Where are we going?

[Assurancetourix]

35 minutes ago, geronimo said:

I heard Ivor's going to be given a free pass into the 8-dotters lounge ......... 

Good for him ; on my side I am not fond of chocolate or other medals;
but don't make me write what I didn't say: I won't refuse the 8 * star when the time is right.
It will please my madam

[Odysseus123]

44 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

If you speak of my first sentence, I concede it;

 

although it depends on which side we are on.

this example, on the Victory Monument in Bangkok;

 

the battle of Koh Chang in 1941 is considered by the Thai people as a great victory ( the good joke! )
In any case, this is what they want to show to future generations.

If being sank 1/3 of its fleet in 2 hours by two gunboats (small boats!) Is a victory ... !!!

On earth the battles will be won not by the Thai army who are too happy to have avoided a confrontation but by their allies, the Japanese.

Yes...but Herodotus (partially) and Thucydides (fully) were concerned with creating History and paring it away from myth which requires -to a certain extent-a literate culture,a willingness to analyse events and place them within a certain context and an attempt to represent facts in an impartial sense-in other words to actually descibe what was happening on "both sides of the hill".

 

I don't believe that Thai culture has this commitment to "impartiallity" in any way shape or form tho' it might be improving.

 

Anyway it is just one of the great gifts that the Ancient Greeks gave to us (including mathematics,geometry,physics,philosophy,art and literature and the great historians of the western world know this.It is one of the major jewels set in the Western intellectual cultural crown.

 

It is noteworthy that the 3rd major historian of Greece-Xenophon-starts of with a major military disaster (Battle of Cunaxa 401 BC) in his 'Anabasis' and then goes on to describe the long march of the Greeks back home.Disaster-retreat-resolution-salvation.

 

Winston Churchill and every literate person of his generation knew the story well..

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Odysseus123

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

I think you need to learn the difference between climate change and global warming. Climate Change is a natural sequence of events that happened continuously in the past, happens now, and in the future. Climate change happens on the other planets too. Jupiter's gigantic storms and cyclones continue to produce those colourful patterns we see. Jupiter's Great Red Spot is also getting smaller.

Global Warming was originally introduced to specifically relate to Earth to include climate change plus the anthropological influence. All animal life has an influence on its surroundings (there is even evidence that the larger dinosaurs were eating their way extinction before the impact event) but it's a question of by how much.

Some years ago I started do my own study, not a strict laboratory one, just a simple model of my local environment. I measured the surface ground temperature in a couple of roadside places where there were plenty of trees on the way to Nongkhai, and some close to where I live. When they pulled down the trees for an extra lane traffic to Nongkhai I went out and took some more readings during the summer as close as I could to the originals. Extra trees had also been felled for the building of the so called 'villages'. Now there was no shade protecting the ground which was about 3^o C higher than before and around where I live where there has also been development, a little under a 2^o C rise. Now I admit there could be quite a large margin of error in what I did but the point is there was a rise in ground temperature. Now add that to what goes on elsewhere on a larger scale and you have a recipe for larger areas of surface ground warming. But of course this isn't the only consequence. Wind patterns are also affected by such changes as well as other factors. The big question is, are those changes detrimental? There are two camps among the scientific community; NASA says the average temperature is up by about 1.9^o C, sea level is rising, CO₂ levels are rising and so on. The two camps arise from the non-anthropogenic/anthropogenic influence. But there is also a more subtle influence...how the questionnaires given to scientists are structured and do they ask the right questions? Apparently a recent German questionnaire study suggest that many of the questions are vague and not direct enough but is there a reason for that also?

I am not going to give my opinion, such as it is, as whether we are on a catastrophic course or not but we have seen in recent years the impact by plastic pollution, storing of radioactive waste etc. The evidence for global changes are there...how it is interpreted is something else.

I have no problem in accepting global warming is the driver of climate change. Hurricanes/typhoons/cyclones become more intense, ice caps melt, sea levels rise, unprecedented bushfires etc.

Any person with even a smattering of thermodynamics understands carbon dioxide is not the main actor. Heat generated by human activity is. Although the greenhouse effect which carbon dioxide brings to the table is also worth considering.

Almost all of the models which predict the effects of global warming are conservative, despite the efforts of the deniers to paint them as scare-mongering. A black swan event, such as release of methane clathrates from permafrost, or a decrease of the albedo from the Greenland icecap, and those models are an underestimation.

