Investing

[Airalee]

33 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

The reason why people get passionate about Bitcoin is because it is a new revolutionary technology that could potentially change society for good and for everyone's benefits

Sounds like a cult.

[bkk6060]

It is not new been around for 10 years.

Dumped almost 70% from its high just 2 years ago.

Although it has been heading up, for the average investor I believe the volititity is too great.  A well balanced portofolio will not create sleepless nights.  Bitcoin could.  For me anyway.

[freeman01]

7 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Sounds like a cult.

ok sherlock.

Edited February 24, 2020 by freeman01

[bkk6060]

40 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

He also missed a ton of stocks that went bankrupt. 

 

Also, you do realize that he bought Apple in 2016 and the highest Apple traded in 2016 was $118.  Today Apple is at $315. 

Yes.

He paid around 106 per share about 3 years.  So, he tripled his money. That is bad?

To add, he recently sold some of it.

Anyone that thinks Buffett does not know what he his doing, is out of touch.

[digibum]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It is not new been around for 10 years.

Dumped almost 70% from its high just 2 years ago.

Although it has been heading up, for the average investor I believe the volititity is too great.  A well balanced portofolio will not create sleepless nights.  Bitcoin could.  For me anyway.

 

I would agree with this.  Back in the early 1990's Zweig did a study and they found, unsurprisingly, that the vast majority of retail investors bought in at the top and bailed at the bottoms of the market.  He was big proponent of creating very blended portfolios that didn't always have the max upside, but reduced volatility so that investors would stay invested for the long haul.  Time in the market produced greater returns than timing the market. 

 

So, you take an asset class like Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency that can run up to $20K and then down to $7K in a few months and you're going to get a lot of people FOMO buying at the top and taking their losses at the bottom. 

 

[Airalee]

10 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

ok sherlock.

Buzzwords and insults.  That’s all you guys seem to have.

[digibum]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.

He paid around 106 per share about 3 years.  So, he tripled his money. That is bad?

To add, he recently sold some of it.

Anyone that thinks Buffett does not know what he his doing, is out of touch.

 

You have to keep in mind that the crypto community loathes anyone that questions crypto.  Buffett has said it's a scam so every crypto person thinks he's old and out of touch.  Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan CEO, was the devil because he was out there constantly blasting Bitcoin. 

 

I guarantee you that the same people would call Buffett the greatest investor that ever lived if he bought $10K worth of Bitcoin.  LOL. 

 

That's why this is so much like a cult.  You're either part of the cult, a potential recruit, or an enemy.  There's no room for people who are cautious or point out flaws. 

[Tayaout]

2 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

You have to keep in mind that the crypto community loathes anyone that questions crypto.  Buffett has said it's a scam so every crypto person thinks he's old and out of touch.  Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan CEO, was the devil because he was out there constantly blasting Bitcoin. 

 

I guarantee you that the same people would call Buffett the greatest investor that ever lived if he bought $10K worth of Bitcoin.  LOL. 

 

That's why this is so much like a cult.  You're either part of the cult, a potential recruit, or an enemy.  There's no room for people who are cautious or point out flaws. 

Yes and he is going to diner with them, setup a wallet and get his first bitcoin. 

 

[digibum]

13 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

ok sherlock.

Quote

you just like to jump on people who talks positiviely negatively about bitcoin, you have spent way too much time doing that and now you dump your <deleted> against for bitcoin at the first opportunities, what a wonderful being you are, a real heroes.

Repurposed your previous post for you. 

[Tayaout]

https://www.coindesk.com/trons-justin-sun-finally-gets-4-5m-dinner-with-warren-buffett

 

Last year wasn't so good for Buffet: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/warren-buffett-has-just-about-given-up-on-beating-the-sp-500-2019-05-10

[freeman01]

8 minutes ago, digibum said:

Repurposed your previous post for you. 

sure, let's not highlight that this guy has been pocking here repeatedly with his very low effort post of no value. you are right, as always. my king.

[digibum]

2 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Yes and he is going to diner with them, setup a wallet and get his first bitcoin. 

 

 

Not sure why you quoted me since this kind of proves my point. 

 

The interviewer calls Buffett, a well known crypto hater.  And Justin's goal in the meeting was to educate Buffett on cryptocurrencies.  As if he doesn't have access to anybody in the world he wants to speak with about them.  LOL. 

 

The problem is that Buffett has a very well know investment strategy.  He's more than willing to pass over investments that don't fit his criteria even if others will make money on them.  And nothing in the crypto space fits that investment criteria. 

[freeman01]

Warren Buffet is a great investor and very smart guy, he just missed out on the internet tech stocks and he admitted it many times.

Crypto overall is still very early so it's likely he will jump in at some point and not repeat the same mistake twice.

