Protecting my right to live in our house should my wife die.

[Kinnock]

5 hours ago, saengd said:

Just one more thing that may be of use and that is my wife and I socialized her will with her family, we told them in advance what was going to happen in the event my wife passed away before me. We did that so there would be no surprises later, the SIL is designated Executrix.

.... this is either a good idea or a bad one depending on the family!

[SAINT THOMAS]

2 hours ago, samran said:

If you are working here and have got three years of work permits and tax returns, then apply for Thai citizenship based on marriage to a Thai citizen.

 

Then you can do what you want.

I have met many, many foreigners like myself over the years and never met one that was a Thai citizen.

[losworld]

24 minutes ago, SAINT THOMAS said:

I have met many, many foreigners like myself over the years and never met one that was a Thai citizen.

I believe they grant citizenship to some minuscule number each year just so they can say they do it.  It's really quite ridiculous.

[saengd]

6 hours ago, Kinnock said:

.... this is either a good idea or a bad one depending on the family!

Yes I agree. But it's most beneficial if the Thai wife can be the one to introduce the subject and tell them what she has done and why. My wife did that without me knowing and then told me later, subsequently the SIL asked me more details about her future role as executrix and what it entailed, I had to tell her to chill because it was highly unlikely she'd ever be needed to function in the role and that it was simply Plan B planning.

 

But I did go one step further and picked out a Thai law firm for her to use which is the same one my wife would use if I were to pass first, I've also had the discussion with that law firm about the cost of probate and that is recorded. The cost of probate legal fees and choice of solicitor is actually mentioned in both our wills as an option for the executor/executrix to consider, that way the preference is visible. The executor/executrix could always ignore those preferences and use somebody else but they would need to justify to the beneficiary any additional expense, if there was any.

 

So the process is: one party dies, the executor/executrix is appointed, the law firm commences probate whilst the executor/executrix overseas the process and manages costs, the remaining beneficiary has oversight.

[samran]

7 hours ago, SAINT THOMAS said:

I have met many, many foreigners like myself over the years and never met one that was a Thai citizen.

 

6 hours ago, losworld said:

I believe they grant citizenship to some minuscule number each year just so they can say they do it.  It's really quite ridiculous.

Unless you walked into special branch and enquired about Thai citizenship like I and quite a number of others I know, have done, then you don’t really know what you are talking about.

 

Nationality law here provides a path for legally and gainfully employed spouses of Thai wives to apply for citizenship. It currently talks about 3 years from application to grant under this government. 

Once granted, comes all the rights of a Thai citizen. 

 

[impulse]

6 hours ago, losworld said:

6 hours ago, SAINT THOMAS said:

I have met many, many foreigners like myself over the years and never met one that was a Thai citizen.

I believe they grant citizenship to some minuscule number each year just so they can say they do it.  It's really quite ridiculous.

 

I had a co-worker who went that route.  He had been working on Thai citizenship for years before I arrived, and still working on it 7 years later when I left.  He had been married long enough to have 2 grown Thai kids, and was a multi-millionaire who worked for many years in Thailand, owning and selling a few Thai companies along the way.  He had excellent legal representation, spoke fluent Thai, and played golf with quite a few high ranking government officials as a function of his job.  And still it took that long.

 

Go for it, sure.  But have a backup plan.

 

[bangkoken]

A Last Will & Testament clearly stating that you will continue to live in the property until your death or otherwise abandoned the house.

It is a "Life Estate". Very common in LW&T and can withstand the scrutiny of the court and is enforceable in a court of law. Your welcome.

[justin case]

where I live, many 10-25+ million baht houses are for sale / rent for YEARS now...

[VocalNeal]

9 hours ago, SAINT THOMAS said:

I have met many, many foreigners like myself over the years and never met one that was a Thai citizen.

I know at least 3.

 

Donations to a police charity seems to be on the list of things to do. Or become a police volunteer. I.e. Do something for Thailand.

[Deerculler]

When my Thai wife died just over 4 years ago from cancer, she put a clause in her Will that I could live in the house until died.

That was all done legally.

 

[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, Deerculler said:

When my Thai wife died just over 4 years ago from cancer, she put a clause in her Will that I could live in the house until died.

That was all done legally.

 

 

Did you use a lawyer? Could you PM contact details please?

 

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[JimGant]

47 minutes ago, Deerculler said:

When my Thai wife died just over 4 years ago from cancer, she put a clause in her Will that I could live in the house until died.

That was all done legally.

 

Who did she leave the house to in her Will? Even if it was you, the end result will be the same -- a Thai will have to own it. And unless there's a lease or usufruct on the house, there's nothing legally binding the new owner to allow you to live there. The only way to write a Will with strings attached is to use the "trust" mechanism; and, unfortunately, Thai law does not allow for trusts.

