Farming Advice Please

[Kiwi Jacko]

Hi, I'm new here and would love some advice. My wife and I are currently living in Sydney and we (she) has some farm land around 45 mins from Ubon Ratchathani. Currently the farm consists of around 10 Rai of rice, 10 Rai of Rubber Trees, some Bananas, Mangos and small qtys of other fruit & vege, mainly for family consumption or sale at the local market. My wife and I have around 20 Rai of unused land relatively near the farm house and water bore which a supplies good quality clear water. I'm not expecting to make any profit from the land but I want to put it to better use and help support her family if I can. They are lovely people, relatively honest and hard working so I have a fair degree of trust. I'm happy to cover the costs each year if I can break even and leave some extra money (or surplus crops) for the family. I'm heading over shortly for a few weeks and hoping to get things moving while I'm there. Satellite pic of the land as below. I'm a complete novice in terms of farming so would appreciate any help or suggestions.

p.s. I dont need cynicism or derogatory remarks about the "Thai way"...just constructive advice thanks

 

[OOTAI]

Kiwi Jacko

I am married to a Thai and have been involved in spending money to help the Thai family for a period of 20 years now and so far not really successful.

For the last 3 years I have lived here full time after retiring in early 2017. 

If there was a better more profitable way to use the land then the family would have found it by now, however that statement comes with a couple of provisos.

1. It would have to be easier i.e. less physical work involved.

2. It would need to give a very quick pay out for any labour put in.

 

Very early in my career of helping my extended family I bought some cattle 18 cows and a bull. The idea being the BIL would be the herdsman and get to own 2 out of every 3 calves. Seven months in and with no money coming in he went off to Bangkok to work for cash. So my other BIL took over and after 18 months we had a herd of 45 cattle, we had bought a few others along the way that were presented to us as a bargain.  Anyway the missus got sick of all the hassles with phone calls in the middle of the night in Australia about a dead cow, she drowned when the bull jumped her and she couldn't hold his weight, or a sick calk etc. etc.  So in the end I sold the lot and made a princely loss of about 150,000 baht.

 

My wife now organises things to be ploughed, planted, dug up etc. etc. and hires her family members to do the work. She owns about 120 rai and grows rice and cassava, 7 rai of which is irrigated from a bore we put down for the job. They get paid on a contract rate so they can go as slow as they want and it doesn't cost us anymore. This way the family get some cash and that in my opinion is the best way to help them.

 

So unless you are there to oversee the operation, which I assume you won't be, then I would not change what they are currently doing but instead offer a set amount to help pay for fertiliser and ploughing and harvesting as this is the part that is hard for rural Thai's. The Thai farming families are usually cash poor so can't buy fertiliser etc. which results in a poor crop which extends the cycle.

 

So in summary anything thing you suggest will be met with a great deal of enthusiasm but once the novelty wears off and there is hard work to be done it won't get done, I'm sorry for being negative but I am a realist first and foremost.

Don' get me wrong as there are some hard working Thai's here but they never seem to be family members who want a free ride.

 

Hope you have success in whatever you decide to do and please let us here know what happens. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by OOTAI

[Kiwi Jacko]

Thanks for the reply Ootai. No need to apologies for being negative, you are probably spot on with what you say. I may retire there at some stage but as you say I wont be there to oversee the operation. There is only one family member running the farm now so any anything additional would probably require some extended family or hired labour. Maybe I will get a contractor in to prepare 10 Rai of our land for rice planting while I'm there and then support with some cash for fertiliser, re-planting, harvesting etc. From what I can work out 10 rai of rice will cost around B40-50,000 all up including paying for labour (whether it be family or external) and the rice sale proceeds would be about the same. Anyone else got numbers on that?

 

[IsaanAussie]

I think Ootai has summed things up well. Culturally we "son-in-laws" are pretty low on the social ladder. Without being there or knowledge of the farming being done, the only thing you could contribute is cash. If you do inject money then it immediately becomes family money and will be used as required. There will be no accounting for it or return. If you want to do that then let your wife run all contacts. Your job will be to act Thai, smile and stay silent.

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Kiwi Jacko said:

Maybe I will get a contractor in to prepare 10 Rai of our land for rice planting while I'm there and then support with some cash for fertiliser, re-planting, harvesting etc.

I have a My 8 year old son has a 6 rai rice farm near Lomsak.