[digibum]

10 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

https://www.coindesk.com/trons-justin-sun-finally-gets-4-5m-dinner-with-warren-buffett

 

Last year wasn't so good for Buffet: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/warren-buffett-has-just-about-given-up-on-beating-the-sp-500-2019-05-10

 

From the article you linked to:

 

 

Quote

 

During the dinner, Buffett reportedly said that he didn't see any value in bitcoin because he believed that only businesses created value, Assia told CoinDesk. He also said that Buffett believed bitcoin was not a store of value but a "store of fear" because investors buy it out of "fear of what happens in the short term if the markets crash."

"He [Buffett] thinks that blockchain technology has value but that none of the companies out there right now are using it correctly. The smartest people say it’s an important technology, just no one really uses it yet," Assia added.

 

 

Also, Buffett predicted that eventually he would become too big to outperform the market.  And, at least he's told his own investors to just go out and buy an index fund and you'll be about even, which is probably the most honest investment advice anyone will ever give you. 

[digibum]

2 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

Warren Buffet is a great investor and very smart guy, he just missed out on the internet tech stocks and he admitted it many times.

Crypto overall is still very early so it's likely he will jump in at some point and not repeat the same mistake twice.

 

Well, according to the article @Tayaout posted:

 

Quote

 

During the dinner, Buffett reportedly said that he didn't see any value in bitcoin because he believed that only businesses created value, Assia told CoinDesk. He also said that Buffett believed bitcoin was not a store of value but a "store of fear" because investors buy it out of "fear of what happens in the short term if the markets crash."

 

"He [Buffett] thinks that blockchain technology has value but that none of the companies out there right now are using it correctly. The smartest people say it’s an important technology, just no one really uses it yet," Assia added.

 

 

But I think it's interesting that you keep focusing on him missing out on the internet stocks.  . 

 

The only ones that I've ever heard him specifically mention regretting not buying were Google and Amazon.  Google because he didn't understand their entire business model and thought it was expensive and Amazon because he couldn't foresee how well Bezos would execute his vision.  And to be honest, Bezos has done something nobody has ever pulled off on that scale before so not exactly crazy to doubt Bezos would turn a scrappy book site into the largest marketplace in the world.  There were a lot of opportunities for them to get something wrong but they got it right and they got lucky and it turned out well for them. 

 

You can't live your life with FOMO.  Buffett doesn't.  He constantly talks about the fact that they pass on opportunities that later pan out.  VCs have the same issue.  You hear a gazillion pitches and you try to pick the best ones at that time.  There were people that passed on Uber.  There were people that passed on a lot of companies that become huge.  None of the most successful people spend a lot of time worrying about what opportunities they missed (other than to correct something if they turned it down for the wrong reasons). 

 

[Tayaout]

I'm not the one who said Buffet missed anything. He has is own old school style and invest in tangible assets that he understand well. I even took one of his advice: not using leverage. I'm young and took a lot of risks that paid well against all the wisdom of boomers who dismissed me over they years. Now I'm the phase where I'm looking for low risk investment while keeping a small amount at high risk because it worked well for me but I never buy on hype and never sell on fear. You can say I was lucky but I did a lot of research before investing any amount of money and started small. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tayaout

[freeman01]

I personally invested in Bitcoin purely based on the fundamentals I highlighted earlier and the history of it and the price action.

Like Tayaout, I never buy on FOMO or sell on FUD, so far it has been a very enlightening and profitable experience, I keep learning every day and I only foresee my crypto investment doing significantly better from there.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

I personally invested in Bitcoin purely based on the fundamentals I highlighted earlier and the history of it and the price action.

Like Tayaout, I never buy on FOMO or sell on FUD, so far it has been a very enlightening and profitable experience, I keep learning every day and I only foresee my crypto investment doing significantly better from there.

For your crypto currency to do better , you need other people to invest in the same Crypto currency .

  Maybe you could try and persuade some other people to also invest in crypto currency , like on forums and things ?

[Tayaout]

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

For your crypto currency to do better , you need other people to invest in the same Crypto currency .

  Maybe you could try and persuade some other people to also invest in crypto currency , like on forums and things ?

That's not really necessary. If the technology is really valuable it will get used eventually anyways. Convincing devellopers to build more services around Bitcoin is probably more valuable than trying to bring more speculators. Right now the user experience is a a bit rough but service will eventually emerge that make it seamless. We are at the stage of "why use a 56k modem and email if there is fax anyway? ". 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tayaout

[freeman01]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

For your crypto currency to do better , you need other people to invest in the same Crypto currency .

  Maybe you could try and persuade some other people to also invest in crypto currency , like on forums and things ?

Yes and what a better place than thaivisa full of retired baby boomers completely hermetic to any kind of new technology to do that isnt it ? What do you think ?