Your observations, while not very scientific, were probably a combination of decreased albedo and Stefan-Boltzmann law, although strictly speaking that law only applies accurately to perfect black bodies. Bitumen roads aren't far off.

 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

I always ask myself this question which will obviously remain unanswered;
why raise billions of dollars or euros in your bank account or in physical things ...?
What is it for when you can buy absolutely everything you want?
One hundred cars , each for  4 million euros ( Bugatti ) or a luxury yacht or a castle or all three at the same time. And  Mona Lisa in your  living room; why not?
I do not see the point of amassing such fortunes;

fortunes that will be swept away like a straw during the final explosion.
These milliardiares know very well that humanity runs to its loss; they contribute much more than you or me.

My current goal is to be able to buy myself a new camera without it interfering in the family budget; let's say a colossal investment of around 20,000 baht. 

The point of amassing such fortunes is one can then buy all the equipment and services one needs to protect themselves and their families from the worst effects of economic and environmental dislocations. Tough luck for everyone else, of course.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Lefties don't understand basic co2 science nor the law of dimishing returns. It's been known for decades around the world the law applies. Going from zero to 100ppm temps  are sensitive. At higher less it becomes less and less.

 

The runaway warming loonies were basing their models on constant sensitivity which is wrong.

 

Lifting heavy weights 5 times a week same muscle group is not better than twice or 3 times.

 

Same rule applies to many things not just co2.

 

Yet the loonies think 3 oil guys run opposition to co2 hype. It's not. It's well know science and knowledge of how the rule of dimishing returns works.

 

Have a nice day.

The literacy of your post has finally convinced me.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

It is not too recent for me;
Besides, I have listened to it several times interpreted by different artists.
And when it is interpreted by Yuja Wang in an alluring outfit, it is even better

 

 

Try Sarah Chang with Bruch's violin concerto, third movement. A bit more clothing, but.

[Assurancetourix]

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The point of amassing such fortunes is one can then buy all the equipment and services one needs to protect themselves and their families from the worst effects of economic and environmental dislocations. Tough luck for everyone else, of course.

It is filthy nullity; Being on unlivable land would therefore be a must!
or as in the iconoclastic series: The last man on earth ...

these multi billionaires. really have a pea or half a neuron in the head

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:22 PM, geronimo said:

We might be remembered as the generation that turned the tide and made some headway to redress the terrible raping and plundering of this planet and all the life upon it, or we might be the generation that sat back and did nothing as the planet turned into a place that is uninhabitable for life as we know it.

The latter is more likely. Most in the advanced world are too busy communicating with their imaginary friends to actually do anything.

We are the most advanced society the world has created and many people are ignorant about reality- they actually believe fake news because lots of other people do. Few have solutions to any of the problems humanity faces. The biggest is overpopulation and hardly anyone is talking about that. The second is pollution, and the only thing they have come up with so far is to ban plastic bags, ignoring everything sold in plastic.

Governments actually ENCOURAGE more air travel.

 

If Greta knows so much, why is she not berating the Brazilian government to stop allowing the destruction of the rain forest- the "lungs of the world"?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/11/2020 at 2:33 PM, UbonThani said:

People have better lives now than any point in history.

People in advanced countries with assets and money do. The rest have lives just as horrible as their ancestors.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/11/2020 at 3:09 PM, UbonThani said:

1 you know very little about science

 

2 nothing to stop

 

Sadly brainwashed by the cult.

Pollution has already passed the tipping stage. The oceans are polluted end to end. Air travel is being increased with government encouragement. Clean water is a finite resource.

Population increase continues unabated. Every new billion mouths needs food, water, housing, transportation. So long as population increases, our future looks bleaker.

 

As most population increase is in poor countries, expect even more movement of population from poor to rich countries, and rich countries becoming poor.

 

[Odysseus123]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Try Sarah Chang with Bruch's violin concerto, third movement. A bit more clothing, but.

For two splendid women pianists of great beauty,poise,talent and fire may I recommend..

Nino Gvetadze (Georgian) Beethoven piano concerto#4

Alice Sara Ott (German-Japanese) Beethoven piano concerto#3

(both on YouTube)

Edited February 13, 2020 by Odysseus123

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

For two splendid women pianists of great beauty,poise,talent and fire may I recommend..

