Israeli fire kills Palestinian trying to plant bomb at Gaza border - Israeli military

[jspill]

On 2/28/2020 at 7:25 PM, Orton Rd said:

NOT genocide that was what the Jews suffered in Germany, not a few hundred terrorists killed over the years. These idiots could have had their Palestine in the 30's with the Jew restricted to just 20% of the area- they said NO. They said NO in 1948 and twice since. The Palestinians are not and never have been interested in a 2 state solution, they just want their own with no Israel, well tough it's not going to happen but they never seem to learn.

 

Militant zionists (terrorists) killed hundreds of British soldiers because they said no to the way the Brits wanted to set up Israel in the 40s (in a way that was fair to the Arabs). Like blowing up the British HQ (1946), and hanging up dead bodies of soldiers with booby traps to further injure the soldiers to went to cut them down (the Sergeant's affair, 1947) or blowing up a boat of people the Brits were deporting because they didn't have entry permits (1940 SS Patria sinking). They aren't interested in a 2 state solution either, Netanyahu recently declared Israel is 'the nation state of the Jewish people alone'. They expand and annex new land year on year.

 

I can't for the life of me understand why people who complain about Muslim terrorists would then support this other Middle Eastern nation with its history of terrorism

Edited March 2, 2020 by jspill

[JustAnotherHun]

On 2/24/2020 at 7:13 AM, rhyddid said:

Shame on anyone who keep supporting this cold blood genocide !

Very strange "genocide" while Gaza has the world highest birth rate.

Well done IDF!

Edited March 2, 2020 by JustAnotherHun

[jspill]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:37 PM, JustAnotherHun said:

Very strange "genocide" while Gaza has the world highest birth rate.

Well done IDF!

It has been in decline. Yes it's still higher than the developed world but that's not saying much.

 

'The total fertility rate declined during (2011-2013) to 4.1 births (compared to 5.9 births in 1999).' https://imemc.org/article/report-over-13-million-palestinians-worldwide-by-2020/

 

Used to be closer to 8 

 

 

People are accustomed to thinking genocides need to be in the millions of deaths, well there were only 1.2 million non Jews in Palestine before the Nakba by the 1946 census - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

 

Then 150 thousand in 1948, about a million were kicked out or shot if they resisted, and some died being kicked out from heat stroke etc. basically a death march into the desert carrying their stuff. It took about 50 years for the non Jewish population to get back to where it was

Edited March 4, 2020 by jspill

[JustAnotherHun]

16 minutes ago, jspill said:

yes the population is now higher but that's like saying Jews weren't genocided because there's more of them around today

The genocide of the european jews ended in 1945. According to some here the "genocide" on Palestiniens is going on, though - amazingly - the population is growing fast. See the difference?

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by JustAnotherHun

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jspill said:

It has been in decline. Yes it's still higher than the developed world but that's not saying much.

 

'The total fertility rate declined during (2011-2013) to 4.1 births (compared to 5.9 births in 1999).' https://imemc.org/article/report-over-13-million-palestinians-worldwide-by-2020/

 

Used to be closer to 8 

 

 

People are accustomed to thinking genocides need to be in the millions of deaths, well there were only 1.2 million non Jews in Palestine before the Nakba by the 1946 census - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

 

Then 150 thousand in 1948, about a million were kicked out or shot if they resisted, and some died being kicked out from heat stroke etc. basically a death march into the desert carrying their stuff. It took about 50 years for the non Jewish population to get back to where it was

Funny you failed to mention the nakba of Jews from North Africa and the Middle East.

 

That might hurt the one sided Israel demonization narrative. 

 

We can't have that!

[jspill]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

The genocide of the european jews ended in 1945. According to some here the "genocide" on Palestiniens is going on, though - amazingly - the population is growing fast. See the difference?

It would be like European Jews still being under Nazi occupation 75 years later, and their population finally getting back to what it was in 1995, and now in 2020 a bit higher, but not growing 'fast' compared to their birth rates of the past. Only fast compared to the West today, not compared to their past or the West of the past. By their standards it's slow and as the graph shows their birth rates are dropping. 

 

In that hypothetical scenario people would call it an ongoing genocide

 

 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherHun said:

See the difference?

Not to folks who are still imbued with classical anti-semitism so characteristic of Europeans.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, jspill said:

It would be like European Jews still being under Nazi occupation 75 years later, and their population finally getting back to what it was in 1995, and now in 2020 a bit higher, but not growing 'fast' compared to their birth rates of the past. Only fast compared to the West today, not compared to their past or the West of the past. By their standards it's slow and as the graph shows their birth rates are dropping. 

 

In that hypothetical scenario people would call it an ongoing genocide

 

 

It wasn't occupation. It was liquidation. 

These lame attempts to conflate the holocaust with Israeli government policies are antisemitic by definition. 

[jspill]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Funny you failed to mention the nakba of Jews from North Africa and the Middle East.

 

That might hurt the one sided Israel demonization narrative. 

 

We can't have that!

The 'Jewish nakba' refers to Jews going to Israel to live in their newly colonized home, whereas the Palestinians were being kicked out of theirs becoming refugees, not really comparable is it. Some were flown over or flew themselves, on average they were much richer and in much less danger. Compared to being forced on a death march through the desert carrying your stuff. There was some violence against them but it was after the creation of Israel, 1948 war and Nakba of Palestinians, so obviously there will be a lot of people angry about that in other Arab countries. Many Jewish historians themselves completely reject this comparison and notion of a Jewish nakba. 

 

'Israeli historian Yehoshua Porath has rejected the comparison, arguing that while there is a superficial similarity, the ideological and historical significance of the two population movements are entirely different. Porath points out that the immigration of Jews from Arab countries to Israel, expelled or not, was the "fulfilment of a national dream".'

 

'Yehuda Shenhav has criticized the analogy between Jewish emigration from Arab countries and the Palestinian exodus. He also says "The unfounded, immoral analogy between Palestinian refugees and Mizrahi immigrants needlessly embroils members of these two groups in a dispute, degrades the dignity of many Mizrahi Jews, and harms prospects for genuine Jewish-Arab reconciliation."'

 

'Iraqi Jews aren't refugees, saying "nobody expelled us from Iraq' - Iraqi-born Israeli historian Avi Shlaim

 

''They were not all poor, or 'dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits'. Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."'

 

Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations." And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#Criticism_of_Jewish_Naqba_narrative_in_Israel

[jspill]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It wasn't occupation. It was liquidation. 

These lame attempts to conflate the holocaust with Israeli government policies are antisemitic by definition. 

By the definition of the ADL, a very dubious organisation, not by the definition of many Jews who have said exactly the same things I have in this thread, Norman Finklestein, Gilad Atzmon, etc., are not afraid to point out similarities between zionism and Nazism, both are militantly ethnonationalist ideologies. Pulling the 'antisemitic' card is a copout meant to scare people off but it's just resulting in support for Israel dropping year on year on the left and right, so keep it up. Special points for Nyezhov for implying all European people are inherently antisemitic, same thing Bari Weiss said on the Joe Rogan show.