free days from the latter date it confirms the rolling theory. If the new entry is treated as the first in a new period it proves the fixed period theory.

I am firmly in the rolling period camp but will not be taking bets.

[LivinLOS]

The issue faced IMO is that the fact that immigration doesnt have a fixed interpretation is the biggest problem..

I know people who have had both situations.. Some got fixed periods.. Some (more) got rolling periods..

But what about the people following the rules as stated, arriving expecting thier 30 days stamp, who do not get it.. This has the effect off adding large costs (visa runs, time) and ruined visits to the kingdom based on some guys whim. Is anyone going to reimburse them for thier lost vacation time ?? Pay them back for the costs of thier Penang run ??

The rules need to be clear, strict, and equally enforced.. There can be no subjective arbitrary on the spot decisions in immigration.

[ChokChaiChas]

The issue faced IMO is that the fact that immigration doesnt have a fixed interpretation is the biggest problem..

I know people who have had both situations.. Some got fixed periods.. Some (more) got rolling periods..

What has been reported is that some people are being denied permission to stay beyond the end of the sixth month anniversay of their first stamp after 1st October which could apply whether the period is rolling (i.e resets every time you re-enter) or fixed (e.g. starts on entry on 6 Oct and finishes 5 April and a new period starts on your first entry after 5 April, or maybe on the 6 April even if you do not enter on that day or even if you entered 3 or 4 times in the previous six month period).

The effect of the fixed interpration is, using my example, you could have 90 consecutive days up to the 5 April followed by a further 90 consecutive days starting on 6 April.

There can be no subjective arbitrary on the spot decisions in immigration.

There can and there are. Whether there should be is the issue.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ChokChaiChas

[LivinLOS]

The issue faced IMO is that the fact that immigration doesnt have a fixed interpretation is the biggest problem..

I know people who have had both situations.. Some got fixed periods.. Some (more) got rolling periods..

What has been reported is that some people are being denied permission to stay beyond the end of the sixth month anniversay of their first stamp after 1st October which could apply whether the period is rolling (i.e resets every time you re-enter) or fixed (e.g. starts on entry on 6 Oct and finishes 5 April and a new period starts on your first entry after 5 April, or maybe on the 6 April even if you do not enter on that day or even if you entered 3 or 4 times in the previous six month period).

The effect of the fixed interpration is, using my example, you could have 90 consecutive days up to the 5 April followed by a further 90 consecutive days starting on 6 April.

Well both seem to be happening..

My brother came into Thailand in the first few days of Oct (2 - 4th ??) and then went to UK.. He arrived here recently (late march) and was given a full 30 days that went past his 180 day block.

A guy I know here in town had the opposite.. Despite only 43 days incountry on visa free arrivals, he was given 22 days to take him up to the end of his block..

These things MUST be predictable. Currently no one knows.

There can be no subjective arbitrary on the spot decisions in immigration.

There can and there are. Whether there should be is the issue.

OK conceded..

What I mean is in the interests of clear guidelines that dont leave people hanging there should not be subjective decisions..

Edited April 5, 2007 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

The worst of all interpretations is the 'both' interpretation your indicating above..

EG that it is a rolling period but that any entry in a previous 6 months would have created a block..

This would make being an offshore oil worker spending downtime (and huge amounts of money on a regular basis) very difficult, theres no embassies and consul on oil rigs and getting visas on route would simply be too awkward as part of a 28 day rotation..

[meom]

Agree with Livinlos that it's all a bit awkward. As mentioned in another thread I came in 1st time on 5 Oct. 2006 and left on 20 Oct., 2nd time came in on 3 Jan. and left 17 Jan., 3rd time came in on 19 March and instead of getting 30 days get admitted until 4 April only. Plus that the girl says next time I need a visa.

Next time will be in May and reading some of the posts technically a new 6 month period might have started so it should be no problem to get again 30 day admission stamp. I'm not to sure though so I guess I'll come with an official visa next time. Getting the visa no problem but time spent on getting the visa will be taken out of my off days so it's a bit more hassle cause I'd rather spent that time in LOS.

[LivinLOS]

Agree with Livinlos that it's all a bit awkward. As mentioned in another thread I came in 1st time on 5 Oct. 2006 and left on 20 Oct., 2nd time came in on 3 Jan. and left 17 Jan., 3rd time came in on 19 March and instead of getting 30 days get admitted until 4 April only. Plus that the girl says next time I need a visa.

OK another proven verifiable data point.. They said the same to my buddy here, both at BKK (but he was confused and clueless at this point.. thought they were counting his TV days also) and echo'ed at local immigration..

Despite having 43 days in first 180 block.. Being given only 22 days up to the end of his block.. Hes been told he wont be readmitted without a 'proper' visa..

So hes got a total of 65 days out of block 1.. But block 2 seems a no go to 'reset' that clock also ??

I'm not to sure though so I guess I'll come with an official visa next time. Getting the visa no problem but time spent on getting the visa will be taken out of my off days so it's a bit more hassle cause I'd rather spent that time in LOS.

Similar in that the inconvenience will make Thailand non viable for many oil workers if they keep this up.. I share my villa with a guy who works offshore in caribean on 28/28.. So after flying from Caribean, to London, to Singapore, hes then supposed to stop and get a TV for a couple of days before he continues onward to 'home' every 28 days !!!