Nino Gvetadze (Georgian) Beethoven piano concerto#4

Alice Sara Ott (German-Japanese) Beethoven piano concerto#3

(both on YouTube)

Well, 'if that is where we are going' (from the OP) count me in, ????

[Odysseus123]

24 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Well, 'if that is where we are going' (from the OP) count me in, ????

Tho' we have some very important environmental issues to contend with-I agree with that-I do not agree with the prevailing internet gloom as a whole.

 

In actual fact our cultures are robust,we are communicating with one another,our populations will begin to decline within the century and all we have to do is get away from what is essentially "millenarianism" and embrace what is best in our human experience and our respective cultures...we are still an amazingly creative and inventive species (despite the dark side)

 

Another wonderful young lady-Western culture at its best.

 

Alina Bercu (Romania)

Beethoven:piano concerto #5 (Emperor)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TiYGxOQDYw

[TKDfella]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Tho' we have some very important environmental issues to contend with-I agree with that-I do not agree with the prevailing internet gloom as a whole.

 

In actual fact our cultures are robust,we are communicating with one another,our populations will begin to decline within the century and all we have to do is get away from what is essentially "millenarianism" and embrace what is best in our human experience and our respective cultures...we are still an amazingly creative and inventive species (despite the dark side)

 

Another wonderful young lady-Western culture at its best.

 

Alina Bercu (Romania)

Beethoven:piano concerto #5 (Emperor)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TiYGxOQDYw

Beethoven, yes I like. Good job he didn't look like the young lady because we would never have heard of him, ha!

For the moment it's a hard world out there but we have the ability to be and do better. Let's just hope that it happens.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/12/2020 at 3:43 PM, TKDfella said:

I think you need to learn the difference between climate change and global warming. Climate Change is a natural sequence of events that happened continuously in the past, happens now, and in the future. Climate change happens on the other planets too. Jupiter's gigantic storms and cyclones continue to produce those colourful patterns we see. Jupiter's Great Red Spot is also getting smaller.

Global Warming was originally introduced to specifically relate to Earth to include climate change plus the anthropological influence. All animal life has an influence on its surroundings (there is even evidence that the larger dinosaurs were eating their way extinction before the impact event) but it's a question of by how much.

Some years ago I started do my own study, not a strict laboratory one, just a simple model of my local environment. I measured the surface ground temperature in a couple of roadside places where there were plenty of trees on the way to Nongkhai, and some close to where I live. When they pulled down the trees for an extra lane traffic to Nongkhai I went out and took some more readings during the summer as close as I could to the originals. Extra trees had also been felled for the building of the so called 'villages'. Now there was no shade protecting the ground which was about 3^o C higher than before and around where I live where there has also been development, a little under a 2^o C rise. Now I admit there could be quite a large margin of error in what I did but the point is there was a rise in ground temperature. Now add that to what goes on elsewhere on a larger scale and you have a recipe for larger areas of surface ground warming. But of course this isn't the only consequence. Wind patterns are also affected by such changes as well as other factors. The big question is, are those changes detrimental? There are two camps among the scientific community; NASA says the average temperature is up by about 1.9^o C, sea level is rising, CO₂ levels are rising and so on. The two camps arise from the non-anthropogenic/anthropogenic influence. But there is also a more subtle influence...how the questionnaires given to scientists are structured and do they ask the right questions? Apparently a recent German questionnaire study suggest that many of the questions are vague and not direct enough but is there a reason for that also?

I am not going to give my opinion, such as it is, as whether we are on a catastrophic course or not but we have seen in recent years the impact by plastic pollution, storing of radioactive waste etc. The evidence for global changes are there...how it is interpreted is something else.

Yes, human activity has a local effect- London is noticeably warmer in winter than outside it.

However, on a planetary scale humans inhabit a very small area. The oceans have no habitations other than ships, and most of the land mass is unpopulated.

IMO, humans are more at risk of polluting themselves to extinction than by climate change, yet almost nothing realistic is being done to stop pollution. Banning plastic bags in supermarkets does zero in real terms, when the oceans are completely polluted already. Most of what has been done so far is, IMO, no more than virtue signalling.

What really needs to be done is to stop the clearance and burning of the rain forests- NOW.

[mrwebb8825]

If we're all going to die why do you care if you're 1st, last or in the middle? And, if we're all going to die who will be around to "remember" us as anything? ????

[UbonThani]

Im going to eat cake tonight. Doomsday cults are not for me.