 

There are many others crypto and most of them are scams, that's why i only talk about bitcoin that is now well established and praised by many trustworthy people. Do you believe CNBC would keep mentioning bitcoin so often if it was just a ponzi ?

 

Most people, those around here included, will likely FOMO in the next time the media are vocal about it when it is litterally the worst time to buy and without doing any research. 

Here now people have the time to discuss, verify the facts and start to build a sound opinion on the matter without any pressure and many different opinions on the matter.

[digibum]

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

That's not really necessary. If the technology is really valuable it will get used eventually anyways. Convincing devellopers to build more services around Bitcoin is probably more valuable than trying to bring more speculators. Right now the user experience is a a bit rough but service will eventually emerge that make it seamless. We are at the stage of "why use a 56k modem and email if there is fax anyway? ".

10 years waiting on Bitcoin. 

 

But I actually do agree on your last sentence.  I do think there's something there.  I just don't think that the current TPS bottleneck makes Bitcoin realistic.  Bitcoin is/was a proof of concept.   From there, people can build something that might actually be useful.

 

But, ultimately, you have to have a consumer or business viable product.  You can't launch a competitor to PayPal that's worse than PayPal just because it uses some new technology.  People don't buy technology, they buy solutions/convenience. 

 

Honestly, nobody cares if it's Open Source.  Nobody cares if distributed.  They really don't. 

 

There's a reason that Bitcoin hasn't even reached 1% market penetration, it's because only criminals, privacy zealots, and Bitcoin cult members are willing to go through a multi-step process to use it and put up with the extreme volatility. 

 

The world is moving in exactly the opposite direction.  People want to wave their phone at a cash register and have their purchase automatically paid for (we've become too lazy to even reach in our pockets anymore).  383 million people use ApplePay and Bitcoin barely has 25 million total users. 

 

Bitcoin zealots remind of of Apple Fan Boys.  I remember back in the early 1990's when people would tell you Macs don't crash.  Macs are a closed system so everything just works.  Macs are the perfect computer.  Steve Jobs is a god.  You have to buy a Mac. 

 

But I had to use a Mac at work sometimes and they crashed 2 or 3 times a day. 

 

And when I would point this out to Fan Boys they would get all angry and then finally admit that they crash, but less than Windows, so clearly superior to Windows. 

 

Uhm, okay, that still means you're lying though. 

 

I basically knew I could never have a honest conversation about Macs with any Apple Fan Boy. 

 

But, eventually, OSX came out and I really liked what they did with the OS so I've been on Macs ever since.  Apple earned my business by building a stable, easy to use product. 

 

Eventually, someone will create something useful with crypto and I will use it.  I may even invest in that company.  But, I'm not going to pretend Bitcoin isn't seriously flawed today.  I'm not going to use a product because it uses blockchain when the non-blockchain solutions already available are better. 

[Tayaout]

 

[digibum]

11 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

Yes and what a better place than thaivisa full of retired baby boomers completely hermetic to any kind of new technology to do that isnt it ? What do you think ?

 

There are many others crypto and most of them are scams, that's why i only talk about bitcoin that is now well established and praised by many trustworthy people. Do you believe CNBC would keep mentioning bitcoin so often if it was just a ponzi ?

 

Most people, those around here included, will likely FOMO in the next time the media are vocal about it when it is litterally the worst time to buy and without doing any research. 

Here now people have the time to discuss, verify the facts and start to build a sound opinion on the matter without any pressure and many different opinions on the matter.

 

I really don't think you understand how untrustworthy you sound when trying to sound trustworthy. 

 

Anybody that knows anything knows, CNBC mentioning something doesn't mean that all of those mentions are positive.  And mentioning mysterious "trustworthy" people is also another way of trying to sound legitimate but without actually naming names so people can judge for themselves if they find those people trustworthy. 

 

There's even a name for this, it's called an argument from authority.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

The only way that is a valid argument is if we all agree that these trustworthy people are in fact trustworthy.  But since you won't name them, we can't agree and we have to take your word, which makes it a false argument. 

 

[freeman01]

7 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

I really don't think you understand how untrustworthy you sound when trying to sound trustworthy. 

 

Anybody that knows anything knows, CNBC mentioning something doesn't mean that all of those mentions are positive.  And mentioning mysterious "trustworthy" people is also another way of trying to sound legitimate but without actually naming names so people can judge for themselves if they find those people trustworthy. 

 

There's even a name for this, it's called an argument from authority.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

 

The only way that is a valid argument is if we all agree that these trustworthy people are in fact trustworthy.  But since you won't name them, we can't agree and we have to take your word, which makes it a false argument. 

 

Or maybe yoy are missing the point ?

The point of mentioning cnbc is its a freaking regulated large media known by everyone and that would get in deep trouble if they talked about a scam ? Maybe ? I am being accused of promoting a scam remember ?