We haven't bothered planting it for the last 9 years, just not worth the effort.

Grandma lives in a hut beside it.

Edited February 2, 2020 by BritManToo

[farmerjo]

If they cannot finance it,they will know someone who would do it for a say 70/30 split so your family will still be 30% better off and you don't have to worry.

 

[FarFlungFalang]

20 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Where as the other replies were great, your reply makes no sense. I suppose it was made as a joke.

I think what he is trying to say is it is extremely difficult to break even especially the last few years.I did the subsidised thing when I was making good money until I retired and started living here permanently 5 years ago and stopped and was not surprised when my wife started spiralling into debt along with most of the local farmers in our area.A cheaper option would be to just by food for the family as farm produce is extremely cheap which is why very few make any money. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[Grumpy John]

30 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I think what he is trying to say is it is extremely difficult to break even especially the last few years.I did the subsidised thing when I was making good money until I retired and started living here permanently 5 years ago and stopped and was not surprised when my wife started spiralling into debt along with most of the local farmers in our area.A cheaper option would be to just by food for the family as farm produce is extremely cheap which is why very few make any money. 

Almost the same situation as I....but the wife didn't get loan.   Because my M-in-L CO signed a loan for my wifes useless brother we now have a loan we didn't need and We pay it to keep the old girl out of debtor court.  Selling our mangoes to buying agents we get Less and less as the season goes by.  Doesn't seem like a smart business to be in! Even though I was raised on a farm in my younger days I think Farming here in LOS is a mugs game for farang.  Yet here I am!  Still in love with the same woman after 11 years,  still getting up at 4:30am every morning, still doing jobs to help the wife even though I am retired and supposed to be living the good life....... Was I  joking?   

 

[metisdead]

An unhelpful and off topic post has been reported and removed. 

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, FarFlungFalang said:

I think what he is trying to say is it is extremely difficult to break even especially the last few years.I did the subsidised thing when I was making good money until I retired and started living here permanently 5 years ago and stopped and was not surprised when my wife started spiralling into debt along with most of the local farmers in our area.A cheaper option would be to just by food for the family as farm produce is extremely cheap which is why very few make any money. 

This is good advice for the OP. But the best thing for the OP to take on board is your self quote, "Eliminate expectations and you will eliminate anger." 

Learn that Thai families will always help each other if they can without keeping score. If asked to help and you can afford it, just do it. If you have to ask what for, and get answers like sick buffalo or grandmothers brain tumor, then you have pried too much. Remember face saving is critical so never offer a "<deleted>!" callout. 

[AndyAndyAndy]

When you have a land in Thailand it is extremely common to lease it (without a paper) to somebody in the village (usually neighbors who are growing their land). He will grow a rice or something and then will give you a share (like a sack a rice per field or something) at the end of the season.

 

It seems to me much better solution than as a farang sending money to Thailand. So family can run a farm/business. Without you even being here! It has huge red flags to me all over it!!!

Edited February 3, 2020 by AndyAndyAndy

[Kiwi Jacko]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I will take on board the advice on dealing with (or avoiding) the traps & difficulties with Thai in-laws. In terms of supporting the family the suggestions to provide some cash to help with expenses is probably the best way to go about it and we will continue doing that.

That said I’d still really like utilise our land for something productive, even as a medium term project which may become useful down the track (maybe planting trees for fruit or even for timber). Even if its not a great income I’m sure going to need a project if I’m going to spend a lot of time here in the future so maybe that’s a better way to look at it. Farm land in Thailand has some value so surely it cannot be completely useless. There must be some ideas out there on how I can put 20 Rai of land with water, electricity and road access to some use. 

[khwaibah]

54 minutes ago, Kiwi Jacko said:

Thanks for your responses everyone. I will take on board the advice on dealing with (or avoiding) the traps & difficulties with Thai in-laws. In terms of supporting the family the suggestions to provide some cash to help with expenses is probably the best way to go about it and we will continue doing that.

That said I’d still really like utilise our land for something productive, even as a medium term project which may become useful down the track (maybe planting trees for fruit or even for timber). Even if its not a great income I’m sure going to need a project if I’m going to spend a lot of time here in the future so maybe that’s a better way to look at it. Farm land in Thailand has some value so surely it cannot be completely useless. There must be some ideas out there on how I can put 20 Rai of land with water, electricity and road access to some use. 

