Why do Thais only understand words pronounced and intoned perfectly?

[Happy Grumpy]

10 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

I ended up having to search for my account number.

You contact a service provider, without having thought of getting your account number first??

 

 

Wow. 

[ColeBOzbourne]

Recently my Thai friend kept commenting on someone walking ahead of us with 'afro'. I saw nobody with poofy hair and couldn't understand at all. After a while I figured out she was commenting on somebody's shoes that had 'air flow'.

 

Regarding the need to pronounce tone perfectly to be understood, I've also thought that little children learning to speak probably don't get the pronunciation or tone correct but are often understood. Sometimes only a parent can understand their own small child as they are familiar with them. But toddlers, the elderly, and people with speech impediments are often understood by Thais because they anticipate the pronunciation will not be perfect. Why can't they have the same frame of mind with foreigners?

[Captain Monday]

57 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

You contact a service provider, without having thought of getting your account number first??

 

 

Wow. 

I called and sasked "This is Captain Monday from Millionaire Heights Condo in Chiang Mai" can I have help with my account? The girl immediately asked "What district of Chiang Mai are you in" not for my account number. How am I supposed to know what my account number is anyway they don't mail statements anymore all I get are the chits left by the meter reader every month, all in Thai, plus the auto-debit from Bangkok bank. I figured the account number out somehow despite my personal failings. This forum would be more useful If posters who have nothing positive to contribute to the topic would simply refrain from commenting instead of the thinly-veiled personal attacks disguised as sneering witticisms.

[Captain Monday]

3 hours ago, kenk24 said:

mueang is a bit difficult to pronounce as it has a sound that westerners don't easily make and is not used in English... try frowning a large clown frown when you say it and hold that frown... 

 

you just don't realize how far off your pronunciation is... walk in a bar and ask for a booo-ee-ee- arrr...

Thanks for that pronunciation advice. If I can ever get a tuk-tuk driver to take me to Moonmuang road in Chiangmai I will claim a small personal victory.

[canuckamuck]

2 hours ago, TSF said:

I've lived in Thailand for a very long time, and speak the language well, not fantastic, but my conversational Thai is at a pretty high level. I can also read reasonably well. Anywhere I go alone, be it a restaurant, a bar, a shop, an office, and I speak Thai with the staff I end up having nice friendly chats with the people and they'll all say things like..."Khun poot Thai geng", "Poot Thai chat mark". All this is when I am alone.

 

However, when my Thai wife is with me suddenly nobody has a clue what I'm saying. I'll ask for a small beer and they spin around to my Thai wife with a puzzled look on their faces, and then my wife has to act as the translator.

It is amusing that when I am with other Thais, and I order some food, the server immediately scans the table to figure out which one of them is my handler so she can confirm I just said what I said. My wife will sometimes say, don't talk to me, talk to him.

But when I am alone, the ordering is no problem.

 

As for the OP, The word Muang is on the list of words which don't seem to work for me. I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but whenever I use it I get blank looks.

[Happy Grumpy]

46 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I called and sasked "This is Captain Monday from Millionaire Heights Condo in Chiang Mai" can I have help with my account?

 

47 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

How am I supposed to know what my account number is

????

 

Some people, you have to wonder if they have live-in helpers, or took their mother along with them. ????

[Happy Grumpy]

Hello, this is Mister xxxx xxxxx, my account number is  xxxxxxxx.

 

Or 

 

Hello, this is Mister xxxx xxxx, I just ate a sandwich. 

 

 

 

Guess which one is better. ????

[Dumbastheycome]

I have a very limited vocabulary in ( local) Thai. When I use it  most Thai  do understand me and my  wife insists my pronunciation is very good. But there are some words that even after years of attempting I am informed I am somehow  not getting it  correct. In general I have learned to avoid any complex attempts  in conversation and  even when  asked  ,in Thai, do I speak Thai?,I will usually answer  "nid nid" to avoid the rapid  barrage that is typical of Northern Thai speech. I do take some comfort from the  fact that my wife struggles to understand people speaking southern Thai.

 

 

 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, Tayaout said:

He did not seem to care that I try my best to learn his language.

Why should he? Actually he's probably sick of trying to understand idiots butchering his language. He knows the basics of his trade in English, prefers that. At least he gave you his honest opinion instead of sucking up trying to increase his tip.

 

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

A1; Because their average IQ is 90, which means at least half the Thais you meet have IQs lower than that.

A2: Because Central Thai isn't their first language.

Didn't take long to change the topic to bashing Thais and making fun of their English pronunciations. Posts about our todgers and our best BJs are only a few posts away.

 

5 hours ago, Ventenio said:

SOME people won't like you, and make you feel stupid.  Some people really want to understand you, and they make an effort.  It's funny when even saying KoorooNa or Corona will have people completely confused even if you point to their mask and ask, in thai, if they are infected (only do this with a friend).  

We've reached an explanation of why people don't like you and make you feel stupid: it's to help you face the reality that you act stupid.