[Mods: yes, you've told me I can't post anything about usufructs or leases, because the OP has a mortgage on his property and leases and usufructs can't apply. However, this post addresses a different but related situation -- one that is pertinent to the OP.]

[Crossy]

Is it possible to stipulate that a lease / usufruct be made with the beneficiary of the house as part of the conditions in the will?

 

I'm definitely going to engage the services of a good lawyer, all I have to do is find one.

 

Lots of good stuff here. It was only my lady coming within (literally) hours of leaving us that spurred me into action, hopefully it's also making others think too.

 

[Titan1962]

After purchasing our home,we went to a lawyer and had a legal document made up concerning a few things like that.

If my partner was to die I could sell the house and get 50 % of the sale the other 50 % would go to her mom and dad. That’s fine by me as my partner and her family have been wonderful to me. Plus if she died there would only be her brother left to help support mom and dad. I would not really want to live in this house anyway,I would rather move on to something more suitable. We also made arrangements that if I die she can legally sell my car and bike,plus get access to my bank account. The reason we did this,her Aunty was in a relationship with a Falang for years,he died and no will was made. She couldn’t get access to anything. God knows what happened to the money he had in his bank account. If they have treated you well,put something in place to make life easier for them too. PS the other thing,maybe you could do a 30 yr lease on the home as I am sure it is her name. That way you are covered if your wife dies and you don’t want to sell.

[rosst]

19 hours ago, Crossy said:

And this is why we have a forum, the will route hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibly of crossing my mind.

 

I have one, so why shouldn't Madam? Duh!

After sale look at renting from then on, cost effective and flexible. 

Plenty of Baht in the bank, no problem. 

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I know at least 3.

 

Donations to a police charity seems to be on the list of things to do. Or become a police volunteer. I.e. Do something for Thailand.

Donations to any recognized charity. I made mine to the a charity for orphans. But off topic. 

 

Glad to hear your wife is okay. When I bought a house, my Thai wife and I decided to put it in our son's name as he would ultimately inherit it anyway. She has since died and I moved out and bought a new house with my new wife. The new house is in joint ownership as I gained Thai citizenship subsequent to buying the first place. 

 

The thread does make a good point that I should have a will in place, although I am not expecting to pop off for quite a few years yet.  

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Is it possible to stipulate that a lease / usufruct be made with the beneficiary of the house as part of the conditions in the will?

For sure, no in the US -- Thailand, probably not. Take this case: 'I leave all my money to my son, Jerk, with the proviso that he only spend $10,000 per year.' Unenforceable. So, you leave the money in trust for your son, with a trustee carrying out your request. No can do in Thailand.

 

Your wife's Will can just leave the house and land to you. You and your wife can discuss who will finally get the property, say, Dang the nephew -- but don't put him in the wife's Will. Instead, discuss with him this plan: Upon the wife's death, you plan to go to the land office with him to re-title the chanote in his name, followed immediately with annotating a lease, or usufruct to the back of the chanote in your name. Result: A Thai, as required, takes possession of the property -- and that Thai is the person your wife wanted to eventually inherit the land. But, by not putting Dang in her Will, if somehow things head south with Dang before you hit the land office, well, just find a better nephew, as Dang has no recourse to the land. And if things head south after Dang takes possession, well, you can still live on the land without fear of eviction, by Dang are any subsequent owner.

 

Of course, this would be a no rent deal. You could also make it a no cost deal to Dang by paying the annual taxes, etc -- but he should be happy just knowing the land will be his free and clear upon your death -- as the lease dies with you.

 

Worst case: Dang, upon taking possession of the chanote, runs out the door of the land office laughing hysterically. ????

[Delight]

  I see limitations with a will to take care of everything.

Why-

So the wife signs a will leaving all to you  the foreigner. That is done in January.

In February (unknown to you) she does a new will. This latest will has no reference to the foreigner as  a beneficiary.

Last will counts. Earlier wills  are void.

This approach makes total sense to a Thai.

Family first!

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Delight
added detail

[sawadee1947]

22 hours ago, thainet said:

That is correct. A WILL naming you as the beneficiary is legal, but as a foreigner you cannot legally own it, therefore at this time the court will give you a reasonable time (one year at this time, unless anyone has any updated info) to sell the property and legally transfer it to the new owner (or family member or child).

 

Another way is to transfer the property into a company while she is still alive. Depending on how the company is structured with preference/non preference shares, you can have control of the company. If that interests you (or anyone else) then I recommend you contact a proper legal firm that can set this up for you.

 

It will not work (as it was possible in those good old times) because you have to do business with your company. 

To rent out your own sole property is illegal and will Therefore not be excepted. 

Of course you will find a lawyer who will tell you the opposite meaning grabbing your money. 