Edited February 24, 2020 by freeman01

[digibum]

22 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

Or maybe yoy are missing the point ?

The point of mentioning cnbc is its a freaking regulated large media known by everyone and that would get in deep trouble if they talked about a scam ? Maybe ? I am being accused of promoting a scam remember ?

 

I don't think you're going to like the direction of this: 

 

Bitcoin is the ‘mother of all scams’ and blockchain is most hyped tech ever, Roubini tells Congress

Majority of bitcoin trading is a hoax, new study finds

Billionaire Richard Branson: Scammers are pretending to be me to steal your money

The Wolf of Wall Street says Bitcoin is a scam… and he should know

Billionaire Investor Howard Marks Says Bitcoin Is A 'Pyramid Scheme'

 

These are all stories that appeared on CNBC.  So, should I believe them as a reputable source or not? 

 

Or maybe you simply forgot the CNBC Bitsane debacle?  Here is the story they ran. 

 

How to buy XRP, one of the hottest bitcoin competitors

 

Quote

Only some of Rpple’s recommended exchanges include support for buying XRP with the U.S. dollar, which would be the easiest way. Unfortunately, after trying several and running into technical issues or login problems, I settled on an exchange called Bitsane.

 

Too bad Bitsane stole a bunch of people's money. 

 

https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/06/28/cnbc-shilled-cryptocurrency-exchange-bitsane-pulls-exit-scam-on-246k-users/

 

https://www.techjuice.pk/the-cnbc-endorsed-crypto-exchange-pulls-exit-scam-on-its-over-200000-users/

 

https://cointelegraph.com/news/exit-scam-dublin-based-exchange-bitsane-vanishes-with-users-funds

 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5159747.0

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hanktucker/2019/06/27/crypto-exchange-and-xrp-refuge-bitsane-vanishes-scamming-as-many-as-246000-users/#134b112e77fa

 

So, to answer your question, would CNBC promote a scam?  Apparently the answer is a resounding, Yes! 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by digibum
Additional Info

[freeman01]

Lets mention a few names that are all in on the big scam and ponzi that is bitcoin.

 

Bakkt what is that ? How a bitcoin exchange build by the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), owner of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). https://decrypt.co/resources/bakkt

Whoaw all those big head from wall street, all regulated by NYDFS, woah soooo scamy stay away peeps.

 

Oh what is that CME offering bitcoin future contract ? SCAAAAAM 

https://www.cmegroup.com/education/bitcoin/cme-bitcoin-futures-frequently-asked-questions.html

[sanemax]

No one knows who owns Bitcoins

Would it be possible to have a group of bitcoin holders manipulating the price and making huge profits ? 

  For example, they all begin buying when the price is low ($7K), this pushes the price up as other people see the price rise and try to buy in , the price quickly goes up to ($20K) and the gang all bail out, selling at $20K .

  This then cause the bitcoin price to fall back to $7K..........and the gang begin buying again .

 Would that be possible , and that would explain the rapid price fluctuations 

[freeman01]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

No one knows who owns Bitcoins

Would it be possible to have a group of bitcoin holders manipulating the price and making huge profits ? 

  For example, they all begin buying when the price is low ($7K), this pushes the price up as other people see the price rise and try to buy in , the price quickly goes up to ($20K) and the gang all bail out, selling at $20K .

  This then cause the bitcoin price to fall back to $7K..........and the gang begin buying again .

 Would that be possible , and that would explain the rapid price fluctuations 

Its way too big for that kind of manipulation to happens now, you can't just move a 50 billions of daily volumes so easily.

[digibum]

1 minute ago, freeman01 said:

Its way too big for that kind of manipulation to happens now, you can't just move a 50 billions of daily volumes so easily.

 

Here's an article from a very reputable source, CNBC, that says that the majority of Bitcoin trading is a hoax.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/22/majority-of-bitcoin-trading-is-a-hoax-new-study-finds.html

 

 

[digibum]

6 minutes ago, freeman01 said:

Lets mention a few names that are all in on the big scam and ponzi that is bitcoin.

 

Bakkt what is that ? How a bitcoin exchange build by the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE), owner of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). https://decrypt.co/resources/bakkt

Whoaw all those big head from wall street, all regulated by NYDFS, woah soooo scamy stay away peeps.

 

Oh what is that CME offering bitcoin future contract ? SCAAAAAM 

https://www.cmegroup.com/education/bitcoin/cme-bitcoin-futures-frequently-asked-questions.html

 

Both the NYSE and CME simply provide the mechanism to trade.  They make money off of trading.  They don't care what's being traded.  Also it seems ironic that you're touting the decentralization of Bitcoin in one post and then cite as a trustworthy source, firms that want to centralize the trading of Bitcoin.