 

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Having a telephone conversation with any foreign national, Thai or otherwise, is very difficult.

Great point. Thai friend and I find it SO much easier to understand each other in person. Hard to hear clearly over the phone, need lots of repetition.

 

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

The problem often lies in the expectations of the other person, and not so much in the pronounciation itself.

Not in this case. Call center lady was expecting Thai pronunciation but got pronounciation.

[BigStar]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

I mean I could go into a bar in the US and ask for a "Biya" like an Aussie, two freaking syllables, when "American" for Beer is one syllable and sure I won't have a problem.  

You keep coming back to that false analogy, implying you lack comprehension or refuse to accept the explanation that was given to you in English. No wonder Thai is difficult for you. As another poster said, you need something like "BoooYAH" so that it's incomprehensible.

[giddyup]

When I first arrived in Pattaya I saw a guy wearing a T Shirt with a picture of a dead cow with the words My Cow Die underneath. I asked the Thai lady I was with did that mean something in Thai, she had no idea. Turns out it was a play on words, Mai Kow Jai, meaning. "I don't understand", she couldn't grasp the connection.

[rech]

Have you seen how their brains work slowly ?

Not all, but most Thai are not able to try to understand us when we do not speak perfectly, but some a bit smarter and faster than others can.

 

 

[rech]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

Answer is more simpler than you think . To understand requires someone listening and considering that for most the time no one ever listens , it becomes even bigger issue to pay attention and perhaps think for a second . 
 

this is not limited to foreigners speaking to Thai , but also applies Thai to thai . My manager tells staff to go right , but they go left. She tells go room 403, they go 304. Tell taxi opposite Soi 00, they drive inside Soi .

 

keeping in mind sometime foreigner speaking Thai , accent is so heavy that it’s almost impossible to understand, Just like some Thai speaking English , sometimes can not understand 

 

 

 

Clearly one of the few smart replies.

 

 

[BigStar]

8 minutes ago, rech said:

Have you seen how their brains work slowly ?

No. Who's "they?"

 

Quote

Not all, but most Thai are not able to try to understand us when we do not speak perfectly, but some a bit smarter and faster than others can.

May not be worth trying, may think farang is making some irrelevant, inconsequential point or merely trying as usual to exert control over the "inferior" with a slower brain than his. Japanese do exactly the same thing, yet nobody thinks Japanese "brains work slowly." Seen the same thing w/ farang sometimes when Thais try to speak English. Also seen groups of farang quickly ignore a Thai or not take the Thai seriously and just joke among themselves.

 

[BritManToo]

39 minutes ago, BigStar said:

"BoooYAH" so that it's incomprehensible.

I thought that was what you said when you snorted crystal meth.

[cmarshall]

It's always enjoyable to hear what the monolinguals' latest theories of language performance are.

[1FinickyOne]

5 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Thanks for that pronunciation advice. If I can ever get a tuk-tuk driver to take me to Moonmuang road in Chiangmai I will claim a small personal victory.

maybe just ask for Pratu Thapae and walk a little bit... and songthaews will be better... 

[Captain Monday]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

maybe just ask for Pratu Thapae and walk a little bit... and songthaews will be better... 

Thats is what I am forced to , linguistic circumlocution.

 

Cant be understood to ask for Moonmuang Soi 5 so settle for "Kafe 1985".

Then the driver might be helpful and remind me "Pit ni wan paruhat!" 

I may redouble an effort to study Thai after I retire, but only for reading and listening comprehension not speaking.

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

Thats is what I am forced to , linguistic circumlocution.

 

Cant be understood to ask for Moonmuang Soi 5 so settle for "Kafe 1985".

Then the driver might be helpful and remind me "Pit ni wan paruhat!" 

I may redouble an effort to study Thai after I retire, but only for reading and listening comprehension not speaking.

 

 

 

speak.. that is the best way to learn... and circumvent whenever you can... I said 'not difficult' for years because I could not easily pronounce 'easy' 

[fishtank]

I gave up long ago trying to speak Thai.

Unless it is perfect they make no effort at all to try and understand you.

 

In a previous life I was a taxi driver and could usually have a rough idea what non English speakers were trying to say.

 

Thais make no effort whatsoever.

[DavidHouston]

15 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

God I love Dairy Queen. Especially how the gals gratuitously invert the ice cream cone to prove its thickness.

...and, in doing that I learned a new Thai word from them, "อับ-ไส-เดาน์"

[EricTh]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

A1; Because their average IQ is 90, which means at least half the Thais you meet have IQs lower than that.

A2: Because Central Thai isn't their first language.

The truth is most westerners can't pronounce Thai sounds, tones and their grammar.

 

I've heard tons of Thai learners who are westerners and Japanese; they sounded horrible even after learning for so many years.

 

The only difference are the Chinese students who can pronounce Thai tones and sounds much better.

 

It's not a question of the Thai's IQ level ....it's the inability of most westerners to learn the language especially the elderly.

[ChakaKhan]

16 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

God I love Dairy Queen. Especially how the gals gratuitously invert the ice cream cone to prove its thickness.