[melvinmelvin]

22 hours ago, Crossy said:

And this is why we have a forum, the will route hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibly of crossing my mind.

 

I have one, so why shouldn't Madam? Duh!

a will would be wise, will normally sort you for the first year

 

what some people do when they acquire house/land is along the following line;

 

have you being the sole owner of the house/construction as such

you lease the ground/property for X years, you can get 30 years lease registered with land dept.

 

maybe after 30 years you will be other places than among us

 

---

if doing smth along the lines above, it would of course be natural that you had a will

specifying that the lot goes to the wife in case you take off first

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by melvinmelvin
addon

[Chazar]

15 hours ago, SAINT THOMAS said:

I have 3 land deeds 1 in Surin and 2 in the village were our house is, my wife has no Thai children from a previous marriage to an American, 2 sons born in america or it would go to the children.

 

I have a policy at the government office for 200,000 baht think it is in case she died ahead of me in my name. 

 

I had such problems with my wife family over the years Since 2002, when I went to do a 30 year lease with the Judge in Prasat he instead put me on the back of the Deed to the land and gave a yellow book on the property with the house on it, the other property which I bought last year is right behind the house which I just filled in with dirt, fenced off and planted all fruit trees on about 2 Rai. 

 

I don't know if I would even have to give or sell the land and house with my name on the back of the deed? I will worry about that when and if the time comes or if she died before me.

 

I have to much invested in the house and lands in the village to sell it and who would buy it or have the money to buy it anyway 9 - 10 Million Baht? except the Surin land which is located in an area of all apartment buildings that I have 2.2 million baht invested in all paid with cash, so I don't owe anything on any of the properties or house.

 

My wife is 5 years older then me so I will give it all to someone I trust and that is not many if any and do a 30 year lease at the very same time of transfer, it would also have to be someone I would want the properties and house to go to when I died, that is the most important thing to me, I will hold on to the land deeds so they don't borrow on them also.

 

Money and Thais is a very dangerous combination.

 

My buddy did a 30 year lease with his girlfriend who died in an accident a few years ago, he paid cash for the house and cash for a car, the daughter won't give him the car and doesn't want him in the house, so what would someone do then? 

benzene

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, CharlieH said:

As I understand it, she has to make a will, the property will go to you and you have 1 year to sell it or do whatever with it.

My recommendation would be to get it from the "horses mouth" and speak with a "Thanai" and get things in place sooner rather than later ????

 

Further, I have a farang buddy in a very similar situation.

 

After some legal advice his wife altered her will to indicate that until her husband sells the property (the 1 yr to sell factor) she declared that he has total right to live in the house and to indicate who else can / cannot also live in the house and also indicate that he has the right to do whatever he wants with the proceeds of selling the house without any obligation whatever to any other party.

 

All of this was because he has a wonderful caring and trusting relationship with his wife but his wife doesn't trust her siblings, and she had concerns they would try to muscle into taking over the house, try to demand they are entitled to a % etc., etc.

 

My own Thai son in a similar situation, he loves and trusts his wife but she's regularly intimidated by her scaly older brother and her scaly older sister, and son's wife is quite frightened of them. 

 

Son put a usufruct on the property indicating that I can live unhindered in the house until death and I can indicate who can / cannot also live in the house (apart from son's wife and daughters) and I can block the sale of the house and land until I die.

 

Also, his will bequeaths the house and land equally to his 3 daughters, along with a clause that they are responsible to provide a home and care for their mother.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by scorecard

[natway09]

Take a legal lease on the house from the land owner (presumably your wife) for 30 years at a 

peppercorn rent 

which is the longest possible (plus 30's are illegal).

 

[Crossy]

Just re-iterate from my OP.

 

There is a mortgage in place, so no lease or usufruct possible right now.

 

Unless someone knows otherwise, I assume the bank would be the ones to decide.

[maprao]

Glad your wife is better Crossy

 

If your wife  dies. You get the house and 1 rai of land with  1 year to dispose of it.

 

Then transfer the land to your farang noi child who has a Thai passport and citizenship.

 

He owns the house and or land . You stay until you pop your clogs.

Edited March 16, 2020 by maprao

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, Crossy said:

Is it possible to stipulate that a lease / usufruct be made with the beneficiary of the house as part of the conditions in the will?

A Usufruct conveys all its rights for life - the beneficiaries life not the owner's. Even if the property is sold - the Usufruct remains in place.

 

Edit:

Providing its properly registered.

Edited March 16, 2020 by KhaoYai

[pacovl46]

There’s always the option to sell the house now and buy a condo which can be fully owned by you. 

[Rimmer]

Post with an altered quote removed

[RubbaJohnny]

#

Edited April 5, 2020 by RubbaJohnny