Just to give you and idea. You're going to need more than a bore for about 30 rai. I'm over Kap Choeng/Surin. My wife said polity FORK the lice.???? She took her 12 rai and added 5 more from her mom and is putting in a serious so called organic garden. This project includes a 50 meter by 10 meter deep pond. She is keeping about 5 rai just for the normal rice and somewhere for her 15 or so cows to graze but she rents out another 12+ rai to others to farm. BTW if you make the correct contact a 50m pound doesn't not cost you to have built.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by khwaibah

[Grumpy John]

Maybe Paulownia trees would suit you.  Water them for the first 2 years, add fertilizer 4 times a year for the first 2 years then annually.  For Shantong #27 thin at 5 years and harvest at 9 or 10.   They regrow from the stump and you do it all again. 

[OOTAI]

1 hour ago, Kiwi Jacko said:

Thanks for your responses everyone. I will take on board the advice on dealing with (or avoiding) the traps & difficulties with Thai in-laws. In terms of supporting the family the suggestions to provide some cash to help with expenses is probably the best way to go about it and we will continue doing that.

That said I’d still really like utilise our land for something productive, even as a medium term project which may become useful down the track (maybe planting trees for fruit or even for timber). Even if its not a great income I’m sure going to need a project if I’m going to spend a lot of time here in the future so maybe that’s a better way to look at it. Farm land in Thailand has some value so surely it cannot be completely useless. There must be some ideas out there on how I can put 20 Rai of land with water, electricity and road access to some use. 

Kiwi Jacko

If you decide to provide some cash to help with expenses for growing rice or something else make sure you make it very clear that you are giving a set amount and not a commitment to fund all their future schemes because there will be many I can assure you.

As for putting the land to some use it really depends on your plans regarding when you think you will be there full time. I would suggest planting a whole lot of fruit trees of various types but only do that a few years before you are there full time. I have seen it happen too often that the enthusiasm will wear off very quickly for the Thai family if there is no cash flow to provide instant gratification for any labour input. So the trees that you plant will most likely not be fertilised, at least not as you would do it. They may be watered but again not like you would and as for pruning I have never seen a Thai prune a fruit tree they just harvest any fruit it produces. I always have to remind myself that these people are not all that far removed from subsistence living and really don't think of the longer term benefits to be gained from working hard today. That is Thai culture out here in the sticks.

 

So whatever you decide to do, do it with the timing of your retirement to live there as the basis for all the decisions.

 

Whatever you do provide I think will be appreciated.  I asked my sister in law one day if the family's life had improved since I came on the scene. She said yes it had but when asked how your reply surprised me. She reckoned one of the biggest things was having access to a car (ours) to take them or their kids to hospital if they got sick. So don't make the mistake of trying to do things the way you would in your home country they may not work here.

 

Good luck

[farmerjo]

2 hours ago, Kiwi Jacko said:

Thanks for your responses everyone. I will take on board the advice on dealing with (or avoiding) the traps & difficulties with Thai in-laws. In terms of supporting the family the suggestions to provide some cash to help with expenses is probably the best way to go about it and we will continue doing that.

That said I’d still really like utilise our land for something productive, even as a medium term project which may become useful down the track (maybe planting trees for fruit or even for timber). Even if its not a great income I’m sure going to need a project if I’m going to spend a lot of time here in the future so maybe that’s a better way to look at it. Farm land in Thailand has some value so surely it cannot be completely useless. There must be some ideas out there on how I can put 20 Rai of land with water, electricity and road access to some use. 

Plenty of things to grow.

All depends how far your willing to go setting it up.

Sheds,tractor,trailer,pumps and pipes,sprayer,grass cutter,farm run around vehicle,fences,the list can get endless.

 

[Kiwi Jacko]

21 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

Maybe Paulownia trees would suit you.  Water them for the first 2 years, add fertilizer 4 times a year for the first 2 years then annually.  For Shantong #27 thin at 5 years and harvest at 9 or 10.   They regrow from the stump and you do it all again. 

Thanks GJ, Ive heard a lot of bad stories around investment in those trees in the western world (badly managed schemes from what I gather). Do you think they are a genuine option there? Are people growing them successfully? Is there much land preparation? Any idea of the investment required per rai for the initial planting, ongoing costs, major risks, possible returns etc. Sorry to bombard you with questions.