Id like to invert one of those DQ Cuties!!!   555   and add sprinkles!!

[BobinBKK]

I worked internationally for 20 years and I'm very good at deciphering broken English by non-native speakers all over the world. if I don't feel like dealing with someone I just tell them I don't understand, so yeah, I get it...

[tropo]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:14 PM, Dominion said:

If you want people to respond to you correctly in English go to a English native speaking country. Simple.

There always has to be at least one smarta** on every thread making stupid comments. If you're an expat and have settled for awhile, it's never "simple" to get up and leave unless you live out of a suitcase.

 

The point of the OP was making is why Thai pronunciation has to be ridiculously precise in order for it to be understood... in contrast to English, that can be bastardized to the extreme and most English speakers can understand it in all it's hundreds of variations.

 

This has been the source of frustration for me too, and many other people who study Thai. I don't have a Thai speaker at home to practice with, so that makes it even more difficult to nail pronunciation. Obviously some words are easier than others. Try as I might, I cannot get staff in restaurants to understand my Thai version of "table salt". They just look at me with a blank stare and point to the soya sauce after I've given them visual cues of using a salt shaker.

 

It's not only the OP's problem, but the problem of Thai people too as having a language that is difficult to learn makes foreigners less inclined to study it and attempt to communicate with it. If you're a non-Thai SE Asian, they can be quite rude if you attempt to speak Thai and they don't understand you. A Filipino friend of my wife studied Thai at a language school, and when they were out together she always tried to speak Thai. They were often quite hostile to her and gave better service to my wife who attempted to communicate in English.

 

French seems to cause similar problems. The French don't seem to enjoy hearing their language defiled by foreigners who cannot pronounce it correctly. When I was in France the French people did not appreciate my efforts. This was in the mid-90's, so maybe it has changed, but a less friendly country I have not visited and I couldn't wait to leave, I gave up attempting to speak French... but I do think it is a beautiful sounding language.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

There always has to be at least one smarta** on every thread making stupid comments. If you're an expat and have settled for awhile, it's never "simple" to get up and leave unless you live out of a suitcase.

err... that poster isn't a smartass, at least not as far as "smart" is concerned.

[tgw]

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

The truth is most westerners can't pronounce Thai sounds, tones and their grammar.

 

I've heard tons of Thai learners who are westerners and Japanese; they sounded horrible even after learning for so many years.

 

The only difference are the Chinese students who can pronounce Thai tones and sounds much better.

 

It's not a question of the Thai's IQ level ....it's the inability of most westerners to learn the language especially the elderly.

yes and no...

ability to speak correctly is one thing, but inability to understand slightly mispronounced words is another.

I blame it on the schooling system that doesn't teach intellectual agility.

 

but... I have also witnessed many times where Thais didn't understand other Thais, although they were speaking the same language. they had to query back and forth to ascertain what the other wanted.

clearly not a perfect method of communication. when there are words with the same sounds but different tones meaning the opposite, then there is something wrong.

 

[Damrongsak]

On 2/25/2020 at 11:41 AM, jastheace said:

My response. Mueang(เมือง ).

yeah, you have to be careful not to say the vowel sound too short on that word....

Best to speak in full phrases ... "Goo u nai mueang". 

 

As for pronunciation vs. tones, that has some merit.  I remember being in Loei and hailing a samlor driver. I just said "go market?" in Thai.  But I said it with the tones about reversed, as though it was a question.  The samlor driver said I "spoke Loei".

 

Best I can say is I treat the language like a bit of a song.  If I start out on the right note, things seem to work out. 

[EricTh]

5 hours ago, tgw said:

yes and no...

ability to speak correctly is one thing, but inability to understand slightly mispronounced words is another.

I blame it on the schooling system that doesn't teach intellectual agility.

 

 

Really?

When you learn a new language, you should learn properly with the proper tones and pronunciation. Sadly most westerners ignore the tones and also mispronounce the words. On top of that, they use English grammar and not Thai grammar adding to the confusion.

 

The wrong tones or the wrong pronunciation changes the meaning of the word. For example, seu and seua are very close in sounds but with completely different meaning.

 

A lot of westerners also couldn't understand slightly mispronounced English word from Thai people. Watch video below for the proof. He has to guess so many times what she was trying to say.

 

 

[EricTh]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

 

It's not only the OP's problem, but the problem of Thai people too as having a language that is difficult to learn makes foreigners less inclined to study it and attempt to communicate with it. If you're a non-Thai SE Asian, they can be quite rude if you attempt to speak Thai and they don't understand you. A Filipino friend of my wife studied Thai at a language school, and when they were out together she always tried to speak Thai. They were often quite hostile to her and gave better service to my wife who attempted to communicate in English.

 

Tonal languages are especially difficult for non-tonal native speakers like Filipinos, Japanese and Europeans. But I am curious as to why that Thai person was hostile towards your friend.

 

I have heard some native Chinese speakers speaking almost perfect Thai because their languages are also tonal.